what galaxy

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Date: 17 Oct 2006 20:57:03
From: Eric
Subject: what galaxy

For someone in the US Pacific NW, around Olympia WA what is a good candidate
for an easily viewed galaxy? I only have a 4" reflector. I'd like to see
something that i can easily make out the shape of.
Any pointers ? :-) (pun intended)
My sky conditions are typically this: By naked eye I can sometimes see the
star at the point where the handle of the big dipper meets the dipper
itself, and sometimes not. When i can see it, its faint. I've got good
enough conditions so with my 4" telescope I've seen 5 of Jupiters moons,
and then all at once, very impressive sight! I can see Saturn and its rings
but its tiny. People have referred me to the Andromeda galaxy but I'll be
damned if i can find it. I've tried 10x50 binoculars also, and I just cant
spot it.
Thanks
Eric

Date: 18 Oct 2006 04:01:15
From: Sam Wormley
Subject: Re: what galaxy

Date: 18 Oct 2006 08:55:51
From: laura halliday
Subject: Re: what galaxy

Date: 18 Oct 2006 19:27:40
From: Eric
Subject: Re: what galaxy

laura halliday wrote:

> Eric wrote:
>> For someone in the US Pacific NW, around Olympia WA what is a good
>> candidate for an easily viewed galaxy? I only have a 4" reflector. I'd
>> like to see something that i can easily make out the shape of.
>> Any pointers ? :-) (pun intended)
>> My sky conditions are typically this: By naked eye I can sometimes see
>> the star at the point where the handle of the big dipper meets the dipper
>> itself, and sometimes not. When i can see it, its faint. I've got good
>> enough conditions so with my 4" telescope I've seen 5 of Jupiters moons,
>> and then all at once, very impressive sight! I can see Saturn and its
>> rings but its tiny. People have referred me to the Andromeda galaxy but
>> I'll be damned if i can find it. I've tried 10x50 binoculars also, and I
>> just cant spot it.
>
> M31 is still your best bet. I always sight from the "sharp"
> point of Cassiopeia (Schedar, Alpha Cassiopeiae) to
> Beta Andromedae. It's not that difficult to find, but it's
> not going to be much more than a vaguely elliptical
> smudge.
>
> Dark skies make an enormous difference: the last new
> moon I was at a place that was dark enough that M31 was
> obvious to the naked eye, and I could see M33 as well.
> The view through a telescope was a revelation, with
> the main dust lane in M31, and spiral structure and
> NGC604 in M33.
>
> There are other galaxies in range of your scope (e.g. M81),
> but it's the wrong time of year for them, and they too will
> never be more than a faint grey smudge on the sky.
>
> 5 moons of Jupiter? In a 4 inch? I think not...
>
> Laura Halliday VE7LDH "Que les nuages soient notre
> Grid: CN89mg pied a terre..."
> ICBM: 49 16.05 N 122 56.92 W - Hospital/Shafte

It was quite obvious, perhaps they were stars close to it but they were very
tiny but bright points and made a straight line slightly diagonal across
Jupiter, ie draw a line from outmost left to outermost right and they all
would be very close to being on the line
Eric

Date: 23 Oct 2006 22:21:03
From: Dave
Subject: Re: what galaxy

I saw what you did a few months ago. The fifth 'moon' was a background
star. It was just a coincidence that it lined up with the others.

M31 would be a simple target even in polluted skies, though you don't
appreciate much more than a blurred smudge. Easy to find. You just have to
imagine how big it is, as you are only really seeing the inner, brightest
part. Once you see it in a truly dark sky it will bring back memories when
you see it again. Seen without that memory it is mildly disappointing.

