Sodom's Cinders

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Date: 08 Nov 2006 21:30:24
From: Shawn
Subject: Sodom's Cinders

From: www.christiansky.com

"Officially known as M45 and commonly called The Pleiades (who were the
seven daughters of the ancient Greek god, Atlas), this open cluster of
stars is easily visible to the naked eye and looks like a pinch of
cinders in the sky. Its Christian name reminds us of that Old Testament
story involving Lot and his family, the story in which the sin-drenched
cities of Sodom and Gomorrah were set afire by the hand of God."

Lots more (or is that Lott's? more) where that came from.
Really something. Hmmm.

Shawn

Date: 10 Nov 2006 10:39:47
From: Llanzlan Klazmon the 15th
Subject: Re: Sodom's Cinders

Shawn <scurryfifewonniyne@fixthenumberscomcast.net > wrote in news:x_
6dnQzUA4l9M8_YnZ2dnUVZ_qWdnZ2d@comcast.com:

> From: www.christiansky.com
>
> "Officially known as M45 and commonly called The Pleiades (who were the
> seven daughters of the ancient Greek god, Atlas), this open cluster of
> stars is easily visible to the naked eye and looks like a pinch of
> cinders in the sky.

Down here we also call it Matariki. The Heliacal rising of Matariki marks
the start of the new year for the Maori. The name means "the eyes of
heaven" or something like that. The Japanese call it Subaru.

> Its Christian name

Chistian name? Sounds like revisionism going on here raher than tradition.

> reminds us of that Old Testament
> story involving Lot and his family, the story in which the sin-drenched
> cities of Sodom and Gomorrah were set afire by the hand of God."
>
> Lots more (or is that Lott's? more) where that came from.
> Really something. Hmmm.

That's one of the X rated stories of the bible. Lott getting up to mischief
with his daughters. Not recommended reading for children.

Klazmon.

>
>
> Shawn
>

Date: 09 Nov 2006 11:20:25
From: AustinMN
Subject: Re: Sodom's Cinders

Shawn wrote:
> From: www.christiansky.com
>
> "Officially known as M45 and commonly called The Pleiades (who were the
> seven daughters of the ancient Greek god, Atlas), this open cluster of
> stars is easily visible to the naked eye and looks like a pinch of
> cinders in the sky. Its Christian name reminds us of that Old Testament
> story involving Lot and his family, the story in which the sin-drenched
> cities of Sodom and Gomorrah were set afire by the hand of God."
>
> Lots more (or is that Lott's? more) where that came from.
> Really something. Hmmm.

You can always find those who create their own reality. Try searching
for "Bretharianism" some time. People who claim to not eat or drink -
ever.

And for the record, every English translation of the Bible that I know
of identifes them as "The Pleiadies" (and "Orion").

Austin

Date: 10 Nov 2006 04:22:39
From: james
Subject: Re: Sodom's Cinders

On 9 Nov 2006 11:20:25 -0800, "AustinMN" <tacooper260@hotmail.com >
wrote:

>+++Shawn wrote:
>+++> From: www.christiansky.com
>+++>
>+++> "Officially known as M45 and commonly called The Pleiades (who were the
>+++> seven daughters of the ancient Greek god, Atlas), this open cluster of
>+++> stars is easily visible to the naked eye and looks like a pinch of
>+++> cinders in the sky. Its Christian name reminds us of that Old Testament
>+++> story involving Lot and his family, the story in which the sin-drenched
>+++> cities of Sodom and Gomorrah were set afire by the hand of God."
>+++>
>+++> Lots more (or is that Lott's? more) where that came from.
>+++> Really something. Hmmm.
>+++
>+++You can always find those who create their own reality. Try searching
>+++for "Bretharianism" some time. People who claim to not eat or drink -
>+++ever.
>+++
>+++And for the record, every English translation of the Bible that I know
>+++of identifes them as "The Pleiadies" (and "Orion").
>+++
>+++Austin
****************

