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Main
Date: 11 Dec 2006 15:30:07
From: LurfysMa
Subject: Starter scope for 9 year old: StarBlast or SkyQuest?
|
My grandson, age 9, wants a telescope for Christmas. He's kind of a
nerdy kid who gets into something are really spends a lot of time with
it. His folks are involved and will help him. His only problem is that
he can be somewhat impatient and gets frustrated at times.
Anyway, I have read most of the post on this and a couple of other NGs
for the past couple of years on beginner scopes. It seems like either
the Orion StarBlast or one of the Orion SkyQuest scopes will be the
right choice.
Can anyone offer in simple language why they would choose one over the
other?
Then, if it's the SkyQuest, should I get the XT4.5, XT6, or XT8? Price
is not a big concern. If the XT8 is really better for a kid and the
extra power won't just be harder to handle, I'd get the XT8.
Otherwise, one of the smaller ones.
All comments and suggestions appreciated.
I will also get him 1-2 of the books and accessories recommended here.
I see that Orion is offering a Bonus Accessory Pack with the XT6 and
XT8. See
http://www.telescope.com/shopping/product/detailmain.jsp?itemID=238462&itemType=PRODUCT&RS=1&keyword=
and
http://www.telescope.com/shopping/product/detailmain.jsp?itemID=241007&itemType=PRODUCT&iMainCat=4&iSubCat=9&iProductID=241007
Can anyone tell me if I would need anything in addition to whatever is
in that package?
Thanks
--
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Date: 11 Dec 2006 20:42:11
From: Patrick Edward Murray
Subject: Re: Starter scope for 9 year old: StarBlast or SkyQuest?
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I agree with you Alan, go with the intelliscope computer as the young
man will get more use out of it. Setting Circles are really for folks
who want to tinker and waste time and they are great for breeding
frustration.
Ed Murray
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Date: 11 Dec 2006 22:38:06
From: LurfysMa
Subject: Re: Starter scope for 9 year old: StarBlast or SkyQuest?
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On 11 Dec 2006 20:42:11 -0800, "Patrick Edward Murray"
<ed1ward2@verizon.net > wrote:
>I agree with you Alan, go with the intelliscope computer as the young
>man will get more use out of it. Setting Circles are really for folks
>who want to tinker and waste time and they are great for breeding
>frustration.
I'm not sure Alan recommended an Intelliscope telescope. I thought he
recommended the SkyQuest XT6 or XT8. These come in two flavors as I
just discovered as a result of your post.
The "Classic" XT6, $260, can be seen at:
http://www.telescope.com/shopping/product/detailmain.jsp?itemID=238462&itemType=PRODUCT&iMainCat=4&iSubCat=9&iProductID=238462
The "Intelliscope" XT6, $360, can be seen at:
http://www.telescope.com/shopping/product/detailmain.jsp?itemID=239019&itemType=PRODUCT&iMainCat=4&iSubCat=9&iProductID=239019
and there is also an Intelliscope XT6 with "Object Locator" for $480.
I don't quite get from the description what the Intelliscope does for
the extra $100.
The Object Locator seems to provide a lookup list from which thousands
of objects can be selected.
I guess I'll have the guy at the store show me.
--
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Date: 12 Dec 2006 17:10:55
From: Alan French
Subject: Re: Starter scope for 9 year old: StarBlast or SkyQuest?
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"LurfysMa" <invalid@invalid.invalid > wrote in message
news:92jsn2tfbm5v4ngjjr10fr86h0094a9bet@4ax.com...
> On 11 Dec 2006 20:42:11 -0800, "Patrick Edward Murray"
> <ed1ward2@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> >I agree with you Alan, go with the intelliscope computer as the young
> >man will get more use out of it. Setting Circles are really for folks
> >who want to tinker and waste time and they are great for breeding
> >frustration.
>
> I'm not sure Alan recommended an Intelliscope telescope. I thought he
> recommended the SkyQuest XT6 or XT8. These come in two flavors as I
> just discovered as a result of your post.
>
> The "Classic" XT6, $260, can be seen at:
>
>
http://www.telescope.com/shopping/product/detailmain.jsp?itemID=238462&itemType=PRODUCT&iMainCat=4&iSubCat=9&iProductID=238462
>
> The "Intelliscope" XT6, $360, can be seen at:
>
>
http://www.telescope.com/shopping/product/detailmain.jsp?itemID=239019&itemType=PRODUCT&iMainCat=4&iSubCat=9&iProductID=239019
>
> and there is also an Intelliscope XT6 with "Object Locator" for $480.
>
> I don't quite get from the description what the Intelliscope does for
> the extra $100.
>
> The Object Locator seems to provide a lookup list from which thousands
> of objects can be selected.
>
> I guess I'll have the guy at the store show me.
No, I didn't recommend the Intelliscope. It might be worth considering, but
it does add to price and the scope is perfectly usable without it. Now
we'll probably get started on a debate about starhopping versus computer
assisted object location. I'm in the former camp.
The bottom line - you can hardly go wrong with a SkyQuest XT6. If he stays
interested, you can worry about upgrading to a larger, more expensive
telescope. Dudley Observatory awards high school students Rising Star
Internships which include a free 6" Dob, and the kids love them.
Some folks have suggested the smaller XT 4.5. Take a look at both scopes in
the store, and see if you think your grandson can handle the XT 6. If this
isn't a big surprise, you could even take him along. If he can manage it, I
think the XT 6 is the better choice.
Clear skies, Alan
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Date: 11 Dec 2006 19:31:11
From: brucegooglegroups
Subject: Re: Starter scope for 9 year old: StarBlast or SkyQuest?
|
LurfysMa wrote:
> My grandson, age 9, wants a telescope for Christmas. He's kind of a
> nerdy kid who gets into something are really spends a lot of time with
> it. His folks are involved and will help him. His only problem is that
> he can be somewhat impatient and gets frustrated at times.
>
> Anyway, I have read most of the post on this and a couple of other NGs
> for the past couple of years on beginner scopes. It seems like either
> the Orion StarBlast or one of the Orion SkyQuest scopes will be the
> right choice.
>
> Can anyone offer in simple language why they would choose one over the
> other?
>
> Then, if it's the SkyQuest, should I get the XT4.5, XT6, or XT8? Price
> is not a big concern. If the XT8 is really better for a kid and the
> extra power won't just be harder to handle, I'd get the XT8.
> Otherwise, one of the smaller ones.
>
> All comments and suggestions appreciated.
>
> I will also get him 1-2 of the books and accessories recommended here.
>
> I see that Orion is offering a Bonus Accessory Pack with the XT6 and
> XT8. See
>
> http://www.telescope.com/shopping/product/detailmain.jsp?itemID=238462&itemType=PRODUCT&RS=1&keyword=
>
> and
>
> http://www.telescope.com/shopping/product/detailmain.jsp?itemID=241007&itemType=PRODUCT&iMainCat=4&iSubCat=9&iProductID=241007
>
> Can anyone tell me if I would need anything in addition to whatever is
> in that package?
>
> Thanks
>
> --
Hi,
I would suggest a detour and buy your grandson binoculars. There is an
excellent link on skynewsmagazine.com about starting out in astronomy-
10 steps to successful
stargazing:http://skynewsmagazine.com/images/main%20set%20of%20images/10_steps.pdf
You could buy him a telescope in the future. For now, a decent pair of
binoculars mounted on a lightweight tripod is an excellent way to start
backyard astronomy.
Good luck.
Bruce
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Date: 11 Dec 2006 20:40:54
From: LurfysMa
Subject: Re: Starter scope for 9 year old: StarBlast or SkyQuest?
|
On 11 Dec 2006 19:31:11 -0800, "brucegooglegroups"
<brucegooglegroups@hotmail.com > wrote:
>LurfysMa wrote:
>> My grandson, age 9, wants a telescope for Christmas. He's kind of a
>> nerdy kid who gets into something are really spends a lot of time with
>> it. His folks are involved and will help him. His only problem is that
>> he can be somewhat impatient and gets frustrated at times.
>>
>> Anyway, I have read most of the post on this and a couple of other NGs
>> for the past couple of years on beginner scopes. It seems like either
>> the Orion StarBlast or one of the Orion SkyQuest scopes will be the
>> right choice.
>>
>> Can anyone offer in simple language why they would choose one over the
>> other?
>>
>> Then, if it's the SkyQuest, should I get the XT4.5, XT6, or XT8? Price
>> is not a big concern. If the XT8 is really better for a kid and the
>> extra power won't just be harder to handle, I'd get the XT8.
>> Otherwise, one of the smaller ones.
>>
>> All comments and suggestions appreciated.
>>
>> I will also get him 1-2 of the books and accessories recommended here.
>>
>> I see that Orion is offering a Bonus Accessory Pack with the XT6 and
>> XT8. See
>>
>> http://www.telescope.com/shopping/product/detailmain.jsp?itemID=238462&itemType=PRODUCT&RS=1&keyword=
>>
>> and
>>
>> http://www.telescope.com/shopping/product/detailmain.jsp?itemID=241007&itemType=PRODUCT&iMainCat=4&iSubCat=9&iProductID=241007
>>
>> Can anyone tell me if I would need anything in addition to whatever is
>> in that package?
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> --
>
>Hi,
>I would suggest a detour and buy your grandson binoculars. There is an
>excellent link on skynewsmagazine.com about starting out in astronomy-
>10 steps to successful
>stargazing:http://skynewsmagazine.com/images/main%20set%20of%20images/10_steps.pdf
As I was reading old discussion, that was suggested many times. There
seems to be two camps. His folks already have binoculars, so he can
use them.
>You could buy him a telescope in the future. For now, a decent pair of
>binoculars mounted on a lightweight tripod is an excellent way to start
> backyard astronomy.
Would any binoculars compare to the XT6?
--
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Date: 12 Dec 2006 03:44:11
From: Fan (-) (o)
Subject: Re: Starter scope for 9 year old: StarBlast or SkyQuest?
|
--------------E3083BBAF21B27C755B93BA2
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
LurfysMa wrote:
> On 11 Dec 2006 19:31:11 -0800, "brucegooglegroups"
> <brucegooglegroups@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >LurfysMa wrote:
> >> My grandson, age 9, wants a telescope for Christmas. He's kind of a
> >> nerdy kid who gets into something are really spends a lot of time with
> >> it. His folks are involved and will help him. His only problem is that
> >> he can be somewhat impatient and gets frustrated at times.
> >>
> >> Anyway, I have read most of the post on this and a couple of other NGs
> >> for the past couple of years on beginner scopes. It seems like either
> >> the Orion StarBlast or one of the Orion SkyQuest scopes will be the
> >> right choice.
> >>
> >> Can anyone offer in simple language why they would choose one over the
> >> other?
> >>
> >> Then, if it's the SkyQuest, should I get the XT4.5, XT6, or XT8? Price
> >> is not a big concern. If the XT8 is really better for a kid and the
> >> extra power won't just be harder to handle, I'd get the XT8.
> >> Otherwise, one of the smaller ones.
> >>
> >> All comments and suggestions appreciated.
> >>
> >> I will also get him 1-2 of the books and accessories recommended here.
> >>
> >> I see that Orion is offering a Bonus Accessory Pack with the XT6 and
> >> XT8. See
> >>
> >> http://www.telescope.com/shopping/product/detailmain.jsp?itemID=238462&itemType=PRODUCT&RS=1&keyword=
> >>
> >> and
> >>
> >> http://www.telescope.com/shopping/product/detailmain.jsp?itemID=241007&itemType=PRODUCT&iMainCat=4&iSubCat=9&iProductID=241007
> >>
> >> Can anyone tell me if I would need anything in addition to whatever is
> >> in that package?
> >>
> >> Thanks
> >>
> >> --
> >
> >Hi,
> >I would suggest a detour and buy your grandson binoculars. There is an
> >excellent link on skynewsmagazine.com about starting out in astronomy-
> >10 steps to successful
> >stargazing:http://skynewsmagazine.com/images/main%20set%20of%20images/10_steps.pdf
>
> As I was reading old discussion, that was suggested many times. There
> seems to be two camps. His folks already have binoculars, so he can
> use them.
>
> >You could buy him a telescope in the future. For now, a decent pair of
> >binoculars mounted on a lightweight tripod is an excellent way to start
> > backyard astronomy.
>
> Would any binoculars compare to the XT6?
>
> --
Not that he could lift and you could afford!.
The xt6 is about the bottom of the barrel at inflated prices. There
are no other good choices open to the average person. Affordable
decent quality telescopes for the beginner do not exist any more.
They left with affordable health care and jobs. You could just do
nothing and wait until he's 30 and can afford his own scope! By
him some goo astro software or a good book instead. Then get
him to an area club where they do have telescopes he can experince.
Save up and buy him a good used C8 with mount and electric drive
starting at $450 used on Astromart. Thats what I would do -
klm
--------------E3083BBAF21B27C755B93BA2
Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
<!doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0 transitional//en" >
<html >
<p >LurfysMa wrote:
<blockquote TYPE=CITE >On 11 Dec 2006 19:31:11 -0800, "brucegooglegroups"
<br ><brucegooglegroups@hotmail.com> wrote:
<p >>LurfysMa wrote:
<br >>> My grandson, age 9, wants a telescope for Christmas. He's kind of
a
<br >>> nerdy kid who gets into something are really spends a lot of time
with
<br >>> it. His folks are involved and will help him. His only problem is
that
<br >>> he can be somewhat impatient and gets frustrated at times.
<br >>>
<br >>> Anyway, I have read most of the post on this and a couple of other
NGs
<br >>> for the past couple of years on beginner scopes. It seems like either
<br >>> the Orion StarBlast or one of the Orion SkyQuest scopes will be
the
<br >>> right choice.
<br >>>
<br >>> Can anyone offer in simple language why they would choose one over
the
<br >>> other?
<br >>>
<br >>> Then, if it's the SkyQuest, should I get the XT4.5, XT6, or XT8?
Price
<br >>> is not a big concern. If the XT8 is really better for a kid and
the
<br >>> extra power won't just be harder to handle, I'd get the XT8.
<br >>> Otherwise, one of the smaller ones.
<br >>>
<br >>> All comments and suggestions appreciated.
<br >>>
<br >>> I will also get him 1-2 of the books and accessories recommended
here.
<br >>>
<br >>> I see that Orion is offering a Bonus Accessory Pack with the XT6
and
<br >>> XT8. See
<br >>>
<br >>> <a href="http://www.telescope.com/shopping/product/detailmain.jsp?itemID=238462&itemType=PRODUCT&RS=1&keyword=">http://www.telescope.com/shopping/product/detailmain.jsp?itemID=238462&itemType=PRODUCT&RS=1&keyword=</a>
<br >>>
<br >>> and
<br >>>
<br >>> <a href="http://www.telescope.com/shopping/product/detailmain.jsp?itemID=241007&itemType=PRODUCT&iMainCat=4&iSubCat=9&iProductID=241007">http://www.telescope.com/shopping/product/detailmain.jsp?itemID=241007&itemType=PRODUCT&iMainCat=4&iSubCat=9&iProductID=241007</a>
<br >>>
<br >>> Can anyone tell me if I would need anything in addition to whatever
is
<br >>> in that package?
<br >>>
<br >>> Thanks
<br >>>
<br >>> --
<br >>
<br >>Hi,
<br >>I would suggest a detour and buy your grandson binoculars. There is
an
<br >>excellent link on skynewsmagazine.com about starting out in astronomy-
<br >>10 steps to successful
<br >>stargazing:<a href="http://skynewsmagazine.com/images/main%20set%20of%20images/10_steps.pdf">http://skynewsmagazine.com/images/main%20set%20of%20images/10_steps.pdf</a>
<p >As I was reading old discussion, that was suggested many times. There
<br >seems to be two camps. His folks already have binoculars, so he can
<br >use them.
<p >>You could buy him a telescope in the future. For now, a decent pair
of
<br >>binoculars mounted on a lightweight tripod is an excellent way to
start
<br >> backyard astronomy.
<p >Would any binoculars compare to the XT6?
<p >--</blockquote>
Not that he could lift and you could afford!.
<br >The xt6 is about the bottom of the barrel at inflated prices. There
<br >are no other good choices open to the average person. Affordable
<br >decent quality telescopes for the beginner do not exist any more.
<br >They left with affordable health care and jobs. You could just do
<br >nothing and wait until he's 30 and can afford his own scope! By
<br >him some goo astro software or a good book instead. Then get
<br >him to an area club where they do have telescopes he can experince.
<br >Save up and buy him a good used C8 with mount and electric drive
<br >starting at $450 used on Astromart. Thats what I would do -
<p >klm
<br > </html>
--------------E3083BBAF21B27C755B93BA2--
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Date: 12 Dec 2006 16:45:13
From: Joe Bergeron
Subject: Re: Starter scope for 9 year old: StarBlast or SkyQuest?
|
In article <457E79EB.F2ED6F58@pet.net >, Fan <synco@pet.net> wrote:
> Affordable
> decent quality telescopes for the beginner do not exist any more.
Just curious...can you name a few of these fabled telescopes?
--
Joe Bergeron
http://www.joebergeron.com
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Date: 12 Dec 2006 08:12:51
From: Starlord
Subject: Re: Starter scope for 9 year old: StarBlast or SkyQuest?
|
WRONG! You can get a good Dob from Stargazer Steve, he starts with 4.25inch
F9 and goes up from there. I own one of those and it's a good scope, I've
seen his 6inch and it's a good scope too.
--
There are those who believe that life here, began out there, far across the
universe, with tribes of humans, who may have been the forefathers of the
Egyptians, or the Toltechs, or the Mayans. Some believe that they may yet be
brothers of man, who even now fight to survive, somewhere beyond the
heavens.
The Lone Sidewalk Astronomer of Rosamond
Telescope Buyers FAQ
http://home.inreach.com/starlord
Sidewalk Astronomy
www.sidewalkastronomy.info
The Church of Eternity
http://home.inreach.com/starlord/church/Eternity.html
"Fan (-) (o)" <synco@pet.net > wrote in message
news:457E79EB.F2ED6F58@pet.net...
