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Main
Date: 01 Oct 2006 01:32:55
From: Greg Bailey
Subject: Scope or binoculars for 12-year-old boy?
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No. 1 son, age 12, has expressed a desire for a telescope for Christmas.
He's always been very interested in rockets, spaceships, etc., he now says
he'd like to look at the moon, stars, planets, etc.
I know not to get him a "department store telescope." I had one of those
when I was a kid and it was awful, to say the least.
The thing is, I'm not sure my son is going to stay interested in this past
Dec. 26. He'll go off on one tangent for a while, then switch to something
else. He has ADD and has also been diagnosed as having borderline OCD, so
we're talking about the attention span of a gnat, although again, he's
stayed interested in space, as far as space travel, longer than anything
else, maybe he can transfer that passion to astronomy.
If I could know for sure that he would stay interested in it ... and take
care of it, although he's beginning to mature somewhat he still can be
irresponsible and not take care of his things, despite mine and his mother's
best efforts; we're hoping it will just take some time ... I'd buy him an
Orion SkyQuest XT 4.5 without a second thought.
I don't know that for sure, so I'm not inclined to take that big a plunge
with him just yet.
So I'm looking at two options:
1. A Meade DS-80 EC, new in the box with warranty and the option to purchase
an extended warranty, for roughly $90 including shipping from a vendor on
eBay with 99.8 percent feedback. I know it's a lower end telescope, but I've
seen some positive reviews for this model online that it's a step above the
"department store" level.
2. Getting him a pair of binoculars to start with and see if he sticks with
it, and if he does we can always get the Orion later.
I'd appreciate any advice on what would be the best way to proceed here. And
if the binocular route would be preferable, I'd appreciate some suggestions
on specific models to look at.
Thanks!
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Date: 01 Oct 2006 16:55:56
From: Jim Klein
Subject: Re: Scope or binoculars for 12-year-old boy?
|
"Greg Bailey" <nowhereman@nowhereland.org > wrote:
>No. 1 son, age 12, has expressed a desire for a telescope for Christmas.
>He's always been very interested in rockets, spaceships, etc., he now says
>he'd like to look at the moon, stars, planets, etc.
>
>I know not to get him a "department store telescope." I had one of those
>when I was a kid and it was awful, to say the least.
A low price refractor (2.4 ") from scope city is a good choice. If he
becomes an ATM, he can use it as a guide scope. I got one in the 8th
grade and it was great.
>
>The thing is, I'm not sure my son is going to stay interested in this past
>Dec. 26. He'll go off on one tangent for a while, then switch to something
>else. He has ADD and has also been diagnosed as having borderline OCD, so
>we're talking about the attention span of a gnat, although again, he's
>stayed interested in space, as far as space travel, longer than anything
>else, maybe he can transfer that passion to astronomy.
ADD, OCD, these are all crap. The nuns handled them all with a yard
stick in the 50 and it worked. Get the kid off sugar and caffeine and
indulge his interests. If you were sure what you wanted to do when you
were 12, then you were wield.
>
>If I could know for sure that he would stay interested in it ... and take
>care of it, although he's beginning to mature somewhat he still can be
>irresponsible and not take care of his things, despite mine and his mother's
>best efforts; we're hoping it will just take some time ... I'd buy him an
>Orion SkyQuest XT 4.5 without a second thought.
Look, no matter what he is interested in now, enjoy it because he
can't get the telescope pregnant. Wait till he finds out what girls
are for. You will wish you had bought the telescope, the microscope,
the electronics design set, the chemistry set etc.
>
>I don't know that for sure, so I'm not inclined to take that big a plunge
>with him just yet.
>
>So I'm looking at two options:
>
>1. A Meade DS-80 EC, new in the box with warranty and the option to purchase
>an extended warranty, for roughly $90 including shipping from a vendor on
>eBay with 99.8 percent feedback. I know it's a lower end telescope, but I've
>seen some positive reviews for this model online that it's a step above the
>"department store" level.
>
>2. Getting him a pair of binoculars to start with and see if he sticks with
>it, and if he does we can always get the Orion later.
Get the telescope, unless he is also interested in nature. If so buy
the binoculars for yourself and offer to let him use them. Then he
doesn't think your spoiling him and you can use them to look at other
women from a distance. :-)
At 12 I was interested in microbiology, astronomy, chemistry and
geology.
At 15 I settled on optics and astronomy. At 17 I switched to girls and
folk music. I became a Physicist and an optical designer. At 57 I took
5 geology classes at Cal State L A.
As an adult I have gone from model RR to guns to Geology and Fossils
to fishing to furniture making, back to guns (building black powder
rifles). My wife says it is better than bars and other women and I
agree.
Exposure to a wide variety of interests will broaden his mind and
everything listed above beats drugs and bad friends and is cheaper
than rehab.
Hope some of this helped, or was at least amusing.
>
>I'd appreciate any advice on what would be the best way to proceed here. And
>if the binocular route would be preferable, I'd appreciate some suggestions
>on specific models to look at.
>
>Thanks!
>
James E. Klein
jameseklein@earthlink.net
Engineering Calculations
http://www.ecalculations.com
ecalculations@ecalculations.com
Engineering Calculations is the home of
the KDP-2 Optical Design Program
for Windows.
1-818-507-5706 (Voice and Fax)
1-818-823-4121
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Date: 01 Oct 2006 17:03:01
From: Brian Tung
Subject: Re: Scope or binoculars for 12-year-old boy?
|
Jim Klein wrote:
> ADD, OCD, these are all crap. The nuns handled them all with a yard
> stick in the 50 and it worked. Get the kid off sugar and caffeine and
> indulge his interests. If you were sure what you wanted to do when you
> were 12, then you were wield.
I think you're going a bit too far. I think they may be overdiagnosed,
but to say that they're all crap is giving those nuns a little too much
credit.
OCD has nothing necessarily to do with hyperactivity. It is an anxiety
disorder.
--
Brian Tung <brian@isi.edu >
The Astronomy Corner at http://astro.isi.edu/
Unofficial C5+ Home Page at http://astro.isi.edu/c5plus/
The PleiadAtlas Home Page at http://astro.isi.edu/pleiadatlas/
My Own Personal FAQ (SAA) at http://astro.isi.edu/reference/faq.html
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Date: 03 Oct 2006 23:57:39
From: Jim Klein
Subject: Re: Scope or binoculars for 12-year-old boy?
|
brian@isi.edu (Brian Tung) wrote:
>Jim Klein wrote:
>> ADD, OCD, these are all crap. The nuns handled them all with a yard
>> stick in the 50 and it worked. Get the kid off sugar and caffeine and
>> indulge his interests. If you were sure what you wanted to do when you
>> were 12, then you were wield.
>
>I think you're going a bit too far. I think they may be overdiagnosed,
>but to say that they're all crap is giving those nuns a little too much
>credit.
>
>OCD has nothing necessarily to do with hyperactivity. It is an anxiety
>disorder.
OCD's solution is to teach your kid how to win when he gets into a
fight.
The little greaser bastard that was beating me up, stopped the day my
fist met hit nose before he got a chance to hit me.
After that, I wasn't afraid of anything.
James E. Klein
jameseklein@earthlink.net
Engineering Calculations
http://www.ecalculations.com
ecalculations@ecalculations.com
Engineering Calculations is the home of
the KDP-2 Optical Design Program
for Windows.
1-818-507-5706 (Voice and Fax)
1-818-823-4121
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Date: 04 Oct 2006 16:38:36
From: Jim Klein
Subject: Re: Scope or binoculars for 12-year-old boy?
|
brian@isi.edu (Brian Tung) wrote:
>Jim Klein wrote:
>> ADD, OCD, these are all crap. The nuns handled them all with a yard
>> stick in the 50 and it worked. Get the kid off sugar and caffeine and
>> indulge his interests. If you were sure what you wanted to do when you
>> were 12, then you were wield.
