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Date: 21 Jul 2006 06:54:04
From: Mark Smith
Subject: Sky Scout - 2nd Night
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Well, after a cloudy night yesterday, it cleared up and I spent about
an hour playing with the Sky Scout under suburban San Deigo Skies. I'm
going out to a "dark sky" (as dark as it gets around here) area this
weekend and will continue my experiments. Some additional thoughts:
1. While I remember being told that the SkyScout would be limited to
Naked Eye objects, it seems to have quite a bit more. For example, it
seems to have the entire Messier Catalog.
2. Using SkyScout definitely takes some practice. I find that I can
more accurately aim it with the unit held about 12" from my eye. I
have a very hard time seeing the object through the viewfinder unless
it is held close to my eye (monocular style). It seems to work best
in "Locate" mode if I hold SkyScout away from my eye for initial
location and then bring it close for final identification. For
"Identify", I use it up close and carefully aim.
3. I have yet to use "Identify" where it doesn't pick up several
objects (most of them VERY dim stars). I think that it arranges the
objects it thinks you are looking at by Magnitude because the object I
point at is always listed on top.
4. I'm not sure that the optics are so hot here. The viewfinder
seems to dim the objects quite a bit and also seems to add some
distortion. There is no provision for focusing.
5. The unit is obviously designed to be held in the right hand. There
is a conviently located "Target" button on top that is very useful for
the "Identify" function. I think I would have located the "Locate"
and "Identify" mode buttons on top of the unit as well.
6. An audio menuing system (something that would allow you to
navigate the menus while looking through the eyepiece) would have been
VERY nice. If you are using a "Tour", you select the tour, look
through the eyepiece to locate object 1, then you must take your eye
away from the eyepiece to advance to the next object. This is
inconvenient and makes the experience of, for example, tracing
constellations much less enjoyable.
OK. I tried to trick the unit a little. First, once you "Identify"
an object, it goes into "Locate" mode to guide you back. So, I
Identified Jupiter, spun around so I was facing the other way, and let
it guide me back. Did a nice job. Then I Identified Vega (near the
zenith in the Squirrly Zone). It picked Vega out no problem but when
it guided me back, it put the star JUST outside of the target circles.
Next, I chose to "Locat" Mizar and started as close to exactly
opposite the star as I could. There was no "dead zone" where SkyScout
has a hard time deciding which dirction to take you. I panned through
the area multiple times and there was always a clear direction
indicated, although it sometimes seemed to want to take me the "long
way around".
More as I use it more.
Mark
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Date: 21 Jul 2006 15:41:41
From:
Subject: Re: Sky Scout - 2nd Night
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Mark Smith wrote:
> [...]
> 4. I'm not sure that the optics are so hot here. The viewfinder
> seems to dim the objects quite a bit and also seems to add some
> distortion. There is no provision for focusing.
NO PROVISION FOR FOCUSING?!
For an astronomy-related product that's a deal-breaker. I suppose
I won't by buying that POS after all; designers must have soy beans
for brains.
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Date: 21 Jul 2006 23:27:37
From: Chris L Peterson
Subject: Re: Sky Scout - 2nd Night
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On 21 Jul 2006 15:41:41 -0700, thad@thadlabs.com wrote:
>NO PROVISION FOR FOCUSING?!
>
>For an astronomy-related product that's a deal-breaker. I suppose
>I won't by buying that POS after all; designers must have soy beans
>for brains.
Isn't it a unit power device, a sort of heads-up display? If so, why
should it have the ability to focus? I would think it doesn't have any
refractive optics in it at all (except for the overlay arrows).
Do you refuse to use a Telrad because it doesn't focus?
_________________________________________________
Chris L Peterson
Cloudbait Observatory
http://www.cloudbait.com
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Date: 22 Jul 2006 01:34:49
From: Mark Smith
Subject: Re: Sky Scout - 2nd Night
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On Fri, 21 Jul 2006 23:27:37 GMT, Chris L Peterson
<clp@alumni.caltech.edu > wrote:
>On 21 Jul 2006 15:41:41 -0700, thad@thadlabs.com wrote:
>
>>NO PROVISION FOR FOCUSING?!
>>
>>For an astronomy-related product that's a deal-breaker. I suppose
>>I won't by buying that POS after all; designers must have soy beans
>>for brains.
>
>Isn't it a unit power device, a sort of heads-up display? If so, why
>should it have the ability to focus? I would think it doesn't have any
>refractive optics in it at all (except for the overlay arrows).