>
>
> Not that he could lift and you could afford!.
|
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Date: 12 Dec 2006 06:27:51
From: LurfysMa
Subject: Re: Starter scope for 9 year old: StarBlast or SkyQuest?
|
On Tue, 12 Dec 2006 03:44:11 -0600, "Fan (-) (o)" <synco@pet.net >
wrote:
>LurfysMa wrote:
>
>> >You could buy him a telescope in the future. For now, a decent pair of
>> >binoculars mounted on a lightweight tripod is an excellent way to start
>> > backyard astronomy.
>>
>> Would any binoculars compare to the XT6?
>>
>> --
>
>Not that he could lift and you could afford!.
It sounds like you agree that binoculars are not a good choice for my
grandson.
>The xt6 is about the bottom of the barrel at inflated prices.
If you are talking about the barrel of telescopes that are at least
adequate for reasonable stargazing, we are in the same barrel. ;-) I
am looking to get him started. That is, an entry level scope. That
would usually be at the bottom of the barrel, no?
Or are you saying that the XT6 is a useless piece of junk?
>There
>are no other good choices open to the average person.
Then I should get the XT6, no?
>Affordable
>decent quality telescopes for the beginner do not exist any more.
>They left with affordable health care and jobs.
Yes, well, I guess we are in the world we are in. That's a different
barrel. I'm just trying to get my grandson a decent telescope, not run
for congress.
>You could just do
>nothing and wait until he's 30 and can afford his own scope!
Then what do I get him for Christmas this year? He asked for a
telescope and my daughter asked me to help. Somehow a card saying
"Merry Christmas, now go buy your own when you are 30" won't go over
too well with anyone. ;-)
>Buy
>him some good astro software or a good book instead.
He already has the books and I do plan to get him some software, but
he asked for a telescope.
>Then get
>him to an area club where they do have telescopes he can experince.
I am not close enough to do that with him.
>Save up and buy him a good used C8 with mount and electric drive
>starting at $450 used on Astromart. Thats what I would do -
Aha. So there are "other good choices open to the average person".
The C8, if I am not mistaken, is on an equitorial mount, whatever that
is, right? This has been suggested to other in the past asking for
similar advice. The responses have almost always been that equitorial
mounts are too difficult for a beginner to manage. What say you?
--
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Date: 12 Dec 2006 16:54:23
From: Joe Bergeron
Subject: Re: Starter scope for 9 year old: StarBlast or SkyQuest?
|
In article <fbdtn2t3bn6ab4m8pci5udh5j55374q0gp@4ax.com >, LurfysMa
<invalid@invalid.invalid > wrote:
> The C8, if I am not mistaken, is on an equitorial mount, whatever that
> is, right? This has been suggested to other in the past asking for
> similar advice. The responses have almost always been that equitorial
> mounts are too difficult for a beginner to manage. What say you?
Alan's advice is good and you should heed it. Trying to locate,
evaluate, and figure out how to operate a used C-8 is not something I
would recommend for a complete beginner, at any age. You would pretty
much be staring at something you don't understand and saying "Well, I
guess that looks okay."
--
Joe Bergeron
http://www.joebergeron.com
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| | | | | |
Date: 12 Dec 2006 09:03:36
From: Shawn
Subject: Re: Starter scope for 9 year old: StarBlast or SkyQuest?
|
LurfysMa wrote:
snip
>
>> Save up and buy him a good used C8 with mount and electric drive
>> starting at $450 used on Astromart. Thats what I would do -
>
> Aha. So there are "other good choices open to the average person".
>
> The C8, if I am not mistaken, is on an equitorial mount, whatever that
> is, right? This has been suggested to other in the past asking for
> similar advice. The responses have almost always been that equitorial
> mounts are too difficult for a beginner to manage. What say you?
The C8 isn't a good beginner scope especially for a 9 year old. Big,
heavy, the narrow field of view makes finding objects hard...
The best telescope is the one that gets used! Every time you get
another piece of advice, filter it through this mantra.
C8: The best telescope is the one that gets used!
XT6: The best telescope is the one that gets used!
XT8: The best telescope is the one that gets used!
24" RCOS in a 12' dome: The best telescope is the one that gets used! ;-)
In recent years I've had four different telescopes ranging from 3.25" to
15". The best is the 3.25" because it's small, light, and sits by my
back door waiting to be used. When I want to take a look, I'm outside
and looking in a flash. The second best is the 15". Despite it's
gargantuan size and weight, it was made to be easy to move and set up.
The Starblast is the kid sized equivalent. If he doesn't use *this*
telescope, astronomy isn't for him at this point. The scope won't hold
him back from getting a good introduction to the hobby. If it sits
unused in a closet for ten years before he really gets enthused, IMHO,
it would still be money well spent.
The best telescope is the one that gets used! ;-)
Shawn
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Date: 12 Dec 2006 04:01:43
From: Alan French
Subject: Re: Starter scope for 9 year old: StarBlast or SkyQuest?
|
"brucegooglegroups" <brucegooglegroups@hotmail.com > wrote in message
news:1165894271.714911.220270@j44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> LurfysMa wrote:
> > My grandson, age 9, wants a telescope for Christmas. He's kind of a
> > nerdy kid who gets into something are really spends a lot of time with
> > it. His folks are involved and will help him. His only problem is that
> > he can be somewhat impatient and gets frustrated at times.
> [SNIP]
>
> Hi,
> I would suggest a detour and buy your grandson binoculars. There is an
> excellent link on skynewsmagazine.com about starting out in astronomy-
> 10 steps to successful
>
stargazing:http://skynewsmagazine.com/images/main%20set%20of%20images/10_ste
ps.pdf
>
> You could buy him a telescope in the future. For now, a decent pair of
> binoculars mounted on a lightweight tripod is an excellent way to start
> backyard astronomy.
>
> Good luck.
> Bruce
Although binoculars are often recommended for budding astronomers, I think
most youngsters would be far more happy with a telescope. The telescope has
more allure, for one thing. Also, in my experience, young people are most
interested in the Moon and planets. Although the Moon is very nice in
binoculars, it is far more interesting through a telescope, and the planets
really require a telescope. Finally, it can be difficult to find a suitable
pair of binoculars for the younger crowd - many of the binoculars that might
be considered good for astronomy do not allow the eyepieces to be set close
enough together for kids.
While there are exceptions, it seems adults are far more aprt to start with
a telescope than binoculars. I think binocular astronomy is far more
appreciated by people who started with a telescope.
Clear skies, Alan
|
| |
Date: 11 Dec 2006 21:47:53
From: Joe S.
Subject: Re: Starter scope for 9 year old: StarBlast or SkyQuest?
|
"LurfysMa" <invalid@invalid.invalid > wrote in message
news:juprn218jnqgs4jfrrptlm9aiv3d6kl0o0@4ax.com...
> My grandson, age 9, wants a telescope for Christmas. He's kind of a
> nerdy kid who gets into something are really spends a lot of time with
> it. His folks are involved and will help him. His only problem is that
> he can be somewhat impatient and gets frustrated at times.
>
> Anyway, I have read most of the post on this and a couple of other NGs
> for the past couple of years on beginner scopes. It seems like either
> the Orion StarBlast or one of the Orion SkyQuest scopes will be the
> right choice.
>
> Can anyone offer in simple language why they would choose one over the
> other?
>
> Then, if it's the SkyQuest, should I get the XT4.5, XT6, or XT8? Price
> is not a big concern. If the XT8 is really better for a kid and the
> extra power won't just be harder to handle, I'd get the XT8.
> Otherwise, one of the smaller ones.
>
> All comments and suggestions appreciated.
>
> I will also get him 1-2 of the books and accessories recommended here.
>
> I see that Orion is offering a Bonus Accessory Pack with the XT6 and
> XT8. See
>
> http://www.telescope.com/shopping/product/detailmain.jsp?itemID=238462&itemType=PRODUCT&RS=1&keyword=
>
> and
>
> http://www.telescope.com/shopping/product/detailmain.jsp?itemID=241007&itemType=PRODUCT&iMainCat=4&iSubCat=9&iProductID=241007
>
> Can anyone tell me if I would need anything in addition to whatever is
> in that package?
>
> Thanks
>
> --
The Orion XT-6 or XT-8. If price is not an object, add the Intelliscope
controller. You do not have to use the controller but it's nice to have.
Because this is a 9-year-old, I'd go with the XT-6 -- it's smaller and
lighter than the 8. I am 6'-1" and bench press 175 -- I can handle the XT-8
with no problem but it's a bit bulky. He will be able to haul the XT-6 by
himself.
The 8 is a more capable scope -- he'll see more detail in the same objects
because of the added aperture but the portability of the smaller scope is
probably the deciding factor here.
I note in one post you indicate that you are going to the Orion store --
that's the way to go. If he starts with the 6 he may want to jump to the
big ones -- 10 or 12 later on -- warning -- the 12 is a monster, as you will
see at the store.
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Date: 11 Dec 2006 20:38:31
From: LurfysMa
Subject: Re: Starter scope for 9 year old: StarBlast or SkyQuest?
|
On Mon, 11 Dec 2006 21:47:53 -0500, "Joe S." <anon@mous.net > wrote:
>
>"LurfysMa" <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
>news:juprn218jnqgs4jfrrptlm9aiv3d6kl0o0@4ax.com...
>> My grandson, age 9, wants a telescope for Christmas. He's kind of a
>> nerdy kid who gets into something are really spends a lot of time with
>> it. His folks are involved and will help him. His only problem is that
>> he can be somewhat impatient and gets frustrated at times.
>>
>> Anyway, I have read most of the post on this and a couple of other NGs
>> for the past couple of years on beginner scopes. It seems like either
>> the Orion StarBlast or one of the Orion SkyQuest scopes will be the
>> right choice.
>>
>> Can anyone offer in simple language why they would choose one over the
>> other?
>>
>> Then, if it's the SkyQuest, should I get the XT4.5, XT6, or XT8? Price
>> is not a big concern. If the XT8 is really better for a kid and the
>> extra power won't just be harder to handle, I'd get the XT8.
>> Otherwise, one of the smaller ones.
>>
>> All comments and suggestions appreciated.
>>
>> I will also get him 1-2 of the books and accessories recommended here.
>>
>> I see that Orion is offering a Bonus Accessory Pack with the XT6 and
>> XT8. See
>>
>> http://www.telescope.com/shopping/product/detailmain.jsp?itemID=238462&itemType=PRODUCT&RS=1&keyword=
>>
>> and
>>
>> http://www.telescope.com/shopping/product/detailmain.jsp?itemID=241007&itemType=PRODUCT&iMainCat=4&iSubCat=9&iProductID=241007
>>
>> Can anyone tell me if I would need anything in addition to whatever is
>> in that package?
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> --
>
>The Orion XT-6 or XT-8. If price is not an object, add the Intelliscope
>controller. You do not have to use the controller but it's nice to have.
Maybe I'll get him that for his birthday or next Christmas.
>Because this is a 9-year-old, I'd go with the XT-6 -- it's smaller and
>lighter than the 8. I am 6'-1" and bench press 175 -- I can handle the XT-8
>with no problem but it's a bit bulky. He will be able to haul the XT-6 by
>himself.
That's a good point.
>The 8 is a more capable scope -- he'll see more detail in the same objects
>because of the added aperture but the portability of the smaller scope is
>probably the deciding factor here.
That sounds right.
>I note in one post you indicate that you are going to the Orion store --
>that's the way to go. If he starts with the 6 he may want to jump to the
>big ones -- 10 or 12 later on -- warning -- the 12 is a monster, as you will
>see at the store.
--
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Date: 12 Dec 2006 00:03:00
From: Alan French
Subject: Re: Starter scope for 9 year old: StarBlast or SkyQuest?
|
"LurfysMa" <invalid@invalid.invalid > wrote in message
news:juprn218jnqgs4jfrrptlm9aiv3d6kl0o0@4ax.com...
> My grandson, age 9, wants a telescope for Christmas. He's kind of a
> nerdy kid who gets into something are really spends a lot of time with
> it. His folks are involved and will help him. His only problem is that
> he can be somewhat impatient and gets frustrated at times.
>
> Anyway, I have read most of the post on this and a couple of other NGs
> for the past couple of years on beginner scopes. It seems like either
> the Orion StarBlast or one of the Orion SkyQuest scopes will be the
> right choice.
>
> Can anyone offer in simple language why they would choose one over the
> other?
>
> Then, if it's the SkyQuest, should I get the XT4.5, XT6, or XT8? Price
> is not a big concern. If the XT8 is really better for a kid and the
> extra power won't just be harder to handle, I'd get the XT8.
> Otherwise, one of the smaller ones.
>
> All comments and suggestions appreciated.
>
> I will also get him 1-2 of the books and accessories recommended here.
>
> I see that Orion is offering a Bonus Accessory Pack with the XT6 and
> XT8. See
>
>
http://www.telescope.com/shopping/product/detailmain.jsp?itemID=238462&itemType=PRODUCT&RS=1&keyword=
>
> and
>
>
http://www.telescope.com/shopping/product/detailmain.jsp?itemID=241007&itemType=PRODUCT&iMainCat=4&iSubCat=9&iProductID=241007
>
> Can anyone tell me if I would need anything in addition to whatever is
> in that package?
>
> Thanks
>
> --
|
| |
Date: 12 Dec 2006 00:03:01
From: Alan French
Subject: Re: Starter scope for 9 year old: StarBlast or SkyQuest?
|
"LurfysMa" <invalid@invalid.invalid > wrote in message
news:juprn218jnqgs4jfrrptlm9aiv3d6kl0o0@4ax.com...
> My grandson, age 9, wants a telescope for Christmas. He's kind of a
> nerdy kid who gets into something are really spends a lot of time with
> it. His folks are involved and will help him. His only problem is that
> he can be somewhat impatient and gets frustrated at times.
>
> Anyway, I have read most of the post on this and a couple of other NGs
> for the past couple of years on beginner scopes. It seems like either
> the Orion StarBlast or one of the Orion SkyQuest scopes will be the
> right choice.
>
> Can anyone offer in simple language why they would choose one over the
> other?
>
> Then, if it's the SkyQuest, should I get the XT4.5, XT6, or XT8? Price
> is not a big concern. If the XT8 is really better for a kid and the
> extra power won't just be harder to handle, I'd get the XT8.
> Otherwise, one of the smaller ones.
>
> All comments and suggestions appreciated.
The Starblast is best for low power, wide field viewing. In my experience,
youngsters want to look at the Moon and planets, first and foremost. Any of
the XTs will provide better lunar and planetary views than the Starblast.
They will also provide better high power views of deep sky objects.
If your grandson is really interested, I'd get the 6" StarQuest at a
minimum. If he can handle the extra weight, an 8" is a significant
telescope, and, I think, a worthwhile jump from a 6". Under steady skies,
an 8" is a serious planetary scope, and will pull in more deep sky objects
than a 6". It could keep him happy for many years. Having said that, even
the 6" could provide years of enjoyment.
Clear skies, Alan
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Date: 11 Dec 2006 16:48:13
From: LurfysMa
Subject: Re: Starter scope for 9 year old: StarBlast or SkyQuest?
|
On Tue, 12 Dec 2006 00:03:01 GMT, "Alan French"
<adfrenchremoveallthis@nycap.rr.com > wrote:
>"LurfysMa" <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
>news:juprn218jnqgs4jfrrptlm9aiv3d6kl0o0@4ax.com...
>> My grandson, age 9, wants a telescope for Christmas. He's kind of a
>> nerdy kid who gets into something are really spends a lot of time with
>> it. His folks are involved and will help him. His only problem is that
>> he can be somewhat impatient and gets frustrated at times.
>>
>> Anyway, I have read most of the post on this and a couple of other NGs
>> for the past couple of years on beginner scopes. It seems like either
>> the Orion StarBlast or one of the Orion SkyQuest scopes will be the
>> right choice.
>>
>> Can anyone offer in simple language why they would choose one over the
>> other?
>>
>> Then, if it's the SkyQuest, should I get the XT4.5, XT6, or XT8? Price
>> is not a big concern. If the XT8 is really better for a kid and the
>> extra power won't just be harder to handle, I'd get the XT8.
>> Otherwise, one of the smaller ones.
>>
>> All comments and suggestions appreciated.
>
>The Starblast is best for low power, wide field viewing. In my experience,
>youngsters want to look at the Moon and planets, first and foremost.
At the moment, he is fascinated by the solar system. He spends hours
drawing the planetary orbits. So I guess he fits your experience.
>Any of
>the XTs will provide better lunar and planetary views than the Starblast.
>They will also provide better high power views of deep sky objects.
>
>If your grandson is really interested, I'd get the 6" StarQuest at a
>minimum. If he can handle the extra weight, an 8" is a significant
>telescope, and, I think, a worthwhile jump from a 6". Under steady skies,
>an 8" is a serious planetary scope, and will pull in more deep sky objects
>than a 6". It could keep him happy for many years. Having said that, even
>the 6" could provide years of enjoyment.
Can you say what specifically he would be able to see with the 8" that
he could not with the 6"? Rings of Saturn? Martian "canals"? Moons
other than Earth's? Pluto? The great spot on Jupiter?
--
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Date: 12 Dec 2006 01:03:14
From: Alan French
Subject: Re: Starter scope for 9 year old: StarBlast or SkyQuest?
|
> Can you say what specifically he would be able to see with the 8" that
> he could not with the 6"? Rings of Saturn? Martian "canals"? Moons
> other than Earth's? Pluto? The great spot on Jupiter?
The rings of Saturn can be seen with almost any telescope. The view of the
rings will be a bit better in an 8" than in a 6", and an 8" should reveal a
couple of additional moons around Saturn. The inner, dusky Crepe ring
should be easier to spot in the larger aperture. Detail on Saturn itself is
rather subtle, and should be more easily revealed in an 8".
Jupiter and Mars would benefit the most from the extra aperture. Jupiter
has a lot of detail in its belts and bands, and this detail will be more
obvious in an 8", and some detail may be visible in an 8" that won't be seen
in a 6". Unfortunately, Mars is a difficult object. At the end of 2007 it
will only be 15.6" in diameter, as compared to about 24" when closest to
Earth. With patience, a fair amount of detail is visilbe on Mars, and an 8"
would improve the chances of catching it.
Pluto is possible in either scope, but would be easier to spot in an 8".
You need a good finder chart to distinquish it from the stars, and
observations on a couple of nights to reveal its motion help insure it was
found.