>
>I think you're going a bit too far. I think they may be overdiagnosed,
>but to say that they're all crap is giving those nuns a little too much
>credit.
You didn't know the nuns I knew. Remember "the penguin" in the Blues
Brothers". We had several of those on steroids.
>
>OCD has nothing necessarily to do with hyperactivity. It is an anxiety
>disorder.
James E. Klein
jameseklein@earthlink.net
Engineering Calculations
http://www.ecalculations.com
ecalculations@ecalculations.com
Engineering Calculations is the home of
the KDP-2 Optical Design Program
for Windows.
1-818-507-5706 (Voice and Fax)
1-818-823-4121
|
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Date: 01 Oct 2006 17:26:02
From: Shawn
Subject: Re: Scope or binoculars for 12-year-old boy?
|
Jim Klein wrote:
> ADD, OCD, these are all crap. The nuns handled them all with a yard
> stick in the 50 and it worked. Get the kid off sugar and caffeine and
> indulge his interests. If you were sure what you wanted to do when you
> were 12, then you were wield.
You are so far out of line here. People who could "handle" their kids
by cutting out Cokes aren't posting such requests on the internet.
Stick to astronomy.
Someone recommended a six inch dob. Would be easy for him to start
with, will work in 10 years if it doesn't take this time.
Shawn
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Date: 01 Oct 2006 09:38:56
From: Don't Be Evil
Subject: Re: Scope or binoculars for 12-year-old boy?
|
Greg Bailey wrote:
> No. 1 son, age 12, has expressed a desire for a telescope for Christmas.
> He's always been very interested in rockets, spaceships, etc., he now says
> he'd like to look at the moon, stars, planets, etc.
>
> I know not to get him a "department store telescope." I had one of those
> when I was a kid and it was awful, to say the least.
>
> The thing is, I'm not sure my son is going to stay interested in this past
> Dec. 26. He'll go off on one tangent for a while, then switch to something
> else. He has ADD and has also been diagnosed as having borderline OCD, so
> we're talking about the attention span of a gnat, although again, he's
> stayed interested in space, as far as space travel, longer than anything
> else, maybe he can transfer that passion to astronomy.
>
> If I could know for sure that he would stay interested in it ... and take
> care of it, although he's beginning to mature somewhat he still can be
> irresponsible and not take care of his things, despite mine and his mother's
> best efforts; we're hoping it will just take some time ... I'd buy him an
> Orion SkyQuest XT 4.5 without a second thought.
>
> I don't know that for sure, so I'm not inclined to take that big a plunge
> with him just yet.
>
> So I'm looking at two options:
>
> 1. A Meade DS-80 EC, new in the box with warranty and the option to purchase
> an extended warranty, for roughly $90 including shipping from a vendor on
> eBay with 99.8 percent feedback. I know it's a lower end telescope, but I've
> seen some positive reviews for this model online that it's a step above the
> "department store" level.
>
> 2. Getting him a pair of binoculars to start with and see if he sticks with
> it, and if he does we can always get the Orion later.
>
> I'd appreciate any advice on what would be the best way to proceed here. And
> if the binocular route would be preferable, I'd appreciate some suggestions
> on specific models to look at.
>
> Thanks!
If you do go the Orion dob route, I'd go for the XT6. It's only $30
more, and beside the larger aperture, it's enough taller to be easier
for older kids and adults to use. The 4.5 is best for kids that are
too short to reach the eyepiece of larger ones.
Binoculars are great for deep sky, but from light polluted locations,
planets are a better bet, and are beyond the reach of binoculars.
When comparing telescopes, consider the included eyepieces. Plossl's
are good enough to actually use. Also good are the Expanse eyepieces
included with some Orion scopes. Many cheap telescopes will come with
highly dubious eyepieces. Also, be sure to get a 1.25" or larger
focuser. Some versions of the Meade DS have a .965" which is to be
avoided.
Greg
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Date: 01 Oct 2006 14:54:04
From: dunkin
Subject: Re: Scope or binoculars for 12-year-old boy?
|
I second the Celestron SkyMaster 15x70 binoculars.
They are great bargain. Amazon had them on sale a while back for $67
shipped.
Keep in mind to see deep sky objects you need at least a 6" aperature
and must be in a dark location (30 miles from a city). If you are not
prepared to trek out to a remote location, not much point in it.
Its amazing what you can see with just binoculars.
You can see the Andromeda galaxy within a light polluted suburb.
You can also see the moons of jupiter with binoculars. Binoculars
will allow one to learn the sky with a skychart or software such as "Starry
Nights".
If you are willing to trek to remote locations, a great starter scope would
be the Orion 6" Intelliscope dobson reflector. It has a small
handheld computer that will help you navigate and learn the sky.
"Greg Bailey" <nowhereman@nowhereland.org > wrote in message
news:W7CdnYETQomL_ILYnZ2dnUVZ_s6dnZ2d@comcast.com...
> No. 1 son, age 12, has expressed a desire for a telescope for Christmas.
> He's always been very interested in rockets, spaceships, etc., he now says
> he'd like to look at the moon, stars, planets, etc.
>
> I know not to get him a "department store telescope." I had one of those
> when I was a kid and it was awful, to say the least.
>
> The thing is, I'm not sure my son is going to stay interested in this past
> Dec. 26. He'll go off on one tangent for a while, then switch to something
> else. He has ADD and has also been diagnosed as having borderline OCD, so
> we're talking about the attention span of a gnat, although again, he's
> stayed interested in space, as far as space travel, longer than anything
> else, maybe he can transfer that passion to astronomy.
>
> If I could know for sure that he would stay interested in it ... and take
> care of it, although he's beginning to mature somewhat he still can be
> irresponsible and not take care of his things, despite mine and his
> mother's best efforts; we're hoping it will just take some time ... I'd
> buy him an Orion SkyQuest XT 4.5 without a second thought.
>
> I don't know that for sure, so I'm not inclined to take that big a plunge
> with him just yet.
>
> So I'm looking at two options:
>
> 1. A Meade DS-80 EC, new in the box with warranty and the option to
> purchase an extended warranty, for roughly $90 including shipping from a
> vendor on eBay with 99.8 percent feedback. I know it's a lower end
> telescope, but I've seen some positive reviews for this model online that
> it's a step above the "department store" level.
>
> 2. Getting him a pair of binoculars to start with and see if he sticks
> with it, and if he does we can always get the Orion later.
>
> I'd appreciate any advice on what would be the best way to proceed here.
> And if the binocular route would be preferable, I'd appreciate some
> suggestions on specific models to look at.
>
> Thanks!
>
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Date: 01 Oct 2006 11:12:51
From: Dennis Woos
Subject: Re: Scope or binoculars for 12-year-old boy?
|
> Keep in mind to see deep sky objects you need at least a 6" aperature
> and must be in a dark location (30 miles from a city). If you are not
> prepared to trek out to a remote location, not much point in it.
This is incorrect. A 4.5" dob will provide good views of dozens of DSOs
even from a relatively light-polluted site, and good views of double stars,
the Moon, Saturn, Jupiter and (with the proper filter) the Sun from
anywhere. The biggest problem in observing in bad light-pollution is
finding stuff.
Dennis
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Date: 01 Oct 2006 19:43:12
From: dunkin
Subject: Re: Scope or binoculars for 12-year-old boy?
|
"Dennis Woos" <dpwoos@gmavt.net > wrote in message
news:12hvmng1r981ef2@corp.supernews.com...