>
>Do you refuse to use a Telrad because it doesn't focus?
>
Yes, it is a unit power device. I mentioned the lack of ability to
focus because I wear glasses and I thought it might be nice (and
perhaps easier to make out objects through the unit) if I could view
through it without glasses.
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Date: 22 Jul 2006 02:56:12
From: Chris L Peterson
Subject: Re: Sky Scout - 2nd Night
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On Sat, 22 Jul 2006 01:34:49 GMT, Mark Smith <emarksmi@san.rr.com >
wrote:
>Yes, it is a unit power device. I mentioned the lack of ability to
>focus because I wear glasses and I thought it might be nice (and
>perhaps easier to make out objects through the unit) if I could view
>through it without glasses.
Possibly, although it seems to me that it is first and foremost a kind
of finder, and you would want to be able to move easily between it and
the sky. Removing your glasses would make that impossible. Do you find
that you just use the Sky Scout without also referring to the sky
directly?
What sort of distance do you hold it at? In the marketing pictures it
looks like about 18", although I assume there is a wide range possible.
_________________________________________________
Chris L Peterson
Cloudbait Observatory
http://www.cloudbait.com
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Date: 22 Jul 2006 03:37:38
From: Mark Smith
Subject: Re: Sky Scout - 2nd Night
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On Sat, 22 Jul 2006 02:56:12 GMT, Chris L Peterson
<clp@alumni.caltech.edu > wrote:
>On Sat, 22 Jul 2006 01:34:49 GMT, Mark Smith <emarksmi@san.rr.com>
>wrote:
> Do you find
>that you just use the Sky Scout without also referring to the sky
>directly?
>
>What sort of distance do you hold it at? In the marketing pictures it
>looks like about 18", although I assume there is a wide range possible.
>
Well, if you look at item 2 at the top of this thread, you'll see that
I've been experimenting with the distance alot. The skies I've been
using the SkyScout with to date are pretty light polluted and I have
difficulty picking up objects through the viewfinder that I can find
easily otherwise. Unless it is VERY bright (jupiter, Vega, Deneb), I
have a hard time finding it in the viewfinder.
I wanted to experiment with eliminating one layer of glass. I don't
use the glasses at the eyepiece.
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Date: 02 Aug 2006 10:09:41
From:
Subject: Re: Sky Scout - 2nd Night
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Any more observations after continued use?
Any new owners??
Mark Smith wrote:
> On Sat, 22 Jul 2006 02:56:12 GMT, Chris L Peterson
> <clp@alumni.caltech.edu> wrote:
>
> >On Sat, 22 Jul 2006 01:34:49 GMT, Mark Smith <emarksmi@san.rr.com>
> >wrote:
> > Do you find
> >that you just use the Sky Scout without also referring to the sky
> >directly?
> >
> >What sort of distance do you hold it at? In the marketing pictures it
> >looks like about 18", although I assume there is a wide range possible.
> >
>
> Well, if you look at item 2 at the top of this thread, you'll see that
> I've been experimenting with the distance alot. The skies I've been
> using the SkyScout with to date are pretty light polluted and I have
> difficulty picking up objects through the viewfinder that I can find
> easily otherwise. Unless it is VERY bright (jupiter, Vega, Deneb), I
> have a hard time finding it in the viewfinder.
>
> I wanted to experiment with eliminating one layer of glass. I don't
> use the glasses at the eyepiece.
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Date: 25 Aug 2006 08:33:07
From:
Subject: Re: Sky Scout - 2nd Night
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semmanager@adaera.com wrote:
> I've used it for two nights now and have had some problems.
>
> First - the system would sometimes shut off by itself. This usually
> happened after listening to an audio description and then using the
> back button.
Hmmm, that's odd. Haven't experienced that with mine, but I haven't
listened to many audio descriptions esp. since Vega is pronounced
incorrectly.
> Second - the fit and finish is somewhat lacking. For example, the
> display on my SkyScout is crooked. It reminds me of someone with shaky
> hands putting an address label on an envelope - it simply is off
> center. This is not that big of a deal and all text can still be read,
> it's just annoying.
Mine's OK; pictures can be seen at the website listed below.
> Third - I find it almost impossible to see anything through the view
> finder unless the object is very bright and even then, the view finder
> darkens the object so much you sometimes question whether you're lined
> up on the correct object.
