Smoking on the grounds of a public star party

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Date: 28 Nov 2006 23:59:14
From: Dave Jessie
Subject: Smoking on the grounds of a public star party

OK, I admit I haven't been to any of the major observing events that take
place annually around the country, or else I'd already know the answer to
this question. Perhaps some will remember a similar question I posed a
couple years ago about this matter. Anyhow, here goes...

What's the rules regarding smoking on the grounds where folks have set up
equipment? Our 57 year old astronomy club is, once again, arguing about
this - well, some members are.

We FINALLY posted 'No Smoking' signs in our observatory after much heated
debate - and lost some members over it. The rest of us are relieved to be
out of the smoke, I assure you.

Is it the general rule that there's NO SMOKING anywhere on the grounds of an
observing event??

Clear Dark Steady Skies,
Dave Jessie

Date: 29 Nov 2006 13:08:57
From: Dennis Woos
Subject: Re: Smoking on the grounds of a public star party

"Dave Jessie" <DJesSHOESsie@neo.rr.com > wrote in message
news:456d13a5$0$6953$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
> OK, I admit I haven't been to any of the major observing events that take
> place annually around the country, or else I'd already know the answer to
> this question. Perhaps some will remember a similar question I posed a
> couple years ago about this matter. Anyhow, here goes...
>
> What's the rules regarding smoking on the grounds where folks have set up
> equipment? Our 57 year old astronomy club is, once again, arguing about
> this - well, some members are.
>
> We FINALLY posted 'No Smoking' signs in our observatory after much heated
> debate - and lost some members over it. The rest of us are relieved to be
> out of the smoke, I assure you.
>
> Is it the general rule that there's NO SMOKING anywhere on the grounds of
> an observing event??
>
> Clear Dark Steady Skies,
> Dave Jessie

You know, I never noticed before but our club doesn't have any members that
smoke while observing, or at least that I have ever seen. Smoking is
definitely something that has died out, at least among folks that I know.
It must be brutal to be a smoker, as second-hand smoke and smoke odor is
simply unacceptable to a lot of people - especially ex-smokers.

Dennis

Date: 29 Nov 2006 18:22:07
From: Chris L Peterson
Subject: Re: Smoking on the grounds of a public star party

On Wed, 29 Nov 2006 13:08:57 -0500, "Dennis Woos" <dpwoos@gmavt.net >
wrote:

>You know, I never noticed before but our club doesn't have any members that
>smoke while observing, or at least that I have ever seen. Smoking is
>definitely something that has died out...

Appropriate choice of words.

> at least among folks that I know...

Or knew.

_________________________________________________

Chris L Peterson
Cloudbait Observatory
http://www.cloudbait.com

Date: 29 Nov 2006 10:08:01
From: Rich
Subject: Re: Smoking on the grounds of a public star party

Date: 29 Nov 2006 09:21:25
From:
Subject: Re: Smoking on the grounds of a public star party

AM wrote:
> I don't know about other places, but at public events
> round here, I have smoked, and quite a few of the
> public do there as well. At public, and private events
> I always try and setup downwind, and or walk away
> from everyone else. I make a point of it every time.
> Other members in our club smoke as well.

Same here, outdoors only, never in an observatory. Setting up
perpendicular to the wind is better. I've had things with clear plastic
faceplates (SW radio, tape recorder, etc) ruined by people squirting
bug spray all around. This is far more destructive than tobacco smoke,
and they always refuse to accept responsibility for damaging another's
equipment. Also, being downwind of people using "musky" personal care
products practially ensures getting bug bit.

Quite a few insist that the spraying absolutely has to be done. If
these same people would take a shower, and lay off the colognes/
perfumes, they probably wouldn't need(?) the bug sprays.

Doug Kniffen

Date: 29 Nov 2006 18:39:14
From: AM
Subject: Re: Smoking on the grounds of a public star party

dk@usmo.com wrote:

> Quite a few insist that the spraying absolutely has to be done. If
> these same people would take a shower, and lay off the colognes/
> perfumes, they probably wouldn't need(?) the bug sprays.
>
>
> Doug Kniffen
>

I always wondered about this as well. It seems that
a lot of people these days (younger crowd) thinks it's
cool to not shave, not shower, but... wear musk cologne
(read dead animal here) and then go out in public.
Whats the deal ? You think I like smelling decaying flesh ?
They are also the same people who think slipping the
periodic four letter word into EVERY conversation is
necessary too. I spent half my life working construction,
I really don't need to hear anymore of that either.

We each have different ideas of what is good and bad......

AM

Date: 29 Nov 2006 11:50:10
From: Bob Tenney
Subject: Re: Smoking on the grounds of a public star party

On Tue, 28 Nov 2006 23:59:14 -0500, Dave Jessie wrote:

>
> Is it the general rule that there's NO SMOKING anywhere on the grounds of an
> observing event??
>
> Clear Dark Steady Skies,
> Dave Jessie

You'd think some people would object more to the cigarette lighter than
the cigarette...