>> Keep in mind to see deep sky objects you need at least a 6" aperature
>> and must be in a dark location (30 miles from a city). If you are not
>> prepared to trek out to a remote location, not much point in it.
>
> This is incorrect. A 4.5" dob will provide good views of dozens of DSOs
> even from a relatively light-polluted site, and good views of double
> stars, the Moon, Saturn, Jupiter and (with the proper filter) the Sun from
> anywhere. The biggest problem in observing in bad light-pollution is
> finding stuff.
Your advise is contrary to all I've heard and experienced.
Where do you live? What DSOs have you seen with your 4.5" in that location?
I can barely make out Andromeda in my city location, much less any other
DSO.
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Date: 01 Oct 2006 17:33:55
From: Dennis Woos
Subject: Re: Scope or binoculars for 12-year-old boy?
|
> Your advise is contrary to all I've heard and experienced.
> Where do you live? What DSOs have you seen with your 4.5" in that
> location?
>
> I can barely make out Andromeda in my city location, much less any other
> DSO.
>
It is true that we do most of our observing from a fairly dark location
(often pushing mag. 6), but we also do a lot of public observing from much
more light-polluted areas. However, I would like to point out that the
original poster didn't say what his skies are like and it may be that they
are pretty good, or that it is not that difficult to travel to a decent
site.
I am all for getting as much aperture as the original poster can afford and
which his son can handle. However, I do think that a 4.5" reflector with
good optics is a fine instrument which will keep an active observer busy for
years. In fact, a common recommendation for a beginner scope (which the
original poster should consider) is a 80mm short-tube refractor, which has
approximately 1/2 the light-gathering ability of the 4.5".
Dennis
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Date: 01 Oct 2006 12:52:26
From: Starlord
Subject: Re: Scope or binoculars for 12-year-old boy?
|
I have a Stargazer Steve Dob, f9 4.25inch and I've seen M42, M8, and many
others with it.
--
The Lone Sidewalk Astronomer of Rosamond
Telescope Buyers FAQ
http://home.inreach.com/starlord
Sidewalk Astronomy
www.sidewalkastronomy.info
The Church of Eternity
http://home.inreach.com/starlord/church/Eternity.html
"dunkin" <donuts@ummgood.biz > wrote in message
news:kTUTg.740$NE6.586@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com...
>
> "Dennis Woos" <dpwoos@gmavt.net> wrote in message
> news:12hvmng1r981ef2@corp.supernews.com...
>>> Keep in mind to see deep sky objects you need at least a 6" aperature
>>> and must be in a dark location (30 miles from a city). If you are not
>>> prepared to trek out to a remote location, not much point in it.
>>
>> This is incorrect. A 4.5" dob will provide good views of dozens of DSOs
>> even from a relatively light-polluted site, and good views of double
>> stars, the Moon, Saturn, Jupiter and (with the proper filter) the Sun
>> from anywhere. The biggest problem in observing in bad light-pollution
>> is finding stuff.
>
> Your advise is contrary to all I've heard and experienced.
> Where do you live? What DSOs have you seen with your 4.5" in that
> location?
>
> I can barely make out Andromeda in my city location, much less any other
> DSO.
>
>
>
|
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Date: 01 Oct 2006 08:05:52
From: Starlord
Subject: Re: Scope or binoculars for 12-year-old boy?
|
If he was to read my FAQ about telescope buying, then the Stargazer Steve
line of dobs would be better than orion, the boy would get to put a scope
together and know more about how they work too.
--
The Lone Sidewalk Astronomer of Rosamond
Telescope Buyers FAQ
http://home.inreach.com/starlord
Sidewalk Astronomy
www.sidewalkastronomy.info
The Church of Eternity
http://home.inreach.com/starlord/church/Eternity.html
"dunkin" <donuts@ummgood.biz > wrote in message
news:gEQTg.7088$e66.2790@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com...
>I second the Celestron SkyMaster 15x70 binoculars.
> They are great bargain. Amazon had them on sale a while back for $67
> shipped.
>
> Keep in mind to see deep sky objects you need at least a 6" aperature
> and must be in a dark location (30 miles from a city). If you are not
> prepared to trek out to a remote location, not much point in it.
>
> Its amazing what you can see with just binoculars.
> You can see the Andromeda galaxy within a light polluted suburb.
> You can also see the moons of jupiter with binoculars. Binoculars
> will allow one to learn the sky with a skychart or software such as
> "Starry Nights".
>
> If you are willing to trek to remote locations, a great starter scope
> would
> be the Orion 6" Intelliscope dobson reflector. It has a small
> handheld computer that will help you navigate and learn the sky.
>
>
> "Greg Bailey" <nowhereman@nowhereland.org> wrote in message
> news:W7CdnYETQomL_ILYnZ2dnUVZ_s6dnZ2d@comcast.com...
>> No. 1 son, age 12, has expressed a desire for a telescope for Christmas.
>> He's always been very interested in rockets, spaceships, etc., he now
>> says he'd like to look at the moon, stars, planets, etc.
>>
>> I know not to get him a "department store telescope." I had one of those
>> when I was a kid and it was awful, to say the least.
>>
>> The thing is, I'm not sure my son is going to stay interested in this
>> past Dec. 26. He'll go off on one tangent for a while, then switch to
>> something else. He has ADD and has also been diagnosed as having
>> borderline OCD, so we're talking about the attention span of a gnat,
>> although again, he's stayed interested in space, as far as space travel,
>> longer than anything else, maybe he can transfer that passion to
>> astronomy.
>>
>> If I could know for sure that he would stay interested in it ... and take
>> care of it, although he's beginning to mature somewhat he still can be
>> irresponsible and not take care of his things, despite mine and his
>> mother's best efforts; we're hoping it will just take some time ... I'd
>> buy him an Orion SkyQuest XT 4.5 without a second thought.
>>
>> I don't know that for sure, so I'm not inclined to take that big a plunge
>> with him just yet.
>>
>> So I'm looking at two options:
>>
>> 1. A Meade DS-80 EC, new in the box with warranty and the option to
>> purchase an extended warranty, for roughly $90 including shipping from a
>> vendor on eBay with 99.8 percent feedback. I know it's a lower end
>> telescope, but I've seen some positive reviews for this model online that
>> it's a step above the "department store" level.
>>
>> 2. Getting him a pair of binoculars to start with and see if he sticks
>> with it, and if he does we can always get the Orion later.
>>
>> I'd appreciate any advice on what would be the best way to proceed here.
>> And if the binocular route would be preferable, I'd appreciate some
>> suggestions on specific models to look at.
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>
>
|
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Date: 01 Oct 2006 14:33:09
From: Alan French
Subject: Re: Scope or binoculars for 12-year-old boy?
|
"Greg Bailey" <nowhereman@nowhereland.org > wrote in message
news:W7CdnYETQomL_ILYnZ2dnUVZ_s6dnZ2d@comcast.com...
> No. 1 son, age 12, has expressed a desire for a telescope for Christmas.
> He's always been very interested in rockets, spaceships, etc., he now says
> he'd like to look at the moon, stars, planets, etc.
>
> I know not to get him a "department store telescope." I had one of those
> when I was a kid and it was awful, to say the least.
>
> The thing is, I'm not sure my son is going to stay interested in this past
> Dec. 26. He'll go off on one tangent for a while, then switch to something
> else. He has ADD and has also been diagnosed as having borderline OCD, so
> we're talking about the attention span of a gnat, although again, he's
> stayed interested in space, as far as space travel, longer than anything
> else, maybe he can transfer that passion to astronomy.
>
> If I could know for sure that he would stay interested in it ... and take
> care of it, although he's beginning to mature somewhat he still can be
> irresponsible and not take care of his things, despite mine and his
mother's
> best efforts; we're hoping it will just take some time ... I'd buy him an
> Orion SkyQuest XT 4.5 without a second thought.