Production change? Mine doesn't attenuate light at all and you can see
a photo through the viewfinder and compare the brightness of the
background both directly and through the viewfinder -- no difference --
which is coated (at least on mine) also at this URL:
<http://thadlabs.com/ASTRO/SkyScout/ >
I have no problems seeing mag 4 and 5 stars in Silicon Valley through
the SkyScout's viewfinder; note Silicon Valley has (approx.) a limiting
magnitude of 5 on a "good" night.
The only real thing I need to add (to that page) is that it's
impossible
for a left-handed person to hold the unit in their left hand and use
it.
I did feed the audio to an external speaker system and it worked fine
and suitable for a group's use, and attaching a green laser pointer
also
renders it more-suitable for group use.
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Date: 25 Aug 2006 09:21:05
From: Brian Tung
Subject: Re: Sky Scout - 2nd Night
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Thad wrote:
> Hmmm, that's odd. Haven't experienced that with mine, but I haven't
> listened to many audio descriptions esp. since Vega is pronounced
> incorrectly.
How is it pronounced? You may be interested to know that neither
VEE-guh nor VAY-guh is all that close to the original Arabic.
--
Brian Tung <brian@isi.edu >
The Astronomy Corner at http://astro.isi.edu/
Unofficial C5+ Home Page at http://astro.isi.edu/c5plus/
The PleiadAtlas Home Page at http://astro.isi.edu/pleiadatlas/
My Own Personal FAQ (SAA) at http://astro.isi.edu/reference/faq.html
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Date: 25 Aug 2006 13:18:03
From: St. John Smythe
Subject: Re: Sky Scout - 2nd Night
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thad@thadlabs.com wrote:
> Hmmm, that's odd. Haven't experienced that with mine, but I haven't
> listened to many audio descriptions esp. since Vega is pronounced
> incorrectly.
You mean, "vay-ga" instead of "vee-ja?"
--
St. John
There has been an alarming increase in the number of things we know
nothing about.
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Date: 25 Aug 2006 14:31:47
From: Brian Tung
Subject: Re: Sky Scout - 2nd Night
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St. John Smythe wrote:
> You mean, "vay-ga" instead of "vee-ja?"
Someone says VEE-ja? I must admit I've never heard the 'g' pronounced
as soft. Sounds like a Trekker. :)
--
Brian Tung <brian@isi.edu >
The Astronomy Corner at http://astro.isi.edu/
Unofficial C5+ Home Page at http://astro.isi.edu/c5plus/
The PleiadAtlas Home Page at http://astro.isi.edu/pleiadatlas/
My Own Personal FAQ (SAA) at http://astro.isi.edu/reference/faq.html
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Date: 25 Aug 2006 17:52:58
From: St. John Smythe
Subject: Re: Sky Scout - 2nd Night
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Brian Tung wrote:
> Someone says VEE-ja? I must admit I've never heard the 'g' pronounced
> as soft. Sounds like a Trekker. :)
Bowditch, in the navigational astronomy section, along with Lye-bra,
Piss-eez, etc. Fascinating perspective on pronunciations.
--
St. John
Adler's Distinction:
Language is all that separates us from the lower animals,
and from the bureaucrats.
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Date: 25 Aug 2006 14:58:14
From: Brian Tung
Subject: Re: Sky Scout - 2nd Night
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St. John Smythe wrote:
> Bowditch, in the navigational astronomy section, along with Lye-bra,
> Piss-eez, etc. Fascinating perspective on pronunciations.
Weird. I can't see where those pronunciations come from. They don't
sound like any Latin pronunciations I've ever heard.
--
Brian Tung <brian@isi.edu >
The Astronomy Corner at http://astro.isi.edu/
Unofficial C5+ Home Page at http://astro.isi.edu/c5plus/
The PleiadAtlas Home Page at http://astro.isi.edu/pleiadatlas/
My Own Personal FAQ (SAA) at http://astro.isi.edu/reference/faq.html
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Date: 25 Aug 2006 07:27:30
From:
Subject: Re: Sky Scout - 2nd Night
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I've used it for two nights now and have had some problems.
First - the system would sometimes shut off by itself. This usually
happened after listening to an audio description and then using the
back button. If you rely upon the GPS to determine your position this
shut off is very annoying as it takes quite a while for the GPS to sync
back up.
Second - the fit and finish is somewhat lacking. For example, the
display on my SkyScout is crooked. It reminds me of someone with shaky
hands putting an address label on an envelope - it simply is off
center. This is not that big of a deal and all text can still be read,
it's just annoying.