Date: 30 Nov 2006 02:27:35
From: Humble Pie
Subject: Re: Smoking on the grounds of a public star party

Bob Tenney wrote:

> On Tue, 28 Nov 2006 23:59:14 -0500, Dave Jessie wrote:
>
> >
> > Is it the general rule that there's NO SMOKING anywhere on the grounds of an
> > observing event??
> >
> > Clear Dark Steady Skies,
> > Dave Jessie
>
> You'd think some people would object more to the cigarette lighter than
> the cigarette...

Some do. Any light, anywhere - even as planes fly overhead, skylight
glows, and when they want a light of course then a light goes on.
And for some wierd reason these same people love green lasers and
were very upset when we had to ban them because we are on an
airport approach.

Some people just like to complain and need to be the centre of attention, others
will actually go off and find a dark site if thats
what they want. If I were going to do something serious and could,
I would even go off and find a dark site and I know of many not
too far from where I live.

Date: 29 Nov 2006 08:50:10
From: laura halliday
Subject: Re: Smoking on the grounds of a public star party

Dave Jessie wrote:
> OK, I admit I haven't been to any of the major observing events that take
> place annually around the country, or else I'd already know the answer to
> this question. Perhaps some will remember a similar question I posed a
> couple years ago about this matter. Anyhow, here goes...
>
> What's the rules regarding smoking on the grounds where folks have set up
> equipment? Our 57 year old astronomy club is, once again, arguing about
> this - well, some members are.
>
> We FINALLY posted 'No Smoking' signs in our observatory after much heated
> debate - and lost some members over it. The rest of us are relieved to be
> out of the smoke, I assure you.
>
> Is it the general rule that there's NO SMOKING anywhere on the grounds of an
> observing event??

Common sense is a good place to start. If there's a fire
hazard, smokers must be careful. Non-smokers don't
generally care to smell cigarette smoke, and with tele-
scopes set up can't move easily. So stay away.

Smoking and optics don't mix. If you want to get crud
on your scope's optics, that's your choice. But you will
keep your cigarettes the hell away from *my* scopes.

The onus is generally on the smokers nowadays. If they
don't like it, they are welcome to quit.

Laura Halliday VE7LDH "Que les nuages soient notre
Grid: CN89mg pied a terre..."
ICBM: 49 16.05 N 122 56.92 W - Hospital/Shafte

Date: 29 Nov 2006 07:51:28
From: Tom Polakis
Subject: Re: Smoking on the grounds of a public star party

Chris L Peterson wrote:

> I've always liked that picture, but I've also heard that he did not, in
> fact, smoke in the observatory, but rather kept an unlit pipe in his
> mouth (not uncommon for pipe smokers when they aren't smoking).

I remember reading in Richard Preston's "First Light" that Rudolph
Minkowski routinely smoked in the prime focus cage of the 200"
telescope. Sombody has posted it on his astro-trivia site.

http://www.starbase1.co.uk/astrotrivia.htm

"Smoking is very strictly forbidden in the prime focus cage, for
obvious reasons. However the cage always reeked of cigarette smoke
after Minkowsky had been in it, though it was difficult to work out
what he was doing with the cigarette ends. The night assistants worked
out he was throwing them onto the main mirror."

Date: 29 Nov 2006 16:26:55
From: Chris L Peterson
Subject: Re: Smoking on the grounds of a public star party

On 29 Nov 2006 07:51:28 -0800, "Tom Polakis" <polakisgroups@cox.net >
wrote:

>"Smoking is very strictly forbidden in the prime focus cage, for
>obvious reasons. However the cage always reeked of cigarette smoke
>after Minkowsky had been in it, though it was difficult to work out
>what he was doing with the cigarette ends. The night assistants worked
>out he was throwing them onto the main mirror."

It could be worse. My astronomy advisor at Caltech once dropped a 40
pound astrocamera from the prime focus cage. He was hugely lucky that a
guy wire deflected it as it fell, and it missed the mirror. It could
have done huge damage. I believe he was disinvited from future use of
the Hale, and afterwards became a well respected solar astronomer.

_________________________________________________

Chris L Peterson
Cloudbait Observatory
http://www.cloudbait.com

Date: 29 Nov 2006 18:36:51
From: Bob Schmall
Subject: Re: Smoking on the grounds of a public star party

Chris L Peterson wrote:
> On 29 Nov 2006 07:51:28 -0800, "Tom Polakis" <polakisgroups@cox.net>
> wrote:
>
>
>>"Smoking is very strictly forbidden in the prime focus cage, for
>>obvious reasons. However the cage always reeked of cigarette smoke
>>after Minkowsky had been in it, though it was difficult to work out
>>what he was doing with the cigarette ends. The night assistants worked
>>out he was throwing them onto the main mirror."
>
>
> It could be worse. My astronomy advisor at Caltech once dropped a 40
> pound astrocamera from the prime focus cage. He was hugely lucky that a
> guy wire deflected it as it fell, and it missed the mirror. It could
> have done huge damage. I believe he was disinvited from future use of
> the Hale, and afterwards became a well respected solar astronomer.