>
> I don't know that for sure, so I'm not inclined to take that big a plunge
> with him just yet.
>
> So I'm looking at two options:
>
> 1. A Meade DS-80 EC, new in the box with warranty and the option to
purchase
> an extended warranty, for roughly $90 including shipping from a vendor on
> eBay with 99.8 percent feedback. I know it's a lower end telescope, but
I've
> seen some positive reviews for this model online that it's a step above
the
> "department store" level.
>
> 2. Getting him a pair of binoculars to start with and see if he sticks
with
> it, and if he does we can always get the Orion later.
>
> I'd appreciate any advice on what would be the best way to proceed here.
And
> if the binocular route would be preferable, I'd appreciate some
suggestions
> on specific models to look at.
>
> Thanks!
I'll second what Rune said - he wants a telescope, not binoculars. In my
experience, youngsters want to see the Moon and planets, first and foremost,
and binoculars are not going to do that job. I think binoculars are great
for starting out, if you are an enthusiastic adult, but are most appreciated
by people who already have some time at the eyepiece of a telescope. You
didn't say what the sky is light where you live. If it is fairly light
polluted, the views through binoculars are going to be very limited at home.
We follow Starlord's recommendation in our club, and always recommend people
considering a telescope visit a public star party. There they can look
through a variety of telescopes, see how they work, and decide if they
really want their own. This would be a good way to test your son's
interest. If he wants to go home right away, he probably doesn't want a
telescope. If he stays, and clamors to go back, then a telescope may be
right for him.
The Orion SkyQuest XTs are great telescopes to start with. Either the 4.5"
or the 6" would be about right, and I'd tend toward recommending the 6" if
he seems interested. If you get either, and you have a local club, I
suspect you wouldn't have much trouble passing it along to another beginner
if you find it lanquishes in a closet (although the right buyer might not
come along right away). Generally these seem to sell for 70 to 80 percent
of the new price if they are kept in good shape.
Clear skies, Alan
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Date: 01 Oct 2006 07:24:16
From: brucegooglegroups
Subject: Re: Scope or binoculars for 12-year-old boy?
|
Hi,
Be sure to read to the reviews of starter telescopes in the December
2005 issue of Sky and Telescope: Low Cost Starter Scopes by Gary
Seronik. The Orion XT 4.5 or the Starblast are excellent beginner
scopes.
You should be able to get this issue from a local library.
Bruce
Jace wrote:
> You might want to consider an Orion=AE StarBlast=99 4.5 EQ Reflector as
> well. Its a nice scope, new (just came out from Orion) and $30 less
> than the Orion SkyQuest XT 4.5.
>
> http://www.telescope.com/shopping/product/detailmain.jsp?itemID=3D101776&=
itemType=3DPRODUCT&iMainCat=3D4&iSubCat=3D8&iProductID=3D101776
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Date: 01 Oct 2006 07:08:26
From: Jace
Subject: Re: Scope or binoculars for 12-year-old boy?
|
You might want to consider an Orion=AE StarBlast=99 4.5 EQ Reflector as
well. Its a nice scope, new (just came out from Orion) and $30 less
than the Orion SkyQuest XT 4.5.
http://www.telescope.com/shopping/product/detailmain.jsp?itemID=3D101776&it=
emType=3DPRODUCT&iMainCat=3D4&iSubCat=3D8&iProductID=3D101776
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Date: 01 Oct 2006 06:45:38
From: Rune Allnor
Subject: Re: Scope or binoculars for 12-year-old boy?
|
Greg Bailey skrev:
> No. 1 son, age 12, has expressed a desire for a telescope for Christmas.
...
> He has ADD and has also been diagnosed as having borderline OCD,
I read the above as if the boy has said he wants a telescope -- not
binoculars -- for Christmas. Given these other aspects of his
situation,
I am not so sure the binos would be a good alternative for him.
Maybe you should take him to your local astro club and see if he
stays interested. If he does, you are more confident if you buy him
a telescope. If he looses interest, well, then you know in good time
and can go and buy him something else for Christmas.
The question here is whether he really is sincerely interested -- or
on his way to develop a sincere interest -- in astronomy, and what
effect a possible disappointment of getting binos instead of a scope
will have on this interest.
Rune
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| | |
Date: 01 Oct 2006 10:04:15
From: Dennis Woos
Subject: Re: Scope or binoculars for 12-year-old boy?
|
"Rune Allnor" <allnor@tele.ntnu.no > wrote in message
news:1159710338.643622.49380@e3g2000cwe.googlegroups.com...
>
> Greg Bailey skrev:
>> No. 1 son, age 12, has expressed a desire for a telescope for Christmas.
> ...
>> He has ADD and has also been diagnosed as having borderline OCD,
>
> I read the above as if the boy has said he wants a telescope -- not
> binoculars -- for Christmas. Given these other aspects of his
> situation,
> I am not so sure the binos would be a good alternative for him.
>
> Maybe you should take him to your local astro club and see if he
> stays interested. If he does, you are more confident if you buy him
> a telescope. If he looses interest, well, then you know in good time
> and can go and buy him something else for Christmas.
>
> The question here is whether he really is sincerely interested -- or
> on his way to develop a sincere interest -- in astronomy, and what
> effect a possible disappointment of getting binos instead of a scope
> will have on this interest.
>
> Rune
>
I support what you say, but I think that I would go easy on the "sincerely
interested" part. Any interest in astronomy is a good thing, and I would
feed it with a modest telescope. If this boy's interest doesn't immediately
take off, or if it cools off, then so be it. Even in the worse case, maybe
in a couple of years he will take the scope out and look at the Moon, etc.
In fact, I think that many adult amateur astronomers have gone through a
rediscovery of an interest which had been pushed into the background or even
totally forgotten.
On a slightly different note, how about piano/music lessons?
Dennis
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Date: 01 Oct 2006 07:28:40
From: Joe S.
Subject: Re: Scope or binoculars for 12-year-old boy?
|
"Greg Bailey" <nowhereman@nowhereland.org > wrote in message
news:W7CdnYETQomL_ILYnZ2dnUVZ_s6dnZ2d@comcast.com...
> No. 1 son, age 12, has expressed a desire for a telescope for Christmas.
> He's always been very interested in rockets, spaceships, etc., he now says
> he'd like to look at the moon, stars, planets, etc.
>
> I know not to get him a "department store telescope." I had one of those
> when I was a kid and it was awful, to say the least.
>
> The thing is, I'm not sure my son is going to stay interested in this past
> Dec. 26. He'll go off on one tangent for a while, then switch to something
> else. He has ADD and has also been diagnosed as having borderline OCD, so
> we're talking about the attention span of a gnat, although again, he's
> stayed interested in space, as far as space travel, longer than anything
> else, maybe he can transfer that passion to astronomy.
>
> If I could know for sure that he would stay interested in it ... and take
> care of it, although he's beginning to mature somewhat he still can be
> irresponsible and not take care of his things, despite mine and his
> mother's best efforts; we're hoping it will just take some time ... I'd
> buy him an Orion SkyQuest XT 4.5 without a second thought.
>
> I don't know that for sure, so I'm not inclined to take that big a plunge
> with him just yet.
>
> So I'm looking at two options:
>
> 1. A Meade DS-80 EC, new in the box with warranty and the option to
> purchase an extended warranty, for roughly $90 including shipping from a
> vendor on eBay with 99.8 percent feedback. I know it's a lower end
> telescope, but I've seen some positive reviews for this model online that
> it's a step above the "department store" level.
>
> 2. Getting him a pair of binoculars to start with and see if he sticks
> with it, and if he does we can always get the Orion later.
