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Main
Date: 23 Sep 2006 20:02:40
From: Thomas Mickleman
Subject: shuttle orbit
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Why does the NASA plot in the control room of the orbit look like a sine
wave ?
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Date: 24 Sep 2006 01:12:15
From: John Taylor
Subject: Re: shuttle orbit
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Because it is at an angle to the celestial equator
"Thomas Mickleman" <TM@tuass.net > wrote in message
news:ApgRg.35468$E67.15685@clgrps13...
> Why does the NASA plot in the control room of the orbit look like a sine
> wave ?
>
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Date: 23 Sep 2006 23:05:17
From: Sam Wormley
Subject: Re: shuttle orbit
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Thomas Mickleman wrote:
> Why does the NASA plot in the control room of the orbit look like a sine
> wave ?
>
>
+------------+ +---------------------------------------------+
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Date: 23 Sep 2006 23:25:13
From: Florian
Subject: Re: shuttle orbit
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I didn't realize this was a trolling post. Looked like a valid question. =
A question that used to confuse me too.
.Florian
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Date: 24 Sep 2006 09:52:03
From: Trane Francks
Subject: Re: shuttle orbit
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On 09/24/2006 08:25 AM +0900, Florian wrote:
> I didn't realize this was a trolling post. Looked like a valid
> question. A question that used to confuse me too.
The most brilliant troll of all. What is even more brilliant, however,
is that Mick has trained certain users to peruse headers in search of
the game that is 'troll'. Even if they don't get a response, they've
gotten the attention they so desperately crave.
You might hate it, but you do have to admire it.
trane
--
/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
// Trane Francks trane@gol.com Tokyo, Japan
// Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty.
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Date: 24 Sep 2006 16:51:19
From: Thomas Mickleman
Subject: Re: shuttle orbit
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"Florian" <star6@TheDesertSon.com > wrote in message
news:tnjRg.8390$xg7.4682@tornado.socal.rr.com...
I didn't realize this was a trolling post. Looked like a valid question. A
question that used to confuse me too.
.Florian
Exactly Florian. I can't believe I got a troll alert response to a
perfectly reasonable question.
It's the partially senile ones that take offence to such things I should
think.
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Date: 23 Sep 2006 22:22:42
From: Florian
Subject: Re: shuttle orbit
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>Why does the NASA plot in the control room of the orbit look like a =
sine=20
>wave ?=20
I've demonstrated this to people using string and an Earth globe. Take a =
globe and wrap a sting around it to match the path of the NASA control =
room map and you'll understand.
.Florian
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Date: 24 Sep 2006 01:30:53
From: Ioannis
Subject: Re: shuttle orbit
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"Florian" <star6@TheDesertSon.com > wrote in message
news:SsiRg.11150$rE5.730@tornado.socal.rr.com...
>>Why does the NASA plot in the control room of the orbit look like a sine
>>wave ?
> I've demonstrated this to people using string and an Earth globe.
> Take a globe and wrap a sting around it to match the path
> of the NASA control room map and you'll understand.
Wouldn't it be easier if you wrapped the string normally around the toy globe
and then, rotated the globe and saw what happened at a single projected point?
Unless that's what you meant, of course...
> .Florian
What's wrong with your name? Did you become an invisible file in a unix
directory? :-)
--
Ioannis
-------
The best way to predict reality, is to know exactly what you DON'T want.
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Date: 23 Sep 2006 23:24:05
From: Florian
Subject: Re: shuttle orbit
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>Wouldn't it be easier if you wrapped the string normally around the toy =
globe
>and then, rotated the globe and saw what happened at a single projected =
point?
Not sure how you'd rotate the globe under the string.
>What's wrong with your name? Did you become an invisible file in a unix
>directory? :-)
.Florian likes being invisible
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Date: 24 Sep 2006 17:02:59
From: Thomas Mickleman
Subject: Re: shuttle orbit
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"Florian" <star6@TheDesertSon.com > wrote in message
news:pmjRg.11153$rE5.2390@tornado.socal.rr.com...
>Wouldn't it be easier if you wrapped the string normally around the toy
>globe
>and then, rotated the globe and saw what happened at a single projected
>point?