Young's Literal Translation of 1862 does not render Job 9:9 as
Arcturas, Pleiades and Orion. Instead Young leaves Job 9:9 as the
Hebrew names of Osh, Kesil, and Kimah. In Job 38:31 again Young does
nto render the Hewbrew names of Kesil and Kimah to Pleiades and Orion
respectively. Oddly enough that the 1611 KJ and the 1768 AV do not
render Kesil in Amos 5:8 as Pleiades. Instead it refers to the them as
the Seven Stars.

james

Date: 10 Nov 2006 06:52:36
From: Dr Min PhD
Subject: Re: Sodom's Cinders

Date: 10 Nov 2006 06:19:44
From: Dr Min PhD
Subject: Re: Sodom's Cinders

Date: 10 Nov 2006 00:10:54
From: Double-A
Subject: Re: Sodom's Cinders

Dr Min PhD wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>
> PS
>
> "nvmqvid conivngere ualebis micantes stellas Pliadis avt
> gyrvm Arctvri poteris dissipare"
>
> --Iob 38:31 editio Uvlgata
>
> "facientem Arctvrvm et Orionem et conuertentem in mane
> tenebras et diem nocte mvtantem qvi uocat aqvas maris
> et effvndit eas svper faciem terrae Dominvs nomen eivs"
>
> --Amos 5:8 ibidem
>
> Enjoy!
> Daniel Joseph Min

Rev 22:15 "foris canes et venefici et inpudici et homicidae et idolis
servientes et omnis qui amat et facit mendacium"

Date: 11 Nov 2006 10:47:17
From: Igor
Subject: Re: Sodom's Cinders

Dr Min PhD wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>
> "qvi facit Arctvrvm et Oriona et Hyadas et interiora
> avstri qvi facit magna et inconprehensibilia et
> mirabilia quorum non est numerus"
>
> --Iob 9:9, editio Uvlgata
>
> Enjoy!
> Daniel Joseph Min
>
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> iQA/AwUBRVQRyJljD7YrHM/nEQJ2EwCeOZl//P58KZfAc+3Mqs4onKKr72kAoK7+
> +UeKVn49mDrRIEq7vRUwCbRD
> =oGLI
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

...It's a very nice dance. Oh, I'm sorry, that was the Cinnamon Cinder.

Date: 11 Nov 2006 18:53:44
From: torresD
Subject: Re: Sodom's Cinders

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/786162.html

Portion of the Week / Complacency or compassion

By Benjamin Lau

In this week's Torah portion,
we read about Sodom's sinfulness
and its destruction.

Sodom is a symbol of an evil society -
of moral corruption, economic oppression
and sexual exploitation.

Lot wanders with his uncle Abraham
throughout the Promised Land,
sojourns with him in Egypt and
grows up under his tutelage.

The Torah hints that property issues
cause the disintegration of the
relationship between the two.

Seeking to preserve the extended
family unit and to avoid friction
and dispute,

Abraham suggests to Lot that
he settle in another part of
Canaan.

Lot's choice is very specific:

"And Lot lifted up his eyes,
and beheld all the plain of Jordan,
that it was well watered everywhere,
before the Lord destroyed Sodom and
Gomorrah,

even as the garden of the Lord,
like the land of Egypt,
as thou comest unto Zoar"
(Genesis 13:10).

His choice represents a dialectic
between Abraham's world of geography
and Sodom before it is erased from
the face of the earth:

Before its destruction,
Sodom is comparable to the
"garden of the Lord" -
that is, Eden - and Egypt.

The logic of this equation becomes
more clear when we learn that the
"plain of Jordan" is
"well watered everywhere."

Eden and Egypt are described
as areas blessed with abundant water.

The self-confidence displayed by
the Nile's residents parallels
that of Adam in Eden:

They neither fear drought nor
do they consider themselves
dependent on heaven's beneficence
(that is, in the form of rainfall).

Their apparent strength breeds
complacency and peace of mind.

In Lot's eyes,
Sodom's lifestyle conjures
up a similar image of power,
affluence and tranquillity.

His childhood memories and his
wanderings with Abraham in Egypt
because of the drought in Canaan
lead him to leap at the chance
of choosing Sodom.

