averted vision when viewing in eyepiece

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Date: 30 Jul 2007 12:16:37
From: brucegooglegroups
Subject: averted vision when viewing in eyepiece

Suggestions for using averted vision when viewing through an telescope
eyepiece? Should I place a sky object in the side of the eyepiece- or
is the angle of my eyes the key to better viewing?
Thanks.
Bruce

Date: 31 Jul 2007 09:04:06
From: palsing
Subject: Re: averted vision when viewing in eyepiece

On Jul 30, 12:16 pm, brucegooglegroups <brucegooglegro...@hotmail.com >
wrote:
> Suggestions for using averted vision when viewing through an telescope
> eyepiece? Should I place a sky object in the side of the eyepiece- or
> is the angle of my eyes the key to better viewing?
> Thanks.
> Bruce

A very long time ago I read that averted vision works best when the
object being viewed is placed at either the 10-o'clock or 2-o'clock
position in the eyepiece while you look in the center of the eyepiece.
For some reason it is best to keep the object not only to one side but
also slightly above. After achieving this, move the object to the
center of the field of view. For most people, they will see a
difference betweeen the 10 and 2 positions, so choose the one that
works best for you.

I never questioned this advice and found it to be very helpful, and
this is what I always tell folks who are trying to learn the
technique, and just about everyone tells me this helped them a lot.

Give it a try.

\Paul A

Date: 31 Jul 2007 23:45:07
From: KLM
Subject: Re: averted vision when viewing in eyepiece

palsing wrote:

> On Jul 30, 12:16 pm, brucegooglegroups <brucegooglegro...@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
> > Suggestions for using averted vision when viewing through an telescope
> > eyepiece? Should I place a sky object in the side of the eyepiece- or
> > is the angle of my eyes the key to better viewing?
> > Thanks.
> > Bruce
>
> A very long time ago I read that averted vision works best when the
> object being viewed is placed at either the 10-o'clock or 2-o'clock
> position in the eyepiece while you look in the center of the eyepiece.
> For some reason it is best to keep the object not only to one side but
> also slightly above. After achieving this, move the object to the
> center of the field of view. For most people, they will see a
> difference betweeen the 10 and 2 positions, so choose the one that
> works best for you.
>
> I never questioned this advice and found it to be very helpful, and
> this is what I always tell folks who are trying to learn the
> technique, and just about everyone tells me this helped them a lot.
>
> Give it a try.
>
> \Paul A

Like driving seated in the passenger seat? Sorry - I could not resist!

Date: 31 Jul 2007 18:54:46
From: Chris L Peterson
Subject: Re: averted vision when viewing in eyepiece

On Tue, 31 Jul 2007 09:04:06 -0700, palsing <palsing@harris.com > wrote:

>A very long time ago I read that averted vision works best when the
>object being viewed is placed at either the 10-o'clock or 2-o'clock
>position in the eyepiece while you look in the center of the eyepiece.

I think that's a poor system. Your scope performs best on-axis, so the
object being viewed (or it's most important component) should be
centered. Then you move your eye so that its sweet spot (which on
average is 5-10° to the nasal side, but certainly varies from person to
person) lies on the scope's optical axis as well. It makes no sense to
have the center of your vision (which is essentially blind at night)
lined up with the best part of your scope's field!

_________________________________________________

Chris L Peterson
Cloudbait Observatory
http://www.cloudbait.com

Date: 31 Jul 2007 08:04:34
From: William Hamblen
Subject: Re: averted vision when viewing in eyepiece

Date: 30 Jul 2007 23:50:03
From: KLM
Subject: Re: averted vision when viewing in eyepiece

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brucegooglegroups wrote:

> Suggestions for using averted vision when viewing through an telescope
> eyepiece? Should I place a sky object in the side of the eyepiece- or
> is the angle of my eyes the key to better viewing?
> Thanks.
> Bruce

There is no "technique" involved if you have normal vision for our
species. In fact, the only technique is in understanding peripheral vision
is there, which everyone but amateur astronomers seemed
to understand already before this became a merit badge! Averted vision,
socalled, is simply an artifact of peripheral vision where detection of
motion in the peripheral field of view can be critical to survival.

...