Despite being barred from the McMath.... ; >)

Date: 29 Nov 2006 15:15:06
From: Chris L Peterson
Subject: Re: Smoking on the grounds of a public star party

On Tue, 28 Nov 2006 23:59:14 -0500, "Dave Jessie"
<DJesSHOESsie@neo.rr.com > wrote:

>What's the rules regarding smoking on the grounds where folks have set up
>equipment? Our 57 year old astronomy club is, once again, arguing about
>this - well, some members are.

At our small club parties, the few smokers do smoke. I've never seen
anyone do it near other's scopes, though. No rules required, just
reasonable behavior. At small public parties (e.g. school outreach) I
don't think I've seen anybody smoke. Again, no rules. At our big annual
party, Rocky Mountain Star Stare, there have not historically been rules
against smoking. In the last few years, however, NFS and county fire
regulations have relegated smokers to the interior of their cars without
the club needing to make its own rules.

>We FINALLY posted 'No Smoking' signs in our observatory after much heated
>debate - and lost some members over it. The rest of us are relieved to be
>out of the smoke, I assure you.

Anybody who would smoke inside an observatory is somebody you're better
off without. You shouldn't even need a rule that forbids that!

_________________________________________________

Chris L Peterson
Cloudbait Observatory
http://www.cloudbait.com

Date: 29 Nov 2006 09:48:55
From: AM
Subject: Re: Smoking on the grounds of a public star party

Dave Jessie wrote:

> Is it the general rule that there's NO SMOKING anywhere on the grounds of an
> observing event??
>
> Clear Dark Steady Skies,
> Dave Jessie
>
>

I don't know about other places, but at public events
round here, I have smoked, and quite a few of the
public do there as well. At public, and private events
I always try and setup downwind, and or walk away
from everyone else. I make a point of it every time.
Other members in our club smoke as well.

But most observing fields are large, and I see no
reason why both types of people cant exist at the
same time at such an event.

I mean we are in the outdoors after all.....

AM

Date: 29 Nov 2006 06:46:19
From: Tom Polakis
Subject: Re: Smoking on the grounds of a public star party

Trailer Trash ReUnion wrote:
> I fight with the "assholes" in my club about this all the time to no avail -
> and I am a smoker!!!!!!!!!!! Smoking in an observatory next to the
> telescopes I have cleaned and maintained etc for years? Go somplace else. Im a
> smoker and I dont do it! Smoking on the grounds next to people doing
> astronomy? Have some damned manners and go off to
> the side or into the woods! Why does this even require debate?

This a-hole used to smoke next to the telescope all the time, and then
they went and named the Space Telescope after him!

http://opostaff.stsci.edu/~levay/presres/ehubble/jpeg/10_12-17.jpg

Tom

Date: 29 Nov 2006 15:09:52
From: Chris L Peterson
Subject: Re: Smoking on the grounds of a public star party

On 29 Nov 2006 06:46:19 -0800, "Tom Polakis" <polakisgroups@cox.net >
wrote:

>This a-hole used to smoke next to the telescope all the time, and then
>they went and named the Space Telescope after him!
>
>http://opostaff.stsci.edu/~levay/presres/ehubble/jpeg/10_12-17.jpg

<g >

I've always liked that picture, but I've also heard that he did not, in
fact, smoke in the observatory, but rather kept an unlit pipe in his
mouth (not uncommon for pipe smokers when they aren't smoking).

_________________________________________________

Chris L Peterson
Cloudbait Observatory
http://www.cloudbait.com

Date: 29 Nov 2006 16:50:20
From: Mark Gingrich
Subject: Re: Smoking on the grounds of a public star party

Chris L Peterson wrote:

> I've always liked that picture, but I've also heard that he did not, in
> fact, smoke in the observatory, but rather kept an unlit pipe in his
> mouth (not uncommon for pipe smokers when they aren't smoking).

Perhaps his publicist (see S&T, January 2007, page 110) convinced
him to adopt that particular affectation so as to appear more
"professorial." ;)

--
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
Mark Gingrich grinch@rahul.net San Leandro, California

Date: 30 Nov 2006 02:12:31
From: Humble Pie
Subject: Re: Smoking on the grounds of a public star party

Mark Gingrich wrote:

> Chris L Peterson wrote:
>
> > I've always liked that picture, but I've also heard that he did not, in
> > fact, smoke in the observatory, but rather kept an unlit pipe in his
> > mouth (not uncommon for pipe smokers when they aren't smoking).
>
> Perhaps his publicist (see S&T, January 2007, page 110) convinced
> him to adopt that particular affectation so as to appear more
> "professorial." ;)
>

He wouldnt be the first. I can name at least two notables who strut
around with cigars or pipes in their mouths, when it is appropriate,
and havent smoked in 20 years. I can name another who used to
open the upper right hand drawer of his desk and point to the fancy
corncob pipe with long stem and chuckle - "always on the ready"
but he hadnt smoked in years. In fact his doctor scared him to death
one summer because of a swelling in his throat that wouldnt go away.
He quit cigarettes (which you see in his WWII photos) and bought several
pipes, but never really liked pipe smoking and hated the
thought of lip or mouth cancer so gave up smoking completely -
died years later of lung cancer.

