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Main
Date: 02 Sep 2006 08:01:35
From: Rich
Subject: Pluto kooks make the ultimate appeal
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Because Tombaugh was a "hero" Pluto should remain a planet. Unreal.
LAS CRUCES, New Mexico (AP) -- Size doesn't matter.
That was the message as friends and colleagues of the late Clyde
Tombaugh, the astronomer who discovered Pluto, gathered on the New
Mexico State University campus to protest the International
Astronomical Union's recent decision to strip Pluto of its status as a
planet.
About 50 students and staff members turned out Friday for the
good-natured challenge. Some were wearing T-shirts and carrying signs
that read "Protest for Pluto" and "Size Doesn't Matter."
Tombaugh's widow, Patricia, and their son, Al Tombaugh, also
participated.
NMSU astronomer Bernie McNamara told the crowd that textbooks shouldn't
be rewritten.
"Why not? Because the debate is not over," McNamara said.
The IAU determined last week that a planet must orbit the sun and be
large enough to assume a nearly round shape as well as "clear the
neighborhood around its orbit." Pluto's oblong orbit overlaps
Neptune's, which led the IAU to downsize the solar system to eight
planets from the traditional nine. (Full story)
McNamara argued that only about 400 of the union's thousands of members
were present when the August 24 vote was taken.
"This was not a statement by the astronomical community at large," he
said, adding that a petition opposing the IAU definition of a planet is
circulating among the world's planetary scientists and astronomers.
Tombaugh was 24 when he discovered Pluto while working at Lowell
Observatory in Flagstaff, Arizona, in 1930. He came to NMSU in 1955 and
founded the school's research astronomy department.
His legacy is visible across the city, where an observatory, a campus
street and an elementary school bear his name.
Some say Tombaugh's discovery was significant because it took 60 years
for stronger telescopes to locate another object with an unusual orbit
like Pluto's, and 73 years before scientists discovered a bigger object
in the area.
"Clyde Tombaugh was an American hero," said Herb Beebe, a longtime
colleague. "For that reason alone, Pluto's status as a full-fledged
planet should be kept."
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Date: 02 Sep 2006 09:35:11
From: Rich
Subject: Re: Pluto kooks make the ultimate appeal
|
RMOLLISE wrote:
> Rich:
>
> IMHO Clyde Tombaugh was a _hero_ NOT a "hero." And not just because of
> all those hours at the blink comparator. ;-)
Why?
>
> Did you ever meet the man?
>
No. So what?
> OTOH, no way do I think Pluto should continue to be considered a major
> planet.
It's not a planet. Dwarf planet is a partial sop to the "Pluto is a
planet" crowd.
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Date: 02 Sep 2006 09:15:33
From:
Subject: Re: Pluto kooks make the ultimate appeal
|
"We can forgive a child
who is afraid of the dark.
The real tragedy of life
is when men are afraid
of the light." --Plato
RMOLLISE wrote:
> Rich:
>
> IMHO Clyde Tombaugh was a _hero_ NOT a "hero." And not just because of
> all those hours at the blink comparator. ;-)
>
> Did you ever meet the man?
>
> OTOH, no way do I think Pluto should continue to be considered a major
> planet.
>
> Peace,
> Rod Mollise
> Author of:
> Choosing and Using a Schmidt Cassegrain Telescope
> and
> The Urban Astronomer's Guide
> <http://skywatch.brainiac.com/astroland>
> The Annual SCT User Imaging Contest is Underway!
> <http://www.rothritter.com/contest/2006/>
>
> Rich wrote:
> > Because Tombaugh was a "hero" Pluto should remain a planet. Unreal.
> >
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Date: 02 Sep 2006 08:17:32
From: RMOLLISE
Subject: Re: Pluto kooks make the ultimate appeal
|
Rich:
IMHO Clyde Tombaugh was a _hero_ NOT a "hero." And not just because of
all those hours at the blink comparator. ;-)
Did you ever meet the man?
OTOH, no way do I think Pluto should continue to be considered a major
planet.
Peace,
Rod Mollise
Author of:
Choosing and Using a Schmidt Cassegrain Telescope
and
The Urban Astronomer's Guide
<http://skywatch.brainiac.com/astroland >
The Annual SCT User Imaging Contest is Underway!
<http://www.rothritter.com/contest/2006/ >
Rich wrote:
> Because Tombaugh was a "hero" Pluto should remain a planet. Unreal.
>
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Date: 02 Sep 2006 16:21:00
From: Chris L Peterson
Subject: Re: Pluto kooks make the ultimate appeal
|
On 2 Sep 2006 08:17:32 -0700, "RMOLLISE" <rmollise@hotmail.com > wrote:
>OTOH, no way do I think Pluto should continue to be considered a major
>planet.
It has been years since Pluto was considered a "major planet". I don't
think there is any controversy in that regard.
_________________________________________________
Chris L Peterson
Cloudbait Observatory
http://www.cloudbait.com
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Date: 02 Sep 2006 15:17:13
From: Chris L Peterson
Subject: Re: Pluto kooks make the ultimate appeal
|
On 2 Sep 2006 08:01:35 -0700, "Rich" <rander3127@gmail.com > wrote:
>Because Tombaugh was a "hero" Pluto should remain a planet. Unreal.
Not at all. It simply recognizes the historical meaning of the word
"planet" - a perfectly reasonable position. It has nothing at all to do
with how planetary bodies are classified.