>
> I'd appreciate any advice on what would be the best way to proceed here.
> And if the binocular route would be preferable, I'd appreciate some
> suggestions on specific models to look at.
>
> Thanks!
>
Binos to start with -- PLUS -- books and a planisphere:
"Skywatching" by David Levy -- excellent intro, includes maps of
constellations and star charts for various locations and times of year.
"Turn Left At Orion" -- tells you how to starhop around the sky, indicates
which objects are visible with binos and which need a scope.
"The Backyard Astronomer's Guide" -- excellent intro -- discusses getting
started, equipment, has star charts, etc.
With the binos and book(s) and planisphere, you do a lot:
-- He has the basics for a start.
-- If he drops out, you don't have too much invested (and you or someone
else in the family may pick up where he left off).
-- Binos can be used for more than looking at the sky -- birdwatching,
general nature watching.
If he sticks with it, the Orion 4.5 Dob is an excellent choice, or, you
could start with their 6- or 8-inch Dob, plus, I recommend getting the the
Intelliscope feature with the Dob.
http://www.schlatter.org/Dad/Astronomy/astro-pg-1.htm
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Date: 01 Oct 2006 07:45:10
From: Dennis Woos
Subject: Re: Scope or binoculars for 12-year-old boy?
|
> No. 1 son, age 12, has expressed a desire for a telescope for Christmas.
> He's always been very interested in rockets, spaceships, etc., he now says
> he'd like to look at the moon, stars, planets, etc.
>
> I know not to get him a "department store telescope." I had one of those
> when I was a kid and it was awful, to say the least.
>
> The thing is, I'm not sure my son is going to stay interested in this past
> Dec. 26. He'll go off on one tangent for a while, then switch to something
> else. He has ADD and has also been diagnosed as having borderline OCD, so
> we're talking about the attention span of a gnat, although again, he's
> stayed interested in space, as far as space travel, longer than anything
> else, maybe he can transfer that passion to astronomy.
>
> If I could know for sure that he would stay interested in it ... and take
> care of it, although he's beginning to mature somewhat he still can be
> irresponsible and not take care of his things, despite mine and his
> mother's best efforts; we're hoping it will just take some time ... I'd
> buy him an Orion SkyQuest XT 4.5 without a second thought.
>
> I don't know that for sure, so I'm not inclined to take that big a plunge
> with him just yet.
>
> So I'm looking at two options:
>
> 1. A Meade DS-80 EC, new in the box with warranty and the option to
> purchase an extended warranty, for roughly $90 including shipping from a
> vendor on eBay with 99.8 percent feedback. I know it's a lower end
> telescope, but I've seen some positive reviews for this model online that
> it's a step above the "department store" level.
>
> 2. Getting him a pair of binoculars to start with and see if he sticks
> with it, and if he does we can always get the Orion later.
>
> I'd appreciate any advice on what would be the best way to proceed here.
> And if the binocular route would be preferable, I'd appreciate some
> suggestions on specific models to look at.
>
> Thanks!
Binoculars are the smart choice, as they are useful no matter how your son's
interest pans out. However, binos ain't a telescope and he will probably be
dissappointed by them. I would get the Orion 4.5". However, be aware that
you, too, are going to have to learn how to use the scope as I doubt your
son is going to be able to figure it out on his own. Furthermore, your odds
of keeping him interested are probably better if you get interested in
astronomy, too. Definitely join your local astro club, where you will find
folks to learn and observe with. My sons look forward to our club's star
parties, and always have a great time.
Dennis
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Date: 01 Oct 2006 11:44:51
From: Bob Schmall
Subject: Re: Scope or binoculars for 12-year-old boy?
|
Greg Bailey wrote:
> No. 1 son, age 12, has expressed a desire for a telescope for Christmas.
> He's always been very interested in rockets, spaceships, etc., he now says
> he'd like to look at the moon, stars, planets, etc.
>
> I know not to get him a "department store telescope." I had one of those
> when I was a kid and it was awful, to say the least.
>
> The thing is, I'm not sure my son is going to stay interested in this past
> Dec. 26. He'll go off on one tangent for a while, then switch to something
> else. He has ADD and has also been diagnosed as having borderline OCD, so
> we're talking about the attention span of a gnat, although again, he's
> stayed interested in space, as far as space travel, longer than anything
> else, maybe he can transfer that passion to astronomy.
I'd go with the Orion dob in a 4.5" or 5", something easy to handle and
quick to set up. Reasons?
1. He may have ADD but owning and using a telescope may help him
overcome it. This would be a proactive step on your part.
2. These are serious scopes that won't frustrate him and end up staring
at the inside of the garage roof.
3. If things don't work out, it will not be the fault of the scope, and
you can sell it here or on Astromart for 80-90% of what you paid. This
is not the case with the DS-80.
4. I like binoculars myself, but they can be limiting in their own way.
For one thing, many deep sky objects are very hard to resolve and
identify for a beginner. For another, the planets and even the moon are
a lot less fascinating at 15x than at 50x. (YMMV) Then again, you didn't
mention how big #1 is and maybe binocs would be difficult for him to
manage. Lastly, even if he uses them he'll graduate to wanting a "real"
scope in a short time and you may be stuck with a pair of very large
binoculars that are difficult to use for terrestrial viewing.
The best part of it is that your son has maintained his interest in
space for some time, a very positive sign re the ADD.
Bob
>
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Date: 01 Oct 2006 09:47:59
From: Bob G.
Subject: Re: Scope or binoculars for 12-year-old boy?
|
>
>I'd go with the Orion dob in a 4.5" or 5", something easy to handle and
>quick to set up. Reasons?
>1. He may have ADD but owning and using a telescope may help him
>overcome it. This would be a proactive step on your part.
>2. These are serious scopes that won't frustrate him and end up staring
>at the inside of the garage roof.
for a 12 year old I also would recommend a 4 1/2 or 6 inch DOB....
Just the plain one without electronics etc... small enough that he
can use it by himself, large enough to see plenty of interesting
things, and may require just a little care (collimation every now and
then ..which a 12 year old should be able to do also by himself..
I am into my 60's...and I do own 3-4 pair of binocs...but looking back
to when I was 12 .. and waking up on Christmas morning a with a
Telescope under the tree would make me much happier...LOL
BTW... I also own a 40 dollar little Meade AT-70 refractor with a
table top mount that I purchased not too long ago at (of all places)
Radio Shack... Lots of plastic, but it works quite well sitting on the
patio table or a window sill ! For the price (not on sale) this
"old" guy could not pass it up... carry all the time behnd the seat of
my pickup...!
Bob G.
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| | | |
Date: 01 Oct 2006 15:04:14
From: Roger Hamlett
Subject: Re: Scope or binoculars for 12-year-old boy?
|
"Bob G." <rg327_remove_@adelphia.net > wrote in message
news:m6hvh25hit7hould618lrl253ipt3ftsuv@4ax.com...
> >
>>I'd go with the Orion dob in a 4.5" or 5", something easy to handle and
>>quick to set up. Reasons?
>>1. He may have ADD but owning and using a telescope may help him
>>overcome it. This would be a proactive step on your part.
>>2. These are serious scopes that won't frustrate him and end up staring
>>at the inside of the garage roof.
>
> for a 12 year old I also would recommend a 4 1/2 or 6 inch DOB....
> Just the plain one without electronics etc... small enough that he
> can use it by himself, large enough to see plenty of interesting
> things, and may require just a little care (collimation every now and
> then ..which a 12 year old should be able to do also by himself..