...

>
> --
> ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
> Mark Gingrich grinch@rahul.net San Leandro, California

Date: 30 Nov 2006 02:04:46
From: Humble Pie
Subject: Re: Smoking on the grounds of a public star party

Chris L Peterson wrote:

> On 29 Nov 2006 06:46:19 -0800, "Tom Polakis" <polakisgroups@cox.net>
> wrote:
>
> >This a-hole used to smoke next to the telescope all the time, and then
> >they went and named the Space Telescope after him!
> >
> >http://opostaff.stsci.edu/~levay/presres/ehubble/jpeg/10_12-17.jpg
>
> <g>
>
> I've always liked that picture, but I've also heard that he did not, in
> fact, smoke in the observatory, but rather kept an unlit pipe in his
> mouth (not uncommon for pipe smokers when they aren't smoking).
>
>

Thats the truth. Nervous tension. Teeth worn down but his optics clean.
Thanks for posting that....

> _________________________________________________
>
> Chris L Peterson
> Cloudbait Observatory
> http://www.cloudbait.com

Date: 29 Nov 2006 16:18:35
From: William Hamblen
Subject: Re: Smoking on the grounds of a public star party

On 29 Nov 2006 06:46:19 -0800, "Tom Polakis" <polakisgroups@cox.net >
wrote:

>This a-hole used to smoke next to the telescope all the time, and then
>they went and named the Space Telescope after him!
>
>http://opostaff.stsci.edu/~levay/presres/ehubble/jpeg/10_12-17.jpg

The story is that the night assistants at Mt Hamilton used to stash
their cigarette butts in the mirror cell of the Crossley reflector.

Who was the astronomer who discovered a sodium emission line in a
stellar spectrum after lighting up?

Bud
--
The night is just the shadow of the Earth.

Date: 07 Dec 2006 11:20:48
From: Mike Simmons
Subject: Re: Smoking on the grounds of a public star party

On 29 Nov 2006 06:46:19 -0800, Tom Polakis wrote:

> Trailer Trash ReUnion wrote:
>> I fight with the "assholes" in my club about this all the time to no avail -
>> and I am a smoker!!!!!!!!!!! Smoking in an observatory next to the
>> telescopes I have cleaned and maintained etc for years? Go somplace else. Im a
>> smoker and I dont do it! Smoking on the grounds next to people doing
>> astronomy? Have some damned manners and go off to
>> the side or into the woods! Why does this even require debate?
>
>
> This a-hole used to smoke next to the telescope all the time, and then
> they went and named the Space Telescope after him!
>
> http://opostaff.stsci.edu/~levay/presres/ehubble/jpeg/10_12-17.jpg
>
> Tom

This is an old thread but I've been out of town and just saw it. So for
anyone who's still reading...

As has been pointed out by others, Hubble may have just posed with the pipe
and/or kept it in his mouth while observing. There are many examples of
posed shots that Hubble took advantage of. One very well-known shot (which
I think was even used on a US postage stamp) shows Hubble at the eyepiece
of the guide scope of the then-new 48-inch Schmidt telescope at Palomar.
But Hubble never used that telescope; the shot was pure PR. Oh, and he had
a pipe in his mouth in that one, too.

As to whether or not he really did smoke while observing, that's unknown.
I've asked someone who was around on Mt. Wilson while Hubble was observing
but he doesn't recall if he had the pipe lit or not. You'll notice that
there is no smoke coming from the pipe in any of the PR photos. The same
is true for some old newsreel movies I've seen. So it's a mystery of the
Universe that may never be known. Which will not, of course, keep the
subject from coming up on astronomy forums for generations to come. :-)

Mike Simmons
Mount Wilson Observatory Association

Date: 29 Nov 2006 06:23:45
From: AustinMN
Subject: Re: Smoking on the grounds of a public star party

Trailer Trash ReUnion wrote:
<nothing of value >

Looks like we've picked up another one. Name kind of makes it
obvious...

Austin

Date: 29 Nov 2006 04:30:40
From: RMOLLISE
Subject: Re: Smoking on the grounds of a public star party

Yeah, well, _some_ of the people in 'em, anyway. ;-)

Trailer Trash ReUnion wrote:
>
> Fuck astronomy clubs and the ASSHOLES in them!