_________________________________________________
Chris L Peterson
Cloudbait Observatory
http://www.cloudbait.com
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Date: 03 Sep 2006 10:13:59
From: Paul Schlyter
Subject: Re: Pluto kooks make the ultimate appeal
|
In article <eu7jf2tjbbslcbdvn3viq4645hp5i085s1@4ax.com >,
Chris L Peterson <clp@alumni.caltech.edu > wrote:
> On 2 Sep 2006 08:01:35 -0700, "Rich" <rander3127@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Because Tombaugh was a "hero" Pluto should remain a planet. Unreal.
>
> Not at all. It simply recognizes the historical meaning of the word
> "planet" - a perfectly reasonable position. It has nothing at all to do
> with how planetary bodies are classified.
There are several varieties of "historical meaning of the word planet".
1. Planet = Sun Moon Mercury Venus Mars Jupiter Saturn
2. Planet = Mercury Venus Earth Mars Jupiter Saturn
3. Planet = Mercury Venus Earth Mars Ceres Pallas Juno Vesta
Jupiter Saturn Uranus Neptune
4. Planet = Mercury Venus Earth Mars Jupiter Saturn Uranus Neptune Pluto
Which one do you think we should pick, and why?
--
----------------------------------------------------------------
Paul Schlyter, Grev Turegatan 40, SE-114 38 Stockholm, SWEDEN
e-mail: pausch at stockholm dot bostream dot se
WWW: http://stjarnhimlen.se/
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Date: 03 Sep 2006 13:42:56
From: Chris L Peterson
Subject: Re: Pluto kooks make the ultimate appeal
|
On Sun, 03 Sep 2006 10:13:59 GMT, pausch@saaf.se (Paul Schlyter) wrote:
>There are several varieties of "historical meaning of the word planet".
>
>1. Planet = Sun Moon Mercury Venus Mars Jupiter Saturn
>
>2. Planet = Mercury Venus Earth Mars Jupiter Saturn
>
>3. Planet = Mercury Venus Earth Mars Ceres Pallas Juno Vesta
> Jupiter Saturn Uranus Neptune
>
>4. Planet = Mercury Venus Earth Mars Jupiter Saturn Uranus Neptune Pluto
>
>Which one do you think we should pick, and why?
I don't think we should "pick" any. I think that #4 represents the most
common usage for the last couple of centuries (with Pluto for the last
75 years, of course). If the usage evolves, that's fine. I just don't
think it was wise to attempt a rigorous definition of a word that
already carries so much baggage (nor is it necessary). Of course, this
has nothing at all to do with the effort to actually classify and
categorize stellar satellites, a useful effort which I think has
actually been hindered by all the flap over "planet".
_________________________________________________
Chris L Peterson
Cloudbait Observatory
http://www.cloudbait.com
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Date: 04 Sep 2006 07:43:03
From: Paul Schlyter
Subject: Re: Pluto kooks make the ultimate appeal
|
In article <9lmlf2tp2esgb7r7e8jttqui3355dnta4d@4ax.com >,
Chris L Peterson <clp@alumni.caltech.edu > wrote:
> On Sun, 03 Sep 2006 10:13:59 GMT, pausch@saaf.se (Paul Schlyter) wrote:
>
>>There are several varieties of "historical meaning of the word planet".
>>
>> 1. Planet = Sun Moon Mercury Venus Mars Jupiter Saturn
>>
>> 2. Planet = Mercury Venus Earth Mars Jupiter Saturn
>>
>> 3. Planet = Mercury Venus Earth Mars Ceres Pallas Juno Vesta
>> Jupiter Saturn Uranus Neptune
>>
>> 4. Planet = Mercury Venus Earth Mars Jupiter Saturn Uranus Neptune Pluto
>>
>> Which one do you think we should pick, and why?
>
> I don't think we should "pick" any. I think that #4 represents the most
> common usage for the last couple of centuries (with Pluto for the last
> 75 years, of course).
Between 1807 and ca 1845, #3 was the most common usage. So your "last
couple of centuries" was an exaggreation (without Neptune of course, since
it wasn't known at that time).
> If the usage evolves, that's fine. I just don't
> think it was wise to attempt a rigorous definition of a word that
> already carries so much baggage (nor is it necessary).
The definition wasn't rigorous. It relied on the two fuzzy concepts
of "nearly round" and "has cleared the neighbourhood". A genuinely
rigorous definition would instead have specified a maximum tolerable
deviation from "roundness" as well as a maximum tolerable density of
other objects near the orbit (which is greater than zero for all major
planets in our solar system). But doing so would otoh have introduced
arbitrary limits.
> Of course, this
> has nothing at all to do with the effort to actually classify and
> categorize stellar satellites, a useful effort which I think has
> actually been hindered by all the flap over "planet".
>
> _________________________________________________
>
> Chris L Peterson
> Cloudbait Observatory
> http://www.cloudbait.com
--
----------------------------------------------------------------
Paul Schlyter, Grev Turegatan 40, SE-114 38 Stockholm, SWEDEN
e-mail: pausch at stockholm dot bostream dot se
WWW: http://stjarnhimlen.se/
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Date: 04 Sep 2006 15:08:05
From: Chris L Peterson
Subject: Re: Pluto kooks make the ultimate appeal
|
On Mon, 04 Sep 2006 07:43:03 GMT, pausch@saaf.se (Paul Schlyter) wrote:
>Between 1807 and ca 1845, #3 was the most common usage. So your "last
>couple of centuries" was an exaggreation (without Neptune of course, since
>it wasn't known at that time).