Dave

"Eric" <nospam@email.com > wrote in message
news:0YGdneYGkqc_f6vYnZ2dnUVZ_qudnZ2d@comcast.com...
> laura halliday wrote:
>
>> Eric wrote:
>>> For someone in the US Pacific NW, around Olympia WA what is a good
>>> candidate for an easily viewed galaxy? I only have a 4" reflector. I'd
>>> like to see something that i can easily make out the shape of.
>>> Any pointers ? :-) (pun intended)
>>> My sky conditions are typically this: By naked eye I can sometimes see
>>> the star at the point where the handle of the big dipper meets the
>>> dipper
>>> itself, and sometimes not. When i can see it, its faint. I've got good
>>> enough conditions so with my 4" telescope I've seen 5 of Jupiters moons,
>>> and then all at once, very impressive sight! I can see Saturn and its
>>> rings but its tiny. People have referred me to the Andromeda galaxy but
>>> I'll be damned if i can find it. I've tried 10x50 binoculars also, and I
>>> just cant spot it.
>>
>> M31 is still your best bet. I always sight from the "sharp"
>> point of Cassiopeia (Schedar, Alpha Cassiopeiae) to
>> Beta Andromedae. It's not that difficult to find, but it's
>> not going to be much more than a vaguely elliptical
>> smudge.
>>
>> Dark skies make an enormous difference: the last new
>> moon I was at a place that was dark enough that M31 was
>> obvious to the naked eye, and I could see M33 as well.
>> The view through a telescope was a revelation, with
>> the main dust lane in M31, and spiral structure and
>> NGC604 in M33.
>>
>> There are other galaxies in range of your scope (e.g. M81),
>> but it's the wrong time of year for them, and they too will
>> never be more than a faint grey smudge on the sky.
>>
>> 5 moons of Jupiter? In a 4 inch? I think not...
>>
>> Laura Halliday VE7LDH "Que les nuages soient notre
>> Grid: CN89mg pied a terre..."
>> ICBM: 49 16.05 N 122 56.92 W - Hospital/Shafte
>
> It was quite obvious, perhaps they were stars close to it but they were
> very
> tiny but bright points and made a straight line slightly diagonal across
> Jupiter, ie draw a line from outmost left to outermost right and they all
> would be very close to being on the line
> Eric
>

Date: 17 Oct 2006 22:19:24
From: Zebra24601
Subject: Re: what galaxy

Date: 18 Oct 2006 16:18:32
From: Willie R. Meghar
Subject: Re: what galaxy

Eric wrote:

>For someone in the US Pacific NW, around Olympia WA what is a good candidate
>for an easily viewed galaxy? I only have a 4" reflector. I'd like to see
>something that i can easily make out the shape of.
>Any pointers ? :-) (pun intended)

M31 is the easiest galaxy to find and see from your location under
your sky conditions; but you'll only be seeing the inner portion of
this galaxy.

The shape (an oval with indistinct edge and brighter center) will be
that of the galaxy's inner region. To see more you'll need darker
skies and/or greater aperture. Experience is another factor in how
much you'll see.

Your 10x50 binoculars *might* be better than your 4" telescope for
finding and viewing M31.

Besides M31, M81 is probably the easiest galaxy to see with your
telescope from your location. Unfortunately, under your sky
conditions it will be difficult to locate this galaxy (no stars
visible to the unaided eye nearby to help you point your telescope to
the right spot in the sky).

Once you find M81, chances are good that you'll also see M82, a fairly
bright, nearby galaxy. These two galaxies will be better seen with
your telescope than with your binoculars.

M81and M82 will be higher in the morning sky at this time of year than
they are in the evening sky. Look for them in the morning after the
moon's gone, but before the first hint of morning twilight.

>My sky conditions are typically this: By naked eye I can sometimes see the
>star at the point where the handle of the big dipper meets the dipper
>itself, and sometimes not. When i can see it, its faint.

Taken into account.

>People have referred me to the Andromeda galaxy but I'll be
>damned if i can find it. I've tried 10x50 binoculars also, and I just cant
>spot it.

Under your conditions you should be able to see M31 with your 10x50
binoculars. Don't give up too quickly. Point your binoculars at Beta
Andromedae, then scan past Mu and Nu to find M31.

It helps to do the best you can (difficult in the presence of lights)
in allowing your eyes to dark adapt prior to looking for these
objects. Also, galaxies will sometimes disappear when you look
directly at them. Use 'averted vision' -- the art of seeing without
looking ;-)

When looking for these galaxies use your telescope's lowest
magnification. M81 and M82 are small compared to M31; but they're
still plenty large enough to see and recognize using your telescope's
lowest magnification (They're both visible in 7x binoculars from a
dark-sky location). Expect to see nothing more than faint, nebulous
blobs of light -- stains against the background sky. You *might* see
more; but it's best to expect no more.