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<!doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0 transitional//en" >
<html >

brucegooglegroups wrote:
<blockquote TYPE=CITE >Suggestions for using averted vision when viewing
through an telescope
 eyepiece? Should I place a sky object in the side of the eyepiece-
or
 is the angle of my eyes the key to better viewing?
 Thanks.
 Bruce</blockquote>
There is no "technique" involved if you have normal vision for our
 species. In fact, the only technique is in understanding peripheral
vision is there, which everyone but amateur astronomers seemed
 to understand already before this became a merit badge! Averted vision,
socalled, is simply an artifact of peripheral vision where detection
of motion in the peripheral field of view can be critical to survival.
...
 
 
 </html>

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Date: 31 Jul 2007 13:32:53
From: Chris L Peterson
Subject: Re: averted vision when viewing in eyepiece

On Mon, 30 Jul 2007 23:50:03 -0500, KLM <milk@mchsi.com > wrote:

>There is no "technique" involved if you have normal vision for our
>species. In fact, the only technique is in understanding peripheral vision
>is there, which everyone but amateur astronomers seemed
>to understand already before this became a merit badge! Averted vision,
>socalled, is simply an artifact of peripheral vision where detection of
>motion in the peripheral field of view can be critical to survival.

Averted vision as used in astronomy is unrelated to motion detection in
peripheral vision. We have very high resolution, color vision only in
the very center of our FOV. That's normally where we keep objects of
interest located (a reflexive process that takes some practice to
bypass). This central part of our eye is largely useless for observing
in dim light (strong evolutionary evidence that we haven't been
nocturnal for a very long time!) Averted vision transfers a dim object
onto the region of the retina where rods are denser. Studying an object
for detail when it isn't in the center of your field is not a natural,
instinctual ability. It takes some practice.

Because this region of the retina is adapted to motion sensing, we can
sometimes use it to our advantage in _detecting_ a dim object, by
jiggling the telescope for instance. But that isn't the primary use of
averted vision.

_________________________________________________

Chris L Peterson
Cloudbait Observatory
http://www.cloudbait.com

Date: 31 Jul 2007 23:32:53
From: KLM
Subject: Re: averted vision when viewing in eyepiece

Chris L Peterson wrote:

> On Mon, 30 Jul 2007 23:50:03 -0500, KLM <milk@mchsi.com> wrote:
>
> >There is no "technique" involved if you have normal vision for our
> >species. In fact, the only technique is in understanding peripheral vision
> >is there, which everyone but amateur astronomers seemed
> >to understand already before this became a merit badge! Averted vision,
> >socalled, is simply an artifact of peripheral vision where detection of
> >motion in the peripheral field of view can be critical to survival.
>
> Averted vision as used in astronomy is unrelated to motion detection in
> peripheral vision.

I wonder about Averted vision used in Tarot Reading?

> We have very high resolution, color vision only in
> the very center of our FOV. That's normally where we keep objects of
> interest located (a reflexive process that takes some practice to
> bypass). This central part of our eye is largely useless for observing
> in dim light (strong evolutionary evidence that we haven't been
> nocturnal for a very long time!)

Different neurons.

> Averted vision transfers

????? by trolley?

> a dim object
> onto the region of the retina where rods are denser.

afocal region composed of five distinct neurological zones .......
we covered this ground in 1980!

> Studying an object
> for detail

no detail possible afocally!

> when it isn't in the center of your field is not a natural,
> instinctual ability. It takes some practice.

Like playing high "C" with a split lip? Or typing on the keyboard
with eight fingers missing?

>
>
> Because this region of the retina is adapted to motion sensing, we can
> sometimes use it to our advantage in _detecting_ a dim object, by
> jiggling the telescope for instance. But that isn't the primary use of
> averted vision.
>

Good grief Chris. Submit this to an opthamology journal!

.....

>
> _________________________________________________
>
> Chris L Peterson
> Cloudbait Observatory
> http://www.cloudbait.com

Date: 01 Aug 2007 09:12:06
From: Dennis Woos
Subject: Re: averted vision when viewing in eyepiece