I'm not at all certain that's really the case. I'm aware of the period
of confusion that followed the discovery of Ceres and other asteroids;
the degree to which that affected popular use of "planet" isn't really
clear from what I've read.
But it doesn't matter. My position is simply that the meaning of
"planet" is best left to common usage. It serves the public better, and
IMO it also serves science better.
_________________________________________________
Chris L Peterson
Cloudbait Observatory
http://www.cloudbait.com
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Date: 04 Sep 2006 09:33:29
From: Greg Crinklaw
Subject: Re: Pluto kooks make the ultimate appeal
|
Chris L Peterson wrote:
> But it doesn't matter. My position is simply that the meaning of
> "planet" is best left to common usage. It serves the public better, and
> IMO it also serves science better.
In a perfect world, yes. But unfortunately when astronomers start
holding press conferences to announce the amazing historic discovery of
"the tenth planet", the people look to the astronomical community to
answer the question, "Is that really a planet?" Then the astronomical
community collectively points its finger at the IAU...
--
Greg Crinklaw
Astronomical Software Developer
Cloudcroft, New Mexico, USA (33N, 106W, 2700m)
SkyTools: http://www.skyhound.com/cs.html
Observing: http://www.skyhound.com/sh/skyhound.html
Comets: http://www.skyhound.com/sh/comets.html
To reply take out your eye
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Date: 02 Sep 2006 18:08:34
From: RMOLLISE
Subject: Re: Pluto kooks make the ultimate appeal
|
Rich wrote:
> You need to re-adjust your bearings. Saying someone isn't a hero who
> never WAS a hero is not speaking ill of the dead. I'm sure Tombaugh
> was a very thorough, competent worker and a decent fellow. But sifting
> through loads of images with a blink comparator does not make someone a
> "hero."
I don't need to adjust my bearings whatsover. If you knew a blamed
thing about Clyde Tombaugh, you'd know he didn't think of himself as a
hero. You or anybody referring to him as such, or suggesting he thought
himself one would have given one good laugh.
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Date: 02 Sep 2006 17:26:50
From: Rich
Subject: Re: Pluto kooks make the ultimate appeal
|
RMOLLISE wrote:
> Rich wrote:
> > RMOLLISE wrote:
> > > Rich:
> > >
> > > IMHO Clyde Tombaugh was a _hero_ NOT a "hero." And not just because of
> > > all those hours at the blink comparator. ;-)
> >
> > Why?
> >
> > >
> > > Did you ever meet the man?
> > >
>
>
> Simply because if you had, it's possible you wouldn't be quite so ready
> to speak ill of the dead.
You need to re-adjust your bearings. Saying someone isn't a hero who
never WAS a hero is not speaking ill of the dead. I'm sure Tombaugh
was a very thorough, competent worker and a decent fellow. But sifting
through loads of images with a blink comparator does not make someone a
"hero."
>
> Peace,
> Rod Mollise
> Author of:
> Choosing and Using a Schmidt Cassegrain Telescope
> and
> The Urban Astronomer's Guide
> <http://skywatch.brainiac.com/astroland>
> The Annual SCT User Imaging Contest is Underway!
> <http://www.rothritter.com/contest/2006/>
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Date: 03 Sep 2006 10:14:00
From: Paul Schlyter
Subject: Re: Pluto kooks make the ultimate appeal
|
In article <1157243210.239294.155490@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com >,
Rich <rander3127@gmail.com > wrote:
> RMOLLISE wrote:
>> Rich wrote:
>>> RMOLLISE wrote:
>>>> Rich:
>>>>
>>>> IMHO Clyde Tombaugh was a _hero_ NOT a "hero." And not just because of
>>>> all those hours at the blink comparator. ;-)
>>>
>>> Why?
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Did you ever meet the man?
>>
>> Simply because if you had, it's possible you wouldn't be quite so ready
>> to speak ill of the dead.
>
> You need to re-adjust your bearings. Saying someone isn't a hero who
> never WAS a hero is not speaking ill of the dead. I'm sure Tombaugh
> was a very thorough, competent worker and a decent fellow. But sifting
> through loads of images with a blink comparator does not make someone a
> "hero."
A hero is someone who, voluntarily, risks his own life for some greater
cause. One usual greater cause is to save the lives of other people. But
it could also be to e.g. explore a new unknown continent. The early
explores of the areas around the north and the south pole did literaly
risk their lives - they couldn't call for an airplane if something went
wrong. And a number of them also died during their expeditions.
Tombaugh is said to have been a humble person and would most likely
not consider himself a hero. His work was in no way a danger for his
life. But he worked very thoroughly - he didn't merely "sift through
loads of images with a blink comparator". He started doing that, sure,
but later he also planned how to best take new photographs (on glass
plates) of the sky in order to have the greatest chance of detecting
a new planet far out, and also carried through the photography.
When Pluto was discovered, Tombaugh didn't stop -- instead he
continued searching through the skies with his plates and his blink
comparator, and searched through some 70% of the skies two or three
times more. He found no other trans-neptunian object, and afterwards
he felt certain that there was no unknown trans-neptunian object
brighter than magnitude 16. Today, 70 years later, he's still right
about that - all the Kuiper-belt objects which have been discovered
was fainter than magnitude 20.
In the 1950's, Tombaugh and his technique was used to answer another
question: does the Earth have additional natural satellites besides
the Moon? Tombaugh participated in such a search, and the result was
negative. This was shortly before the first artificial satellites
were launched.