Willie R. Meghar
Observational Notes at:
http://meghar.blogspot.com/

Date: 18 Oct 2006 19:22:18
From: Eric
Subject: Re: what galaxy

Willie R. Meghar wrote:

> Eric wrote:
>
>>For someone in the US Pacific NW, around Olympia WA what is a good
>>candidate for an easily viewed galaxy? I only have a 4" reflector. I'd
>>like to see something that i can easily make out the shape of.
>>Any pointers ? :-) (pun intended)
>
> M31 is the easiest galaxy to find and see from your location under
> your sky conditions; but you'll only be seeing the inner portion of
> this galaxy.
>
> The shape (an oval with indistinct edge and brighter center) will be
> that of the galaxy's inner region. To see more you'll need darker
> skies and/or greater aperture. Experience is another factor in how
> much you'll see.
>
> Your 10x50 binoculars *might* be better than your 4" telescope for
> finding and viewing M31.
>
> Besides M31, M81 is probably the easiest galaxy to see with your
> telescope from your location. Unfortunately, under your sky
> conditions it will be difficult to locate this galaxy (no stars
> visible to the unaided eye nearby to help you point your telescope to
> the right spot in the sky).
>
> Once you find M81, chances are good that you'll also see M82, a fairly
> bright, nearby galaxy. These two galaxies will be better seen with
> your telescope than with your binoculars.
>
> M81and M82 will be higher in the morning sky at this time of year than
> they are in the evening sky. Look for them in the morning after the
> moon's gone, but before the first hint of morning twilight.
>
>>My sky conditions are typically this: By naked eye I can sometimes see the
>>star at the point where the handle of the big dipper meets the dipper
>>itself, and sometimes not. When i can see it, its faint.
>
> Taken into account.
>
>>People have referred me to the Andromeda galaxy but I'll be
>>damned if i can find it. I've tried 10x50 binoculars also, and I just cant
>>spot it.
>
> Under your conditions you should be able to see M31 with your 10x50
> binoculars. Don't give up too quickly. Point your binoculars at Beta
> Andromedae, then scan past Mu and Nu to find M31.
>
> It helps to do the best you can (difficult in the presence of lights)
> in allowing your eyes to dark adapt prior to looking for these
> objects. Also, galaxies will sometimes disappear when you look
> directly at them. Use 'averted vision' -- the art of seeing without
> looking ;-)
>
> When looking for these galaxies use your telescope's lowest
> magnification. M81 and M82 are small compared to M31; but they're
> still plenty large enough to see and recognize using your telescope's
> lowest magnification (They're both visible in 7x binoculars from a
> dark-sky location). Expect to see nothing more than faint, nebulous
> blobs of light -- stains against the background sky. You *might* see
> more; but it's best to expect no more.
>
> Willie R. Meghar
> Observational Notes at:
> http://meghar.blogspot.com/

One thing, having not seen M31 I'm unsure what i should expect. A faint oval
blur?

Date: 18 Oct 2006 20:52:38
From: Brian Tung
Subject: Re: what galaxy

Eric wrote:
> One thing, having not seen M31 I'm unsure what i should expect. A faint oval
> blur?

Date: 18 Oct 2006 21:49:37
From: Eric
Subject: Re: what galaxy

Brian Tung wrote:

> Eric wrote:
>> One thing, having not seen M31 I'm unsure what i should expect. A faint
>> oval blur?

Date: 19 Oct 2006 05:04:38
From: Chris L Peterson
Subject: Re: what galaxy

On Wed, 18 2006 21:49:37 -0700, Eric <nospam@email.com > wrote:

>Are you saying M31 will stretch across the sky about equal to 8 times the
>apparent size of the moon?

Yes. Even the core visible to the naked eye under dark skies is quite a
bit larger than the Moon. So are other well known objects like the Orion
Nebula and the Pleiades. But don't expect any of these to be perceived
as larger than the Moon unless you are very discerning; the Moon appears
much larger than its actual size, due to one or more optical illusions.

_________________________________________________

Chris L Peterson
Cloudbait Observatory
http://www.cloudbait.com

Date: 19 Oct 2006 18:45:25
From: Jax
Subject: Re: what galaxy

"Eric" <nospam@email.com > wrote in message
news:McGdnYqSIJR5nqrYnZ2dnUVZ_smdnZ2d@comcast.com...
> Brian Tung wrote:
> >>
>> M31 has a length in the neighborhood of 4 degrees, though only the
>> central degree or so will be easy to see in a 4-inch refractor under
>> suburban skies. By comparison, the Full Moon is about half a degree
>> across.
>>
> Are you saying M31 will stretch across the sky about equal to 8 times the
> apparent size of the moon?
> Eric

Yes, from a -very-dark-site. In light polluted skies the less dense outer
part of the galaxy will blend into the background sky, and you will only see
the smaller, brighter core. You should see an elongated gray blob that fits
neatly in your lowest power field of view. If you do go to a very dark
site, you should see enough of the galaxy to more than fill the field of
view.

peace,
jon II

Date: 19 Oct 2006 02:45:31
From: Chris L Peterson
Subject: Re: what galaxy

On Wed, 18 2006 19:22:18 -0700, Eric <nospam@email.com > wrote:

>One thing, having not seen M31 I'm unsure what i should expect. A faint oval
>blur?