"KLM" <13B4@89.org > wrote in message news:46B00CF5.2F4300A6@89.org...
>
>
> Chris L Peterson wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 30 Jul 2007 23:50:03 -0500, KLM <milk@mchsi.com> wrote:
>>
>> >There is no "technique" involved if you have normal vision for our
>> >species. In fact, the only technique is in understanding peripheral
>> >vision
>> >is there, which everyone but amateur astronomers seemed
>> >to understand already before this became a merit badge! Averted vision,
>> >socalled, is simply an artifact of peripheral vision where detection of
>> >motion in the peripheral field of view can be critical to survival.
>>
>> Averted vision as used in astronomy is unrelated to motion detection in
>> peripheral vision.
>
> I wonder about Averted vision used in Tarot Reading?
>
>> We have very high resolution, color vision only in
>> the very center of our FOV. That's normally where we keep objects of
>> interest located (a reflexive process that takes some practice to
>> bypass). This central part of our eye is largely useless for observing
>> in dim light (strong evolutionary evidence that we haven't been
>> nocturnal for a very long time!)
>
> Different neurons.
>
>> Averted vision transfers
>
> ????? by trolley?
>
>> a dim object
>> onto the region of the retina where rods are denser.
>
> afocal region composed of five distinct neurological zones .......
> we covered this ground in 1980!
>
>> Studying an object
>> for detail
>
> no detail possible afocally!
>
>
>> when it isn't in the center of your field is not a natural,
>> instinctual ability. It takes some practice.
>
> Like playing high "C" with a split lip? Or typing on the keyboard
> with eight fingers missing?
>
>>
>>
>> Because this region of the retina is adapted to motion sensing, we can
>> sometimes use it to our advantage in _detecting_ a dim object, by
>> jiggling the telescope for instance. But that isn't the primary use of
>> averted vision.
>>
>
> Good grief Chris. Submit this to an opthamology journal!
>

Perhaps you could omit the sarcasm (as entertaining as it is) and plainly
state your position on the subject of averted vision? Thanks.

Dennis

Date: 02 Aug 2007 01:09:05
From: KLM
Subject: Re: averted vision when viewing in eyepiece

In addition we have been through this BS many times before here
on saa. Nothing neurological has changed since the last Holy
Averted Spasm here.

Dennis Woos wrote:

> "KLM" <13B4@89.org> wrote in message news:46B00CF5.2F4300A6@89.org...
> >
> >
> > Chris L Peterson wrote:
> >
> >> On Mon, 30 Jul 2007 23:50:03 -0500, KLM <milk@mchsi.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> >There is no "technique" involved if you have normal vision for our
> >> >species. In fact, the only technique is in understanding peripheral
> >> >vision
> >> >is there, which everyone but amateur astronomers seemed
> >> >to understand already before this became a merit badge! Averted vision,
> >> >socalled, is simply an artifact of peripheral vision where detection of
> >> >motion in the peripheral field of view can be critical to survival.
> >>
> >> Averted vision as used in astronomy is unrelated to motion detection in
> >> peripheral vision.
> >
> > I wonder about Averted vision used in Tarot Reading?
> >
> >> We have very high resolution, color vision only in
> >> the very center of our FOV. That's normally where we keep objects of
> >> interest located (a reflexive process that takes some practice to
> >> bypass). This central part of our eye is largely useless for observing
> >> in dim light (strong evolutionary evidence that we haven't been
> >> nocturnal for a very long time!)
> >
> > Different neurons.
> >
> >> Averted vision transfers
> >
> > ????? by trolley?
> >
> >> a dim object
> >> onto the region of the retina where rods are denser.
> >
> > afocal region composed of five distinct neurological zones .......
> > we covered this ground in 1980!
> >
> >> Studying an object
> >> for detail
> >
> > no detail possible afocally!
> >
> >
> >> when it isn't in the center of your field is not a natural,
> >> instinctual ability. It takes some practice.
> >
> > Like playing high "C" with a split lip? Or typing on the keyboard
> > with eight fingers missing?
> >
> >>
> >>
> >> Because this region of the retina is adapted to motion sensing, we can
> >> sometimes use it to our advantage in _detecting_ a dim object, by
> >> jiggling the telescope for instance. But that isn't the primary use of
> >> averted vision.
> >>
> >
> > Good grief Chris. Submit this to an opthamology journal!
> >
>
> Perhaps you could omit the sarcasm (as entertaining as it is) and plainly
> state your position on the subject of averted vision? Thanks.
>
> Dennis

Date: 02 Aug 2007 01:08:17
From: KLM
Subject: Re: averted vision when viewing in eyepiece

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Dennis Woos wrote:

> "KLM" <13B4@89.org> wrote in message news:46B00CF5.2F4300A6@89.org...
> >
> >
> > Chris L Peterson wrote:
> >
> >> On Mon, 30 Jul 2007 23:50:03 -0500, KLM <milk@mchsi.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> >There is no "technique" involved if you have normal vision for our
> >> >species. In fact, the only technique is in understanding peripheral
> >> >vision
> >> >is there, which everyone but amateur astronomers seemed
> >> >to understand already before this became a merit badge! Averted vision,
> >> >socalled, is simply an artifact of peripheral vision where detection of
> >> >motion in the peripheral field of view can be critical to survival.
> >>
> >> Averted vision as used in astronomy is unrelated to motion detection in
> >> peripheral vision.
> >
> > I wonder about Averted vision used in Tarot Reading?
> >
> >> We have very high resolution, color vision only in
> >> the very center of our FOV. That's normally where we keep objects of
> >> interest located (a reflexive process that takes some practice to
> >> bypass). This central part of our eye is largely useless for observing
> >> in dim light (strong evolutionary evidence that we haven't been
> >> nocturnal for a very long time!)
> >
> > Different neurons.
> >
> >> Averted vision transfers
> >
> > ????? by trolley?
> >
> >> a dim object
> >> onto the region of the retina where rods are denser.
> >
> > afocal region composed of five distinct neurological zones .......
> > we covered this ground in 1980!
> >
> >> Studying an object
> >> for detail
> >
> > no detail possible afocally!
> >
> >
> >> when it isn't in the center of your field is not a natural,
> >> instinctual ability. It takes some practice.
> >
> > Like playing high "C" with a split lip? Or typing on the keyboard
> > with eight fingers missing?
> >
> >>
> >>
> >> Because this region of the retina is adapted to motion sensing, we can
> >> sometimes use it to our advantage in _detecting_ a dim object, by
> >> jiggling the telescope for instance. But that isn't the primary use of
> >> averted vision.
> >>
> >
> > Good grief Chris. Submit this to an opthamology journal!
> >
>
> Perhaps you could omit the sarcasm (as entertaining as it is) and plainly
> state your position on the subject of averted vision? Thanks.
>
> Dennis

I think Averted Vision is vastly over rated and has become a
catch-all fadism promoted by amateur astronomer (types)
for the purpose of having one more pseudo technical morphism in their pseudo
intellectual arsenal ... to play with people with. That is
what I think.

These people sound like they are making a realty pitch for an
important new discovery - "that will add two whole magnitudes
to your visual ""apperception"". (Church of the Holy Averted)

There is nothing new in any of this. The claims are vastly over
rated. No more "training" is needed than learning how to tie a
8 hole shoe lace vs a 4! But, amateurs continue to research the
topic and issue advisories and publish new "techniques".

The only thing salient about socalled Averted Vision is the
Event Sociologquie which comes out of the mouths of the people
expousing it! The intelligent Man's UFO and an urban legend.

Do you seriously think research opthomologists would have
ignored this important topic and left it solely to amateur astronomers! ?