Clear skies, Alan
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Date: 11 Dec 2006 17:26:17
From: LurfysMa
Subject: Re: Starter scope for 9 year old: StarBlast or SkyQuest?
|
On Tue, 12 Dec 2006 01:03:14 GMT, "Alan French"
<adfrenchremoveallthis@nycap.rr.com > wrote:
>> Can you say what specifically he would be able to see with the 8" that
>> he could not with the 6"? Rings of Saturn? Martian "canals"? Moons
>> other than Earth's? Pluto? The great spot on Jupiter?
>
>The rings of Saturn can be seen with almost any telescope. The view of the
>rings will be a bit better in an 8" than in a 6", and an 8" should reveal a
>couple of additional moons around Saturn. The inner, dusky Crepe ring
>should be easier to spot in the larger aperture. Detail on Saturn itself is
>rather subtle, and should be more easily revealed in an 8".
>
>Jupiter and Mars would benefit the most from the extra aperture. Jupiter
>has a lot of detail in its belts and bands, and this detail will be more
>obvious in an 8", and some detail may be visible in an 8" that won't be seen
>in a 6". Unfortunately, Mars is a difficult object. At the end of 2007 it
>will only be 15.6" in diameter, as compared to about 24" when closest to
>Earth. With patience, a fair amount of detail is visilbe on Mars, and an 8"
>would improve the chances of catching it.
>
>Pluto is possible in either scope, but would be easier to spot in an 8".
>You need a good finder chart to distinquish it from the stars, and
>observations on a couple of nights to reveal its motion help insure it was
>found.
Thanks for the help. Very much appreciated.
As it turns out, I am only a few miles from the Orion retail outlet in
Cupertino. I will shuffle on down there this week and see what they
have.
I think you have basically sold me on the SkyQuest in at least the 6".
I may reserve the 8" (or even 10") for a later purchase if he remains
serious.
--
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Date: 12 Dec 2006 01:54:53
From: Alan French
Subject: Re: Starter scope for 9 year old: StarBlast or SkyQuest?
|
"LurfysMa" <invalid@invalid.invalid > wrote in message
news:u41sn2p2f4rrvahcm6pblk8u2g55v2bogl@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 12 Dec 2006 01:03:14 GMT, "Alan French"
> <adfrenchremoveallthis@nycap.rr.com> wrote:
>
> >> Can you say what specifically he would be able to see with the 8" that
> >> he could not with the 6"? Rings of Saturn? Martian "canals"? Moons
> >> other than Earth's? Pluto? The great spot on Jupiter?
> >
> >The rings of Saturn can be seen with almost any telescope. The view of
the
> >rings will be a bit better in an 8" than in a 6", and an 8" should reveal
a
> >couple of additional moons around Saturn. The inner, dusky Crepe ring
> >should be easier to spot in the larger aperture. Detail on Saturn itself
is
> >rather subtle, and should be more easily revealed in an 8".
> >
> >Jupiter and Mars would benefit the most from the extra aperture. Jupiter
> >has a lot of detail in its belts and bands, and this detail will be more
> >obvious in an 8", and some detail may be visible in an 8" that won't be
seen
> >in a 6". Unfortunately, Mars is a difficult object. At the end of 2007
it
> >will only be 15.6" in diameter, as compared to about 24" when closest to
> >Earth. With patience, a fair amount of detail is visilbe on Mars, and an
8"
> >would improve the chances of catching it.
> >
> >Pluto is possible in either scope, but would be easier to spot in an 8".
> >You need a good finder chart to distinquish it from the stars, and
> >observations on a couple of nights to reveal its motion help insure it
was
> >found.
>
> Thanks for the help. Very much appreciated.
>
> As it turns out, I am only a few miles from the Orion retail outlet in
> Cupertino. I will shuffle on down there this week and see what they
> have.
>
> I think you have basically sold me on the SkyQuest in at least the 6".
> I may reserve the 8" (or even 10") for a later purchase if he remains
> serious.
Even the 6" is a very capable scope, and probably easier for most 9 year
olds to handle. If he keeps his interest, he could upgrade at a later date.
With reasonable care, a used SkyQuest should not be hard to sell.
It is nice to be able to see them in person.
Good luck, and clear skies, Alan
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Date: 12 Dec 2006 00:08:22
From: Alan French
Subject: Re: Starter scope for 9 year old: StarBlast or SkyQuest?
|
"Alan French" <adfrenchremoveallthis@nycap.rr.com > wrote in message
news:Vkmfh.2714$nq5.1559@twister.nyroc.rr.com...
> [SNIP]
> If your grandson is really interested, I'd get the 6" StarQuest at a
> minimum. If he can handle the extra weight, an 8" is a significant
> telescope, and, I think, a worthwhile jump from a 6". Under steady skies,
> an 8" is a serious planetary scope, and will pull in more deep sky objects
> than a 6". It could keep him happy for many years. Having said that,
even
> the 6" could provide years of enjoyment.
>
> Clear skies, Alan
Tough day. That's 6" SkyQuest!
Clear skies, Alan
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Date: 11 Dec 2006 16:48:49
From: LurfysMa
Subject: Re: Starter scope for 9 year old: StarBlast or SkyQuest?
|
On Tue, 12 Dec 2006 00:08:22 GMT, "Alan French"
<adfrenchremoveallthis@nycap.rr.com > wrote:
>
>"Alan French" <adfrenchremoveallthis@nycap.rr.com> wrote in message
>news:Vkmfh.2714$nq5.1559@twister.nyroc.rr.com...
>> [SNIP]
>> If your grandson is really interested, I'd get the 6" StarQuest at a
>> minimum. If he can handle the extra weight, an 8" is a significant
>> telescope, and, I think, a worthwhile jump from a 6". Under steady skies,
>> an 8" is a serious planetary scope, and will pull in more deep sky objects
>> than a 6". It could keep him happy for many years. Having said that,
>even
>> the 6" could provide years of enjoyment.
>>
>> Clear skies, Alan
>
>Tough day. That's 6" SkyQuest!
I made that same mistake myself several times. ;-)
--
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Date: 11 Dec 2006 15:35:25
From: LurfysMa
Subject: Re: Starter scope for 9 year old: StarBlast or SkyQuest?
|
On Mon, 11 Dec 2006 15:30:07 -0800, LurfysMa <invalid@invalid.invalid >
wrote:
>My grandson, age 9, wants a telescope for Christmas. He's kind of a
>nerdy kid who gets into something are really spends a lot of time with
>it. His folks are involved and will help him. His only problem is that
>he can be somewhat impatient and gets frustrated at times.
>
>Anyway, I have read most of the post on this and a couple of other NGs
>for the past couple of years on beginner scopes. It seems like either
>the Orion StarBlast or one of the Orion SkyQuest scopes will be the
>right choice.
>
>Can anyone offer in simple language why they would choose one over the
>other?
>
>Then, if it's the SkyQuest, should I get the XT4.5, XT6, or XT8? Price
>is not a big concern. If the XT8 is really better for a kid and the
>extra power won't just be harder to handle, I'd get the XT8.
>Otherwise, one of the smaller ones.
>
>All comments and suggestions appreciated.
>
>I will also get him 1-2 of the books and accessories recommended here.
>
>I see that Orion is offering a Bonus Accessory Pack with the XT6 and
>XT8. See
>
>http://www.telescope.com/shopping/product/detailmain.jsp?itemID=238462&itemType=PRODUCT&RS=1&keyword=
>
>and
>
>http://www.telescope.com/shopping/product/detailmain.jsp?itemID=241007&itemType=PRODUCT&iMainCat=4&iSubCat=9&iProductID=241007
>
>Can anyone tell me if I would need anything in addition to whatever is
>in that package?
I should have mentioned that the Bonus Pack includes a 6x30
right-angle finder scope, LaserMate collimator and DeepMap star chart.
Thanks
--
|
| |
Date: 12 Dec 2006 08:21:16
From:
Subject: Re: Starter scope for 9 year old: StarBlast or SkyQuest?
|
LurfysMa wrote:
> I guess this has both advantages and disadvantages. If he sees it as
> more "friendly" (less daunting), he might be more drawn to it. But if
> he sees it as a toy, he might not take it seriously.
>
> On the other hand, some kids get a charge out of being given a "grown
> up" gift. Plus, he's 9 now, he'll be 10 next year and so on.
Yup, that's it in a nutshell. What can I say -- you know him and I
don't.
> But what do you mean by "drive it". I was getting the impression that
> operating the XT6 was about as easy as the XT4.5. Do you disagree?
No, if anything, the XT6 is actually easier to drive than the XT4.5 --
assuming you can get to the eyepiece. Which he probably can,
if he's big for his age.
It's a paradoxical feature of the Dobsonian design that the bigger
the scope, the easier it is to move around. That's because the
whole thing works on friction, and with a really light scope, there
isn't enough friction to hold it steady. The XT4.5 solves that problem
with a spring, but the spring creates problems of its own.
By the same argument, the XT8 is (slightly) easier to use
than the XT6. The only advantages of the XT6 over the XT8
are portability and cost.
- Tony Flanders
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Date: 12 Dec 2006 07:16:13
From: Darian
Subject: Re: Starter scope for 9 year old: StarBlast or SkyQuest?
|
LurfysMa wrote:
> On Tue, 12 Dec 2006 03:44:11 -0600, "Fan (-) (o)" <synco@pet.net>
> wrote:
>
> >LurfysMa wrote:
> >
> >> >You could buy him a telescope in the future. For now, a decent pair of
> >> >binoculars mounted on a lightweight tripod is an excellent way to start
> >> > backyard astronomy.
> >>
> >> Would any binoculars compare to the XT6?
> >>
> >> --
> >
> >Not that he could lift and you could afford!.
>
> It sounds like you agree that binoculars are not a good choice for my
> grandson.
>
> >The xt6 is about the bottom of the barrel at inflated prices.
>
> If you are talking about the barrel of telescopes that are at least
> adequate for reasonable stargazing, we are in the same barrel. ;-) I
> am looking to get him started. That is, an entry level scope. That
> would usually be at the bottom of the barrel, no?
>
> Or are you saying that the XT6 is a useless piece of junk?
>
> >There
> >are no other good choices open to the average person.
>
> Then I should get the XT6, no?
>
> >Affordable
> >decent quality telescopes for the beginner do not exist any more.
> >They left with affordable health care and jobs.
>
> Yes, well, I guess we are in the world we are in. That's a different
> barrel. I'm just trying to get my grandson a decent telescope, not run
> for congress.
>
> >You could just do
> >nothing and wait until he's 30 and can afford his own scope!
>
> Then what do I get him for Christmas this year? He asked for a
> telescope and my daughter asked me to help. Somehow a card saying
> "Merry Christmas, now go buy your own when you are 30" won't go over
> too well with anyone. ;-)
>
> >Buy
> >him some good astro software or a good book instead.
>
> He already has the books and I do plan to get him some software, but
> he asked for a telescope.
>
> >Then get
> >him to an area club where they do have telescopes he can experince.
>
> I am not close enough to do that with him.
>
> >Save up and buy him a good used C8 with mount and electric drive
> >starting at $450 used on Astromart. Thats what I would do -
>
> Aha. So there are "other good choices open to the average person".
>
> The C8, if I am not mistaken, is on an equitorial mount, whatever that
> is, right? This has been suggested to other in the past asking for
> similar advice. The responses have almost always been that equitorial
> mounts are too difficult for a beginner to manage. What say you?
>
> --
I'd recommend the XT 4.5 for a child. If he was in high school, I'd say
go with the XT6, but I think the 6" is just too large and cumbersome
for a child in grammar school. It may be awkward for him to set up and
be somewhat frustrating. The little 4.5 will be easy for him to set up
and will show him craters on the moon, rings of Saturn, the ice caps on
Mars at opposition, etc.
Actually, a good quality refractor(80mm?) on an alt-az, of comparable
price to the XT 4.5 might appeal to him more and would allow daytime
use for terrestial objects, which kids find appealing. Orion has one
for the same price as the XT 4.5. I'd give it some consideration. He
could look at birds or far off scenery, all with an erect view. I
really think a child would find this more appealing than just a
telescope primarily for nighttime use, IMHO.
|
| | |
Date: 12 Dec 2006 08:19:29
From: LurfysMa
Subject: Re: Starter scope for 9 year old: StarBlast or SkyQuest?
|
On 12 Dec 2006 07:16:13 -0800, "Darian" <darian.rachal@gmail.com >
wrote:
>> >Save up and buy him a good used C8 with mount and electric drive
>> >starting at $450 used on Astromart. Thats what I would do -
>>
>> The C8, if I am not mistaken, is on an equitorial mount, whatever that
>> is, right? This has been suggested to other in the past asking for
>> similar advice. The responses have almost always been that equitorial
>> mounts are too difficult for a beginner to manage. What say you?
>
>I'd recommend the XT 4.5 for a child. If he was in high school, I'd say
>go with the XT6, but I think the 6" is just too large and cumbersome
>for a child in grammar school. It may be awkward for him to set up and
>be somewhat frustrating. The little 4.5 will be easy for him to set up
>and will show him craters on the moon, rings of Saturn, the ice caps on
>Mars at opposition, etc.
In that case, maybe the StarBlast would be an even better choice? It's
supposedly even easier to use and it's cuter ;-)
>Actually, a good quality refractor(80mm?) on an alt-az, of comparable
>price to the XT 4.5 might appeal to him more and would allow daytime
>use for terrestial objects, which kids find appealing. Orion has one
>for the same price as the XT 4.5. I'd give it some consideration. He
>could look at birds or far off scenery, all with an erect view. I
>really think a child would find this more appealing than just a
>telescope primarily for nighttime use, IMHO.
The option of daytime viewing could be a factor, but I wouldn't want
to sacrifice nighttime stargazing. He is fascinated by the solar
system at the moment and he asked for a telescope. My guess is he
would use it for looking at flora and fauna if he could, but the
purpose is the planets and stars.
How does an 80-mm (3.1") refractor compare to a 4.5" (114 mm)
reflector as far as image quality?
If there's a refractor that's comparable to the reflectors (image
quality, ease of use, etc.), the day time option would seem to make
the refractor the choice.
On the Orion site, I see many refractors:
The Orion Starseeker 80 Go To, $330, 11 lbs, has a keypad that can be
used to locate objects via a motorized mount.
The Orion Starseeker 100 Go To, $430, 13 lbs, is similar.
How do these compare with the XT4.5 or XT6?
Why are they so much lighter?
Geez, Louise. I thought I had it narrowed down to StarBlast, XT4.5, or
XT8. Now you've opened up a whole bunch of refractors to research. I
didn't want this to turn into a career! (sigh)
--
|
| | | |
Date: 12 Dec 2006 09:55:12
From: Shawn
Subject: Re: Starter scope for 9 year old: StarBlast or SkyQuest?
|
LurfysMa wrote:
> On 12 Dec 2006 07:16:13 -0800, "Darian" <darian.rachal@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>>>> Save up and buy him a good used C8 with mount and electric drive
>>>> starting at $450 used on Astromart. Thats what I would do -
>>> The C8, if I am not mistaken, is on an equitorial mount, whatever that
>>> is, right? This has been suggested to other in the past asking for
>>> similar advice. The responses have almost always been that equitorial
>>> mounts are too difficult for a beginner to manage. What say you?
>> I'd recommend the XT 4.5 for a child. If he was in high school, I'd say
>> go with the XT6, but I think the 6" is just too large and cumbersome
>> for a child in grammar school. It may be awkward for him to set up and
>> be somewhat frustrating. The little 4.5 will be easy for him to set up
>> and will show him craters on the moon, rings of Saturn, the ice caps on
>> Mars at opposition, etc.
>
> In that case, maybe the StarBlast would be an even better choice? It's
> supposedly even easier to use and it's cuter ;-)
>
>> Actually, a good quality refractor(80mm?) on an alt-az, of comparable
>> price to the XT 4.5 might appeal to him more and would allow daytime
>> use for terrestial objects, which kids find appealing. Orion has one
>> for the same price as the XT 4.5. I'd give it some consideration. He
>> could look at birds or far off scenery, all with an erect view. I
>> really think a child would find this more appealing than just a
>> telescope primarily for nighttime use, IMHO.
>
> The option of daytime viewing could be a factor, but I wouldn't want
> to sacrifice nighttime stargazing. He is fascinated by the solar
> system at the moment and he asked for a telescope. My guess is he
> would use it for looking at flora and fauna if he could, but the
> purpose is the planets and stars.
>
> How does an 80-mm (3.1") refractor compare to a 4.5" (114 mm)
> reflector as far as image quality?
>
> If there's a refractor that's comparable to the reflectors (image
> quality, ease of use, etc.), the day time option would seem to make
> the refractor the choice.
>
> On the Orion site, I see many refractors:
>
> The Orion Starseeker 80 Go To, $330, 11 lbs, has a keypad that can be
> used to locate objects via a motorized mount.
>
> The Orion Starseeker 100 Go To, $430, 13 lbs, is similar.
>
> How do these compare with the XT4.5 or XT6?
>
> Why are they so much lighter?
>
> Geez, Louise. I thought I had it narrowed down to StarBlast, XT4.5, or
> XT8. Now you've opened up a whole bunch of refractors to research. I
> didn't want this to turn into a career! (sigh)
>
Nah, it's not so hard. If it says "short tube" or "f5" or "f6" or
close, or looks kinda short and stubby, consider it. These scopes have
a "fast" focal length. What that means for your grandson is that the
field of view will be wide, and he'll be able to easily find objects.
The downside (there always is one, of course) is that he can't get to as
high a magnification for looking at the moon or planets, which is good!
Because he won't run into the limitations of atmospheric turbulence
which usually limit the magnification of even the best scopes (rather
than optical quality).
Also, such scopes tend to be lighter, smaller and more user friendly.
On Orion's website check out:
http://www.telescope.com/shopping/product/detailmain.jsp?itemID=448&itemType=PRODUCT&RS=1&keyword=
Shawn
|
| |
Date: 12 Dec 2006 06:27:24
From: brucegooglegroups
Subject: Re: Starter scope for 9 year old: StarBlast or SkyQuest?
|
tony_flanders@yahoo.com wrote:
> LurfysMa wrote:
>
> > My grandson, age 9, wants a telescope for Christmas...