Date: 19 Oct 2006 14:42:29
From: Willie R. Meghar
Subject: Re: what galaxy

Eric wrote:

>One thing, having not seen M31 I'm unsure what i should expect. A faint oval
>blur?

Date: 18 Oct 2006 10:35:29
From: Zebra24601
Subject: Re: what galaxy

Chris L Peterson wrote:
> On Tue, 17 2006 20:57:03 -0700, Eric <nospam@email.com> wrote:
>
> >For someone in the US Pacific NW, around Olympia WA what is a good candidate
> >for an easily viewed galaxy? I only have a 4" reflector. I'd like to see
> >something that i can easily make out the shape of.
> >Any pointers ? :-) (pun intended)
> >My sky conditions are typically this: By naked eye I can sometimes see the
> >star at the point where the handle of the big dipper meets the dipper
> >itself, and sometimes not. When i can see it, its faint. I've got good
> >enough conditions so with my 4" telescope I've seen 5 of Jupiters moons,
> >and then all at once, very impressive sight! I can see Saturn and its rings
> >but its tiny. People have referred me to the Andromeda galaxy but I'll be
> >damned if i can find it. I've tried 10x50 binoculars also, and I just cant
> >spot it.
> >Thanks
> >Eric
>
> M31 is easy, so you're probably just looking in the wrong place. But
> that said, forget M31. It's not a nice galaxy visually. It's too big,
> and too low contrast. Basically, it's just uninteresting visually.
> Expert observers learn to see detail, but it's hard. You might as well
> watch a cloud, IMO.

True, but from the OP's location I think this is the only one he'll be
able to see.

> You want smaller, brighter objects. My favorite is M51, which shows
> structure even under moderately light skies. Also very good are M81 and
> M82. All of these can be found with binoculars, and will show well in a
> 4" instrument.

>From my location (similar in darkness to the OP), M81 and M82 were
visible but not obvious in my 4-inch refractor. None of those last
three would be binocular objects. Never saw M51 in my four-inch. With
my 8-inch SCT, M-51 is two smudges. Defiinitely smaller and harder
than M31.

Date: 18 Oct 2006 20:45:13
From: Brian Tung
Subject: Re: what galaxy

Zebra24601 wrote:
> From my location (similar in darkness to the OP), M81 and M82 were
> visible but not obvious in my 4-inch refractor. None of those last
> three would be binocular objects. Never saw M51 in my four-inch. With
> my 8-inch SCT, M-51 is two smudges. Defiinitely smaller and harder
> than M31.

I live in Santa Monica, a suburb of Los Angeles. I commonly observe
with the 5-inch SCT referred to in my .sig, a scope which is quite
similar in terms of grasp to a 4-inch refractor. In my experience,
M81/M82 are easier than M31, which in turn is easier than M51. None of
them is very hard, though. M82 shows quite a bit of detail if you are
willing to be patient and use high magnification. This results in a
view which may not be as aesthetically pleasing, but makes what texture
there is in M82 (and there's quite a bit) easier to see.

Incidentally, the original poster quite obviously did not see five
satellites of Jupiter, since the fifth one is far, far dimmer than the
Big Four. It must have been a star that happened to be in line with
the satellites, an alignment that happens quite frequently.

--
Brian Tung <brian@isi.edu >
The Astronomy Corner at http://astro.isi.edu/
Unofficial C5+ Home Page at http://astro.isi.edu/c5plus/
The PleiadAtlas Home Page at http://astro.isi.edu/pleiadatlas/
My Own Personal FAQ (SAA) at http://astro.isi.edu/reference/faq.html

Date: 18 Oct 2006 18:18:52
From: Chris L Peterson
Subject: Re: what galaxy

On 18 2006 10:35:29 -0700, "Zebra24601" <socrosemead@yahoo.com >
wrote:

>True, but from the OP's location I think this is the only one he'll be
>able to see.

I disagree. M31 is not an easy object unless your skies are pretty dark.
It's just too diffuse, and is lost in any skyglow.