Date: 29 Nov 2006 04:26:35
From: RMOLLISE
Subject: Re: Smoking on the grounds of a public star party

Date: 29 Nov 2006 01:43:29
From: Trailer Trash ReUnion
Subject: Re: Smoking on the grounds of a public star party

Dave Jessie wrote:

> OK, I admit I haven't been to any of the major observing events that take
> place annually around the country, or else I'd already know the answer to
> this question. Perhaps some will remember a similar question I posed a
> couple years ago about this matter. Anyhow, here goes...
>
> What's the rules regarding smoking on the grounds where folks have set up
> equipment? Our 57 year old astronomy club is, once again, arguing about
> this - well, some members are.
>
> We FINALLY posted 'No Smoking' signs in our observatory after much heated
> debate - and lost some members over it. The rest of us are relieved to be
> out of the smoke, I assure you.
>
> Is it the general rule that there's NO SMOKING anywhere on the grounds of an
> observing event??
>
> Clear Dark Steady Skies,
> Dave Jessie

I fight with the "assholes" in my club about this all the time to no avail -
and I am a smoker!!!!!!!!!!! Smoking in an observatory next to the
telescopes I have cleaned and maintained etc for years? Go somplace else. Im a
smoker and I dont do it! Smoking on the grounds next to people doing
astronomy? Have some damned manners and go off to
the side or into the woods! Why does this even require debate?

We have some who try and do bring their dogs and cats into our
observatories - I just go nuts but I get punished if I say a word. We
have another guy who insists on having his cigar at the eyepiece -
our Astronomique Extraordinaire Royale. We have another idiot
who actually tells his kids to piss in some corner of the building
vs going outside! ............... You name it - Ive seen it.

Fuck astronomy clubs and the ASSHOLES in them!

Iowa Astronomer.

Date: 29 Nov 2006 18:42:44
From: Bob Schmall
Subject: Re: Smoking on the grounds of a public star party

Trailer Trash ReUnion wrote:

>
> Fuck astronomy clubs and the ASSHOLES in them!
>
> Iowa Astronomer.

...and everyone who looks like them.

We hold our annual star party (WOW) in a state park and in 15 years I
have never noticed anyone smoking, so it is not an apparent problem. As
several people pointed out, just keep it sensible and there should be no
problem.

Bob

Date: 29 Nov 2006 01:10:16
From: Davoud
Subject: Re: Smoking on the grounds of a public star party

Dave Jessie wrote:

> OK, I admit I haven't been to any of the major observing events that take
> place annually around the country, or else I'd already know the answer to
> this question. Perhaps some will remember a similar question I posed a
> couple years ago about this matter. Anyhow, here goes...
>
> What's the rules regarding smoking on the grounds where folks have set up
> equipment? Our 57 year old astronomy club is, once again, arguing about
> this - well, some members are.
>
> We FINALLY posted 'No Smoking' signs in our observatory after much heated
> debate - and lost some members over it. The rest of us are relieved to be
> out of the smoke, I assure you.
>
> Is it the general rule that there's NO SMOKING anywhere on the grounds of an
> observing event??

I don't believe that my club has a written rule. But nobody smokes on
the observing field at our star parties, which are held in a county
park that is large enough to permit smokers to move some distance away
when they want to light up. In today's social climate that is
considered proper behaviour no matter what the occasion or venue. We
have bought a 10-ft dome that will house a restored antique refractor
for use in public outreach. Smoking will definitely be banned in the
observatory.

Davoud

--
usenet *at* davidillig dawt com

Date: 29 Nov 2006 01:45:24
From: Trailer Trash ReUnion
Subject: Re: Smoking on the grounds of a public star party

Davoud wrote:

> Dave Jessie wrote:
>
> > OK, I admit I haven't been to any of the major observing events that take
> > place annually around the country, or else I'd already know the answer to
> > this question. Perhaps some will remember a similar question I posed a
> > couple years ago about this matter. Anyhow, here goes...
> >
> > What's the rules regarding smoking on the grounds where folks have set up
> > equipment? Our 57 year old astronomy club is, once again, arguing about
> > this - well, some members are.
> >
> > We FINALLY posted 'No Smoking' signs in our observatory after much heated
> > debate - and lost some members over it. The rest of us are relieved to be
> > out of the smoke, I assure you.
> >
> > Is it the general rule that there's NO SMOKING anywhere on the grounds of an
> > observing event??
>
> I don't believe that my club has a written rule. But nobody smokes on
> the observing field at our star parties, which are held in a county
> park that is large enough to permit smokers to move some distance away
> when they want to light up. In today's social climate that is
> considered proper behaviour no matter what the occasion or venue. We
> have bought a 10-ft dome that will house a restored antique refractor
> for use in public outreach. Smoking will definitely be banned in the
> observatory.
>
> Davoud
>

You better oput a smoke detector in it for proof! I guarantee you
some jerk will smoke int heir sometime - absolute guarantee of the
priveleged class (the same assholes that dont want telescopes covcered and dont
want to pay for a gate key who are the club
Presidnet's best friend)! Good_luck.