> > It seems like either the Orion StarBlast or one of the Orion SkyQuest
> > scopes will be the right choice.
> >
> > Can anyone offer in simple language why they would choose one over the
> > other?
>
> I don't disagree with anything Alan has said, but I'd like to offer an
> alternate
> perspective.
>
> First of all, a word on the telescopes themselves. The SkyQuest XT6 and
> XT8
> are very similar to each other -- and, for that matter, to all other
> Dobsonian
>
> unquestionably worth spending the extra $30 to get the huge extra
> optical power of the XT6. But don't underestimate the convenience and
> approachability of the XT4.5, or its immense "cute factor." And though
> no 4.5-inch scope can match the views of a 6-inch scope, let alone an
> 8-inch scope, this is still an extremely capable little telescope.
>
> Finally, the StarBlast is yet another huge jump up in cute factor. My
> daughter (then 10) insisted that I buy this telescope, and she still
> considers it to be hers, though I put in far more hours on it than she
> does. On the downside, as Alan says, its planetary views are clearly
> inferior to those of the XT4.5 as long as you use the stock eyepieces
> that come with the scope. And even if you do buy supplementary
> eyepieces, it's a real pain to focus at the high magnifications
> required
> to get good views of the planets.
>
> To make this scope really useable, you either need to custom-build
> a stand for it, or you have to find a good, *solid* table to put it on.
> But once you've done that, it's the most kid-friendly scope of all.
> Among other things, the red-dot finder that it's supplied with is much,
> much easier for most kids (and beginner adults) to use than the
> finderscopes provided with the XT series. And its truly immense
> field of view (the flip side of low magnification) makes it easy to
> find things in this scope.
>
> All of these comments will be most meaningful when you actually
> see the telescopes in the flesh. So keep them in mind when
> you're browsing the Orion store.
>
> - Tony Flanders
>While there are exceptions, it seems adults are far more aprt to start with
>a telescope than binoculars. I think binocular astronomy is far more
>appreciated by people who started with a telescope.
Hi,
I started with a telescope, and greatly appreciate views offered by
binoculars. But I started back yard star gazing as an adult, so I would
agree with Allen that a beginners scope for a child is the way to go.
I own an XT 4.5 and it is very portable. And I agree with Tony that it
is " an extremely capable scope." It is about 17 pounds and can be
placed on top of a milk carton for better viewing.
I would suggest reading the starter scope reviews in Sky and Telescope
from a year ago which rates the xt4.5 on the top of the list.
Clear Skies.
Bruce
|
| |
Date: 12 Dec 2006 06:01:24
From:
Subject: Re: Starter scope for 9 year old: StarBlast or SkyQuest?
|
LurfysMa wrote:
> My grandson, age 9, wants a telescope for Christmas...
> It seems like either the Orion StarBlast or one of the Orion SkyQuest
> scopes will be the right choice.
>
> Can anyone offer in simple language why they would choose one over the
> other?
I don't disagree with anything Alan has said, but I'd like to offer an
alternate
perspective.
First of all, a word on the telescopes themselves. The SkyQuest XT6 and
XT8
are very similar to each other -- and, for that matter, to all other
Dobsonian
telescopes of this size. It's a tried-and-true design, immensely
popular, and
for good reasons. Dobsonians are easy to use (especially easy to
*learn* to
use) and provide unbelievably good value per dollar.
If anything, the XT6 (and most other commercial 6-inch Dobs) are *too*
much
like the XT8. They're basically the same physical size -- determined by
getting
the eyepiece high enough for an adult to use. And though the XT6 is
lighter,
it's not all *that* much lighter. Still a serious load even for an
adult.
Despite the similarity in names, the XT4.5 is a completely different
beast.
It's a genuine kid-sized scope, and kids perceive it that way. It's
much,
much smaller than the XT6, and just half the weight. Even a small child
can *easily* carry it and "drive" it. If price is the only issue, then
it's
unquestionably worth spending the extra $30 to get the huge extra
optical power of the XT6. But don't underestimate the convenience and
approachability of the XT4.5, or its immense "cute factor." And though
no 4.5-inch scope can match the views of a 6-inch scope, let alone an
8-inch scope, this is still an extremely capable little telescope.
Finally, the StarBlast is yet another huge jump up in cute factor. My
daughter (then 10) insisted that I buy this telescope, and she still
considers it to be hers, though I put in far more hours on it than she
does. On the downside, as Alan says, its planetary views are clearly
inferior to those of the XT4.5 as long as you use the stock eyepieces
that come with the scope. And even if you do buy supplementary
eyepieces, it's a real pain to focus at the high magnifications
required
to get good views of the planets.
To make this scope really useable, you either need to custom-build
a stand for it, or you have to find a good, *solid* table to put it on.
But once you've done that, it's the most kid-friendly scope of all.
Among other things, the red-dot finder that it's supplied with is much,
much easier for most kids (and beginner adults) to use than the
finderscopes provided with the XT series. And its truly immense
field of view (the flip side of low magnification) makes it easy to
find things in this scope.
All of these comments will be most meaningful when you actually
see the telescopes in the flesh. So keep them in mind when
you're browsing the Orion store.
- Tony Flanders
|
| | |
Date: 12 Dec 2006 07:10:32
From: LurfysMa
Subject: Re: Starter scope for 9 year old: StarBlast or SkyQuest?
|
On 12 Dec 2006 06:01:24 -0800, tony_flanders@yahoo.com wrote:
>LurfysMa wrote:
>
>> My grandson, age 9, wants a telescope for Christmas...
>> It seems like either the Orion StarBlast or one of the Orion SkyQuest
>> scopes will be the right choice.
>>
>> Can anyone offer in simple language why they would choose one over the
>> other?
>
>I don't disagree with anything Alan has said, but I'd like to offer an
>alternate
>perspective.
>
>First of all, a word on the telescopes themselves. The SkyQuest XT6 and
>XT8
>are very similar to each other -- and, for that matter, to all other
>Dobsonian
>telescopes of this size. It's a tried-and-true design, immensely
>popular, and
>for good reasons. Dobsonians are easy to use (especially easy to
>*learn* to
>use) and provide unbelievably good value per dollar.
These are all strong reasons (to me) for choosing the XT6.
>If anything, the XT6 (and most other commercial 6-inch Dobs) are *too*
>much
>like the XT8. They're basically the same physical size -- determined by
>getting
>the eyepiece high enough for an adult to use. And though the XT6 is
>lighter,
>it's not all *that* much lighter. Still a serious load even for an
>adult.
According to the Orion website, the weights are:
24 lbs StarBlast
18 lbs SkyQuest XT4.5
34 lbs SkyQuest XT6
41 lbs SkyQuest XT8
>Despite the similarity in names, the XT4.5 is a completely different
>beast.
>It's a genuine kid-sized scope, and kids perceive it that way.
Hmmm... That's a good point. How will he perceive it?
I guess this has both advantages and disadvantages. If he sees it as
more "friendly" (less daunting), he might be more drawn to it. But if
he sees it as a toy, he might not take it seriously.
On the other hand, some kids get a charge out of being given a "grown
up" gift. Plus, he's 9 now, he'll be 10 next year and so on.
If it weren't for Christmas, I would take him to the store and let him
pick it himself. I'll ask the store if we can trade up in January? If
so, I could get the StarBlast and then go to the store after Christmas
and see if he wants something else.
Nothing is easy. (sigh)
>It's
>much,
>much smaller than the XT6, and just half the weight. Even a small child
>can *easily* carry it and "drive" it.
I think my grandson will have adult help getting it set up, especially
if they go into the country to avoid light pollution. And he's a
fairly large boy and growing. I think even 41 pounds is not a
deterrent.
But what do you mean by "drive it". I was getting the impression that
operating the XT6 was about as easy as the XT4.5. Do you disagree?
I am also looking into the IntelliScope and maybe the Object Locator.
With those on board, would you still say that the XT4.5 or StarBlast
are easier to drive?
>If price is the only issue, then
>it's
>unquestionably worth spending the extra $30 to get the huge extra
>optical power of the XT6. But don't underestimate the convenience and
>approachability of the XT4.5, or its immense "cute factor." And though
>no 4.5-inch scope can match the views of a 6-inch scope, let alone an
>8-inch scope, this is still an extremely capable little telescope.
Ok
>Finally, the StarBlast is yet another huge jump up in cute factor.
This is a boy and oblivious to cute.
>My
>daughter (then 10) insisted that I buy this telescope, and she still
>considers it to be hers, though I put in far more hours on it than she
>does. On the downside, as Alan says, its planetary views are clearly
>inferior to those of the XT4.5 as long as you use the stock eyepieces
>that come with the scope. And even if you do buy supplementary
>eyepieces, it's a real pain to focus at the high magnifications
>required
>to get good views of the planets.
>
>To make this scope really useable, you either need to custom-build
>a stand for it, or you have to find a good, *solid* table to put it on.
>But once you've done that, it's the most kid-friendly scope of all.
>Among other things, the red-dot finder that it's supplied with is much,
>much easier for most kids (and beginner adults) to use than the
>finderscopes provided with the XT series. And its truly immense
>field of view (the flip side of low magnification) makes it easy to
>find things in this scope.
Maybe the best combination is the XT6 IntelliScope, possibly with
Object Finder.
>All of these comments will be most meaningful when you actually
>see the telescopes in the flesh. So keep them in mind when
>you're browsing the Orion store.
Yep. I gotta lay hands on these gizmos. Can't order them from a web
site.
Thanks for the thoughtful comments.
--
|
| | | |
Date: 12 Dec 2006 09:13:21
From: Shawn
Subject: Re: Starter scope for 9 year old: StarBlast or SkyQuest?
|
LurfysMa wrote:
> On 12 Dec 2006 06:01:24 -0800, tony_flanders@yahoo.com wrote:
>
>> LurfysMa wrote:
>>
>>> My grandson, age 9, wants a telescope for Christmas...
>>> It seems like either the Orion StarBlast or one of the Orion SkyQuest
>>> scopes will be the right choice.
>>>
>>> Can anyone offer in simple language why they would choose one over the
>>> other?
>> I don't disagree with anything Alan has said, but I'd like to offer an
>> alternate
>> perspective.
>>
>> First of all, a word on the telescopes themselves. The SkyQuest XT6 and
>> XT8
>> are very similar to each other -- and, for that matter, to all other
>> Dobsonian
>> telescopes of this size. It's a tried-and-true design, immensely
>> popular, and
>> for good reasons. Dobsonians are easy to use (especially easy to
>> *learn* to
>> use) and provide unbelievably good value per dollar.
>
> These are all strong reasons (to me) for choosing the XT6.
>
>> If anything, the XT6 (and most other commercial 6-inch Dobs) are *too*
>> much
>> like the XT8. They're basically the same physical size -- determined by
>> getting
>> the eyepiece high enough for an adult to use. And though the XT6 is
>> lighter,
>> it's not all *that* much lighter. Still a serious load even for an
>> adult.
>
> According to the Orion website, the weights are:
>
> 24 lbs StarBlast
13 lbs! Re check the site! http://tinyurl.com/7zkdp
Perhaps you saw the weight of the Starblast EQ at nearly 25 lbs.
Different beast.
Shawn
|
| |
Date: 12 Dec 2006 21:58:01
From: Patrick Edward Murray
Subject: Re: Starter scope for 9 year old: StarBlast or SkyQuest?
|
Maybe I wasn't concise enough. The 'scopes are called Skyquest. They
are called "Intelliscopes" when they are mated with the Intelliscope
Object Locator and the associated hardware which is actually a small
computer that can calculate where an object, star , planet, messier
object and others are in the sky when you give it 3 parameters to work
with....ie Zenith, and two guide stars.
It's very good, I have it and I love it.
You may, however, want to replace the finder and you can use a Telrad
or other product too.
If your initial alignment parameters are accurate and the base is
level, you should have very little problem at all finding objects.
|
| | |
Date: 12 Dec 2006 22:06:41
From: LurfysMa
Subject: Re: Starter scope for 9 year old: StarBlast or SkyQuest?
|
On 12 Dec 2006 21:58:01 -0800, "Patrick Edward Murray"
<ed1ward2@verizon.net > wrote:
>Maybe I wasn't concise enough. The 'scopes are called Skyquest. They
>are called "Intelliscopes" when they are mated with the Intelliscope
>Object Locator and the associated hardware which is actually a small
>computer that can calculate where an object, star , planet, messier
>object and others are in the sky when you give it 3 parameters to work
>with....ie Zenith, and two guide stars.
What's the difference between:
a. the $360 Intelliscope XT6, and
b. the $480 Intelliscope XT6 with Object Locator?
--
|
| | | |
Date: 13 Dec 2006 08:43:48
From: Dennis Woos
Subject: Re: Starter scope for 9 year old: StarBlast or SkyQuest?
|
"LurfysMa" <invalid@invalid.invalid > wrote in message
news:bv5vn2hi0abfkct5id11ipr39aqd7ucisk@4ax.com...
> On 12 Dec 2006 21:58:01 -0800, "Patrick Edward Murray"
> <ed1ward2@verizon.net> wrote:
>
>>Maybe I wasn't concise enough. The 'scopes are called Skyquest. They
>>are called "Intelliscopes" when they are mated with the Intelliscope
>>Object Locator and the associated hardware which is actually a small
>>computer that can calculate where an object, star , planet, messier
>>object and others are in the sky when you give it 3 parameters to work
>>with....ie Zenith, and two guide stars.
>
> What's the difference between:
>
> a. the $360 Intelliscope XT6, and
>
> b. the $480 Intelliscope XT6 with Object Locator?
>
I don't think he needs a computer to find stuff for him - he can do it for
himself and learn/enjoy a lot more. What is the point of getting him a
scope? I have two sons, and speak from experience.
Dennis
|
| | | | |
Date: 13 Dec 2006 06:45:14
From: LurfysMa
Subject: Re: Starter scope for 9 year old: StarBlast or SkyQuest?
|
On Wed, 13 Dec 2006 08:43:48 -0500, "Dennis Woos" <dpwoos@gmavt.net >
wrote:
>"LurfysMa" <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
>news:bv5vn2hi0abfkct5id11ipr39aqd7ucisk@4ax.com...
>> On 12 Dec 2006 21:58:01 -0800, "Patrick Edward Murray"
>> <ed1ward2@verizon.net> wrote:
>>
>>>Maybe I wasn't concise enough. The 'scopes are called Skyquest. They
>>>are called "Intelliscopes" when they are mated with the Intelliscope
>>>Object Locator and the associated hardware which is actually a small
>>>computer that can calculate where an object, star , planet, messier
>>>object and others are in the sky when you give it 3 parameters to work
>>>with....ie Zenith, and two guide stars.
>>
>> What's the difference between:
>>
>> a. the $360 Intelliscope XT6, and
>>
>> b. the $480 Intelliscope XT6 with Object Locator?
>
>I don't think he needs a computer to find stuff for him - he can do it for
>himself and learn/enjoy a lot more. What is the point of getting him a
>scope?
That is the important question. The answer would be different for each
family/kid.
My objective is to get him something that he will use and learn from.
I am not concerned what he learns. That is, I'm not sure it's more
important to learn how to find a star manually or to see 10 times as
many objects because he can zoom right to them.
If the manual locating turns him off, he'll learn neither. If the
computer turns him on, I would guess that he will then want to learn
how to focus manually and take pride in that because he already knows
what the end result will be -- something he might not be able to
appreciate until he acgtuallyt sees something.
Personally, I think the computer-aided star locator can only be an
asset. I cannot see how it can interfere with learning. It's like
making kids learn long division before they can use math to solve
interesting problems. I say give them all the tools (calculators,
computers) you can and turn them on to the results. They will them
want to learn the tools.
>I have two sons, and speak from experience.
Of course, not all kids are identical and yours may have gotten a lot
of help and role modeling from you. Plus, we can't go run the
experiment the other way -- that is, give them a computer-aided scope
and see whether they did better or worse -- all other factors held
constant. ;-)
Thanks for your thoughts.
--
|
| | | | | |
Date: 13 Dec 2006 09:59:18
From: AM
Subject: Re: Starter scope for 9 year old: StarBlast or SkyQuest?
|
LurfysMa wrote:
> Personally, I think the computer-aided star locator can only be an
> asset.
Definitely !!
You have to keep them interested, and who knows
they might want to do it manually anyway. Ya don't
know anything except that the moment it gets tiring
for them, they will want to quit sooner. Also a
computer locater, or GOTO will provide information
on whatever they are looking at, a BIG bonus IMHO.
As much as kid's minds are a sponge for information,
it helps to present it in an interesting and timely
fashion. They definitely don't want to be bored waiting
for something...
My older son is mostly interested in the math involved,
my younger son only wants to see things, and not wait.
(no DSC's, or GOTO here, kid's are 20 and 24 now)
--
AM
http://sctuser.home.comcast.net
|
| | | | | | |
Date: 13 Dec 2006 13:45:52
From: LurfysMa
Subject: Re: Starter scope for 9 year old: StarBlast or SkyQuest?
|
On Wed, 13 Dec 2006 09:59:18 -0500, AM <sctuser@comcast.net > wrote:
>LurfysMa wrote:
>
>> Personally, I think the computer-aided star locator can only be an
>> asset.
>
>
>
>Definitely !!
>
>You have to keep them interested, and who knows
>they might want to do it manually anyway.
I agree. It's kinda like the spell-checker. Lots of people said it
would make everyone worse spellers. It's made me a better speller
because I see the mistake as soon as I make it.
>Ya don't
>know anything except that the moment it gets tiring
>for them, they will want to quit sooner. Also a
>computer locater, or GOTO will provide information
>on whatever they are looking at, a BIG bonus IMHO.
>As much as kid's minds are a sponge for information,
>it helps to present it in an interesting and timely
>fashion. They definitely don't want to be bored waiting
>for something...
>
>My older son is mostly interested in the math involved,
>my younger son only wants to see things, and not wait.
>(no DSC's, or GOTO here, kid's are 20 and 24 now)
--
|
| | | | | | | |
Date: 13 Dec 2006 17:03:02
From: Dennis Woos
Subject: Re: Starter scope for 9 year old: StarBlast or SkyQuest?
|
> I agree. It's kinda like the spell-checker. Lots of people said it
> would make everyone worse spellers. It's made me a better speller
> because I see the mistake as soon as I make it.