>> You want smaller, brighter objects. My favorite is M51, which shows
>> structure even under moderately light skies. Also very good are M81 and
>> M82. All of these can be found with binoculars, and will show well in a
>> 4" instrument.
>
>>From my location (similar in darkness to the OP), M81 and M82 were
>visible but not obvious in my 4-inch refractor. None of those last
>three would be binocular objects. Never saw M51 in my four-inch. With
>my 8-inch SCT, M-51 is two smudges. Defiinitely smaller and harder
>than M31.

This isn't my experience. Back when I lived in Southern California (much
worse skies than the OP has) these three objects were always good
choices. M51 is easy as a smudge, although you need darker skies to see
much structure. M81/M82, on the other hand, clearly show their shapes
even under bright skies. These are a couple of the brightest object up
there- much brighter then M31. All should be visible as smudges in
binoculars, and all should be very obvious in an 80mm or larger scope.

_________________________________________________

Chris L Peterson
Cloudbait Observatory
http://www.cloudbait.com

Date: 18 Oct 2006 16:24:18
From: Chris L Peterson
Subject: Re: what galaxy

On Tue, 17 2006 20:57:03 -0700, Eric <nospam@email.com > wrote:

>For someone in the US Pacific NW, around Olympia WA what is a good candidate
>for an easily viewed galaxy? I only have a 4" reflector. I'd like to see
>something that i can easily make out the shape of.
>Any pointers ? :-) (pun intended)
>My sky conditions are typically this: By naked eye I can sometimes see the
>star at the point where the handle of the big dipper meets the dipper
>itself, and sometimes not. When i can see it, its faint. I've got good
>enough conditions so with my 4" telescope I've seen 5 of Jupiters moons,
>and then all at once, very impressive sight! I can see Saturn and its rings
>but its tiny. People have referred me to the Andromeda galaxy but I'll be
>damned if i can find it. I've tried 10x50 binoculars also, and I just cant
>spot it.
>Thanks
>Eric

M31 is easy, so you're probably just looking in the wrong place. But
that said, forget M31. It's not a nice galaxy visually. It's too big,
and too low contrast. Basically, it's just uninteresting visually.
Expert observers learn to see detail, but it's hard. You might as well
watch a cloud, IMO.

You want smaller, brighter objects. My favorite is M51, which shows
structure even under moderately light skies. Also very good are M81 and
M82. All of these can be found with binoculars, and will show well in a
4" instrument.

_________________________________________________

Chris L Peterson
Cloudbait Observatory
http://www.cloudbait.com

Date: 19 Oct 2006 13:06:07
From: Dennis Woos
Subject: Re: what galaxy

"Eric" <nospam@email.com > wrote in message
news:WOydne4hrKCJO6jYnZ2dnUVZ_rydnZ2d@comcast.com...
> For someone in the US Pacific NW, around Olympia WA what is a good
> candidate
> for an easily viewed galaxy? I only have a 4" reflector. I'd like to see
> something that i can easily make out the shape of.
> Any pointers ? :-) (pun intended)
> My sky conditions are typically this: By naked eye I can sometimes see the
> star at the point where the handle of the big dipper meets the dipper
> itself, and sometimes not. When i can see it, its faint. I've got good
> enough conditions so with my 4" telescope I've seen 5 of Jupiters moons,
> and then all at once, very impressive sight! I can see Saturn and its
> rings
> but its tiny. People have referred me to the Andromeda galaxy but I'll be
> damned if i can find it. I've tried 10x50 binoculars also, and I just cant
> spot it.
> Thanks
> Eric
>

You need to get a handle on your light-pollution problem. I suggest you go
to:

http://cleardarksky.com/lp/OlympiaWAlp.html?Mn=astronomy

Also, you should join your local astro club, where you will meet folks who
can help you to get the most out of your observing and equipment.
Hopefully, they are a lot of fun to hang out with as well.

Dennis

Date: 19 Oct 2006 09:00:40
From: laura halliday
Subject: Re: what galaxy

Eric wrote:

> It was quite obvious, perhaps they were stars close to it but they were very
> tiny but bright points and made a straight line slightly diagonal across
> Jupiter, ie draw a line from outmost left to outermost right and they all
> would be very close to being on the line

They were stars. Jupiters's 4 large moons are visible in binoculars.
The smaller ones are out of reach of all but the largest amateur
telescopes. There was a similar issue last year when Saturn passed
close to M44 and there were numerous field stars that looked
like moons.

A lot of this thread comes down to two questions, that come up a
lot in this newsgroup. They are:

1. What can I see in my telescope?

2. What will it look like?

My answers, FWIW:

You can see quite a bit in your telescope, even under
your skies.