Now, when Pluto officially has lost its planetary status, there's been
an "uproar" against this, which seems to have US nationalism as a major
ingredient. It's this US nationalism which wants to declare Tombaugh
a "hero" - after all, he's the only US citizen which discovered a
planet -- at least until recently, when Pluto lost its planetary
status. Denying that Tombaugh is a "hero" isn't to "speak ill of the
dead" - but it is a disapproval of this US nationalism.
However, I think one can view this in another way: Tombaugh didn't
discover the 9'th planet, Pluto, sunce Pluto turned out to not be
a planet. Instead, Tombaugh made a more important discovery: our
solar system has only 8 major planets. There have been numerous
seraches for "Planet X" after Pluto's discovery -- all of them were
negative. True, we cannot be absolutely certain that there isn't
a major planet which is far enough out to have eluded discovery,
but it appears less and less likely that there is one. Tombaugh
was a visionary who believed this already in the 1930's, some 70
years ago. The current redefinition of the word "planet" can be
seen as a salutation of Tombaugh's discovery that there are only
8 major planets in our solar system.
--
----------------------------------------------------------------
Paul Schlyter, Grev Turegatan 40, SE-114 38 Stockholm, SWEDEN
e-mail: pausch at stockholm dot bostream dot se
WWW: http://stjarnhimlen.se/
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Date: 03 Sep 2006 20:47:00
From: Greg Crinklaw
Subject: Re: Pluto kooks make the ultimate appeal
|
Paul Schlyter wrote:
> Now, when Pluto officially has lost its planetary status, there's been
> an "uproar" against this, which seems to have US nationalism as a major
> ingredient. It's this US nationalism which wants to declare Tombaugh
> a "hero" - after all, he's the only US citizen which discovered a
> planet -- at least until recently, when Pluto lost its planetary
> status. Denying that Tombaugh is a "hero" isn't to "speak ill of the
> dead" - but it is a disapproval of this US nationalism.
I agree with you except for the part above. You are seeing "US
nationalism" through your anti-American colored glasses. There are
plenty of other perfectly good and valid reasons to wish Pluto remain a
planet. It is disrespectful of you you to denigrate these other points
of view by writing them off as nationalism.
--
Greg Crinklaw
Astronomical Software Developer
Cloudcroft, New Mexico, USA (33N, 106W, 2700m)
SkyTools: http://www.skyhound.com/cs.html
Observing: http://www.skyhound.com/sh/skyhound.html
Comets: http://www.skyhound.com/sh/comets.html
To reply take out your eye
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Date: 06 Sep 2006 11:24:24
From: Mr. Sylvestre
Subject: Re: Pluto kooks make the ultimate appeal
|
IMHO, one doesn't need "anti-American colored glasses" to respectfully
wonder whether a bit of nationalism might be an ingredient in the uproar.
From the original post:
"Clyde Tombaugh was an American hero," said Herb Beebe, a longtime
colleague. "For that reason alone, Pluto's status as a full-fledged
planet should be kept."
If it quacks like a duck...
As an amateur astronomer, I have no firm opinion on what Pluto's status
should be and I'll happily leave the debate to the professionals, but
I'd rather expect them to base their definition on science.
Regards,
Mr. Sylvestre
Greg Crinklaw wrote:
> Paul Schlyter wrote:
>
>> Now, when Pluto officially has lost its planetary status, there's been
>> an "uproar" against this, which seems to have US nationalism as a major
>> ingredient. It's this US nationalism which wants to declare Tombaugh
>> a "hero" - after all, he's the only US citizen which discovered a
>> planet -- at least until recently, when Pluto lost its planetary
>> status. Denying that Tombaugh is a "hero" isn't to "speak ill of the
>> dead" - but it is a disapproval of this US nationalism.
>
> I agree with you except for the part above. You are seeing "US
> nationalism" through your anti-American colored glasses. There are
> plenty of other perfectly good and valid reasons to wish Pluto remain a
> planet. It is disrespectful of you you to denigrate these other points
> of view by writing them off as nationalism.
>
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Date: 06 Sep 2006 08:46:11
From: Greg Crinklaw
Subject: Re: Pluto kooks make the ultimate appeal
|
Mr. Sylvestre wrote:
> IMHO, one doesn't need "anti-American colored glasses" to respectfully
> wonder whether a bit of nationalism might be an ingredient in the uproar.
>
> From the original post:
>
> "Clyde Tombaugh was an American hero," said Herb Beebe, a longtime
> colleague. "For that reason alone, Pluto's status as a full-fledged
> planet should be kept."
>
> If it quacks like a duck...
>
> As an amateur astronomer, I have no firm opinion on what Pluto's status
> should be and I'll happily leave the debate to the professionals, but
> I'd rather expect them to base their definition on science.
Clyde Tombaugh is a hero to many of the people who worked with him, met
him, and studied at the institutions where he worked. People admired
him. So would you expect any less? But that has absolutely nothing to
do with nationalism, and anyone who claims it does is either ignorant or
all too willing to see "American Imperialism" lurking in every shadow.
Greg
--
Greg Crinklaw
Astronomical Software Developer
Cloudcroft, New Mexico, USA (33N, 106W, 2700m)
SkyTools: http://www.skyhound.com/cs.html
Observing: http://www.skyhound.com/sh/skyhound.html
Comets: http://www.skyhound.com/sh/comets.html
To reply take out your eye
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Date: 06 Sep 2006 09:50:36
From: Brian Tung
Subject: Re: Pluto kooks make the ultimate appeal
|
Greg Crinklaw wrote:
> Clyde Tombaugh is a hero to many of the people who worked with him, met
> him, and studied at the institutions where he worked. People admired
> him. So would you expect any less? But that has absolutely nothing to
> do with nationalism, and anyone who claims it does is either ignorant or
> all too willing to see "American Imperialism" lurking in every shadow.