>
Its nothing like a spell checker - the spell checker does not write for you.
However, you will do what you will do. Good luck.
Dennis
|
| |
Date: 12 Dec 2006 17:32:30
From: Darian
Subject: Re: Starter scope for 9 year old: StarBlast or SkyQuest?
|
LurfysMa wrote:
> On 12 Dec 2006 07:16:13 -0800, "Darian" <darian.rachal@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> >Actually, a good quality refractor(80mm?) on an alt-az, of comparable
> >price to the XT 4.5 might appeal to him more and would allow daytime
> >use for terrestial objects, which kids find appealing. Orion has one
> >for the same price as the XT 4.5. I'd give it some consideration. He
> >could look at birds or far off scenery, all with an erect view. I
> >really think a child would find this more appealing than just a
> >telescope primarily for nighttime use, IMHO.
>
> The option of daytime viewing could be a factor, but I wouldn't want
> to sacrifice nighttime stargazing. He is fascinated by the solar
> system at the moment and he asked for a telescope. My guess is he
> would use it for looking at flora and fauna if he could, but the
> purpose is the planets and stars.
>
> How does an 80-mm (3.1") refractor compare to a 4.5" (114 mm)
> reflector as far as image quality?
IMHO, a 9 year old child is not going to notice the difference.
> If there's a refractor that's comparable to the reflectors (image
> quality, ease of use, etc.), the day time option would seem to make
> the refractor the choice.
>
> On the Orion site, I see many refractors:
>
> The Orion Starseeker 80 Go To, $330, 11 lbs, has a keypad that can be
> used to locate objects via a motorized mount.
>
> The Orion Starseeker 100 Go To, $430, 13 lbs, is similar.
>
> How do these compare with the XT4.5 or XT6?
I would not go with a GOTO with any telescope for a child. I'd get him
the easiest telescope to use, which I think would be a refractor. If
you want to spend the extra bucks get him the Orion 90mm on the
alt-az, but I think he'd be quite happy with the 80mm.
> Why are they so much lighter?
Aluminum tubes and tripods. I guess the Dob's bases are made from
particle board(?) which is quite heavy.
> Geez, Louise. I thought I had it narrowed down to StarBlast, XT4.5, or
> XT8. Now you've opened up a whole bunch of refractors to research. I
> didn't want this to turn into a career! (sigh)
>
> --
|
| |
Date: 13 Dec 2006 13:14:34
From:
Subject: Re: Starter scope for 9 year old: StarBlast or SkyQuest?
|
BTW, for a general purpose scope, the Orion StarBlast 4.5 EQ Reflector
is only a couple hundred bucks. It has a equatorial mount and a red
dot pointer as standard and a couple of eyepieces. Pretty good little
scope for the money. The mount can be upgraded with tracking motor, if
he gets serious about things. It weighs in at about 24 lbs, which
should be within his abilities to handle it.
flonesaw@longship.net wrote:
> I've got to weigh in on this.
>
> I had an alt-azim 4.5 inch reflector when I was about that age.
> Altazimuth mounts can suck big time. If I got an interesting item
> centered, by the time I got somebody else to the eyepiece, it often
> drifted out of view. Positioning an altazimuth scope on an object is
> difficult for a kid that age, even a nerd like I was. The scope, even
> though I could handle it, didn't get used often because it was so much
> work getting an item in the eyepiece. Knowing the sky didn't help,
> either.
>
> If this nerdy kid is anything like I was at that age, the best gift of
> all would be to take him to the store and let him help pick it out.
> You can educate him about the plusses and minuses of the various
> optical systems and he can help you understand what kind of scope might
> suit him the best. It could be that the 8" light bucket Dob will be
> the one, or he may want to go with an equatorial mounted 100mm
> achromat.
>
> This issue I'm trying to relate here is that many of these choices are
> very personal ones. If he is sharp and understands the issues, maybe
> he could provide the best input, rather than us astro freaks on this
> forum.
>
> Give him a card with some pictures of some scopes and enclose a
> certificate good for a telescope purchased at your nearby Orion store.
> I'm sure that he'll be totally blown away at your trust in him to help
> pick it out.
>
> Just some thoughts on the matter.
>
> Regards,
> AWF
>
>
> LurfysMa wrote:
> > My grandson, age 9, wants a telescope for Christmas. He's kind of a
> > nerdy kid who gets into something are really spends a lot of time with
> > it. His folks are involved and will help him. His only problem is that
> > he can be somewhat impatient and gets frustrated at times.
> >
> > Anyway, I have read most of the post on this and a couple of other NGs
> > for the past couple of years on beginner scopes. It seems like either
> > the Orion StarBlast or one of the Orion SkyQuest scopes will be the
> > right choice.
> >
> > Can anyone offer in simple language why they would choose one over the
> > other?
> >
> > Then, if it's the SkyQuest, should I get the XT4.5, XT6, or XT8? Price
> > is not a big concern. If the XT8 is really better for a kid and the
> > extra power won't just be harder to handle, I'd get the XT8.
> > Otherwise, one of the smaller ones.
> >
> > All comments and suggestions appreciated.
> >
> > I will also get him 1-2 of the books and accessories recommended here.
> >
> > I see that Orion is offering a Bonus Accessory Pack with the XT6 and
> > XT8. See
> >
> > http://www.telescope.com/shopping/product/detailmain.jsp?itemID=238462&itemType=PRODUCT&RS=1&keyword=
> >
> > and
> >
> > http://www.telescope.com/shopping/product/detailmain.jsp?itemID=241007&itemType=PRODUCT&iMainCat=4&iSubCat=9&iProductID=241007
> >
> > Can anyone tell me if I would need anything in addition to whatever is
> > in that package?
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > --
|
| |
Date: 13 Dec 2006 13:01:01
From:
Subject: Re: Starter scope for 9 year old: StarBlast or SkyQuest?
|
I've got to weigh in on this.
I had an alt-azim 4.5 inch reflector when I was about that age.
Altazimuth mounts can suck big time. If I got an interesting item
centered, by the time I got somebody else to the eyepiece, it often
drifted out of view. Positioning an altazimuth scope on an object is
difficult for a kid that age, even a nerd like I was. The scope, even
though I could handle it, didn't get used often because it was so much
work getting an item in the eyepiece. Knowing the sky didn't help,
either.
If this nerdy kid is anything like I was at that age, the best gift of
all would be to take him to the store and let him help pick it out.
You can educate him about the plusses and minuses of the various
optical systems and he can help you understand what kind of scope might
suit him the best. It could be that the 8" light bucket Dob will be
the one, or he may want to go with an equatorial mounted 100mm
achromat.
This issue I'm trying to relate here is that many of these choices are
very personal ones. If he is sharp and understands the issues, maybe
he could provide the best input, rather than us astro freaks on this
forum.
Give him a card with some pictures of some scopes and enclose a
certificate good for a telescope purchased at your nearby Orion store.
I'm sure that he'll be totally blown away at your trust in him to help
pick it out.
Just some thoughts on the matter.
Regards,
AWF
LurfysMa wrote:
> My grandson, age 9, wants a telescope for Christmas. He's kind of a
> nerdy kid who gets into something are really spends a lot of time with
> it. His folks are involved and will help him. His only problem is that
> he can be somewhat impatient and gets frustrated at times.
>
> Anyway, I have read most of the post on this and a couple of other NGs
> for the past couple of years on beginner scopes. It seems like either
> the Orion StarBlast or one of the Orion SkyQuest scopes will be the
> right choice.
>
> Can anyone offer in simple language why they would choose one over the
> other?
>
> Then, if it's the SkyQuest, should I get the XT4.5, XT6, or XT8? Price
> is not a big concern. If the XT8 is really better for a kid and the
> extra power won't just be harder to handle, I'd get the XT8.
> Otherwise, one of the smaller ones.
>
> All comments and suggestions appreciated.
>
> I will also get him 1-2 of the books and accessories recommended here.
>
> I see that Orion is offering a Bonus Accessory Pack with the XT6 and
> XT8. See
>
> http://www.telescope.com/shopping/product/detailmain.jsp?itemID=238462&itemType=PRODUCT&RS=1&keyword=
>
> and
>
> http://www.telescope.com/shopping/product/detailmain.jsp?itemID=241007&itemType=PRODUCT&iMainCat=4&iSubCat=9&iProductID=241007
>
> Can anyone tell me if I would need anything in addition to whatever is
> in that package?
>
> Thanks
>
> --
|
| | |
Date: 13 Dec 2006 13:50:54
From: LurfysMa
Subject: Re: Starter scope for 9 year old: StarBlast or SkyQuest?
|
On 13 Dec 2006 13:01:01 -0800, flonesaw@longship.net wrote:
>I've got to weigh in on this.
>
>I had an alt-azim 4.5 inch reflector when I was about that age.
>Altazimuth mounts can suck big time. If I got an interesting item
>centered, by the time I got somebody else to the eyepiece, it often
>drifted out of view. Positioning an altazimuth scope on an object is
>difficult for a kid that age, even a nerd like I was. The scope, even
>though I could handle it, didn't get used often because it was so much
>work getting an item in the eyepiece. Knowing the sky didn't help,
>either.
>
>If this nerdy kid is anything like I was at that age, the best gift of
>all would be to take him to the store and let him help pick it out.
>You can educate him about the plusses and minuses of the various
>optical systems and he can help you understand what kind of scope might
>suit him the best. It could be that the 8" light bucket Dob will be
>the one, or he may want to go with an equatorial mounted 100mm
>achromat.
>
>This issue I'm trying to relate here is that many of these choices are
>very personal ones. If he is sharp and understands the issues, maybe
>he could provide the best input, rather than us astro freaks on this
>forum.
>
>Give him a card with some pictures of some scopes and enclose a
>certificate good for a telescope purchased at your nearby Orion store.
>I'm sure that he'll be totally blown away at your trust in him to help
>pick it out.
My latest thinking, since I am close to the Orion store, is to talk to
the store about exchanges (trade ups). If they are reasonable, Im
thinking about buying the StartBlast to put under the tree. I'll then
tell him that we can go to the store and look at better scopes if he
wants to. I figure the store will be a lot more interested in trading
up than down.
Thanks for the thoughts.
--
|
| | | |
Date: 13 Dec 2006 17:08:57
From: W. H. Greer
Subject: Re: Starter scope for 9 year old: StarBlast or SkyQuest?
|
LurfysMa wrote:
>My latest thinking, since I am close to the Orion store, is to talk to
>the store about exchanges (trade ups). If they are reasonable, Im
>thinking about buying the StartBlast to put under the tree. I'll then
>tell him that we can go to the store and look at better scopes if he
>wants to. I figure the store will be a lot more interested in trading
>up than down.
Hi,
In my opinion you're on the right track with the StarBlast for a 9
year-old's first astronomical telescope -- either the regular
StarBlast or the equatorial version.
If the boy has (or can be provided with) some kind of sturdy platform
to rest the non-equatorial StarBlast on, then the non-EQ would be a
reasonable scope to get. Otherwise the equatorial version would be
preferable. The EQ's tripod would allow the boy (while standing) to
use the scope on uneven ground.
As for trading up, I would suggest first giving the boy a year (or so)
to further develop his interest. The StarBlast is good enough to keep
an interested individual busy for at least that length of time. After
a year (or so) you could present him with a larger or better
telescope. He might then be inclined to give, trade, or sell his used
StarBlast to a friend, thereby permitting two youngsters to observe
together and fuel each other's interest.
Good Luck with your ultimate decision!
--
Bill
Celestial Journeys
http://cejour.blogspot.com
|
| | | | |
Date: 13 Dec 2006 22:03:07
From: LurfysMa
Subject: Re: Starter scope for 9 year old: StarBlast or SkyQuest?
|
On Wed, 13 Dec 2006 17:08:57 -0700, W. H. Greer <sendnomail@tome.net >
wrote:
>LurfysMa wrote:
>
>>My latest thinking, since I am close to the Orion store, is to talk to
>>the store about exchanges (trade ups). If they are reasonable, Im
>>thinking about buying the StartBlast to put under the tree. I'll then
>>tell him that we can go to the store and look at better scopes if he
>>wants to. I figure the store will be a lot more interested in trading
>>up than down.
>
>Hi,
>In my opinion you're on the right track with the StarBlast for a 9
>year-old's first astronomical telescope -- either the regular
>StarBlast or the equatorial version.
>
>If the boy has (or can be provided with) some kind of sturdy platform
>to rest the non-equatorial StarBlast on, then the non-EQ would be a
>reasonable scope to get. Otherwise the equatorial version would be
>preferable. The EQ's tripod would allow the boy (while standing) to
>use the scope on uneven ground.
I'm not sure I fully understand the difference between the StarBlast
and the StarBlast EQ. The magnifications are different (26x, 75x vs
39x, 75x) but I think that's because they come with different
eyepieces (Explorer II 17.0mm, 6.0mm vs 3-Element 15.0mm, 6.0mm).
The big difference seems to be the mount type (altazimuth vs
equatorial). According to Wikipedia, the altazimuth mount is simpler
to build and use, but more difficult for tracking moving objects
because tracking must be done on two axes. The equatorial mount is
more complex, but eliminates the earth's spin as a variable. It then
goes on to say that altazimuth are more appropriate for dobsonian
scopes.
Would you only get the EQ if a sturdy platform is NOT available?
>As for trading up, I would suggest first giving the boy a year (or so)
>to further develop his interest. The StarBlast is good enough to keep
>an interested individual busy for at least that length of time. After
>a year (or so) you could present him with a larger or better
>telescope. He might then be inclined to give, trade, or sell his used
>StarBlast to a friend, thereby permitting two youngsters to observe
>together and fuel each other's interest.
>
>Good Luck with your ultimate decision!
Thanks for the help
--
|
| | | | | |
Date: 14 Dec 2006 09:54:49
From: Shawn
Subject: Re: Starter scope for 9 year old: StarBlast or SkyQuest?
|
LurfysMa wrote:
> On Wed, 13 Dec 2006 17:08:57 -0700, W. H. Greer <sendnomail@tome.net>
> wrote:
>
>> LurfysMa wrote:
>>
>>> My latest thinking, since I am close to the Orion store, is to talk to
>>> the store about exchanges (trade ups). If they are reasonable, Im
>>> thinking about buying the StartBlast to put under the tree. I'll then
>>> tell him that we can go to the store and look at better scopes if he
>>> wants to. I figure the store will be a lot more interested in trading
>>> up than down.
>> Hi,
>> In my opinion you're on the right track with the StarBlast for a 9
>> year-old's first astronomical telescope -- either the regular
>> StarBlast or the equatorial version.
>>
>> If the boy has (or can be provided with) some kind of sturdy platform
>> to rest the non-equatorial StarBlast on, then the non-EQ would be a
>> reasonable scope to get. Otherwise the equatorial version would be
>> preferable. The EQ's tripod would allow the boy (while standing) to
>> use the scope on uneven ground.
>
> I'm not sure I fully understand the difference between the StarBlast
> and the StarBlast EQ. The magnifications are different (26x, 75x vs
> 39x, 75x) but I think that's because they come with different
> eyepieces (Explorer II 17.0mm, 6.0mm vs 3-Element 15.0mm, 6.0mm).
>
> The big difference seems to be the mount type (altazimuth vs
> equatorial). According to Wikipedia, the altazimuth mount is simpler
> to build and use, but more difficult for tracking moving objects
> because tracking must be done on two axes. The equatorial mount is
> more complex, but eliminates the earth's spin as a variable. It then
> goes on to say that altazimuth are more appropriate for dobsonian
> scopes.
>
> Would you only get the EQ if a sturdy platform is NOT available?
Polar alignment of a telescope isn't that hard, and with a knowledgeable
adult instructing him he should catch on pretty quickly. If he's on his
own I think it would be asking a lot of any 9 year old. If the scope
isn't aligned pretty closely (a few degrees) with the Earth's axis of
rotation, the EQ feature of the mount is useless and overly complicates
the scope's use compared to an alt-az mount.
Shawn
|
| | | | | | |
Date: 14 Dec 2006 17:26:37
From: Alan French
Subject: Re: Starter scope for 9 year old: StarBlast or SkyQuest?
|
For visual use, polar alignment involves plunking the scope down so the
polar axis points roughly at Polaris, the North Star. There is no need for
anything more complicated.
Although equatorial mounts make tracking easier, moving most Dobs to follow
the stars isn't difficult. I find a lot of people find equatorial mounts
confusing to use. Also, many are not very steady, making them hard to point
and inclined to shake a lot in even gentle breezes or while trying to get a
good focus. The equatorial mount for the Starblast looks a bit undersized
to me, and I certainly wouldn't recommend it.
I still think you can't go wrong with the SkyQuest, and the only serious
considerations remaining are whether to get the XT4.5 or the XT6. If you
decide on the XT 6, then you could consider the XT6 IntelliScope. If you
buy it without the object locator, it will work just like the standard XT6,
but you'll have the option of adding the Object Locator for computer
assisted observing.
You're not going to find a choice that reflects all the advice you're being
given. If your grandson is really interested, I don't think there are
better choices for starting out than a 4.5" or 6" Dob.
You might want to visit a local library or bookstore and check out the
advice in Terence Dickinson's book "Nightwatch."
Clear skies, Alan
Clear skies, Alan
|
| | | | | |
Date: 14 Dec 2006 02:31:24
From: W. H. Greer
Subject: Re: Starter scope for 9 year old: StarBlast or SkyQuest?
|
LurfysMa wrote:
>I'm not sure I fully understand the difference between the StarBlast
>and the StarBlast EQ. The magnifications are different (26x, 75x vs
>39x, 75x) but I think that's because they come with different
>eyepieces (Explorer II 17.0mm, 6.0mm vs 3-Element 15.0mm, 6.0mm).
Ah-ha! You caught something I missed. The Expanse eyepieces that the
EQ comes with provide wider fields of view and better (at least with
the 6mm) eye-relief. Such eyepieces are easier for beginners to use
with any telescope.