I tried taking a globe and a pen and went around it like the shuttle would
and it still doesn't make sense.
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Date: 24 Sep 2006 20:10:33
From: Ioannis
Subject: Re: shuttle orbit
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"Thomas Mickleman" <TM@tuass.net > wrote in message
news:7TyRg.35603$E67.1075@clgrps13...
>
>
> "Florian" <star6@TheDesertSon.com> wrote in message
> news:pmjRg.11153$rE5.2390@tornado.socal.rr.com...
> >Wouldn't it be easier if you wrapped the string normally around the toy
> >globe
> >and then, rotated the globe and saw what happened at a single projected
> >point?
>
>
> I tried taking a globe and a pen and went around it like the shuttle would
> and it still doesn't make sense.
Who are you replying to? Florian didn't write what you quoted. I did.
--
Ioannis
-------
The best way to predict reality, is to know exactly what you DON'T want.
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Date: 24 Sep 2006 17:17:05
From: Thomas Mickleman
Subject: Re: shuttle orbit
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"Ioannis" <morpheus@olympus.mons > wrote in message
news:1159117772.495785@athprx03...
> "Thomas Mickleman" <TM@tuass.net> wrote in message
> news:7TyRg.35603$E67.1075@clgrps13...
>>
>>
>> "Florian" <star6@TheDesertSon.com> wrote in message
>> news:pmjRg.11153$rE5.2390@tornado.socal.rr.com...
>> >Wouldn't it be easier if you wrapped the string normally around the toy
>> >globe
>> >and then, rotated the globe and saw what happened at a single projected
>> >point?
>>
>>
>> I tried taking a globe and a pen and went around it like the shuttle
>> would
>> and it still doesn't make sense.
>
> Who are you replying to? Florian didn't write what you quoted. I did.
Well then, can you answer my question?
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Date: 24 Sep 2006 21:08:00
From: Kruger Kid
Subject: Re: shuttle orbit
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Go to
http://www.heavens-above.com
Configure it to your location.
Select a satellite of interest like the ISS.
Select "orbit".
this will show you 3 views of the satellite.
1) view above the orbital plane
2) view above satellite
3) ground track view.
This should help you visualize the path.
Below is the orbital view of the International Space Station (ISS)
above Sacramento, CA
http://tinyurl.com/f2kxz
http://www.heavens-above.com/orbitdisplay.asp?lat=38.582&lng=-121.493&alt=5&loc=Sacramento&TZ=PST&satid=25544
Note: as I compose this some functions of the heavens-above web site
are down.
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Date: 24 Sep 2006 22:00:50
From: Thomas Mickleman
Subject: Re: shuttle orbit
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"Kruger Kid" <kkofvirgo@yahoo.com > wrote in message
news:bnrdh2tcvo2s0cusn6c2c9arb1r19k18v7@4ax.com...
> Go to
> http://www.heavens-above.com
>
> Configure it to your location.
>
> Select a satellite of interest like the ISS.
> Select "orbit".
> this will show you 3 views of the satellite.
> 1) view above the orbital plane
> 2) view above satellite
> 3) ground track view.
> This should help you visualize the path.
>
> Below is the orbital view of the International Space Station (ISS)
> above Sacramento, CA
> http://tinyurl.com/f2kxz
> http://www.heavens-above.com/orbitdisplay.asp?lat=38.582&lng=-121.493&alt=5&loc=Sacramento&TZ=PST&satid=25544
>
> Note: as I compose this some functions of the heavens-above web site
> are down.
YU DA MAN YU DA MAN WOO WOO WOO WOO....Thanks to the rest who actually
answered the question.
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Date: 24 Sep 2006 20:43:59
From: Ioannis
Subject: Re: shuttle orbit
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"Thomas Mickleman" <TM@tuass.net > wrote in message
news:l4zRg.31187$bf5.25051@edtnps90...
>
>
> "Ioannis" <morpheus@olympus.mons> wrote in message
> news:1159117772.495785@athprx03...
> > "Thomas Mickleman" <TM@tuass.net> wrote in message
> > news:7TyRg.35603$E67.1075@clgrps13...