I don't think nationalism was a strong influence, but Beebe did call
Tombaugh an *American* hero [emphasis mine]. That does add a rather
distasteful nationalistic flavor to the mix, even if he didn't actually
intend it. Of course there's no reason at all to base it on his hero
status, whether he was an international hero or a national one.
--
Brian Tung <brian@isi.edu >
The Astronomy Corner at http://astro.isi.edu/
Unofficial C5+ Home Page at http://astro.isi.edu/c5plus/
The PleiadAtlas Home Page at http://astro.isi.edu/pleiadatlas/
My Own Personal FAQ (SAA) at http://astro.isi.edu/reference/faq.html
|
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Date: 06 Sep 2006 11:07:13
From: Greg Crinklaw
Subject: Re: Pluto kooks make the ultimate appeal
|
Brian Tung wrote:
> Greg Crinklaw wrote:
>> Clyde Tombaugh is a hero to many of the people who worked with him, met
>> him, and studied at the institutions where he worked. People admired
>> him. So would you expect any less? But that has absolutely nothing to
>> do with nationalism, and anyone who claims it does is either ignorant or
>> all too willing to see "American Imperialism" lurking in every shadow.
>
> I don't think nationalism was a strong influence, but Beebe did call
> Tombaugh an *American* hero [emphasis mine]. That does add a rather
> distasteful nationalistic flavor to the mix, even if he didn't actually
> intend it. Of course there's no reason at all to base it on his hero
> status, whether he was an international hero or a national one.
Agreed.
My original comment was with regard to the statement, "Now, when Pluto
officially has lost its planetary status, there's been an "uproar"
against this, which seems to have US nationalism as a major ingredient."
This statement is patently false. I doubt you could find a less
nationalistic group of people in *any* country than the local
astronomers. Nationalism is not a major ingredient of the "uproar."
Unfortunately, it seems anti-Americanism is the major ingredient in the
above statement, and to be honest that ticks me off.
Greg
--
Greg Crinklaw
Astronomical Software Developer
Cloudcroft, New Mexico, USA (33N, 106W, 2700m)
SkyTools: http://www.skyhound.com/cs.html
Observing: http://www.skyhound.com/sh/skyhound.html
Comets: http://www.skyhound.com/sh/comets.html
To reply take out your eye
|
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Date: 04 Sep 2006 09:55:38
From: Per Erik Jorde
Subject: Re: Pluto kooks make the ultimate appeal
|
pausch@saaf.se (Paul Schlyter) writes:
> Tombaugh is said to have been a humble person and would most likely
> not consider himself a hero. His work was in no way a danger for his
> life.
On his own account, he nearly froze to death in the dome one night
during the Pluto search.
> He found no other trans-neptunian object, and afterwards
> he felt certain that there was no unknown trans-neptunian object
> brighter than magnitude 16. Today, 70 years later, he's still right
> about that - all the Kuiper-belt objects which have been discovered
> was fainter than magnitude 20.
Not correct. There are _several_ TNO's brigher than mag 20: 2005 FY9
and 2003 EL61 (both around mag 17.5), 2003 UB313 (18.5), Orcus and
Hoya (19).
pej
--
Per Erik Jorde
|
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Date: 04 Sep 2006 17:13:24
From: Paul Schlyter
Subject: Re: Pluto kooks make the ultimate appeal
|
In article <m3k64kf4lh.fsf@pulsar.imr.no >,
Per Erik Jorde <perik@pulsar.imr.no > wrote:
> pausch@saaf.se (Paul Schlyter) writes:
>
>> Tombaugh is said to have been a humble person and would most likely
>> not consider himself a hero. His work was in no way a danger for his
>> life.
>
> On his own account, he nearly froze to death in the dome one night
> during the Pluto search.
Was he taken to a hospital for this, where he barely recovered? E.g.
when he janitor found him the next morning, unconscious, or something
like that?
People sometimes use animated language to emphasize something. Someone
who haven't eaten all day may claim he "almost starved to death". Sure,
he was probably very hungry, but it takes several weeks, not just one
single day, to actually starve to death.
Likewise, someone who was freezing a lot might claim he "almost froze
to death", withut actually doing so.
>> He found no other trans-neptunian object, and afterwards
>> he felt certain that there was no unknown trans-neptunian object
>> brighter than magnitude 16. Today, 70 years later, he's still right
>> about that - all the Kuiper-belt objects which have been discovered
>> was fainter than magnitude 20.
>
> Not correct. There are _several_ TNO's brigher than mag 20: 2005 FY9
> and 2003 EL61 (both around mag 17.5), 2003 UB313 (18.5), Orcus and
> Hoya (19).
OK -- that's still not brighter than Tombaughs mag 16 though.
> pej
> --
> Per Erik Jorde
--
----------------------------------------------------------------
Paul Schlyter, Grev Turegatan 40, SE-114 38 Stockholm, SWEDEN
e-mail: pausch at stockholm dot bostream dot se
WWW: http://stjarnhimlen.se/
|
| | | | | |
Date: 04 Sep 2006 22:02:03
From: Pierre Vandevennne
Subject: Re: Pluto kooks make the ultimate appeal
|
pausch@saaf.se (Paul Schlyter) wrote in news:edhlme$2e8q$1@merope.saaf.se:
> Likewise, someone who was freezing a lot might claim he "almost froze
> to death", withut actually doing so.