>The big difference seems to be the mount type (altazimuth vs
>equatorial). According to Wikipedia, the altazimuth mount is simpler
>to build and use, but more difficult for tracking moving objects
>because tracking must be done on two axes. The equatorial mount is
>more complex, but eliminates the earth's spin as a variable. It then
>goes on to say that altazimuth are more appropriate for dobsonian
>scopes.
The differences you mention are accurate.
A Dobsonian is (by definition) essentially a low-budget Newtonian on
an inexpensive, altaz mount. A Newtonian on an EQ mount is no longer
(by most definitions) a Dobsonian.
>Would you only get the EQ if a sturdy platform is NOT available?
That was my original intent. My reasoning had to do with the use of
the standard (non-EQ) StarBlast. Without some kind of solid, raised
platform (picnic table, etc.) to rest it on, a child would end up
having to lie on the ground in order to use it. The EQ version is on
a raised tripod -- placing the eyepiece at a more convenient height.
The Expanse eyepieces make the EQ a bit more attractive; but if a
sturdy platform is available for the other scope, the final decision
would depend heavily on the specific child. I suggest using both
scopes (actually pointing them at a variety of targets) with their
supplied eyepieces while at the Orion store so that you can better see
the differences in the mounts as well as the eyepieces. I suspect
that most 9-year olds would be more comfortable using the alt-az
version; but both are good first telescopes.
--
Bill
Celestial Journeys
http://cejour.blogspot.com
|
| | | | | | |
Date: 14 Dec 2006 05:26:41
From: LurfysMa
Subject: Re: Starter scope for 9 year old: StarBlast or SkyQuest?
|
On Thu, 14 Dec 2006 02:31:24 -0700, W. H. Greer <sendnomail@tome.net >
wrote:
>LurfysMa wrote:
>
>>I'm not sure I fully understand the difference between the StarBlast
>>and the StarBlast EQ. The magnifications are different (26x, 75x vs
>>39x, 75x) but I think that's because they come with different
>>eyepieces (Explorer II 17.0mm, 6.0mm vs 3-Element 15.0mm, 6.0mm).
>
>Ah-ha! You caught something I missed.
I just did a search (on the Orion website) for "StarBlast" then
checked the "compare" box for the two StarBlast and then clicked on
Compare. I got a side-by-side comparison chart. From there, it was
easy to spot the differences.
>The Expanse eyepieces that the
>EQ comes with provide wider fields of view and better (at least with
>the 6mm) eye-relief. Such eyepieces are easier for beginners to use
>with any telescope.
But I can buy other eyepieces for either scope, no?
>>The big difference seems to be the mount type (altazimuth vs
>>equatorial). According to Wikipedia, the altazimuth mount is simpler
>>to build and use, but more difficult for tracking moving objects
>>because tracking must be done on two axes. The equatorial mount is
>>more complex, but eliminates the earth's spin as a variable. It then
>>goes on to say that altazimuth are more appropriate for dobsonian
>>scopes.
>
>The differences you mention are accurate.
>
>A Dobsonian is (by definition) essentially a low-budget Newtonian on
>an inexpensive, altaz mount. A Newtonian on an EQ mount is no longer
>(by most definitions) a Dobsonian.
>
>>Would you only get the EQ if a sturdy platform is NOT available?
>
>That was my original intent. My reasoning had to do with the use of
>the standard (non-EQ) StarBlast. Without some kind of solid, raised
>platform (picnic table, etc.) to rest it on, a child would end up
>having to lie on the ground in order to use it. The EQ version is on
>a raised tripod -- placing the eyepiece at a more convenient height.
>
>The Expanse eyepieces make the EQ a bit more attractive; but if a
>sturdy platform is available for the other scope, the final decision
>would depend heavily on the specific child. I suggest using both
>scopes (actually pointing them at a variety of targets) with their
>supplied eyepieces while at the Orion store so that you can better see
>the differences in the mounts as well as the eyepieces.
OK. Will I be able to tell how well these things will work at night on
celestial objects by looking at telephone poles from the store in the
day?
>I suspect
>that most 9-year olds would be more comfortable using the alt-az
>version; but both are good first telescopes.
I going to the store today.
--
|
| | | | |
Date: 19 Dec 2006 08:07:34
From: Bill Hudson
Subject: Re: Starter scope for 9 year old: StarBlast or SkyQuest?
|
LurfysMa wrote:
> On 16 Dec 2006 14:27:01 -0800, "Bill Hudson" <oldgeek61-951@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
> >
> >LurfysMa wrote:
> >> On 15 Dec 2006 22:28:41 -0800, "Bill Hudson" <oldgeek61-951@yahoo.com>
> >> wrote:
> >
> >[snip]
> >
> >> >In the summer, when the conditions are right, we have the darkest skies
> >> >within 100 miles of the SF Bay Area (or so we like to brag). The
> >> >marine layer comes in and covers up Gilroy, Hollister, Salinas, San
> >> >Juan Bautista and Soledad.
> >>
> >> Does the marine layer that covers Gilroy also cover up the aroma of
> >> garlic and onion? ;-)
> >
> >Of course not. And why would we want to? :-)
>
> You wouldn't. That's why I was checking. ;-)
>
> >> >The observatory is on the grounds of a
> >> >California State Park, and a lot of people come down for the program
> >> >and camp overnight.
> >>
> >> Sounds like it might be worth the drive.
> >
> >We have people come from as far away as Stockton and Sacramento.
>
> Then you must have something other than dark skies...alcohol? drugs?
> girls? guys? I better come and check it out before I bring my
> grandson.
No, a 30" f/4.8 newtonian on a polar axis mount (I seem to recall
someone telling me it was an 'english cross' mount). We let people
look through it all night long.
See my blog at http://astrogeek.wordpress.com and look up the 'Fremont
Peak' post. Or, just take a look at this:
http://picasaweb.google.com/wjhudson/FremontPeak
|
| | |
Date: 16 Dec 2006 14:27:01
From: Bill Hudson
Subject: Re: Starter scope for 9 year old: StarBlast or SkyQuest?
|
LurfysMa wrote:
> On 15 Dec 2006 22:28:41 -0800, "Bill Hudson" <oldgeek61-951@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
[snip]
> >In the summer, when the conditions are right, we have the darkest skies
> >within 100 miles of the SF Bay Area (or so we like to brag). The
> >marine layer comes in and covers up Gilroy, Hollister, Salinas, San
> >Juan Bautista and Soledad.
>
> Does the marine layer that covers Gilroy also cover up the aroma of
> garlic and onion? ;-)
Of course not. And why would we want to? :-)
>
> >The observatory is on the grounds of a
> >California State Park, and a lot of people come down for the program
> >and camp overnight.
>
> Sounds ike it might be worth the drive.
>
We have people come from as far away as Stockton and Sacramento.
--
Bill Hudson - http://astrogeek.wordpress.com
|
| | | |
Date: 17 Dec 2006 21:45:52
From: LurfysMa
Subject: Re: Starter scope for 9 year old: StarBlast or SkyQuest?
|
On 16 Dec 2006 14:27:01 -0800, "Bill Hudson" <oldgeek61-951@yahoo.com >
wrote:
>
>LurfysMa wrote:
>> On 15 Dec 2006 22:28:41 -0800, "Bill Hudson" <oldgeek61-951@yahoo.com>
>> wrote:
>
>[snip]
>
>> >In the summer, when the conditions are right, we have the darkest skies
>> >within 100 miles of the SF Bay Area (or so we like to brag). The
>> >marine layer comes in and covers up Gilroy, Hollister, Salinas, San
>> >Juan Bautista and Soledad.
>>
>> Does the marine layer that covers Gilroy also cover up the aroma of
>> garlic and onion? ;-)
>
>Of course not. And why would we want to? :-)
You wouldn't. That's why I was checking. ;-)
>> >The observatory is on the grounds of a
>> >California State Park, and a lot of people come down for the program
>> >and camp overnight.
>>
>> Sounds like it might be worth the drive.
>
>We have people come from as far away as Stockton and Sacramento.
Then you must have something other than dark skies...alcohol? drugs?
girls? guys? I better come and check it out before I bring my
grandson.
--
|
| |
Date: 13 Dec 2006 10:42:23
From: Patrick Edward Murray
Subject: Re: Starter scope for 9 year old: StarBlast or SkyQuest?
|
Dennis,
One of my best friends put one of these together for a mutual friend.
Unless Stargazer Steve has changed...the optimum phrase here is
"Elbow Grease" since you have to put the telescope together and if you
want a painted scope you have to paint it yourself.
I can't say if the optics are good or bad but I have not heard from the
friend that
they have had any trouble with it.
|
| |
Date: 13 Dec 2006 10:30:05
From: Patrick Edward Murray
Subject: Re: Starter scope for 9 year old: StarBlast or SkyQuest?
|
Unless they say that the Intelliscope Object Locator is included in the
package, the difference is one is "just the scope" and the other is the
scope plus the intelliscope object locator.
I would fork over the money for the entire package. You can always use
the telescope by itself but with the object locator, you don't have the
extra worry about being able to find objects.
This little computer is extremely helpful believe me.
Maybe his folks would buy him a 10 x 50 pair of binoculars too because
it's really neat to locate some of the brighter Messier Objects with a
pair of binoculars and then be blown away when you see it for the first
time in your telescope.
|
| |
Date: 14 Dec 2006 20:09:55
From: Patrick Edward Murray
Subject: Re: Starter scope for 9 year old: StarBlast or SkyQuest?
|
Using the setting circles is a pain-in-the-neck, thats why these go to
Dobs are popular.
I've fooled around enough and at 50 I would rather try to see an object
not waste time finding it.
|
| |
Date: 14 Dec 2006 12:54:18
From: Bill Hudson
Subject: Re: Starter scope for 9 year old: StarBlast or SkyQuest?
|
LurfysMa wrote:
> On Thu, 14 Dec 2006 02:31:24 -0700, W. H. Greer <sendnomail@tome.net>
> wrote:
>
> >LurfysMa wrote:
> >
> >>I'm not sure I fully understand the difference between the StarBlast
> >>and the StarBlast EQ. The magnifications are different (26x, 75x vs
> >>39x, 75x) but I think that's because they come with different
> >>eyepieces (Explorer II 17.0mm, 6.0mm vs 3-Element 15.0mm, 6.0mm).
> >
> >Ah-ha! You caught something I missed.
>
> I just did a search (on the Orion website) for "StarBlast" then
> checked the "compare" box for the two StarBlast and then clicked on
> Compare. I got a side-by-side comparison chart. From there, it was
> easy to spot the differences.
>
> >The Expanse eyepieces that the
> >EQ comes with provide wider fields of view and better (at least with
> >the 6mm) eye-relief. Such eyepieces are easier for beginners to use
> >with any telescope.
>
> But I can buy other eyepieces for either scope, no?
>
> >>The big difference seems to be the mount type (altazimuth vs
> >>equatorial). According to Wikipedia, the altazimuth mount is simpler
> >>to build and use, but more difficult for tracking moving objects
> >>because tracking must be done on two axes. The equatorial mount is
> >>more complex, but eliminates the earth's spin as a variable. It then
> >>goes on to say that altazimuth are more appropriate for dobsonian
> >>scopes.
> >
> >The differences you mention are accurate.
> >
> >A Dobsonian is (by definition) essentially a low-budget Newtonian on
> >an inexpensive, altaz mount. A Newtonian on an EQ mount is no longer
> >(by most definitions) a Dobsonian.
> >
> >>Would you only get the EQ if a sturdy platform is NOT available?
> >
> >That was my original intent. My reasoning had to do with the use of
> >the standard (non-EQ) StarBlast. Without some kind of solid, raised
> >platform (picnic table, etc.) to rest it on, a child would end up
> >having to lie on the ground in order to use it. The EQ version is on
> >a raised tripod -- placing the eyepiece at a more convenient height.
> >
> >The Expanse eyepieces make the EQ a bit more attractive; but if a
> >sturdy platform is available for the other scope, the final decision
> >would depend heavily on the specific child. I suggest using both
> >scopes (actually pointing them at a variety of targets) with their
> >supplied eyepieces while at the Orion store so that you can better see
> >the differences in the mounts as well as the eyepieces.
>
> OK. Will I be able to tell how well these things will work at night on
> celestial objects by looking at telephone poles from the store in the
> day?
>
> >I suspect
> >that most 9-year olds would be more comfortable using the alt-az
> >version; but both are good first telescopes.
>
> I going to the store today.
>
> --
I'll toss in my $0.02 (and it's worth about that much)....
An EQ mount is really only useful (all other things being equal) if you
are going to be doing some long exposure astrophotography. As far as
just 'looking at the stars' an Alt-Az will work just fine.
Personally, I like a motorized (not computerized) EQ mount over a
computer controlled one in either Alt-Az or EQ, but that's just my
personal preference.
I've seen some great scopes go unused at star parties because the
computers were acting up. A computerized mount will have him finding
interesting objects, but in many cases getting the alignment right can
be time-consuming and tricky, and the scope won't operate correctly
until that's done. Some of the newer computers with more bell$ and
whi$tle$ will make that easier.
Perhaps you should look for a scope that has an 'upgrade path' where
you can buy an add-on wedge down the road. (A wedge will allow sky
tracking like an EQ mount on an Alt-Az scope).
After he's gotten his scope, invite him to come to one of the public
viewing nights at the local astronomy clubs (there are several in the
SF Bay Area) where he will find lots of helpful dedicated amateurs who
will gladly help him use his scope, find interesting objects, and teach
him the sky.
I am a member of the Fremont Peak Observatory Association
(http://www.fpoa.net) and you're welcome to bring him down to Fremont
Peak on one of our public viewing nights (March through October).
--
Bill Hudson - http://astrogeek.wordpress.com
|
| | |
Date: 15 Dec 2006 16:30:30
From: LurfysMa
Subject: Re: Starter scope for 9 year old: StarBlast or SkyQuest?
|
On 14 Dec 2006 12:54:18 -0800, "Bill Hudson" <oldgeek61-951@yahoo.com >
wrote:
>After he's gotten his scope, invite him to come to one of the public
>viewing nights at the local astronomy clubs (there are several in the
>SF Bay Area) where he will find lots of helpful dedicated amateurs who
>will gladly help him use his scope, find interesting objects, and teach
>him the sky.
The sales guy at Orion gave me a list of local astronomy clubs. There
is one in Santa Rosa, where he lives. I'll talk to his folks about
taking him. There is also one at Foothill College near me so maybe we
can go there when he;s ere visiting.
>I am a member of the Fremont Peak Observatory Association
>(http://www.fpoa.net) and you're welcome to bring him down to Fremont
>Peak on one of our public viewing nights (March through October).
That's a bit of a drive from Santa Rosa, but if we can we will.
Thanks
--
|
| |
Date: 14 Dec 2006 22:46:08
From: LurfysMa
Subject: Re: Starter scope for 9 year old: StarBlast or SkyQuest?
|
On Mon, 11 Dec 2006 15:30:07 -0800, LurfysMa <invalid@invalid.invalid >
wrote:
>My grandson, age 9, wants a telescope for Christmas. He's kind of a
>nerdy kid who gets into something and really spends a lot of time with
>it. His folks are involved and will help him. His only problem is that
>he can be somewhat impatient and gets frustrated at times.
OK. Today I went to the Orion store and came away with a big box and a
bag.
Before I get into what I got, I just want to say a very big Thank You
to everyone who contributed to this thread. It was immensely helpful.
It was extremely informative to see the actual telescopes.
I also want to recommend Ken Sablinsky, the guy who waited on me at
the store. This guy is the perfect retail sales guy for technical
gear. He is an astronomy hobbiest and loves his hobby. He is also
patient and respectful. I was in the store for almost an hour trying
and testing a lot of different telescopes.
I ended up with a 90mm AstroView EQ Refractor ($300). I choose it over
the StarBlast or the SkyQuest for several reasons:
(1) It can be used in the daytime as well as at night.
(2) Ken told me that the reflectors would have to be realigned anytime
they are moved much. The refrators are maintenance free other than
cleaning.
(3) The EQ mount will accept a motor for constant tracking.
I also got a Shorty-Plus 2x 3-element Barlow ($80).
The package was completed with a copy of Doscover the Stars ($14) and
Turn Left at Orion ($25) plus an Orion RedBeam II LED flashlight
($18).
Total came to $472 with tax.
I hope I made a good choice.
Again, thanks to everyone for all the help.
--
|
| | |
Date: 15 Dec 2006 10:08:06
From: W. H. Greer
Subject: Re: Starter scope for 9 year old: StarBlast or SkyQuest?
|
LurfysMa wrote:
>I ended up with a 90mm AstroView EQ Refractor
Thanks for letting us know.
You did well! That scope will provide some fantastic views of the
moon, Saturn, etc.
Sure, the mount and tripod aren't exactly the Rock of Gibralter; but
they ought to suffice. If things get too shaky, it could be a sign
that the tripod legs need to be tightened where they connect to the
mount. I've seen this occur with a similar tripod. The leg
tightening worked like "magic".
Some beginners neglect balance: The telescope tube should be balanced
(front to back) within the rings that hold it; and the counterweight
should be adjusted to balance the weight of the telescope.
The above hints ought to go a long way toward improving the steadiness
of the tripod and mount.
A 90mm refractor is a great first telescope and you're a first-rate
grandfather for taking the time to properly research the telescope
marketplace. Now it's up to your grandson put that telescope to good
use!
--
Bill
Celestial Journeys
http://cejour.blogspot.com
|
| | | |
Date: 15 Dec 2006 17:26:32
From: Alan French
Subject: Re: Starter scope for 9 year old: StarBlast or SkyQuest?
|
"W. H. Greer" <sendnomail@tome.net > wrote in message
news:hvf5o2h0ko1dj43ied5f5ej6atsdmehuit@4ax.com...
> LurfysMa wrote:
>
> >I ended up with a 90mm AstroView EQ Refractor
>
> Thanks for letting us know.
>
> You did well! That scope will provide some fantastic views of the
> moon, Saturn, etc.
>
> Sure, the mount and tripod aren't exactly the Rock of Gibralter; but
> they ought to suffice. If things get too shaky, it could be a sign
> that the tripod legs need to be tightened where they connect to the
> mount. I've seen this occur with a similar tripod. The leg
> tightening worked like "magic".
>
> Some beginners neglect balance: The telescope tube should be balanced
> (front to back) within the rings that hold it; and the counterweight
> should be adjusted to balance the weight of the telescope.