>
> I am into my 60's...and I do own 3-4 pair of binocs...but looking back
> to when I was 12 .. and waking up on Christmas morning a with a
> Telescope under the tree would make me much happier...LOL
>
> BTW... I also own a 40 dollar little Meade AT-70 refractor with a
> table top mount that I purchased not too long ago at (of all places)
> Radio Shack... Lots of plastic, but it works quite well sitting on the
> patio table or a window sill ! For the price (not on sale) this
> "old" guy could not pass it up... carry all the time behnd the seat of
> my pickup...!
I really have to second this. There are two seperate 'issues' here, both
what you can see, and the psychology. If working with a limited budget,
binoculars are the best value tool around, and are so damn portable,
_but_, if a child has set their heart on a 'scope', binoculars could
result in a massive feeling of 'let down'. In terms of what you can see
for the money, and 'useability', a small Dob, would have to be the
'choice' scope.
Unfortunately, neither will guarantee that the excitement will continue
very far....
You might want to find out if there is any sot of local astronomy club,
and even better if there is any sort of 'junior' section. One near me,
runs such a section, with some 'themed' evenings, and a small newsletter,
which is designed to try to help a little in keeping the interest.
Best Wishes
|
| | | | |
Date: 02 Oct 2006 10:52:46
From: Llanzlan Klazmon the 15th
Subject: Re: Scope or binoculars for 12-year-old boy?
|
"Roger Hamlett" <rogerspamignored@ttelmah.demon.co.uk > wrote in
news:ONQTg.41804$cx.2106@newsfe1-gui.ntli.net:
>
> "Bob G." <rg327_remove_@adelphia.net> wrote in message
> news:m6hvh25hit7hould618lrl253ipt3ftsuv@4ax.com...
>> >
>>>I'd go with the Orion dob in a 4.5" or 5", something easy to handle and
>>>quick to set up. Reasons?
>>>1. He may have ADD but owning and using a telescope may help him
>>>overcome it. This would be a proactive step on your part.
>>>2. These are serious scopes that won't frustrate him and end up staring
>>>at the inside of the garage roof.
>>
>> for a 12 year old I also would recommend a 4 1/2 or 6 inch DOB....
>> Just the plain one without electronics etc... small enough that he
>> can use it by himself, large enough to see plenty of interesting
>> things, and may require just a little care (collimation every now and
>> then ..which a 12 year old should be able to do also by himself..
>>
>> I am into my 60's...and I do own 3-4 pair of binocs...but looking back
>> to when I was 12 .. and waking up on Christmas morning a with a
>> Telescope under the tree would make me much happier...LOL
>>
>> BTW... I also own a 40 dollar little Meade AT-70 refractor with a
>> table top mount that I purchased not too long ago at (of all places)
>> Radio Shack... Lots of plastic, but it works quite well sitting on the
>> patio table or a window sill ! For the price (not on sale) this
>> "old" guy could not pass it up... carry all the time behnd the seat of
>> my pickup...!
> I really have to second this. There are two seperate 'issues' here, both
> what you can see, and the psychology. If working with a limited budget,
> binoculars are the best value tool around, and are so damn portable,
> _but_, if a child has set their heart on a 'scope', binoculars could
> result in a massive feeling of 'let down'. In terms of what you can see
> for the money, and 'useability', a small Dob, would have to be the
> 'choice' scope.
> Unfortunately, neither will guarantee that the excitement will continue
> very far....
> You might want to find out if there is any sot of local astronomy club,
> and even better if there is any sort of 'junior' section. One near me,
> runs such a section, with some 'themed' evenings, and a small newsletter,
> which is designed to try to help a little in keeping the interest.
>
> Best Wishes
>
Another problem with binos is that they are tiring to use unless you have
some sort of mount. Hand held - scanning to sky is pretty hard to keep up
for long especially viewing higher altitude areas of the sky.
Klazmon.
>
>
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Date: 01 Oct 2006 10:30:45
From: Andy Hewitt
Subject: Re: Scope or binoculars for 12-year-old boy?
|
Greg Bailey <nowhereman@nowhereland.org > wrote:
[..]
> 2. Getting him a pair of binoculars to start with and see if he sticks with
> it, and if he does we can always get the Orion later.
>
> I'd appreciate any advice on what would be the best way to proceed here. And
> if the binocular route would be preferable, I'd appreciate some suggestions
> on specific models to look at.
The Celestron SkyMaster 15x70 binoculars came top in the UK Sky At Night
magazine a couple of months ago. I got a pair myself, and they are very
good.
These will probably give your son an excellent start to the hobby.
Indeed, I normally use these more than the telescope at the moment. When
the weather isn't so good, you can just grab these for a short session,
without the bother of setting up too much. Do get a tripod as well
though.
The SkyWatcher 150M is a good starter telescope, it has a motorised
mount, and good optics for the price.
I have a Tal-1 scope myself, which is only a little bit more than the
SkyWatcher, a very sturdy Russian made scope, if a little basic.
However, the binoculars would be preferable to a budget telescope.
Whatever you get, look for ones marked with 'long eye relief', they have
larger eye pieces and give a better view in low light conditions.
--
Andy Hewitt
<http://www.thehewitts.eclipse.co.uk/ >
<http://web.mac.com/andrewhewitt1/ >
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Date: 01 Oct 2006 01:59:02
From: Starlord
Subject: Re: Scope or binoculars for 12-year-old boy?
|
If you live near an Astronomy club, you might take him out to a star party
so he can see just what he'd be getting into and if you where to join the
club, they might have a small dob you could rent for a month to let him try
it out.
--
The Lone Sidewalk Astronomer of Rosamond
Telescope Buyers FAQ
http://home.inreach.com/starlord
Sidewalk Astronomy
www.sidewalkastronomy.info
The Church of Eternity
http://home.inreach.com/starlord/church/Eternity.html
"Greg Bailey" <nowhereman@nowhereland.org > wrote in message
news:W7CdnYETQomL_ILYnZ2dnUVZ_s6dnZ2d@comcast.com...
> No. 1 son, age 12, has expressed a desire for a telescope for Christmas.
> He's always been very interested in rockets, spaceships, etc., he now says
> he'd like to look at the moon, stars, planets, etc.
>
> I know not to get him a "department store telescope." I had one of those
> when I was a kid and it was awful, to say the least.
>
> The thing is, I'm not sure my son is going to stay interested in this past
> Dec. 26. He'll go off on one tangent for a while, then switch to something
> else. He has ADD and has also been diagnosed as having borderline OCD, so
> we're talking about the attention span of a gnat, although again, he's
> stayed interested in space, as far as space travel, longer than anything
> else, maybe he can transfer that passion to astronomy.
>
> If I could know for sure that he would stay interested in it ... and take
> care of it, although he's beginning to mature somewhat he still can be
> irresponsible and not take care of his things, despite mine and his
> mother's best efforts; we're hoping it will just take some time ... I'd
> buy him an Orion SkyQuest XT 4.5 without a second thought.
>
> I don't know that for sure, so I'm not inclined to take that big a plunge
> with him just yet.
>
> So I'm looking at two options:
>
> 1. A Meade DS-80 EC, new in the box with warranty and the option to
> purchase an extended warranty, for roughly $90 including shipping from a
> vendor on eBay with 99.8 percent feedback. I know it's a lower end
> telescope, but I've seen some positive reviews for this model online that
> it's a step above the "department store" level.
>
> 2. Getting him a pair of binoculars to start with and see if he sticks
> with it, and if he does we can always get the Orion later.
>
> I'd appreciate any advice on what would be the best way to proceed here.
> And if the binocular route would be preferable, I'd appreciate some
> suggestions on specific models to look at.
>
> Thanks!