Thanks,
KLM

It is a natural phenominon

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<html >

Dennis Woos wrote:
<blockquote TYPE=CITE >"KLM" <13B4@89.org> wrote in message <a href="news:46B00CF5.2F4300A6@89.org">news:46B00CF5.2F4300A6@89.org</a>...
 >
 >
 > Chris L Peterson wrote:
 >
 >> On Mon, 30 Jul 2007 23:50:03 -0500, KLM <milk@mchsi.com> wrote:
 >>
 >> >There is no "technique" involved if you have normal vision for
our
 >> >species. In fact, the only technique is in understanding peripheral
 >> >vision
 >> >is there, which everyone but amateur astronomers seemed
 >> >to understand already before this became a merit badge! Averted
vision,
 >> >socalled, is simply an artifact of peripheral vision where detection
of
 >> >motion in the peripheral field of view can be critical to survival.
 >>
 >> Averted vision as used in astronomy is unrelated to motion detection
in
 >> peripheral vision.
 >
 > I wonder about Averted vision used in Tarot Reading?
 >
 >> We have very high resolution, color vision only in
 >> the very center of our FOV. That's normally where we keep objects
of
 >> interest located (a reflexive process that takes some practice to
 >> bypass). This central part of our eye is largely useless for observing
 >> in dim light (strong evolutionary evidence that we haven't been
 >> nocturnal for a very long time!)
 >
 > Different neurons.
 >
 >> Averted vision transfers
 >
 > ????? by trolley?
 >
 >> a dim object
 >> onto the region of the retina where rods are denser.
 >
 > afocal region composed of five distinct neurological zones .......
 > we covered this ground in 1980!
 >
 >> Studying an object
 >> for detail
 >
 > no detail possible afocally!
 >
 >
 >> when it isn't in the center of your field is not a natural,
 >> instinctual ability. It takes some practice.
 >
 > Like playing high "C" with a split lip? Or typing on the keyboard
 > with eight fingers missing?
 >
 >>
 >>
 >> Because this region of the retina is adapted to motion sensing,
we can
 >> sometimes use it to our advantage in _detecting_ a dim object, by
 >> jiggling the telescope for instance. But that isn't the primary
use of
 >> averted vision.
 >>
 >
 > Good grief Chris. Submit this to an opthamology journal!
 >
Perhaps you could omit the sarcasm (as entertaining as it is) and plainly
 state your position on the subject of averted vision? Thanks.
Dennis</blockquote>
I think Averted Vision is vastly over rated and has become a
 catch-all fadism promoted by amateur astronomer (types)
 for the purpose of having one more pseudo technical morphism in their
pseudo intellectual arsenal ... to play with people with. That is
 what I think.
These people sound like they are making a realty pitch for an
 important new discovery - "that will add two whole magnitudes
 to your visual ""apperception"". (Church of the Holy Averted)
There is nothing new in any of this. The claims are vastly over
 rated. No more "training" is needed than learning how to tie a
 8 hole shoe lace vs a 4! But, amateurs continue to research the
 topic and issue advisories and publish new "techniques".
The only thing salient about socalled Averted Vision is the
 Event Sociologquie which comes out of the mouths of the people
 expousing it! The intelligent Man's UFO and an urban legend.
Do you seriously think research opthomologists would have
 ignored this important topic and left it solely to amateur astronomers!
?
Thanks,
 KLM
 
 
 
 
It is a natural phenominon</html>

--------------86EB793E39C960562ED9BA82--

Date: 31 Jul 2007 03:47:18
From: David Knisely
Subject: Re: averted vision when viewing in eyepiece

KLM posted:

> There is no "technique" involved if you have normal vision for our
> species. In fact, the only technique is in understanding peripheral vision is there, which everyone but amateur astronomers seemed
> to understand already before this became a merit badge! Averted vision, socalled, is simply an artifact of peripheral vision where detection of motion in the peripheral field of view can be critical to survival.

Actually, there is a bit of a technique involved. One has to look
slightly away from a very faint object in order to see it best, and the
exact direction the produces the greatest effect varies slightly. Thus,
one has to experiment a little to determine which variation in direction
gives the greatest effect. This is not just peripheral vision, but uses
the fact that the most light sensitive cells on the retina are the rods.
The rods are more commonly found away from the fovea (the center of
our most acute vision). The cone cells responsible for our acute and
detailed color vision do not function well at low light levels, so often
to just see a faint deep-sky object, averted vision must be used. When
the eye is fully dark-adapted, with averted vision, one can gain as much
as two stellar magnitudes over direct vision. Clear skies to you.
--
David W. Knisely KA0CZC@navix.net
Prairie Astronomy Club: http://www.prairieastronomyclub.org
Hyde Memorial Observatory: http://www.hydeobservatory.info/

**********************************************
* Attend the 14th Annual NEBRASKA STAR PARTY *
* July 15th-20th, 2007, Merritt Reservoir *
* http://www.NebraskaStarParty.org *
**********************************************

Date: 31 Jul 2007 23:24:47
From: KLM
Subject: Re: averted vision when viewing in eyepiece

David Knisely wrote:

> KLM posted:
>
> > There is no "technique" involved if you have normal vision for our
> > species. In fact, the only technique is in understanding peripheral vision is there, which everyone but amateur astronomers seemed
> > to understand already before this became a merit badge! Averted vision, socalled, is simply an artifact of peripheral vision where detection of motion in the peripheral field of view can be critical to survival.
>
> Actually, there is a bit of a technique involved. One has to look
> slightly away from a very faint object in order to see it best, and the
> exact direction the produces the greatest effect varies slightly. Thus,
> one has to experiment a little to determine which variation in direction
> gives the greatest effect. This is not just peripheral vision, but uses
> the fact that the most light sensitive cells on the retina are the rods.
> The rods are more commonly found away from the fovea (the center of
> our most acute vision). The cone cells responsible for our acute and
> detailed color vision do not function well at low light levels, so often
> to just see a faint deep-sky object, averted vision must be used. When
> the eye is fully dark-adapted, with averted vision, one can gain as much
> as two stellar magnitudes over direct vision. Clear skies to you.
> --
>

Prove it. Submit your study for peer review to the UI Dept of
Opthamological Research - Neurology Div. (Director = The same kid who used to play drums in Noise Ordinance when he was at
City High)

Weve been through all of this before. Extraordinary claims require
much evidence.