> >>
> >>
> >> "Florian" <star6@TheDesertSon.com> wrote in message
> >> news:pmjRg.11153$rE5.2390@tornado.socal.rr.com...
> >> >Wouldn't it be easier if you wrapped the string normally around the toy
> >> >globe
> >> >and then, rotated the globe and saw what happened at a single projected
> >> >point?
> >>
> >>
> >> I tried taking a globe and a pen and went around it like the shuttle
> >> would
> >> and it still doesn't make sense.
> >
> > Who are you replying to? Florian didn't write what you quoted. I did.
>
>
> Well then, can you answer my question?
Take a small globe and wrap around it a string forming a full circle on a
plane different than the globe's equator. Dip the string in ink prior to
wrapping it against the sphere. Then roll the sphere with the inked string
against a piece of paper by keeping the sphere's north-south axis parallel to
the paper surface, as you roll.
The ink mark on the paper will be similar to a sine wave after a couple of
full revolutions.
--
Ioannis
-------
The best way to predict reality, is to know exactly what you DON'T want.
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Date: 24 Sep 2006 13:50:27
From: St. John Smythe
Subject: Re: shuttle orbit
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Thomas Mickleman wrote:
> I tried taking a globe and a pen and went around it like the shuttle would
> and it still doesn't make sense.
But if you took that same globe and did orbits around it as you rotated
it on its axis, it would make sense. Perhaps it's the obviousness of it
(no offense) that made some folks suspect a troll.
--
St. John
Whenever someone tells you to take their advice, you can be pretty sure
that they're not using it.
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Date: 25 Sep 2006 18:39:21
From: AM
Subject: Re: shuttle orbit
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Thomas Mickleman wrote:
> "Florian" <star6@TheDesertSon.com> wrote in message
> news:pmjRg.11153$rE5.2390@tornado.socal.rr.com...
>
>>Wouldn't it be easier if you wrapped the string normally around the toy
>>globe
>>and then, rotated the globe and saw what happened at a single projected
>>point?
>
>
>
> I tried taking a globe and a pen and went around it like the shuttle would
> and it still doesn't make sense.
>
>
And yet you could just look up the answer on the net very
easily with fewer words than you have posted here.......
--
AM
http://sctuser.home.comcast.net
CentOS 4.3 KDE 3.3
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Date: 24 Sep 2006 10:58:26
From: Ioannis
Subject: Re: shuttle orbit
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"Florian" <star6@TheDesertSon.com > wrote in message
news:pmjRg.11153$rE5.2390@tornado.socal.rr.com...
>>Wouldn't it be easier if you wrapped the string normally around the toy
globe
>>and then, rotated the globe and saw what happened at a single projected
point?
>Not sure how you'd rotate the globe under the string.
I meant rotate the globe WITH the string. Then, if the string does not lie on
the globe's equator, looking at it while it rotates with the string, the
projection of any point on the string (such as one that lies on your visual
axis) will traverse a sine wave.
>>What's wrong with your name? Did you become an invisible file in a unix
>>directory? :-)
>.Florian likes being invisible
Heh. Whatever rocks your boat :-)
--
Ioannis
-------
The best way to predict reality, is to know exactly what you DON'T want.
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Date: 23 Sep 2006 14:20:58
From: Greg Crinklaw
Subject: Re: shuttle orbit
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Thomas Mickleman wrote:
> Why does the NASA plot in the control room of the orbit look like a sine
> wave ?
Simple: it's done to give childish trolls with no lives and nothing to
offer the chance to ask stupid questions on SAA, most likely so they can
start a silly argument or simply insult the first person who takes their
time to seriously answer the question. I think the latter is sort of a
power trip: "Hey Mom, see how I made some fool answer my stupid question
on SAA! For an instant, I almost felt secure in myself."
Oh and thanks for the reminder to update my Loser Filter, Mick.