>
> --
> usenet *at* davidillig dawt com

Date: 29 Nov 2006 08:57:59
From: Davoud
Subject: Re: Smoking on the grounds of a public star party

Davoud:
> > I don't believe that my club has a written rule. But nobody smokes on
> > the observing field at our star parties, which are held in a county
> > park that is large enough to permit smokers to move some distance away
> > when they want to light up. In today's social climate that is
> > considered proper behaviour no matter what the occasion or venue. We
> > have bought a 10-ft dome that will house a restored antique refractor
> > for use in public outreach. Smoking will definitely be banned in the
> > observatory.

Trailer Trash ReUnion:
> You better oput a smoke detector in it for proof! I guarantee you
> some jerk will smoke int heir sometime - absolute guarantee of the
> priveleged class (the same assholes that dont want telescopes covcered and
> dont want to pay for a gate key who are the club Presidnet's best friend)!

Sorry to hear about the problems your club is having.

Davoud

--
usenet *at* davidillig dawt com

Date: 30 Nov 2006 01:59:47
From: Humble Pie
Subject: Re: Smoking on the grounds of a public star party

Davoud wrote:

> Davoud:
> > > I don't believe that my club has a written rule. But nobody smokes on
> > > the observing field at our star parties, which are held in a county
> > > park that is large enough to permit smokers to move some distance away
> > > when they want to light up. In today's social climate that is
> > > considered proper behaviour no matter what the occasion or venue. We
> > > have bought a 10-ft dome that will house a restored antique refractor
> > > for use in public outreach. Smoking will definitely be banned in the
> > > observatory.
>
> Trailer Trash ReUnion:
> > You better oput a smoke detector in it for proof! I guarantee you
> > some jerk will smoke int heir sometime - absolute guarantee of the
> > priveleged class (the same assholes that dont want telescopes covcered and
> > dont want to pay for a gate key who are the club Presidnet's best friend)!
>
> Sorry to hear about the problems your club is having.
>
> Davoud
>

You just cannot convince some people that everything a club does,
all the hard work, sacrifice, study, etc etc, is simply to give people
an opportunity they would not have otherwise - which if they cant at least
respect, at least should not abuse.

There is so much petty jealousy and envy in clubs, no matter what
you say or do. It afflicts the highest to the lowest. The average Joe
just comes and goes and smiles and is glad, but one sour appel and
everything comes apart at the seams, literally.

I take great pride in our club and that is probably my ego working,
and my weak point. We have some of the most wonderful, talented,
most agreeable and friendly people you could have in the club,
people you actually look forward to being with if only for an hour,
and then a handful of snakes! The leadership absolutely refuses to
do anything about the snakes on the premise 'we cant chase people away', and so
the snakes work their evil crap over and over again
until even a blind man could see it! Im no genius at public relations
and I will admit it - most in this group would quickly testify to that
yourself included - but there really does come a point where my
optimism wears out and paranoia almost takes over, and I keep
telling msyelf I did not join this astronomy club to be a social worker
with a small group of misfits and there is nothing I can do, and the
minute I say that I am put down for having admited defeat!

I smile and go back outside to look up at the sky! Sweet Charity -
Save us! (and he answers: Dummy, you dont need saving).

I pray you see the humor in it.

Sincerely.

>
> --
> usenet *at* davidillig dawt com

Date: 30 Nov 2006 08:12:08
From: AM
Subject: Re: Smoking on the grounds of a public star party

Humble Pie wrote:

> There is so much petty jealousy and envy in clubs,

Ya aint seen nothin till you've seen our local
plastic modelers club (local IPMS) get together.
So bad, us non members call it the pentagon boy's club.
To the point, where at contests, it seemed that
the awards were given to members on a rotating basis,
not on quality of workmanship. A real dog and pony show.
Watching a bunch of middle aged me arguing over
plastic models isn't becoming to anyone
(tho the model miniature people are awesome !!)

BTW, just what do these *snakes* do ?
We got over 600 members in our club, and I have yet
to meet a kook, and or someone who was mean.
What I have figured out, is that in our, and probably
most clubs, it is maybe 10% of the membership that
does all the work. and repeatedly so. They get tired
and frustrated, but I have never seen any meanness.