>
> The above hints ought to go a long way toward improving the steadiness
> of the tripod and mount.
>
> A 90mm refractor is a great first telescope and you're a first-rate
> grandfather for taking the time to properly research the telescope
> marketplace. Now it's up to your grandson put that telescope to good
> use!
> --
> Bill
> Celestial Journeys
> http://cejour.blogspot.com
Some food advice from Bill. Your grandson should have a lot of fun with
this telescope. Also, if you can, keep the tripod legs short (if they are
adjustable). The center brace should help too.
Clear skies, Alan
|
| | | | |
Date: 15 Dec 2006 09:31:08
From: Brian Tung
Subject: Re: Starter scope for 9 year old: StarBlast or SkyQuest?
|
Alan French wrote:
> Some food advice from Bill.
You can also find food advice in a recent issue of Sky and Telescope:
they had an article describing how to stay awake during the observing
session, and how to help yourself fall asleep thereafter. Don't forget
the bilberry jam!
Oh, was that a typo? :)
--
Brian Tung <brian@isi.edu >
The Astronomy Corner at http://astro.isi.edu/
Unofficial C5+ Home Page at http://astro.isi.edu/c5plus/
The PleiadAtlas Home Page at http://astro.isi.edu/pleiadatlas/
My Own Personal FAQ (SAA) at http://astro.isi.edu/reference/faq.html
|
| | | | | |
Date: 15 Dec 2006 17:43:05
From: Alan French
Subject: Re: Starter scope for 9 year old: StarBlast or SkyQuest?
|
"Brian Tung" <brian@isi.edu > wrote in message
news:elum4s$cr3$1@praesepe.isi.edu...
> Alan French wrote:
> > Some food advice from Bill.
>
> You can also find food advice in a recent issue of Sky and Telescope:
> they had an article describing how to stay awake during the observing
> session, and how to help yourself fall asleep thereafter. Don't forget
> the bilberry jam!
>
> Oh, was that a typo? :)
Brian,
Did you miss Bill's post about observing and Chateaubriand? <G >
Yes - must proof read posts, must proof read posts.....
Clear skies, Alan
|
| | |
Date: 15 Dec 2006 09:11:44
From: Shawn
Subject: Re: Starter scope for 9 year old: StarBlast or SkyQuest?
|
LurfysMa wrote:
> On Mon, 11 Dec 2006 15:30:07 -0800, LurfysMa <invalid@invalid.invalid>
> wrote:
>
>> My grandson, age 9, wants a telescope for Christmas. He's kind of a
>> nerdy kid who gets into something and really spends a lot of time with
>> it. His folks are involved and will help him. His only problem is that
>> he can be somewhat impatient and gets frustrated at times.
>
> OK. Today I went to the Orion store and came away with a big box and a
> bag.
>
> Before I get into what I got, I just want to say a very big Thank You
> to everyone who contributed to this thread. It was immensely helpful.
>
> It was extremely informative to see the actual telescopes.
>
> I also want to recommend Ken Sablinsky, the guy who waited on me at
> the store. This guy is the perfect retail sales guy for technical
> gear. He is an astronomy hobbiest and loves his hobby. He is also
> patient and respectful. I was in the store for almost an hour trying
> and testing a lot of different telescopes.
>
> I ended up with a 90mm AstroView EQ Refractor ($300). I choose it over
> the StarBlast or the SkyQuest for several reasons:
>
> (1) It can be used in the daytime as well as at night.
>
> (2) Ken told me that the reflectors would have to be realigned anytime
> they are moved much. The refrators are maintenance free other than
> cleaning.
>
> (3) The EQ mount will accept a motor for constant tracking.
>
> I also got a Shorty-Plus 2x 3-element Barlow ($80).
>
> The package was completed with a copy of Doscover the Stars ($14) and
> Turn Left at Orion ($25) plus an Orion RedBeam II LED flashlight
> ($18).
>
> Total came to $472 with tax.
>
> I hope I made a good choice.
>
> Again, thanks to everyone for all the help.
Remember, most of the nit picking here is just that. You bought him a
good scope. Different strengths, different weaknesses from other
scopes. Of all the variations discussed here, you got him about the
best scope for looking at planets and the moon, and that's a great place
to start.
Shawn
|
| | |
Date: 15 Dec 2006 16:05:41
From: Joe Bergeron
Subject: Re: Starter scope for 9 year old: StarBlast or SkyQuest?
|
There's no fundamental reason why reflectors need to be collimated
(aligned) while refractors generally don't. It's really a matter of the
mechanical construction of the scope. Refractors mount the lenses in a
solid cell which is then screwed onto the front of the tube. The
focuser is similarly screwed into the back. Assuming the thing is made
properly in the first place, the alignment won't change without a
serious bang being applied.
Reflectors are generally more cheaply made. The mirrors could be placed
in solid, precision cells and tubes, but this is rarely done because
then reflectors would start to approach the price of refractors on an
inch-for-inch basis. So the mirrors are stuck in cells which are
adjustable and which do indeed need to be adjusted if you want to get
the best performance out of the scope. This is especially important
with a short-focus scope like the Starblast. Some people will find the
process quick and easy, and others will be baffled for years.
Same goes for using an equatorial mount. All you really need to do is:
A: adjust the angle of the polar axis to match your latitude (should be
a one-time thing) and
B: Plop the scope down so that the polar axis is aimed pretty much at
the North Star. Those two steps alone will make the mount track well
enough for typical visual observing.
I think you made a pretty good choice. If your son remains interested
he will surely learn enough to make his own decisions later about what
scopes would suit him best.
In article <eeg4o2ld1nptqnc6q9im7rti8m14hrc2kj@4ax.com >, LurfysMa
<invalid@invalid.invalid > wrote:
> On Mon, 11 Dec 2006 15:30:07 -0800, LurfysMa <invalid@invalid.invalid>
> wrote:
>
> >My grandson, age 9, wants a telescope for Christmas. He's kind of a
> >nerdy kid who gets into something and really spends a lot of time with
> >it. His folks are involved and will help him. His only problem is that
> >he can be somewhat impatient and gets frustrated at times.
>
> OK. Today I went to the Orion store and came away with a big box and a
> bag.
>
> Before I get into what I got, I just want to say a very big Thank You
> to everyone who contributed to this thread. It was immensely helpful.
>
> It was extremely informative to see the actual telescopes.
>
> I also want to recommend Ken Sablinsky, the guy who waited on me at
> the store. This guy is the perfect retail sales guy for technical
> gear. He is an astronomy hobbiest and loves his hobby. He is also
> patient and respectful. I was in the store for almost an hour trying
> and testing a lot of different telescopes.
>
> I ended up with a 90mm AstroView EQ Refractor ($300). I choose it over
> the StarBlast or the SkyQuest for several reasons:
>
> (1) It can be used in the daytime as well as at night.
>
> (2) Ken told me that the reflectors would have to be realigned anytime
> they are moved much. The refrators are maintenance free other than
> cleaning.
>
> (3) The EQ mount will accept a motor for constant tracking.
>
> I also got a Shorty-Plus 2x 3-element Barlow ($80).
>
> The package was completed with a copy of Doscover the Stars ($14) and
> Turn Left at Orion ($25) plus an Orion RedBeam II LED flashlight
> ($18).
>
> Total came to $472 with tax.
>
> I hope I made a good choice.
>
> Again, thanks to everyone for all the help.
--
Joe Bergeron
http://www.joebergeron.com
|
| | | |
Date: 15 Dec 2006 09:26:02
From: Chris L Peterson
Subject: Re: Starter scope for 9 year old: StarBlast or SkyQuest?
|
On Fri, 15 Dec 2006 16:05:41 GMT, Joe Bergeron
<jabergeron@earthlink.nettled > wrote:
>Reflectors are generally more cheaply made. The mirrors could be placed
>in solid, precision cells and tubes...
I don't think this is really true, short of truly heroic engineering.
There are fairly fundamental reasons that mirrors aren't placed in the
sort of cells you suggest. In the first place, reflectors usually have
larger- often much larger- objectives. The additional mass alone would
require a much more substantial supporting structure to produce the same
immunity to miscollimation that a refractor enjoys. Secondly, mirrors
are usually too large to be supported around their edges the way lenses
are. And at the same time, they are too subject to deformation to be
rigidly supported from the back. Basically, mirrors need to be supported
by a soft system, which is inherently at odds with any requirement that
they maintain collimation following physical shock.
By their very nature, the lens cells of refractors are much more
"cheaply made" than the mirror cells of any but the poorest reflectors.
I don't see this as a matter of economics at all, but of engineering
tradeoffs.
_________________________________________________
Chris L Peterson
Cloudbait Observatory
http://www.cloudbait.com
|
| | | | |
Date: 15 Dec 2006 20:35:25
From: Joe Bergeron
Subject: Re: Starter scope for 9 year old: StarBlast or SkyQuest?
|
In article <ifi5o2d87tomq9vl34g05ffu1f4ug0tqu6@4ax.com >, Chris L
Peterson <clp@alumni.caltech.edu > wrote:
> On Fri, 15 Dec 2006 16:05:41 GMT, Joe Bergeron
> <jabergeron@earthlink.nettled> wrote:
>
> >Reflectors are generally more cheaply made. The mirrors could be placed
> >in solid, precision cells and tubes...
>
> I don't think this is really true, short of truly heroic engineering.
> There are fairly fundamental reasons that mirrors aren't placed in the
> sort of cells you suggest. In the first place, reflectors usually have
> larger- often much larger- objectives. The additional mass alone would
> require a much more substantial supporting structure to produce the same
> immunity to miscollimation that a refractor enjoys. Secondly, mirrors
> are usually too large to be supported around their edges the way lenses
> are. And at the same time, they are too subject to deformation to be
> rigidly supported from the back. Basically, mirrors need to be supported
> by a soft system, which is inherently at odds with any requirement that
> they maintain collimation following physical shock.
This may be true of large reflectors, but not for the 4.25"-6" ones
we're discussing here. I doubt that a 6" 1" thick mirror is any more
prone to deformation than a 6" lens. I see no reason why a smallish
mirror couldn't be supported in a machined cell from the sides and the
back. The thermal issues would probably be the biggest drawback. It
seems to be that if it's feasible to support a 40" lens by the sides
only, supporting even a 20" mirror by the sides and back in a stable
cell should be possible too if you're willing to spend the money on it.
Look at the mirrors in a large Mak. They actually move back and forth,
yet they are mounted with enough precision to rarely if ever need any
collimation. A stationary Newtonian mirror should be easier.
>
> By their very nature, the lens cells of refractors are much more
> "cheaply made" than the mirror cells of any but the poorest reflectors.
> I don't see this as a matter of economics at all, but of engineering
> tradeoffs.
The mirror cells of small reflectors are usually cheap castings. Yeah,
some tiny refractors have crummy plastic cells, but the lens cells I'm
thinking about (the A-P, TEC, TMB variety) are a bit more sophisticated
than you'll find in any reflector short of the high-end Dobs.
--
Joe Bergeron
www.joebergeron.com
|
| | |
Date: 15 Dec 2006 14:42:36
From: Alan French
Subject: Re: Starter scope for 9 year old: StarBlast or SkyQuest?
|
"LurfysMa" <invalid@invalid.invalid > wrote in message
news:eeg4o2ld1nptqnc6q9im7rti8m14hrc2kj@4ax.com...
>
> (2) Ken told me that the reflectors would have to be realigned anytime
> they are moved much. The refrators are maintenance free other than
> cleaning.
The proper alignment or collimation of the optics in either the 4.5" or 6"
SkyQuest or Intelliscope is quite easy. Since they are relatively long
focal lengths and slow focal ratios collimation is also reasonably
forgiving. It doesn't have to be as accurate as with a larger Newtonian.
Clear skies, Alan
|
| | |
Date: 15 Dec 2006 14:36:32
From: Alan French
Subject: Re: Starter scope for 9 year old: StarBlast or SkyQuest?
|
"LurfysMa" <invalid@invalid.invalid > wrote in message
news:eeg4o2ld1nptqnc6q9im7rti8m14hrc2kj@4ax.com...
>
> I also want to recommend Ken Sablinsky, the guy who waited on me at
> the store. This guy is the perfect retail sales guy for technical
> gear. He is an astronomy hobbiest and loves his hobby. He is also
> patient and respectful. I was in the store for almost an hour trying
> and testing a lot of different telescopes.
>
> I ended up with a 90mm AstroView EQ Refractor ($300). I choose it over
> the StarBlast or the SkyQuest for several reasons:
I suggest you give it a quick try. See how easy it is to point at an
object, how well you can follow an object across the sky, and how much it
shakes in the wind. With a fairly long tube, it looks rather undermounted
to me. We have quite a few folks who bring similar mounts to our public
star parties with complaints about finding objects and keeping them in view.
I was reluctant to write this, but I certainly don't want you or your
grandson to be disappointed and turned off to astronomy by a difficult
telescope.
Clear skies, Alan
|
| | | |
Date: 15 Dec 2006 16:12:13
From: Joe Bergeron
Subject: Re: Starter scope for 9 year old: StarBlast or SkyQuest?
|
In article <Qpygh.4823$nq5.3662@twister.nyroc.rr.com >, Alan French
<adfrenchremoveallthis@nycap.rr.com > wrote:
> With a fairly long tube, it looks rather undermounted
> to me.
This is unfortunately true. That scope is bound to be a lot more wobbly
than either of those XT Dobs. The flimsy tripod will also have to be
extended to keep the eyepiece out of the dirt when the scope is aimed
overhead. Making wooden tripod legs might be a good idea.
I've never used one of these scopes though, so maybe it won't be as
shaky as I fear.
--
Joe Bergeron
http://www.joebergeron.com
|
| | |
Date: 15 Dec 2006 07:31:45
From: Dennis Woos
Subject: Re: Starter scope for 9 year old: StarBlast or SkyQuest?
|
> (2) Ken told me that the reflectors would have to be realigned anytime
> they are moved much. The refrators are maintenance free other than
> cleaning.
I have nothing against refractors, we have a couple ourselves. They have
some real advantages. However, not having to collimate is not one of them,
and I am disappointed that the guy in the store would say that it is. In
fact, he could have demonstrated how to do it in 10 minutes. My sons and I
don't spend more than 5 minutes collimating. Finally, usually we only
collimate because it is so easy and we want to get the best performance
possible. We could not worry about it and a lot of folks (especially
inexperienced ones) would never know the difference.
I think the EQ mount is a mistake, but only time will tell. An Alt-Az is so
much easier/more intuitive to handle. I wouldn't even try to use the
setting circles for a while - just point it at bright and easy to find
stuff. Make sure the finder is aligned.
Be aware that he is not going to get out and observe without an adult
encouraging and assisting him. It is great to get involved in a local astro
club - my two sons are good friends with many of the adult members in our
club and really look forward to club events.
Dennis
|
| | | |
Date: 15 Dec 2006 05:53:21
From: LurfysMa
Subject: Re: Starter scope for 9 year old: StarBlast or SkyQuest?
|
On Fri, 15 Dec 2006 07:31:45 -0500, "Dennis Woos" <dpwoos@gmavt.net >
wrote:
>> (2) Ken told me that the reflectors would have to be realigned anytime
>> they are moved much. The refrators are maintenance free other than
>> cleaning.
>
>I have nothing against refractors, we have a couple ourselves. They have
>some real advantages. However, not having to collimate is not one of them,
>and I am disappointed that the guy in the store would say that it is. In
>fact, he could have demonstrated how to do it in 10 minutes. My sons and I
>don't spend more than 5 minutes collimating. Finally, usually we only
>collimate because it is so easy and we want to get the best performance
>possible. We could not worry about it and a lot of folks (especially
>inexperienced ones) would never know the difference.
Maybe he meant that it isn't necessary. Maybe I misunderstood him. I
was there for an hour and we talked about a lot of different factors.
What he did say was that the reflectors need calibrating or alignment
(I don't recall him using the term collimate) frequently. He said that
the mirrors are mounted loosely because they don't want to squeeze the
mirrpr and distort it. I remember wondering why it wasn't glued to
some type of base and then the base clamped into place, but I had so
many questions that one got lost. I also remember wondering why the
lens in the refractors wouldn't have the same problem.
>I think the EQ mount is a mistake, but only time will tell. An Alt-Az is so
>much easier/more intuitive to handle. I wouldn't even try to use the
>setting circles for a while - just point it at bright and easy to find
>stuff. Make sure the finder is aligned.
I was worried about that, because several people recommended the
alt-az (or recommended against the eq). What decided it for me was
that once you get it properly lined up on an object, you only need to
make one adjustment to track the object across the sky.
Also, for $50, he can add a motor that will keep the object in the
firld of view. To get the same capability on the alt-az, requires a
completely different mount.
>Be aware that he is not going to get out and observe without an adult
>encouraging and assisting him. It is great to get involved in a local astro
>club - my two sons are good friends with many of the adult members in our
>club and really look forward to club events.
I absolutely plan to do that.
--
|
| |
Date: 15 Dec 2006 14:42:50
From:
Subject: Re: Starter scope for 9 year old: StarBlast or SkyQuest?
|
Great choice. That was one of the scopes I was eyeing in the Orion
catalog when you originally posted your question. However, in my
previous post I suggested the AstroView 100mm EQ mainly due to its more
robust mount and shorter focal length. But this f/11 90mm might have
better color correction, all other things equal.
I agree about the mount being a bit small. Just make sure that it's
all tight when he sets it up and you should be good to go.
I think an equatorial mount *is* the way to go, contrary to what some
say. For a kid his age, he'll really dig this scope. The mount has
that geeky factor which he'll like.
Have fun.
Dark skies to both of you.
LurfysMa wrote:
> On Mon, 11 Dec 2006 15:30:07 -0800, LurfysMa <invalid@invalid.invalid>
> wrote:
>
> >My grandson, age 9, wants a telescope for Christmas. He's kind of a
> >nerdy kid who gets into something and really spends a lot of time with
> >it. His folks are involved and will help him. His only problem is that
> >he can be somewhat impatient and gets frustrated at times.
>
> OK. Today I went to the Orion store and came away with a big box and a
> bag.