--
Greg Crinklaw
Astronomical Software Developer
Cloudcroft, New Mexico, USA (33N, 106W, 2700m)
SkyTools: http://www.skyhound.com/cs.html
Observing: http://www.skyhound.com/sh/skyhound.html
Comets: http://www.skyhound.com/sh/comets.html
To reply take out your eye
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Date: 23 Sep 2006 20:24:13
From: Greg STINKLAW
Subject: Re: shuttle orbit
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"Greg Crinklaw" <theskyhoundyoureye@yahoo.com > wrote in message
news:195be$451596ef$4212a5f6$23506@TULAROSA.NET...
> Thomas Mickleman wrote:
>> Why does the NASA plot in the control room of the orbit look like a sine
>> wave ?
>
> Simple: it's done to give childish trolls with no lives and nothing to
> offer the chance to ask stupid questions on SAA, most likely so they can
> start a silly argument or simply insult the first person who takes their
> time to seriously answer the question. I think the latter is sort of a
> power trip: "Hey Mom, see how I made some fool answer my stupid question
> on SAA! For an instant, I almost felt secure in myself."
>
> Oh and thanks for the reminder to update my Loser Filter, Mick.
Take your meds little man.
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Date: 23 Sep 2006 15:15:17
From: Greg Crinklaw
Subject: Re: shuttle orbit
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Greg STINKLAW wrote:
> "Greg Crinklaw" <theskyhoundyoureye@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:195be$451596ef$4212a5f6$23506@TULAROSA.NET...
>> Thomas Mickleman wrote:
>>> Why does the NASA plot in the control room of the orbit look like a sine
>>> wave ?
>> Simple: it's done to give childish trolls with no lives and nothing to
>> offer the chance to ask stupid questions on SAA, most likely so they can
>> start a silly argument or simply insult the first person who takes their
>> time to seriously answer the question. I think the latter is sort of a
>> power trip: "Hey Mom, see how I made some fool answer my stupid question
>> on SAA! For an instant, I almost felt secure in myself."
>>
>> Oh and thanks for the reminder to update my Loser Filter, Mick.
>
>
> Take your meds little man.
Awwww... did I stwike a littol nerve Mickie?
What goes around comes around, even, it seems, on Usenet.
--
Greg Crinklaw
Astronomical Software Developer
Cloudcroft, New Mexico, USA (33N, 106W, 2700m)
SkyTools: http://www.skyhound.com/cs.html
Observing: http://www.skyhound.com/sh/skyhound.html
Comets: http://www.skyhound.com/sh/comets.html
To reply take out your eye
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Date: 28 Sep 2006 21:08:25
From: Dan Krueger
Subject: Re: shuttle orbit
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> Simple: it's done to give childish trolls with no lives and nothing to
> offer the chance to ask stupid questions on SAA, most likely so they can
> start a silly argument or simply insult the first person who takes their
> time to seriously answer the question. I think the latter is sort of a
> power trip: "Hey Mom, see how I made some fool answer my stupid question
> on SAA! For an instant, I almost felt secure in myself."
It goes through huge pieces of oak like it's not there.
Regards, Larry No, I haven't, and I need to know that we spend
all our time doing everything that we can answer the questions,
I am saying our answers must be formulated _within_ the
principles that are supported by evidence; the more the
evidence, the stronger the theory.
But I think you have pretty much answered your own question
Scooter.
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Date: 23 Sep 2006 13:19:28
From: SkySea
Subject: Re: shuttle orbit
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Because the map of the Earth is shown with the equator as the
horizontal plane. If the plane of the shuttle orbit were shown as
horizontal, the equator would be shown as at an angle with repect to
horizontal.
The reason there are several tracks of sine wave is because the earth
has rotated a little bit (about 23 degrees) between each orbit.
It's easier to map (and write software depicting) a stationary Earth
with the tracks passing over it, than a stationary orbit with a
shifting map of the Earth below it.
>"Thomas Mickleman" <TM@tuass.net> wrote:
>Why does the NASA plot in the control room of the orbit look like a sine
>wave ?
=============
- Dale Gombert (SkySea at aol.com)
122.38W, 47.58N, W. Seattle, WA
http://flavorj.com/~skysea
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Date: 23 Sep 2006 20:12:24
From: Thomas Mickleman
Subject: Re: shuttle orbit
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http://spaceflight.nasa.gov/realdata/tracking/index.html
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Date: 24 Sep 2006 16:53:51
From: canopus56
Subject: Re: shuttle orbit
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Greg Crinklaw wrote:
> Awwww... did I stwike a littol nerve Mickie?