If he wasn't missing any pieces, such as ears, toes, fingers or maybe a
whole foot, he probably did not freeze :-) Non freezing hypothermia can
kill, but rarely healthy adults, unless they are submerged in a heat
conducting environment (water...).
|
| | | | | | |
Date: 04 Sep 2006 22:43:48
From: Paul Schlyter
Subject: Re: Pluto kooks make the ultimate appeal
|
In article <Xns983557943ACpierredatarescue@195.238.0.34 >,
Pierre Vandevennne <pierre@datarescue_ns.com > wrote:
>pausch@saaf.se (Paul Schlyter) wrote in news:edhlme$2e8q$1@merope.saaf.se:
>
>> Likewise, someone who was freezing a lot might claim he "almost froze
>> to death", withut actually doing so.
>
>If he wasn't missing any pieces, such as ears, toes, fingers or maybe a
>whole foot, he probably did not freeze :-)
At least not to death....
>Non freezing hypothermia can
>kill, but rarely healthy adults, unless they are submerged in a heat
>conducting environment (water...).
--
----------------------------------------------------------------
Paul Schlyter, Grev Turegatan 40, SE-114 38 Stockholm, SWEDEN
e-mail: pausch at stockholm dot bostream dot se
WWW: http://stjarnhimlen.se/
|
| |
Date: 02 Sep 2006 13:58:09
From: RMOLLISE
Subject: Re: Pluto kooks make the ultimate appeal
|
Rich wrote:
> RMOLLISE wrote:
> > Rich:
> >
> > IMHO Clyde Tombaugh was a _hero_ NOT a "hero." And not just because of
> > all those hours at the blink comparator. ;-)
>
> Why?
>
> >
> > Did you ever meet the man?
> >
Simply because if you had, it's possible you wouldn't be quite so ready
to speak ill of the dead.
Peace,
Rod Mollise
Author of:
Choosing and Using a Schmidt Cassegrain Telescope
and
The Urban Astronomer's Guide
<http://skywatch.brainiac.com/astroland >
The Annual SCT User Imaging Contest is Underway!
<http://www.rothritter.com/contest/2006/ >
|
| |
Date: 02 Sep 2006 13:08:56
From: canopus56
Subject: Re: Pluto kooks make the ultimate appeal
|
Chris L Peterson wrote:
> Maybe there is no science behind it- the whole decision really has
> nothing to do with science, after all. Maybe he's just taking the
> reasonable position that the IAU shouldn't create a definition for
> "planet" at all.
Agreed. I read that there was a dynamist camp and a planetary geology
camp. The dynamist model, that the IAU resolution appears to be based
on, is the one I personally find most useful as an amateur. But I
never read a clear explanation of the reasoning of the opposing
position for an alternative affirmative taxonomy.
- Canopus56
P.S. - Stern has made a few comments to the media impeaching the IAU
resolution, using IMHO a plainly erroneous interpretation of the
amibguity of "orbit clearing." But impeaching the opposing position is
different from presenting one's own affirmative definition.
|
| |
Date: 02 Sep 2006 12:13:31
From: canopus56
Subject: Re: Pluto kooks make the ultimate appeal
|
"Rich" <rander3127@gmail.com > wrote in message
news:1157209295.181580.294980@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
<snip >
Apparently Stern is filing a formal petition with the IAU.
Sullivan, A. 9/1/2006. Scientists challenge Pluto's demotion
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/space_pluto_dc
If anyone knows where there is an online copy, I'd like to read it to see
what the science is behind their proposal.
- Canopus56
|
| | |
Date: 02 Sep 2006 19:38:54
From: Chris L Peterson
Subject: Re: Pluto kooks make the ultimate appeal
|
On Sat, 2 Sep 2006 12:13:31 -0600, "canopus56"
<canopus56@NOyahooSPAM.com > wrote:
>If anyone knows where there is an online copy, I'd like to read it to see
>what the science is behind their proposal.
Maybe there is no science behind it- the whole decision really has
nothing to do with science, after all. Maybe he's just taking the
reasonable position that the IAU shouldn't create a definition for
"planet" at all.
_________________________________________________
Chris L Peterson
Cloudbait Observatory
http://www.cloudbait.com
|
| |
Date: 03 Sep 2006 03:27:54
From: Wally
Subject: Re: Pluto kooks make the ultimate appeal
|
Oh Bullshit, to a bullshitter.
Leading astronomers and planetary researchers are forming a petition to ask
IAU to retract not only Pluto status but the whole BOTCHED planetary
diatribe they foisted on the world, just hours ago.
You're a loser Rich and you will lose this one, when sanity returns.
Rich wrote:
> Because Tombaugh was a "hero" Pluto should remain a planet. Unreal.
>
> LAS CRUCES, New Mexico (AP) -- Size doesn't matter.
>
> That was the message as friends and colleagues of the late Clyde
> Tombaugh, the astronomer who discovered Pluto, gathered on the New
> Mexico State University campus to protest the International
> Astronomical Union's recent decision to strip Pluto of its status as a
> planet.
>
> About 50 students and staff members turned out Friday for the
> good-natured challenge. Some were wearing T-shirts and carrying signs
> that read "Protest for Pluto" and "Size Doesn't Matter."