Many objects will look interesting, but galaxies (even M31)
aren't going to be much more than an elongated silvery-grey
blur. I'd concentrate on the moon, the planets, double stars,
star clusters, and so on.

There was an article in Sky & Telescope a couple of years
ago about how various Messier objects fared under urban
skies. You might want to dig it out of the archive.

Laura Halliday VE7LDH "Que les nuages soient notre
Grid: CN89mg pied a terre..."
ICBM: 49 16.05 N 122 56.92 W - Hospital/Shafte

Date: 19 Oct 2006 06:59:04
From:
Subject: Re: what galaxy

Eric wrote:

> One thing, having not seen M31 I'm unsure what i should expect. A faint oval
> blur?

Date: 19 Oct 2006 10:03:14
From: Brian Tung
Subject: Re: what galaxy

Tony Flanders wrote:
> Nonetheless, I strongly urge you to locate M31 -- if you can't do that,
> you're totally sunk. All this advice about M81/M82 and so on might be
> relevant at other times of year, but Ursa Major is near its lowest in
> the sky right now, which will make it very hard to see the galaxies
> there. And personally, I find M31 much easier to locate and see than
> any other northern galaxy under any conditions with any instrument.

M81/M82 are good in the pre-dawn hours, if Eric can observe at that
time. The light pollution is better then, too.

No question about M31 being easier to find, though.

--
Brian Tung <brian@isi.edu >
The Astronomy Corner at http://astro.isi.edu/
Unofficial C5+ Home Page at http://astro.isi.edu/c5plus/
The PleiadAtlas Home Page at http://astro.isi.edu/pleiadatlas/
My Own Personal FAQ (SAA) at http://astro.isi.edu/reference/faq.html

Date: 19 Oct 2006 04:46:24
From: Stephen Paul
Subject: Re: what galaxy

Eric wrote:
> For someone in the US Pacific NW, around Olympia WA what is a good candidate
> for an easily viewed galaxy? I only have a 4" reflector. I'd like to see
> something that i can easily make out the shape of.
> Any pointers ? :-) (pun intended)
> My sky conditions are typically this: By naked eye I can sometimes see the
> star at the point where the handle of the big dipper meets the dipper
> itself, and sometimes not. When i can see it, its faint. I've got good
> enough conditions so with my 4" telescope I've seen 5 of Jupiters moons,
> and then all at once, very impressive sight! I can see Saturn and its rings
> but its tiny. People have referred me to the Andromeda galaxy but I'll be
> damned if i can find it. I've tried 10x50 binoculars also, and I just cant
> spot it.
> Thanks
> Eric
>

Lots of good info from the gang.

In my opinion you should start out by locating the brighter galaxies
mentioned here, not for detail, but simply to become familiar with where
they are. Visit them often. Don't give up on looking for them if you
can't find them at first. It is possible that you are in the right
place, but your eye isn't yet trained to pick them out.

The M81/M82 pair were the first galaxies I ever detected, using my very
first scope, a 4" Mak. Years later they are now super easy to see, and
detail is not out of the question for M82 even in a small scope.

M51 is my favorite galaxy to observe in any scope, as it is likely to
reveal its spiral arms with relative ease, given darkness, experience,
and 6" or so of aperture.

Galaxies are one of, if not the most difficult objects to observe for
detail. The more times you go back to them, the more you will see, until
your sky or your scope become the limiting factor. They are also very
different in appearance one from the other. Some are an oval haze, some
a round haze, some have bright cores, others dim, some extend brightly
beyond their core, others not. There is a huge gamut, but mostly they do
appear as non-stellar objects. Another good group to look for is the
M65/M66 pair in Leo.

A dark sky provides more gain than a larger scope, so before you go off
and buy a 12" Dob to observe from your backyard, consider the
possibility of traveling to your nearest dark site with something more
portable (6" to 8" is reasonable).

At this point in my observing career, I can now find and see the dual
cores of M51 and companion (which are just off the handle of the Big
Dipper) using an 80mm refractor. On a good night, when it is high
overhead, it is possible to see the glow of the spiral arms using
averted vision, although detecting the arms themselves is not likely
with less than a 6" scope under my skies (mag 5+ overhead).

Try observing galaxies when they are high overhead, as you will be
looking through less atmosphere.

Another interesting object that appears like a galaxy, is the super nova
remnant M1 in Taurus. It is located north from the head, out toward the
end of the eastern horn, in the direction of the Gemini twins.

Happy observing!
-Steve