If ya ask me, astronomers are some of the nicest most
polite people. Right after law abiding gun owners :)

AM

Date: 30 Nov 2006 07:33:36
From: Shawn
Subject: Re: Smoking on the grounds of a public star party

AM wrote:
> Humble Pie wrote:
>
>> There is so much petty jealousy and envy in clubs,
>
>
>
> Ya aint seen nothin till you've seen our local
> plastic modelers club (local IPMS) get together.
> So bad, us non members call it the pentagon boy's club.
> To the point, where at contests, it seemed that
> the awards were given to members on a rotating basis,
> not on quality of workmanship. A real dog and pony show.
> Watching a bunch of middle aged me arguing over
> plastic models isn't becoming to anyone
> (tho the model miniature people are awesome !!)
>
>
> BTW, just what do these *snakes* do ?
> We got over 600 members in our club, and I have yet
> to meet a kook, and or someone who was mean.
> What I have figured out, is that in our, and probably
> most clubs, it is maybe 10% of the membership that
> does all the work. and repeatedly so. They get tired
> and frustrated, but I have never seen any meanness.
>
>
> If ya ask me, astronomers are some of the nicest most
> polite people. Right after law abiding gun owners :)

I've never heard of a dispute between friends erupting in telescope
fire. ;-)

Shawn

Date: 29 Nov 2006 16:44:42
From: Matthew Ota
Subject: Re: Smoking on the grounds of a public star party

One club that I am in, the Orange County Astronomers, has had a no
smoking rule in its printed site rules for years. But it was ignored in
general until we had a brush fire sweep through or site two years ago.
Then the board had me put up posted no smoking signs all over the site.

This was after I had suggested that I put up the signs the year before,
and the idea was rejected ("We already have that in the rules."). But
things changed after the fire.

In general, cigarette smoke is bad for optics. In addition, at least in
California, smoking has such a bad stigma now that it is pretty much
socially unacceptable to smoke cigarettes now. But people here still
light up their marijuana joints, mistakenly rationalizing that pot is
"natural" and "medicinal". Unfiltered joints are even more damaging to
the lungs than filtered cigarettes. And they try to use a medicinal
excuse just to get high.

For that matter, alcohol and telescopes do not mix, either. Alcohol
make the eyesight degrade.

Matthew Ota

Dave Jessie wrote:
> OK, I admit I haven't been to any of the major observing events that take
> place annually around the country, or else I'd already know the answer to
> this question. Perhaps some will remember a similar question I posed a
> couple years ago about this matter. Anyhow, here goes...
>
> What's the rules regarding smoking on the grounds where folks have set up
> equipment? Our 57 year old astronomy club is, once again, arguing about
> this - well, some members are.
>
> We FINALLY posted 'No Smoking' signs in our observatory after much heated
> debate - and lost some members over it. The rest of us are relieved to be
> out of the smoke, I assure you.
>
> Is it the general rule that there's NO SMOKING anywhere on the grounds of an
> observing event??
>
> Clear Dark Steady Skies,
> Dave Jessie

Date: 29 Nov 2006 21:34:17
From: Davoud
Subject: Re: Smoking on the grounds of a public star party

Matthew Ota wrote:
> ...

> In general, cigarette smoke is bad for optics. In addition, at least in
> California, smoking has such a bad stigma now that it is pretty much
> socially unacceptable to smoke cigarettes now. But people here still
> light up their marijuana joints, mistakenly rationalizing that pot is
> "natural" and "medicinal". Unfiltered joints are even more damaging to
> the lungs than filtered cigarettes. And they try to use a medicinal
> excuse just to get high.
>
> For that matter, alcohol and telescopes do not mix, either. Alcohol
> make the eyesight degrade.

Gee, talk about a spoilsport!

Davoud

--
usenet *at* davidillig dawt com

Date: 30 Nov 2006 02:35:59
From: Humble Pie
Subject: Re: Smoking on the grounds of a public star party

Matthew Ota wrote:

> One club that I am in, the Orange County Astronomers, has had a no
> smoking rule in its printed site rules for years. But it was ignored in
> general until we had a brush fire sweep through or site two years ago.
> Then the board had me put up posted no smoking signs all over the site.
>
> This was after I had suggested that I put up the signs the year before,
> and the idea was rejected ("We already have that in the rules."). But
> things changed after the fire.
>
> In general, cigarette smoke is bad for optics. In addition, at least in
> California, smoking has such a bad stigma now that it is pretty much
> socially unacceptable to smoke cigarettes now. But people here still
> light up their marijuana joints, mistakenly rationalizing that pot is
> "natural" and "medicinal". Unfiltered joints are even more damaging to
> the lungs than filtered cigarettes. And they try to use a medicinal
> excuse just to get high.
>
> For that matter, alcohol and telescopes do not mix, either. Alcohol
> make the eyesight degrade.
>
> Matthew Ota
>
> Dave Jessie wrote:
> > OK, I admit I haven't been to any of the major observing events that take
> > place annually around the country, or else I'd already know the answer to
> > this question. Perhaps some will remember a similar question I posed a
> > couple years ago about this matter. Anyhow, here goes...
> >
> > What's the rules regarding smoking on the grounds where folks have set up
> > equipment? Our 57 year old astronomy club is, once again, arguing about
> > this - well, some members are.
> >
> > We FINALLY posted 'No Smoking' signs in our observatory after much heated
> > debate - and lost some members over it. The rest of us are relieved to be
> > out of the smoke, I assure you.
> >
> > Is it the general rule that there's NO SMOKING anywhere on the grounds of an
> > observing event??
> >
> > Clear Dark Steady Skies,
> > Dave Jessie

We have two guys in our club that I have never seen sober.
One is passive and never has caused a problem. The other is type-A
and has contributed " a lot" to our club, but something turned sour
and we are all struggling with the downside we are powerless to
do anything about except be a little self defensive and very cautious.
It is extraordinarily sad but the destructive blowback for the club is
very real. .