Third - I find it almost impossible to see anything through the view
finder unless the object is very bright and even then, the view finder
darkens the object so much you sometimes question whether you're lined
up on the correct object.
I've been looking forward to the release of the SkyScout since I first
heard about it earlier this year, but now that I have it, I'm very
disappointed.
rwmccoy@gmail.com wrote:
> Any more observations after continued use?
>
> Any new owners??
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Date: 25 Aug 2006 12:08:53
From:
Subject: Re: Sky Scout - 2nd Night
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Brian Tung wrote:
> Thad wrote:
> > Hmmm, that's odd. Haven't experienced that with mine, but I haven't
> > listened to many audio descriptions esp. since Vega is pronounced
> > incorrectly.
>
> How is it pronounced? You may be interested to know that neither
> VEE-guh nor VAY-guh is all that close to the original Arabic.
Interesting. :-)
The person doing the narrative pronounces it "VEE-guh" and it took
me a moment to recognize that since I was expecting "VAY-guh" which
is how I've always heard it pronounced previously over the years.
I suppose what's "normal" is how one hears it the first time; for me,
50+
years ago, it was "VAY-guy".
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Date: 25 Aug 2006 14:32:02
From: Willie R. Meghar
Subject: Re: Sky Scout - 2nd Night
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thad@thadlabs.com wrote:
>The person doing the narrative pronounces it "VEE-guh" and it took
>me a moment to recognize that since I was expecting "VAY-guh" which
>is how I've always heard it pronounced previously over the years.
Many years ago an article appeared in "Popular Astronomy". I don't
recall the month and year; but the article was: "The Pronunciations
and Meanings of Star Names" by George A. Davis, Jr.
According to that source, VEE-guh (shown differently in the article,
but sounding similarly) is the correct pronunciation of Vega.
Unfortunately there's been no agreed upon consensus for star name
pronunciations. I rely primarily on the Davis article; but plenty of
other people rely on other sources.
>I suppose what's "normal" is how one hears it the first time; for me,
>50+
>years ago, it was "VAY-guy".
That's the way I learned it as well. Now I rely on the Davis article
along with a spattering of more recent sources for stars not included
in that article.
It appears to me that someone did a bit of research on star name
pronunciation before deciding how to pronounce the star names in the
Sky Scout. I see this as a "good thing".
Willie R. Meghar
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Date: 25 Aug 2006 14:30:38
From: Brian Tung
Subject: Re: Sky Scout - 2nd Night
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Willie R. Meghar wrote:
> Many years ago an article appeared in "Popular Astronomy". I don't
> recall the month and year; but the article was: "The Pronunciations
> and Meanings of Star Names" by George A. Davis, Jr.
>
> According to that source, VEE-guh (shown differently in the article,
> but sounding similarly) is the correct pronunciation of Vega.
There is no basis in fact for that assertion. According to Kunitzsch
and Smart (Kunitzsch is the leading linguistic expert on star names),
the original Arabic was al-nasr al-waqi', with Vega coming from the last
word. The last 'a' is long (like "ahh"), if I recall correctly, and
Kunitzsch and Smart apparently decided on that basis that VAY-guh was
ever so slightly preferable, but in my opinion, neither is a close fit.
There have been a lot of misconceptions about star names, because most
of the authors have not been linguists, and have constructed etymologies
that are superficially plausible but don't pass muster linguistically.
Betelgeuse and Albireo are other good examples.
Kunitzsch and Smart's book on star names will be made available again
(through Sky Publishing?) in ober, having been out of print for
decades. Even though I have the first edition, I'm looking forward to
this revision. I have a page based principally on that book, because it
was out of print:
http://astro.isi.edu/reference/starintro.html
However, with the book returning from beyond the grave, as it were, I
might have to take that page down.
--
Brian Tung <brian@isi.edu >
The Astronomy Corner at http://astro.isi.edu/
Unofficial C5+ Home Page at http://astro.isi.edu/c5plus/
The PleiadAtlas Home Page at http://astro.isi.edu/pleiadatlas/
My Own Personal FAQ (SAA) at http://astro.isi.edu/reference/faq.html
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Date: 25 Aug 2006 14:50:26
From: Willie R. Meghar
Subject: Re: Sky Scout - 2nd Night
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I wrote:
>Many years ago an article appeared in "Popular Astronomy". I don't
>recall the month and year; but the article was: "The Pronunciations
>and Meanings of Star Names" by George A. Davis, Jr.
For anyone interested, this article was in the January 1944 issue
(pages 10 through 29).
Willie R. Meghar
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