Clear Day to you.

> David W. Knisely KA0CZC@navix.net
> Prairie Astronomy Club: http://www.prairieastronomyclub.org
> Hyde Memorial Observatory: http://www.hydeobservatory.info/
>
> **********************************************
> * Attend the 14th Annual NEBRASKA STAR PARTY *
> * July 15th-20th, 2007, Merritt Reservoir *
> * http://www.NebraskaStarParty.org *
> **********************************************

Date: 01 Aug 2007 01:00:43
From: David Knisely
Subject: Re: averted vision when viewing in eyepiece

KLM posted:

> David Knisely wrote:
>
>> > KLM posted:
>> >
>>> > > There is no "technique" involved if you have normal vision for our
>>> > > species. In fact, the only technique is in understanding peripheral vision is there, which everyone but amateur astronomers seemed
>>> > > to understand already before this became a merit badge! Averted vision, socalled, is simply an artifact of peripheral vision where detection of motion in the peripheral field of view can be critical to survival.
>> >
>> > Actually, there is a bit of a technique involved. One has to look
>> > slightly away from a very faint object in order to see it best, and the
>> > exact direction the produces the greatest effect varies slightly. Thus,
>> > one has to experiment a little to determine which variation in direction
>> > gives the greatest effect. This is not just peripheral vision, but uses
>> > the fact that the most light sensitive cells on the retina are the rods.
>> > The rods are more commonly found away from the fovea (the center of
>> > our most acute vision). The cone cells responsible for our acute and
>> > detailed color vision do not function well at low light levels, so often
>> > to just see a faint deep-sky object, averted vision must be used. When
>> > the eye is fully dark-adapted, with averted vision, one can gain as much
>> > as two stellar magnitudes over direct vision. Clear skies to you.
>> > --
>> >
>
> Prove it. Submit your study for peer review to the UI Dept of
> Opthamological Research - Neurology Div. (Director = The same kid who used to play drums in Noise Ordinance when he was at
> City High)
>
> Weve been through all of this before. Extraordinary claims require
> much evidence.
>

I don't have to prove anything (and what, exactly do you want proof
of?). The reason behind the use of averted vision is well established.
As I stated, it has to do with the greater sensitivity to light of the
rods and the facts that very few rods are present in the central portion
of the visual field. Peripheral vision is merely the use of vision away
from the fovea, and can refer to day or night use. Averted vision is
the *deliberate* technique of looking slightly away from a faint object
(the use of "near-peripheral" vision) to gain the advantage of the extra
light sensitivity of the rods. The most effective direction for averted
vision tends to be that which places the object on the nose-ward side of
the vision center, although you do get some notable gain in other
directions as well. Thus, for right-eyed observers it tends to be a bit
better to look to the right, and for left-eye observers it is better to
look to the left. Some people also have noted that it can be a bit
better to avert up instead of down, but reports vary as to how well this
work, so there may be some variation in the location of the "sweet spot"
of averted vision. Again, it is best to experiment observationally and
decide what works best for the observer. Clear skies to you.

--
David W. Knisely KA0CZC@navix.net
Prairie Astronomy Club: http://www.prairieastronomyclub.org
Hyde Memorial Observatory: http://www.hydeobservatory.info/

**********************************************
* Attend the 14th Annual NEBRASKA STAR PARTY *
* July 15th-20th, 2007, Merritt Reservoir *
* http://www.NebraskaStarParty.org *
**********************************************

Date: 30 Jul 2007 22:01:06
From: David Nakamoto
Subject: Re: averted vision when viewing in eyepiece

brucegooglegroups wrote:
> Suggestions for using averted vision when viewing through an telescope
> eyepiece? Should I place a sky object in the side of the eyepiece- or
> is the angle of my eyes the key to better viewing?
> Thanks.
> Bruce
>
The technique I like is to first determine where the "sweet spot" is by
taking a relatively bright deep sky object, centering it in any
eyepiece, and moving the eye to the right and to the left of it and
noting how far from the center of the field of view to the edge it takes
for the object to become noticeably brighter. You want to avoid moving
too far to the side; the closest distance that brightens the object will do.