>
|
| |
Date: 01 Oct 2006 17:08:19
From: Brian Tung
Subject: Re: Scope or binoculars for 12-year-old boy?
|
Greg Bailey wrote:
> 1. A Meade DS-80 EC, new in the box with warranty and the option to purchase
> an extended warranty, for roughly $90 including shipping from a vendor on
> eBay with 99.8 percent feedback. I know it's a lower end telescope, but I've
> seen some positive reviews for this model online that it's a step above the
> "department store" level.
>
> 2. Getting him a pair of binoculars to start with and see if he sticks with
> it, and if he does we can always get the Orion later.
>
> I'd appreciate any advice on what would be the best way to proceed here. And
> if the binocular route would be preferable, I'd appreciate some suggestions
> on specific models to look at.
For a child with a short attention span, I'd get a telescope, one that's
multiple use. The idea is to be able to use it as often as possible,
and a telescope that can be used terrestrially will permit that. That
generally means a refractor. Given that it will probably be not too big
(no larger than 100 mm), I would avoid a goto telescope, since most of
the targets you'll have problems finding will be too dim to get much of
a response.
Overall, I'd recommend an 80 or 90 mm refractor on a simple, decent
alt-azimuth mount. The image will be mirror-reversed (unless you get a
correct-image diagonal), but that won't matter for observing, only
navigation. So you may want to add in a red-dot finder. That should
also be usable for pointing at terrestrial stuff during the day, too.
--
Brian Tung <brian@isi.edu >
The Astronomy Corner at http://astro.isi.edu/
Unofficial C5+ Home Page at http://astro.isi.edu/c5plus/
The PleiadAtlas Home Page at http://astro.isi.edu/pleiadatlas/
My Own Personal FAQ (SAA) at http://astro.isi.edu/reference/faq.html
|
| |
Date: 01 Oct 2006 13:05:20
From:
Subject: Re: Scope or binoculars for 12-year-old boy?
|
dunkin wrote:
> "Dennis Woos" <dpwoos@gmavt.net> wrote in message
> news:12hvmng1r981ef2@corp.supernews.com...
> >> Keep in mind to see deep sky objects you need at least a 6" aperature
> >> and must be in a dark location (30 miles from a city). If you are not
> >> prepared to trek out to a remote location, not much point in it.
> >
> > This is incorrect. A 4.5" dob will provide good views of dozens of DSOs
> > even from a relatively light-polluted site, and good views of double
> > stars, the Moon, Saturn, Jupiter and (with the proper filter) the Sun from
> > anywhere. The biggest problem in observing in bad light-pollution is
> > finding stuff.
>
> Your advise is contrary to all I've heard and experienced.
> Where do you live? What DSOs have you seen with your 4.5" in that location?
>
> I can barely make out Andromeda in my city location, much less any other
> DSO.
I agree with Dennis Woos on this. There ARE dozens of nebulae,
clusters and even galaxies visible from light-polluted areas, even with
small scopes. I found and viewed detail in many of them with a 3-inch
reflector under a sky that was no better than magnitude 4 or 5. M-31
was easy.
|
| |
Date: 01 Oct 2006 23:47:22
From: Rune Allnor
Subject: Re: Scope or binoculars for 12-year-old boy?
|
Brian Tung skrev:
> Overall, I'd recommend an 80 or 90 mm refractor on a simple, decent
> alt-azimuth mount. The image will be mirror-reversed (unless you get a
> correct-image diagonal), but that won't matter for observing, only
> navigation. So you may want to add in a red-dot finder. That should
> also be usable for pointing at terrestrial stuff during the day, too.
I agree with your analysis. But then, there is this budget issue.
The decent-quality refractors I know of, run at prices well into the
four figures, USD. If we assume a budget on the order of $100
or thereabouts, I think refractors might not get to the short list...
Rune
|
| | |
Date: 02 Oct 2006 07:53:13
From: Dennis Woos
Subject: Re: Scope or binoculars for 12-year-old boy?
|
> Brian Tung skrev:
>
>> Overall, I'd recommend an 80 or 90 mm refractor on a simple, decent
>> alt-azimuth mount. The image will be mirror-reversed (unless you get a
>> correct-image diagonal), but that won't matter for observing, only
>> navigation. So you may want to add in a red-dot finder. That should
>> also be usable for pointing at terrestrial stuff during the day, too.
>
> I agree with your analysis. But then, there is this budget issue.
> The decent-quality refractors I know of, run at prices well into the
> four figures, USD. If we assume a budget on the order of $100
> or thereabouts, I think refractors might not get to the short list...
>
> Rune
>
One can purchase a "decent-quality" 80mm f/5-ish achromat ota for a couple
of hundred dollars. We built ours for < $100 by purchasing an objective
lens (Rini/Edmund) and focuser, and using pvc plumbing parts and MDF for the
rest. Surprisingly nice views. That said, I would still go with a dob as
being the bestest for the leastest.
Dennis
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Date: 02 Oct 2006 10:22:27
From: Brian Tung
Subject: Re: Scope or binoculars for 12-year-old boy?
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Dennis Woos wrote:
> One can purchase a "decent-quality" 80mm f/5-ish achromat ota for a couple
> of hundred dollars. We built ours for < $100 by purchasing an objective
> lens (Rini/Edmund) and focuser, and using pvc plumbing parts and MDF for the
> rest. Surprisingly nice views. That said, I would still go with a dob as
> being the bestest for the leastest.
It is the best for astronomy enthusiasts. I'm concerned the child may
not be one, and I would rather parent and child do *something* together
with the optics than have it sit in the garage because the astronomy bug
comes and goes in short order. The celestial views in a 6-inch dob do
blow away those in an 80 mm refractor, but the terrestrial views in the
80 mm refractor are even more appealing--at least, to those benighted
souls who lack the astronomy bug. :)
The 80 mm refractor also makes a better solar scope--you can do
projection with it, whereas you can't do that with the dob, with which
you really have to use a full aperture filter.
--
Brian Tung <brian@isi.edu >
The Astronomy Corner at http://astro.isi.edu/
Unofficial C5+ Home Page at http://astro.isi.edu/c5plus/
The PleiadAtlas Home Page at http://astro.isi.edu/pleiadatlas/
My Own Personal FAQ (SAA) at http://astro.isi.edu/reference/faq.html
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Date: 02 Oct 2006 13:51:18
From: Dennis Woos
Subject: Re: Scope or binoculars for 12-year-old boy?
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> The 80 mm refractor also makes a better solar scope--you can do
> projection with it, whereas you can't do that with the dob, with which
> you really have to use a full aperture filter.
>
I totally agree on the merits of a little refractor, and have several
myself. However, I don't see that they make a better solar scope. I have
made a number of very inexpensive solar filters from the Baader Planetarium
material, and they work great. To be fair, I have never tried the
projection method, but I don't see how it is any better than a filter.
Dennis
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Date: 02 Oct 2006 13:53:52
From: Brian Tung
Subject: Re: Scope or binoculars for 12-year-old boy?
|
Dennis Woos wrote:
> I totally agree on the merits of a little refractor, and have several
> myself. However, I don't see that they make a better solar scope. I have
> made a number of very inexpensive solar filters from the Baader Planetarium
> material, and they work great. To be fair, I have never tried the
> projection method, but I don't see how it is any better than a filter.
I find it better for multiple people, that's all. Direct through a
filter is certainly better for individual viewing--I won't argue with
you there.
Also--though admittedly, this is blowing right on by any budgetary
concerns of the OP--it's probably easier to mate a hydrogen-alpha
filter with the refractor than with the dob.
--
Brian Tung <brian@isi.edu >
The Astronomy Corner at http://astro.isi.edu/
Unofficial C5+ Home Page at http://astro.isi.edu/c5plus/
The PleiadAtlas Home Page at http://astro.isi.edu/pleiadatlas/
My Own Personal FAQ (SAA) at http://astro.isi.edu/reference/faq.html
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Date: 02 Oct 2006 17:36:38
From: Dennis Woos
Subject: Re: Scope or binoculars for 12-year-old boy?
|
> Also--though admittedly, this is blowing right on by any budgetary
> concerns of the OP--it's probably easier to mate a hydrogen-alpha
> filter with the refractor than with the dob.