In Egypt he saw an abundant,
confident, relaxed society,
and he personally is tired of
wandering along the Judean
mountain range between Bethel
and Hebron.

The Torah informs us,

"But the men of Sodom were wicked
and sinners before the Lord exceedingly"
(Gen. 13:13).

We discover the nature of their
sinfulness when two of the angels
arrive in Sodom at night to save
Lot and his family before the
city is destroyed.

The residents of Sodom do not
allow the visitors a peaceful
night's sleep: "...

the men of the city,
even the men of Sodom,
compassed the house round,
both old and young,

all the people from every quarter:

And they called unto Lot,
and said unto him,
Where are the men which
came in to thee this night?

Bring them out unto us,
that we may know them.

And Lot went out at the door unto them ...
And said, I pray you, brethren,
do not so wickedly" (Gen. 19:4-7).

Severe punishment

Rabbi Yitzhak Arama
(who lived around the time
of the expulsion of the Jews
from Spain and Portugal)

wondered why Sodom's punishment was so severe
("Akedat Yitzhak,"
the chapter on Parashat Vayera, section 20):

"The children of Israel sinned more
seriously on several occasions with
women who were far inferior to them,
committing robbery and unjust and
thoroughly immoral acts.

The appalled prophets rebuked them daily,
yet they were not punished as severely
as the residents of Sodom.

This is certainly puzzling."

In replying to his own question,
Arama argues that the explanation
is that there is a difference
between an individual's personal
sins and a whole society's
institutionalized sins.

Indeed, an entire system of social
alienation was constructed in Sodom.

Ezekiel points this out
when depicting Sodom:

"Behold,
this was the iniquity of
thy sister Sodom, pride,
fulness of bread,
and abundance of idleness
was in her and in her daughters,
neither did she strengthen the
hand of the poor and needy" (Ezekiel 16:49).

The midrash on this verse states:

"It was declared in Sodom that
all those who strengthened the
hand of the poor and needy with
a slice of bread would be burned
at the stake."

Affluence bred alienation and
complacency among the residents
of Sodom and made them indifferent
to the plight of others.

Their entire system of values
was mobilized to institutionalize
their cruelty,

and that is why God decides to destroy Sodom.

The midrash goes beyond what Ezekiel says
in the above verse and calls our attention
to a verse in this week's reading that
describes God's decision to destroy Sodom:

"And the Lord said,
Because the cry of Sodom
and Gomorrah is great,

and because their sin is very grievous;

I will go down now,
and see whether they have done
altogether according to the cry
of it, which is come unto me;
and if not, I will know" (Gen. 18:20-21).

According to the literal
interpretation of this verse,
God descends to hear the cries
of the city's poor and oppressed.

However,
the midrash provides another explanation:

"One day, Lot's daughter,
married to one of Sodom's
most affluent citizens,

saw a beggar searching for
food in the street and
pitied him.

The following day,
and each and every day,
when she left her home to
draw water,

she would take a
generous amount of food,
place it in her pitcher and
give it to the beggar.

People began to ask who was
keeping this beggar alive.

When it was discovered that
Lot's daughter was giving
him food,

she was sentenced to be
burned at the stake.

She called out to God,
'Master of the Universe,
avenge my death sentence
by punishing the people of Sodom!'

Her cry reached the divine throne
of honor and that is when God said,

'I will go down now, and see whether
the residents of Sodom have done
altogether according to the young
girl's cry.

I will make its foundations look
skyward and its towers burrow
into the ground."

Sodom's death sentence was signed
when Lot's daughter cried to God.

She alone paid the price of
the city's code of cruelty
to its poor.

The Torah does not forbid affluence per se.

However, it attacks the sinfulness
that an affluent society can breed -
the lack of compassion and the
creation of an entire legal code
that serves the rich while denying
the needs of the weak.

That is why God promises the
Jewish people the Land of Israel,
which "drinketh water of the rain
of heaven"

(Deuteronomy 11:11),

where our dependence on God's
mercy restrains our passions
and makes us less complacent
and much more compassionate.