>
> Before I get into what I got, I just want to say a very big Thank You
> to everyone who contributed to this thread. It was immensely helpful.
>
> It was extremely informative to see the actual telescopes.
>
> I also want to recommend Ken Sablinsky, the guy who waited on me at
> the store. This guy is the perfect retail sales guy for technical
> gear. He is an astronomy hobbiest and loves his hobby. He is also
> patient and respectful. I was in the store for almost an hour trying
> and testing a lot of different telescopes.
>
> I ended up with a 90mm AstroView EQ Refractor ($300). I choose it over
> the StarBlast or the SkyQuest for several reasons:
>
> (1) It can be used in the daytime as well as at night.
>
> (2) Ken told me that the reflectors would have to be realigned anytime
> they are moved much. The refrators are maintenance free other than
> cleaning.
>
> (3) The EQ mount will accept a motor for constant tracking.
>
> I also got a Shorty-Plus 2x 3-element Barlow ($80).
>
> The package was completed with a copy of Doscover the Stars ($14) and
> Turn Left at Orion ($25) plus an Orion RedBeam II LED flashlight
> ($18).
>
> Total came to $472 with tax.
>
> I hope I made a good choice.
>
> Again, thanks to everyone for all the help.
>
> --
|
| | |
Date: 15 Dec 2006 18:50:10
From: LurfysMa
Subject: Re: Starter scope for 9 year old: StarBlast or SkyQuest?
|
On 15 Dec 2006 14:42:50 -0800, flonesaw@longship.net wrote:
>Great choice. That was one of the scopes I was eyeing in the Orion
>catalog when you originally posted your question. However, in my
>previous post I suggested the AstroView 100mm EQ mainly due to its more
>robust mount and shorter focal length.
How can you tell that the 100mm has a sturdier mount?
>But this f/11 90mm might have
>better color correction, all other things equal.
What does that mean?
>I agree about the mount being a bit small. Just make sure that it's
>all tight when he sets it up and you should be good to go.
>
>I think an equatorial mount *is* the way to go, contrary to what some
>say. For a kid his age, he'll really dig this scope. The mount has
>that geeky factor which he'll like.
Well, I guess we'll find out in about a week.
--
|
| |
Date: 15 Dec 2006 22:39:06
From: Bill Hudson
Subject: Re: Starter scope for 9 year old: StarBlast or SkyQuest?
|
LurfysMa wrote:
> On 15 Dec 2006 14:42:50 -0800, flonesaw@longship.net wrote:
>
> >Great choice. That was one of the scopes I was eyeing in the Orion
> >catalog when you originally posted your question. However, in my
> >previous post I suggested the AstroView 100mm EQ mainly due to its more
> >robust mount and shorter focal length.
>
> How can you tell that the 100mm has a sturdier mount?
>
> >But this f/11 90mm might have
> >better color correction, all other things equal.
>
> What does that mean?
Refracting telescopes suffer from chromatic aberration, where the light
from the stars is broken up into component colors just like sunlight
through a prism. This can be mostly corrected for with additional
elements in the optical system, and with a long focal length compared
to the aperture the chromatic aberration is reduced anyway. The
shorter focal length of the 100mm makes it more difficult to correct
for chromatic aberration. You probably won't notice anything unless
you try to boost the magnification way past the capabilities of the
scope.
By the way, unless you're willing to pay huge piles of money, every
telescope on the market is going to have some kind of optical
aberrations, and there's nothing wrong with the scope you selected.
>
> >I agree about the mount being a bit small. Just make sure that it's
> >all tight when he sets it up and you should be good to go.
> >
> >I think an equatorial mount *is* the way to go, contrary to what some
> >say. For a kid his age, he'll really dig this scope. The mount has
> >that geeky factor which he'll like.
>
> Well, I guess we'll find out in about a week.
>
The EQ mount provides a nice upgrade path to a motorized mount in the
future. The scope will probably work well for him well into the future.
If he really gets into it, you can consider upgrading his scope to a
larger aperture down the road. The 90mm aperture you selected would be
a bit small for deep sky observing, but it will do just fine for
planetary observing, or looking at features on the moon.
I'm sure he'll love it. Get him hooked up with a local astronomy club
and he will learn how to use it to its full advantage.
|
| | |
Date: 16 Dec 2006 10:25:39
From: LurfysMa
Subject: Re: Starter scope for 9 year old: StarBlast or SkyQuest?
|
On 15 Dec 2006 22:39:06 -0800, "Bill Hudson" <oldgeek61-951@yahoo.com >
wrote:
>
>LurfysMa wrote:
>> On 15 Dec 2006 14:42:50 -0800, flonesaw@longship.net wrote:
>>
>> >Great choice. That was one of the scopes I was eyeing in the Orion
>> >catalog when you originally posted your question. However, in my
>> >previous post I suggested the AstroView 100mm EQ mainly due to its more
>> >robust mount and shorter focal length.
>>
>> How can you tell that the 100mm has a sturdier mount?
>>
>> >But this f/11 90mm might have
>> >better color correction, all other things equal.
>>
>> What does that mean?
>
>Refracting telescopes suffer from chromatic aberration, where the light
>from the stars is broken up into component colors just like sunlight
>through a prism. This can be mostly corrected for with additional
>elements in the optical system, and with a long focal length compared
>to the aperture the chromatic aberration is reduced anyway. The
>shorter focal length of the 100mm makes it more difficult to correct
>for chromatic aberration. You probably won't notice anything unless
>you try to boost the magnification way past the capabilities of the
>scope.
>
>By the way, unless you're willing to pay huge piles of money, every
>telescope on the market is going to have some kind of optical
>aberrations,
Trade-offs, right?
>and there's nothing wrong with the scope you selected.
>
>>
>> >I agree about the mount being a bit small. Just make sure that it's
>> >all tight when he sets it up and you should be good to go.
>> >
>> >I think an equatorial mount *is* the way to go, contrary to what some
>> >say. For a kid his age, he'll really dig this scope. The mount has
>> >that geeky factor which he'll like.
>>
>> Well, I guess we'll find out in about a week.
>>
>
>The EQ mount provides a nice upgrade path to a motorized mount in the
>future. The scope will probably work well for him well into the future.
> If he really gets into it, you can consider upgrading his scope to a
>larger aperture down the road. The 90mm aperture you selected would be
>a bit small for deep sky observing, but it will do just fine for
>planetary observing, or looking at features on the moon.
>
>I'm sure he'll love it. Get him hooked up with a local astronomy club
>and he will learn how to use it to its full advantage.
That's the plan.
Again, thanks to you and everyone else for all the help.
--
|
| |
Date: 15 Dec 2006 22:28:41
From: Bill Hudson
Subject: Re: Starter scope for 9 year old: StarBlast or SkyQuest?
|
LurfysMa wrote:
> On 14 Dec 2006 12:54:18 -0800, "Bill Hudson" <oldgeek61-951@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
> >After he's gotten his scope, invite him to come to one of the public
> >viewing nights at the local astronomy clubs (there are several in the
> >SF Bay Area) where he will find lots of helpful dedicated amateurs who
> >will gladly help him use his scope, find interesting objects, and teach
> >him the sky.
>
> The sales guy at Orion gave me a list of local astronomy clubs. There
> is one in Santa Rosa, where he lives. I'll talk to his folks about
> taking him. There is also one at Foothill College near me so maybe we
> can go there when he;s ere visiting.
>
> >I am a member of the Fremont Peak Observatory Association
> >(http://www.fpoa.net) and you're welcome to bring him down to Fremont
> >Peak on one of our public viewing nights (March through October).
>
> That's a bit of a drive from Santa Rosa, but if we can we will.
>
> Thanks
>
In the summer, when the conditions are right, we have the darkest skies
within 100 miles of the SF Bay Area (or so we like to brag). The
marine layer comes in and covers up Gilroy, Hollister, Salinas, San
Juan Bautista and Soledad. The observatory is on the grounds of a
California State Park, and a lot of people come down for the program
and camp overnight.
Can I also suggest the Sonoma County Astronomical Society:
http://www.sonomaskies.org/ They have monthly meetings for young
astronomers in Sebastapol, a bit closer to you than Fremont Peak.
|
| | |
Date: 16 Dec 2006 10:25:38
From: LurfysMa
Subject: Re: Starter scope for 9 year old: StarBlast or SkyQuest?
|
On 15 Dec 2006 22:28:41 -0800, "Bill Hudson" <oldgeek61-951@yahoo.com >
wrote:
>
>LurfysMa wrote:
>> On 14 Dec 2006 12:54:18 -0800, "Bill Hudson" <oldgeek61-951@yahoo.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >After he's gotten his scope, invite him to come to one of the public
>> >viewing nights at the local astronomy clubs (there are several in the
>> >SF Bay Area) where he will find lots of helpful dedicated amateurs who
>> >will gladly help him use his scope, find interesting objects, and teach
>> >him the sky.
>>
>> The sales guy at Orion gave me a list of local astronomy clubs. There
>> is one in Santa Rosa, where he lives. I'll talk to his folks about
>> taking him. There is also one at Foothill College near me so maybe we
>> can go there when he;s ere visiting.
>>
>> >I am a member of the Fremont Peak Observatory Association
>> >(http://www.fpoa.net) and you're welcome to bring him down to Fremont
>> >Peak on one of our public viewing nights (March through October).
>>
>> That's a bit of a drive from Santa Rosa, but if we can we will.
>
>In the summer, when the conditions are right, we have the darkest skies
>within 100 miles of the SF Bay Area (or so we like to brag). The
>marine layer comes in and covers up Gilroy, Hollister, Salinas, San
>Juan Bautista and Soledad.
Does the marine layer that covers Gilroy also cover up the aroma of
garlic and onion? ;-)
>The observatory is on the grounds of a
>California State Park, and a lot of people come down for the program
>and camp overnight.
Sounds ike it might be worth the drive.
>Can I also suggest the Sonoma County Astronomical Society:
>http://www.sonomaskies.org/ They have monthly meetings for young
>astronomers in Sebastapol, a bit closer to you than Fremont Peak.
That one was on the list.
--
|
| |
Date: 17 Dec 2006 20:21:08
From: Patrick Edward Murray
Subject: Re: Starter scope for 9 year old: StarBlast or SkyQuest?
|
Been to Stellaphane and have seen these folks that can build a
telescope out of almost anything or design the heck out of it, of
course they can also collimate too.
Not everyone is adept at tweaking stuff like this.
|
| |
Date: 17 Dec 2006 20:18:30
From: Patrick Edward Murray
Subject: Re: Starter scope for 9 year old: StarBlast or SkyQuest?
|
Dennis,
I've done my share of collimation and have the "scars" to prove it.
I don't advise doing it.
|
| | |
Date: 19 Dec 2006 21:55:30
From: Trane Francks
Subject: Re: Starter scope for 9 year old: StarBlast or SkyQuest?
|
On 2006-12-18 13:18 +0900, Patrick Edward Murray wrote:
> Dennis,
>
> I've done my share of collimation and have the "scars" to prove it.
>
> I don't advise doing it.
I hate to say it, but I call that bad advice. It takes very little
practice to get comfortable collimating a small scope of the sort
discussed in this thread. The more you do it, the quicker and easier it
becomes. The more experienced an observer becomes, the more noticeable
the improvement in the image is after collimating.
When I got into astronomy not too terribly long ago, I bought a copy of
The Backyard Astronomer's Guide. The book's web site has a nice bit on
cleaning and collimation in Appendix B:
<http://www.backyardastronomy.com/pages/newintro.html >
The dobsonian I built was crappy, but my collimation was always on the
money. *GRIN*
trane
--
/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
// Trane Francks trane@gol.com Tokyo, Japan
// Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty.
|
| |
Date: 17 Dec 2006 12:03:46
From: Patrick Edward Murray
Subject: Re: Starter scope for 9 year old: StarBlast or SkyQuest?
|
Usually, Reflectors do not have to be collimated at all and it's
generally a good idea to not do it unless you are really very
mechanically inclined and have very good dexterity...if you do it
probably won't be difficult, if you are not, like I am or are a novice
or just don't want to..it's better to leave it up to someone else to
do.
It's always a very good idea to take a salesman with more than a pinch
of salt that is unless you know about the products that they sell and
you know the individual on a personal basis.
|
| | |
Date: 17 Dec 2006 21:49:27
From: LurfysMa
Subject: Re: Starter scope for 9 year old: StarBlast or SkyQuest?
|
On 17 Dec 2006 12:03:46 -0800, "Patrick Edward Murray"
<ed1ward2@verizon.net > wrote:
>Usually, Reflectors do not have to be collimated at all
Did you mean refractors?
>and it's
>generally a good idea to not do it unless you are really very
>mechanically inclined and have very good dexterity...if you do it
>probably won't be difficult, if you are not, like I am or are a novice
>or just don't want to..it's better to leave it up to someone else to
>do.
>It's always a very good idea to take a salesman with more than a pinch
>of salt that is unless you know about the products that they sell and
>you know the individual on a personal basis.
Well, yes, I generally do. But this guy seemed more knowledgeable than
most.
--
|
| | |
Date: 17 Dec 2006 17:53:23
From: Shawn
Subject: Re: Starter scope for 9 year old: StarBlast or SkyQuest?
|
Patrick Edward Murray wrote:
> Usually, Reflectors do not have to be collimated at all and it's
> generally a good idea to not do it unless you are really very
> mechanically inclined and have very good dexterity...if you do it
> probably won't be difficult, if you are not, like I am or are a novice
> or just don't want to..it's better to leave it up to someone else to
> do.
>
> It's always a very good idea to take a salesman with more than a pinch
> of salt that is unless you know about the products that they sell and
> you know the individual on a personal basis.
>
Huh? Did you miss type and mean refractors? Both of my SCTs and my dob
usually need a tweak in collimation. Never messed with my 80 mm
refractor or binos.
Shawn
|
| | |
Date: 17 Dec 2006 17:54:43
From: Shawn
Subject: Re: Starter scope for 9 year old: StarBlast or SkyQuest?
|
Patrick Edward Murray wrote:
> Usually, Reflectors do not have to be collimated at all and it's
> generally a good idea to not do it unless you are really very
> mechanically inclined and have very good dexterity...if you do it
> probably won't be difficult, if you are not, like I am or are a novice
> or just don't want to..it's better to leave it up to someone else to
> do.
>
> It's always a very good idea to take a salesman with more than a pinch
> of salt that is unless you know about the products that they sell and
> you know the individual on a personal basis.
>
Forgot to mention, one can collimate a newt while sleeping. Very simple.
Shawn
|
| | | |
Date: 17 Dec 2006 20:38:13
From: Dennis Woos
Subject: Re: Starter scope for 9 year old: StarBlast or SkyQuest?
|
> Forgot to mention, one can collimate a newt while sleeping. Very simple.
>
>
> Shawn
I feel sorry for folks who buy into the idea that newtonian collimation is
difficult and so avoid them. I wish I could spend 10 minutes with those who
make this claim, as that is all it would take to clear up any
misundertanding. Good 6"-10" dobs are outstanding instruments for general
visual observing, and are available at prices that are simply amazing.
Dennis
|
| | | | |
Date: 17 Dec 2006 18:40:54
From: Jan Owen
Subject: Re: Starter scope for 9 year old: StarBlast or SkyQuest?
|
"Dennis Woos" <dpwoos@gmavt.net > wrote in message
news:12obs86g90isi5b@corp.supernews.com...
>> Forgot to mention, one can collimate a newt while sleeping. Very simple.
>>
>>
>> Shawn
>
> I feel sorry for folks who buy into the idea that newtonian collimation is
> difficult and so avoid them. I wish I could spend 10 minutes with those
> who make this claim, as that is all it would take to clear up any
> misundertanding. Good 6"-10" dobs are outstanding instruments for general
> visual observing, and are available at prices that are simply amazing.
>
> Dennis
Agreed wholeheartedly!!!
--
Jan Owen
To reach me directly, remove the Z, if one appears in my e-mail address...
Latitude: 33.6
Longitude: -112.3
http://community.webshots.com/user/janowen21
|
| |
Date: 19 Dec 2006 08:36:16
From: Patrick Edward Murray
Subject: Re: Starter scope for 9 year old: StarBlast or SkyQuest?
|
What in the heck is so terribly wrong about advising to BE CAREFUL?
Many of these telescopes that folks own are more costly than $50.00
Binoculars.
Everyone brings their own set of gifts to Astronomy. Some are
mechanically inclined and can build anything and often do.
Many are not.
Some are truely "nerdy" with a pencil or slide rule or calculator or
computer attached to their bodies in some fashion and could calculate
"whatever" to the nearest nth degree.
Lots are not.
Some are good at telling stories and may find their way doing outreach
with their local club, some are not.
Some folks just want to observe and not be bothered about setting
circles etc.
And there is a book that even talks about all these things referring to
them as "The Jungle" but I've forgotten the title just now..
Again, I'm saying if you are not sure ask someone, join your local
astronomy club as many will have a couple of folks that are good with
collimation.
I just advise against it for good reason you see, I've been around for
50 years and I know something about the hobby because I've been doing
it for about the same amount of time.
|
| | |
Date: 19 Dec 2006 12:34:35
From: Brian Tung
Subject: Re: Starter scope for 9 year old: StarBlast or SkyQuest?
|
Patrick Edward Murray wrote:
> What in the heck is so terribly wrong about advising to BE CAREFUL?
That's not what you advised. You advised not doing it at all.
--
Brian Tung <brian@isi.edu >
The Astronomy Corner at http://astro.isi.edu/
Unofficial C5+ Home Page at http://astro.isi.edu/c5plus/
The PleiadAtlas Home Page at http://astro.isi.edu/pleiadatlas/
My Own Personal FAQ (SAA) at http://astro.isi.edu/reference/faq.html
|
| |
Date: 19 Dec 2006 18:22:41
From: Patrick Edward Murray
Subject: Re: Starter scope for 9 year old: StarBlast or SkyQuest?
|
As I said before, I don't advise it but if you must find someone who
can do it or at least be right there with you. Let's just say that I've
had the experience of messing up and that is why I say be careful.
And if you find fault with my advice then maybe you are better at that
then I am, but I never said I was.
Humility is something that I think astronomers learn if they don't
already have it.
The best professional amateur astronomers are pretty humble folks.
|
|