> What goes around comes around, even, it seems, on Usenet.
Greg,
Mick (aka Mike, aka MTA, aka TMA, aka ATM, aka Thomas, aka Thomas
Mickelson) first showed up in this newsgroup probably in January 2006
under the handle "EP Guy". Brian Tung covers his posting modus
operandi in Brian's "What is the deal with [insert nut]?" section of
Brian's FAQ at http://astro.isi.edu/reference/faq.html#cranks
In general, Mick is not worth the posting time. You'll recognize the
type if you think back to your elementary school playground - "the
bully". In this case, Mick is a cyber-bully. He asks reasonable
questions to pull responders in, and then does the equivalent of a
school-yard lunch-money mugging.
The best method, like dealing with other types of net cranks and other
versions of immature bullies, is to ignore them till they decide to
grow up.
Regards - Canopus56
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Date: 25 Sep 2006 02:00:31
From: Thomas Mickleman
Subject: Re: shuttle orbit
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"canopus56" <canopus56@yahoo.com > wrote in message
news:1159142031.574294.165070@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> Greg Crinklaw wrote:
>> Awwww... did I stwike a littol nerve Mickie?
>> What goes around comes around, even, it seems, on Usenet.
>
> Greg,
>
> Mick (aka Mike, aka MTA, aka TMA, aka ATM, aka Thomas, aka Thomas
> Mickelson) first showed up in this newsgroup probably in January 2006
> under the handle "EP Guy". Brian Tung covers his posting modus
> operandi in Brian's "What is the deal with [insert nut]?" section of
> Brian's FAQ at http://astro.isi.edu/reference/faq.html#cranks
>
> In general, Mick is not worth the posting time. You'll recognize the
> type if you think back to your elementary school playground - "the
> bully". In this case, Mick is a cyber-bully. He asks reasonable
> questions to pull responders in, and then does the equivalent of a
> school-yard lunch-money mugging.
>
> The best method, like dealing with other types of net cranks and other
> versions of immature bullies, is to ignore them till they decide to
> grow up.
>
> Regards - Canopus56
LOL..take a good look at how many others here don't see it in your small
minded
way. I got my answer without any "school yard mugging". what an ignorant
thing to say.
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Date: 24 Sep 2006 18:44:06
From: Eugene Griessel
Subject: Re: shuttle orbit
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"Thomas Mickleman" <TM@tuass.net > wrote:
>Why does the NASA plot in the control room of the orbit look like a sine
>wave ?
Because the plot is being depicted on a mercator projection which is a
highly unnatural mathematical depiction of the earth. All great
circles (lines showing the shortest distance bewteen two points) on
such a map projection are sine waves (barring the equator and the
lines through the poles). An orbital path is in effect a great circle
- albeit one that continually moves with respect to the earth
underneath it (of course it's the earth that's moving - but it makes
using a map more complicated if it moves). The formula for such a
great circle is fairly simple and reguires only the latitude and
longitude of the start point and the angle of departure.
A sample formula, starting at Cape Canaveral, might be:
ø = ATAN( .6540639 X SIN(-136.5102493 - R))
Where theta will be the latitude and R will be the longitude.
Using the above and plugging in the following sample longitudes:
0 24.234561 N
1 E 23.835503 N
2 E 23.427484 N
3 E 23.010523 N
4 E 22.584651 N
5 E 22.149903 N
6 E 21.706319 N
7 E 21.25395 N
8 E 20.792852 N
9 E 20.323092 N
10 E 19.844743 N
11 E 19.357886 N
12 E 18.862615 N
13 E 18.359031 N
14 E 17.847244 N
15 E 17.327375 N
16 E 16.799556 N
17 E 16.263929 N
18 E 15.720647 N
19 E 15.169873 N
20 E 14.611782 N
we get the latitudes the Great circle will pass through.
Plot these points on a mercator map a and you will see they make a
sine wave.
Eugene L Griessel
Pessimist: When asked to choose between two evils, picks both.
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