I have never seen a hydrogen-alpha filter on anything other than a
refractor. Hmm.
Dennis
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Date: 02 Oct 2006 16:20:02
From: Brian Tung
Subject: Re: Scope or binoculars for 12-year-old boy?
|
Dennis Woos wrote:
> I have never seen a hydrogen-alpha filter on anything other than a
> refractor. Hmm.
Over at the LAAS, we have some folks who put off-axis H-alpha filters
on their SCTs. I got my first view of the H-alpha sun that way. Then
I asked how much it cost, and I'm afraid the answer wasn't very
encouraging. :-T
But I have one now. Really enjoy it.
--
Brian Tung <brian@isi.edu >
The Astronomy Corner at http://astro.isi.edu/
Unofficial C5+ Home Page at http://astro.isi.edu/c5plus/
The PleiadAtlas Home Page at http://astro.isi.edu/pleiadatlas/
My Own Personal FAQ (SAA) at http://astro.isi.edu/reference/faq.html
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Date: 03 Oct 2006 07:51:13
From: AM
Subject: Re: Scope or binoculars for 12-year-old boy?
|
Brian Tung wrote:
> Dennis Woos wrote:
>
>>I have never seen a hydrogen-alpha filter on anything other than a
>>refractor. Hmm.
>
>
> Over at the LAAS, we have some folks who put off-axis H-alpha filters
> on their SCTs. I got my first view of the H-alpha sun that way. Then
> I asked how much it cost, and I'm afraid the answer wasn't very
> encouraging. :-T
>
> But I have one now. Really enjoy it.
>
Hi Brian.
Did you get the Lumicon version ?
If you did, what do you think of it, and
how does it perform ?
If you dont mind, I am interested, and curious.
--
AM
http://sctuser.home.comcast.net
CentOS 4.3 KDE 3.3
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Date: 03 Oct 2006 09:27:10
From: Brian Tung
Subject: Re: Scope or binoculars for 12-year-old boy?
|
AM wrote (about my H-alpha filter):
> Did you get the Lumicon version ?
> If you did, what do you think of it, and
> how does it perform ?
>
> If you dont mind, I am interested, and curious.
No, I don't mind, but I didn't get the Lumicon filter. I thought about
it back before the Coronado ones came out, but decided against it. (I
didn't have the refractor back then, which probably influenced my
decision.) Then in 2002 (I think), I got the Coronado.
Incidentally, the first day I was able to use it under a cloudless sky,
there was a prominence that stretched probably 200,000 km off the limb
of the Sun. I thought, in my naivete, that it would be like that all
the time. Alas for that.
But I love the filter. I use it every weekend, and some weekdays, too.
--
Brian Tung <brian@isi.edu >
The Astronomy Corner at http://astro.isi.edu/
Unofficial C5+ Home Page at http://astro.isi.edu/c5plus/
The PleiadAtlas Home Page at http://astro.isi.edu/pleiadatlas/
My Own Personal FAQ (SAA) at http://astro.isi.edu/reference/faq.html
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Date: 03 Oct 2006 07:48:12
From: AM
Subject: Re: Scope or binoculars for 12-year-old boy?
|
Dennis Woos wrote:
> myself. However, I don't see that they make a better solar scope. I have
> made a number of very inexpensive solar filters from the Baader Planetarium
> material, and they work great. To be fair, I have never tried the
> projection method, but I don't see how it is any better than a filter.
>
> Dennis
>
>
Best bet is the Baader material you described.
It is NOT a good idea with ANY scope to use
it to project the sun, it heats up internals
unecessarally.
Same with a Herschel Wedge.
Solar (white light) filters are sooo cheap now,
no excuse to try other risky ideas.
And for $500 there's the PST :)
--
AM
http://sctuser.home.comcast.net
CentOS 4.3 KDE 3.3
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Date: 03 Oct 2006 09:29:34
From: Brian Tung
Subject: Re: Scope or binoculars for 12-year-old boy?
|
AM wrote:
> Best bet is the Baader material you described.
> It is NOT a good idea with ANY scope to use
> it to project the sun, it heats up internals
> unecessarally.
It's a perfectly fine idea with a small refractor. Lens absorption is
much less than mirror absorption, which is why it's not such a good idea
with a reflecting or catadioptric telescope.
Nonetheless, the image, even under the best of circumstances, is not as
good as a direct through-the-eyepiece view with a filter. The benefit
is that you get to share it with multiple people at once, and you can
point stuff out on it, and so forth.
--
Brian Tung <brian@isi.edu >
The Astronomy Corner at http://astro.isi.edu/
Unofficial C5+ Home Page at http://astro.isi.edu/c5plus/
The PleiadAtlas Home Page at http://astro.isi.edu/pleiadatlas/
My Own Personal FAQ (SAA) at http://astro.isi.edu/reference/faq.html
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Date: 02 Oct 2006 10:18:02
From: Brian Tung
Subject: Re: Scope or binoculars for 12-year-old boy?
|
Rune Allnor wrote:
> I agree with your analysis. But then, there is this budget issue.
> The decent-quality refractors I know of, run at prices well into the
> four figures, USD. If we assume a budget on the order of $100
> or thereabouts, I think refractors might not get to the short list...
A short-tube 80 qualifies in my opinion, and it certainly is not into
the four figures--more like $200 to $300.
I thought one of the OP's choices was a 80 mm goto, wasn't it? I just
didn't think goto was worth it for a child at that aperture. For an
adult, possibly, but not a child--not one with a short attention span.
--
Brian Tung <brian@isi.edu >
The Astronomy Corner at http://astro.isi.edu/
Unofficial C5+ Home Page at http://astro.isi.edu/c5plus/
The PleiadAtlas Home Page at http://astro.isi.edu/pleiadatlas/
My Own Personal FAQ (SAA) at http://astro.isi.edu/reference/faq.html
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Date: 02 Oct 2006 11:09:32
From: Shelldigger
Subject: Re: Scope or binoculars for 12-year-old boy?
|
Great advice for the most part already, Ill chime in with a nod for the
4.5 - 6" dob.
Sturdy mounts, very capable optics, small enough for a kid to handle,
and relatively cheap.
I am a binocular lover too, and while I think they are great, I dont
think Id get them for my boys. While I can collimate binos, I dont want
to spend the rest of my days doing it.
Nothing wrong with a good wide field refractor either. Thing is, light
gathering in the bigger dobs will give brighter "wow" images. That
said, my boys are getting my ST90 Orion for X-mas. I replaced it with
an ED80 and kept it just in case they showed serious interest in the
hobby. I believe they are ready. Ive already built an alt/az mount for
it. They are also getting a decent microscope. I have vowed to no
longer buy cheap plastic crap that gets tossed out in a month or two! (
I hate Plastic Mart )
The oldest boy, a stepson, is 10 and suffers from ADHD, with medication
and ass whuppins as necessary, he is making great strides. I know where
you are coming from! Sometimes I think they should medicate the parents
too...ADHD can be a bitch.
As in all online opinions, YMMV
Charles
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Date: 05 Oct 2006 10:58:45
From:
Subject: Re: Scope or binoculars for 12-year-old boy?
|
Why not the Meade 114mm OTA from their factory outlet? I think it's
about 45 dollars shipped to your door. I've heard good things about it.
Build a Dob base with your son as a father/son project, it would
probably better than anything commercially available and fun too!
Gene DiGennaro
Baltimore Md.
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