Then when viewing the object, IF there is a star around the object you
want to view that is in approximately the position you determined above,
use it to "stare at". This way you're eye is less likely to wander
while you're using averted vision.

I like to keep the object centered to keep it in the area where the
optics, and here we're talking about all the optics from the objective
to the last lens in the eyepiece, are probably at their sharpest,
clearest, and most corrected.

--- Dave

Date: 30 Jul 2007 20:56:59
From: Esmail
Subject: Re: averted vision when viewing in eyepiece

brucegooglegroups wrote:
> Suggestions for using averted vision when viewing through an telescope
> eyepiece? Should I place a sky object in the side of the eyepiece- or
> is the angle of my eyes the key to better viewing?

One rather very successful technique I employ to view hard to see
objects is averted imagination! It has a 100% success rate.

:-)

Date: 31 Jul 2007 00:17:52
From: Davoud
Subject: Re: averted vision when viewing in eyepiece

brucegooglegroups wrote:
> > Suggestions for using averted vision when viewing through an telescope
> > eyepiece? Should I place a sky object in the side of the eyepiece- or
> > is the angle of my eyes the key to better viewing?

Esmail replied:
> One rather very successful technique I employ to view hard to see
> objects is averted imagination! It has a 100% success rate.

*****

For Esmail: <http://www.avertedimagination.com >

For brucegooglegroups: Center the object, because the center is where
your optical system has its best performance. Then experiment with the
best eye position. People I know look a little to the right or left of
center, but you may need to try up and down as well. It is important
that your eyes be dark-adapted before you try this -- that will make a
/huge/ difference in what you can see.

You can master the art of seeing with averted vision with about 30
seconds of practice if you are dark-adapted. Move your eye around until
you see the object. Then, for a moment, forget about the object and
note the point in your eyepiece where you are looking. That will be
your sweet spot for virtually all dim objects for that eye; repeat with
the other eye if you are ambidextrous-opticus-visionous whatchacallit.

Another thing that people sometimes fail to mention is that it is good
to observe with both eyes open -- trying to hold one eye closed quickly
becomes tiresome. If you are in a dim observatory no eye patch is
needed; you can train your unused eye to see nothing. If there are
sources of glare in your line of sight then an eye patch may be called
for.

Happy fuzzy viewing.

Davoud

--
usenet *at* davidillig dawt com

Date: 31 Jul 2007 11:43:41
From: Michael McCulloch
Subject: Re: averted vision when viewing in eyepiece

On Tue, 31 Jul 2007 00:17:52 GMT, Davoud <star@sky.net > wrote:

>Another thing that people sometimes fail to mention is that it is good
>to observe with both eyes open -- trying to hold one eye closed quickly
>becomes tiresome. If you are in a dim observatory no eye patch is
>needed; you can train your unused eye to see nothing. If there are
>sources of glare in your line of sight then an eye patch may be called
>for.

Or better yet, buy some binoviewers and use both eyes. You will be the
envy of your co-observers and will avoid those obligatory pirate
jokes.

---
Michael McCulloch

Date: 30 Jul 2007 20:00:31
From: Chris L Peterson
Subject: Re: averted vision when viewing in eyepiece

On Mon, 30 Jul 2007 12:16:37 -0700, brucegooglegroups
<brucegooglegroups@hotmail.com > wrote:

>Suggestions for using averted vision when viewing through an telescope
>eyepiece? Should I place a sky object in the side of the eyepiece- or
>is the angle of my eyes the key to better viewing?

Center the object in the EP. That's where your optics are best and the
image is brightest. Then look off center. About 10° to the outside is
optimal for most people, but try up, down, and inside as well to see
what works best for you.

_________________________________________________

Chris L Peterson
Cloudbait Observatory
http://www.cloudbait.com

Date: 30 Jul 2007 19:23:22
From: Sam Wormley
Subject: Re: averted vision when viewing in eyepiece

brucegooglegroups wrote:
> Suggestions for using averted vision when viewing through an telescope
> eyepiece? Should I place a sky object in the side of the eyepiece- or
> is the angle of my eyes the key to better viewing?
> Thanks.
> Bruce
>

My experience is that there is plenty of room for averted vision
techniques with object centered while tracking. Some times a little
vibration intentional or not can aid the process.