>
> Tombaugh's widow, Patricia, and their son, Al Tombaugh, also
> participated.
>
> NMSU astronomer Bernie McNamara told the crowd that textbooks shouldn't
> be rewritten.
>
> "Why not? Because the debate is not over," McNamara said.
>
> The IAU determined last week that a planet must orbit the sun and be
> large enough to assume a nearly round shape as well as "clear the
> neighborhood around its orbit." Pluto's oblong orbit overlaps
> Neptune's, which led the IAU to downsize the solar system to eight
> planets from the traditional nine. (Full story)
>
> McNamara argued that only about 400 of the union's thousands of members
> were present when the August 24 vote was taken.
>
> "This was not a statement by the astronomical community at large," he
> said, adding that a petition opposing the IAU definition of a planet is
> circulating among the world's planetary scientists and astronomers.
>
> Tombaugh was 24 when he discovered Pluto while working at Lowell
> Observatory in Flagstaff, Arizona, in 1930. He came to NMSU in 1955 and
> founded the school's research astronomy department.
>
> His legacy is visible across the city, where an observatory, a campus
> street and an elementary school bear his name.
>
> Some say Tombaugh's discovery was significant because it took 60 years
> for stronger telescopes to locate another object with an unusual orbit
> like Pluto's, and 73 years before scientists discovered a bigger object
> in the area.
>
> "Clyde Tombaugh was an American hero," said Herb Beebe, a longtime
> colleague. "For that reason alone, Pluto's status as a full-fledged
> planet should be kept."
|
| |
Date: 02 Sep 2006 23:22:52
From: Rich
Subject: Re: Pluto kooks make the ultimate appeal
|
RMOLLISE wrote:
> Rich wrote:
> > You need to re-adjust your bearings. Saying someone isn't a hero who
> > never WAS a hero is not speaking ill of the dead. I'm sure Tombaugh
> > was a very thorough, competent worker and a decent fellow. But sifting
> > through loads of images with a blink comparator does not make someone a
> > "hero."
>
>
> I don't need to adjust my bearings whatsover. If you knew a blamed
> thing about Clyde Tombaugh, you'd know he didn't think of himself as a
> hero. You or anybody referring to him as such, or suggesting he thought
> himself one would have given one good laugh.
Exactly! Which is why the opinion of the Pluto boosters in the article
is worthless.
|
| |
Date: 02 Sep 2006 23:22:00
From: Rich
Subject: Re: Pluto kooks make the ultimate appeal
|
canopus56 wrote:
> "Rich" <rander3127@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1157209295.181580.294980@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> >
> <snip>
>
> Apparently Stern is filing a formal petition with the IAU.
>
Figures.
|
| |
Date: 03 Sep 2006 10:22:33
From: Rich
Subject: Re: Pluto kooks make the ultimate appeal
|
Wally wrote:
> Oh Bullshit, to a bullshitter.
>
> Leading astronomers and planetary researchers are forming a petition to ask
>
> IAU to retract not only Pluto status but the whole BOTCHED planetary
> diatribe they foisted on the world, just hours ago.
>
> You're a loser Rich and you will lose this one, when sanity returns.
>
All to redeem the status of an AMERICAN who screen photographic plates.
Why not
play a fife and drum at the next meeting?
F------- nostalgia nuts, OLD MEN who are NOT behaving as scientists.
|
| | |
Date: 04 Sep 2006 18:37:36
From: Thomas
Subject: Re: Pluto kooks make the ultimate appeal
|
Pluto doesn't even have a moon. Pluto and Charon orbit a common center of
mass
that lies beyond Pluto. Our moon and earth orbit a center of mass that is
located
within the earth. Ergo, Pluto and Charon are not directly linked
gravitationally....
|
| |
Date: 06 Sep 2006 12:07:12
From: Tom Polakis
Subject: Re: Pluto kooks make the ultimate appeal
|
Paul Schlyter wrote:
> A hero is someone who, voluntarily, risks his own life for some greater
> cause. One usual greater cause is to save the lives of other people...
Just to eliminate any natural pro-American bias, I looked up the word
"hero" in the very non-American Cambridge Dictionary. The third
definition is, simply, "someone who you admire greatly."
So Clyde Tombaugh did not need to dangle from a helicopter in a tornado
while he discovered Pluto to be considered a hero, American or
otherwise.
Using the Cambridge Dictionary definition, I would say that Peter
Forsberg and Mats Sundin are heroes, and not just Swedish heroes.
For the record, I think this is my silliest s.a.a. post of 2006, if not
the millenium. I probably need to take another break.
Tom
|
| | |
Date: 07 Sep 2006 00:36:01
From: Scoop
Subject: Re: Pluto kooks make the ultimate appeal
|
Quoth Tom Polakis:
: So Clyde Tombaugh did not need to dangle from a helicopter in a tornado
: while he discovered Pluto to be considered a hero, American or
: otherwise.
Although you must admit that would have been pretty cool.
.:.:.:.:.:.:.:. Neal Ross Attinson .:.:.:.:.:.:.:.
: Doing my best to complete the Nameless Mission :
.:.:.:.:.:.: 38.29x -122.46x 90mm Mak :.:.:.:.:.
|
| | | |
Date: 07 Sep 2006 07:42:44
From: Paul Schlyter
Subject: Re: Pluto kooks make the ultimate appeal
|
In article <44ff6971$0$34535$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net >,
Scoop <no-spam@sonic.net > wrote:
> Quoth Tom Polakis:
>> So Clyde Tombaugh did not need to dangle from a helicopter in a tornado
>> while he discovered Pluto to be considered a hero, American or
>> otherwise.