Clubs are people. That says it all.

Date: 29 Nov 2006 19:40:53
From: Craig
Subject: Re: Smoking on the grounds of a public star party

Our Club has a no smoking rule at the dark sky site our club owns. The
only place smoking is allowed is in a person's car. This seems to work
pretty well.

We have a couple of reasons for this rule, the least of which is that
we have a lot of dry brush and where we are smoking is a very big fire
hazard.

Craig
--
Remove My_Skin to E-mail me.

Dave Jessie wrote:

> OK, I admit I haven't been to any of the major observing events that
> take place annually around the country, or else I'd already know the
> answer to this question. Perhaps some will remember a similar
> question I posed a couple years ago about this matter. Anyhow, here
> goes...
>
> What's the rules regarding smoking on the grounds where folks have
> set up equipment? Our 57 year old astronomy club is, once again,
> arguing about this - well, some members are.
>
> We FINALLY posted 'No Smoking' signs in our observatory after much
> heated debate - and lost some members over it. The rest of us are
> relieved to be out of the smoke, I assure you.
>
> Is it the general rule that there's NO SMOKING anywhere on the
> grounds of an observing event??
>
> Clear Dark Steady Skies,
> Dave Jessie

Date: 30 Nov 2006 02:01:33
From: Humble Pie
Subject: Re: Smoking on the grounds of a public star party

You are absolutely right Rod. Thanks for the reminder.

RMOLLISE wrote:

> Yeah, well, _some_ of the people in 'em, anyway. ;-)
>
> Trailer Trash ReUnion wrote:
> >
> > Fuck astronomy clubs and the ASSHOLES in them!

Date: 30 Nov 2006 11:55:31
From: Gil
Subject: Re: Smoking on the grounds of a public star party

I think the previous post said it best. Just a little common courtesy
goes a loooong way towards preventing these types of problems.

Date: 08 Dec 2006 19:20:36
From: Matthew Ota
Subject: Re: Smoking on the grounds of a public star party

On that matter, I do not allow smoking inside the 16 inch telescope..
it is an unspoken rule as there are no ashtrays provided, nor in the 60
inch for that matter.

Matthew Ota

Mike Simmons wrote:
> On 29 Nov 2006 06:46:19 -0800, Tom Polakis wrote:
>
> > Trailer Trash ReUnion wrote:
> >> I fight with the "assholes" in my club about this all the time to no avail -
> >> and I am a smoker!!!!!!!!!!! Smoking in an observatory next to the
> >> telescopes I have cleaned and maintained etc for years? Go somplace else. Im a
> >> smoker and I dont do it! Smoking on the grounds next to people doing
> >> astronomy? Have some damned manners and go off to
> >> the side or into the woods! Why does this even require debate?
> >
> >
> > This a-hole used to smoke next to the telescope all the time, and then
> > they went and named the Space Telescope after him!
> >
> > http://opostaff.stsci.edu/~levay/presres/ehubble/jpeg/10_12-17.jpg
> >
> > Tom
>
> This is an old thread but I've been out of town and just saw it. So for
> anyone who's still reading...
>
> As has been pointed out by others, Hubble may have just posed with the pipe
> and/or kept it in his mouth while observing. There are many examples of
> posed shots that Hubble took advantage of. One very well-known shot (which
> I think was even used on a US postage stamp) shows Hubble at the eyepiece
> of the guide scope of the then-new 48-inch Schmidt telescope at Palomar.
> But Hubble never used that telescope; the shot was pure PR. Oh, and he had
> a pipe in his mouth in that one, too.
>
> As to whether or not he really did smoke while observing, that's unknown.
> I've asked someone who was around on Mt. Wilson while Hubble was observing
> but he doesn't recall if he had the pipe lit or not. You'll notice that
> there is no smoke coming from the pipe in any of the PR photos. The same
> is true for some old newsreel movies I've seen. So it's a mystery of the
> Universe that may never be known. Which will not, of course, keep the
> subject from coming up on astronomy forums for generations to come. :-)
>
> Mike Simmons
> Mount Wilson Observatory Association

Date: 08 Dec 2006 20:50:31
From: Shawn
Subject: Re: Smoking on the grounds of a public star party

Matthew Ota wrote:
> On that matter, I do not allow smoking inside the 16 inch telescope..

Wouldn't think there'd be room to turn around let alone light up. ;-)

> it is an unspoken rule as there are no ashtrays provided, nor in the 60
> inch for that matter.
>
> Matthew Ota