>
> Although you must admit that would have been pretty cool.
Perhaps for today's kids, but back in 1930 the norms were different. Also,
dangling from a helicopter in a tornado is an environment very unfarvourable
for discovering new planets on plates with a blink comparator.... the
plates would just blow away, and no planet would be discovered..... :-)
--
----------------------------------------------------------------
Paul Schlyter, Grev Turegatan 40, SE-114 38 Stockholm, SWEDEN
e-mail: pausch at stockholm dot bostream dot se
WWW: http://stjarnhimlen.se/
|
| | |
Date: 06 Sep 2006 21:14:26
From: Paul Schlyter
Subject: Re: Pluto kooks make the ultimate appeal
|
In article <1157569632.195798.254370@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com >,
Tom Polakis <polakisgroups@cox.net > wrote:
> Paul Schlyter wrote:
>
>> A hero is someone who, voluntarily, risks his own life for some greater
>> cause. One usual greater cause is to save the lives of other people...
>
>
> Just to eliminate any natural pro-American bias, I looked up the word
> "hero" in the very non-American Cambridge Dictionary. The third
> definition is, simply, "someone who you admire greatly."
>
> So Clyde Tombaugh did not need to dangle from a helicopter in a tornado
> while he discovered Pluto to be considered a hero, American or
> otherwise.
I looked up the corresponding Swedish word "hjalte" in our national
dictionary, which listed two meanings, one strong and one weak:
Strong meaning: someone who've sacrificed a lot to do something people admire.
Weak meaing: someone who people admire.
Perhaps the English "hero" corresponds to the weak meaning of
the Swedish "hjalte" ? Obviously, Tombaugh was a "hjalte" in the weak
meaning, since some people admire him.
> Using the Cambridge Dictionary definition, I would say that Peter
> Forsberg and Mats Sundin are heroes, and not just Swedish heroes.
I've never heard of these Swedes - what admireable act did they perform?
> For the record, I think this is my silliest s.a.a. post of 2006, if not
> the millenium. I probably need to take another break.
>
> Tom
--
----------------------------------------------------------------
Paul Schlyter, Grev Turegatan 40, SE-114 38 Stockholm, SWEDEN
e-mail: pausch at stockholm dot bostream dot se
WWW: http://stjarnhimlen.se/
|
| | | |
Date: 06 Sep 2006 16:19:21
From: Brian Tung
Subject: Re: Pluto kooks make the ultimate appeal
|
Paul Schlyter wrote:
> I looked up the corresponding Swedish word "hjalte" in our national
> dictionary, which listed two meanings, one strong and one weak:
>
> Strong meaning: someone who've sacrificed a lot to do something people admire.
>
> Weak meaing: someone who people admire.
>
> Perhaps the English "hero" corresponds to the weak meaning of
> the Swedish "hjalte" ? Obviously, Tombaugh was a "hjalte" in the weak
> meaning, since some people admire him.
English "hero" could take on either of the meanings you've listed. It
is not a well-defined term like, say, "planet." (Just kidding!)
I certainly admire Tombaugh, and I always enjoyed reading about him, but
I would not have called him a hero. To me, a hero is someone whom I
wish I could emulate (but likely could not).
> > Using the Cambridge Dictionary definition, I would say that Peter
> > Forsberg and Mats Sundin are heroes, and not just Swedish heroes.
>
> I've never heard of these Swedes - what admireable act did they perform?
They played hockey. :)
--
Brian Tung <brian@isi.edu >
The Astronomy Corner at http://astro.isi.edu/
Unofficial C5+ Home Page at http://astro.isi.edu/c5plus/
The PleiadAtlas Home Page at http://astro.isi.edu/pleiadatlas/
My Own Personal FAQ (SAA) at http://astro.isi.edu/reference/faq.html
|
| | | | |
Date: 07 Sep 2006 07:42:44
From: Paul Schlyter
Subject: Re: Pluto kooks make the ultimate appeal
|
In article <ednl1p$vp3$1@praesepe.isi.edu >, Brian Tung <brian@isi.edu> wrote:
> Paul Schlyter wrote:
>> I looked up the corresponding Swedish word "hjalte" in our national
>> dictionary, which listed two meanings, one strong and one weak:
>>
>> Strong meaning: someone who've sacrificed a lot to do something people admire.
>>
>> Weak meaing: someone who people admire.
>>
>> Perhaps the English "hero" corresponds to the weak meaning of
>> the Swedish "hjalte" ? Obviously, Tombaugh was a "hjalte" in the weak
>> meaning, since some people admire him.
>
> English "hero" could take on either of the meanings you've listed. It
> is not a well-defined term like, say, "planet." (Just kidding!)
>
> I certainly admire Tombaugh, and I always enjoyed reading about him, but
> I would not have called him a hero.
So you use the word "hero" in the strong sense then.
> To me, a hero is someone whom I wish I could emulate (but likely could not).
Does that mean you have no desire to discover a new planet?
>>> Using the Cambridge Dictionary definition, I would say that Peter
>>> Forsberg and Mats Sundin are heroes, and not just Swedish heroes.
>>
>> I've never heard of these Swedes - what admireable act did they perform?
>
> They played hockey. :)
OK, that explains why I never heard about them -- I'm completely uninterested
in hockey. And I don't understand how someone could become a "hero" just
by playing games....
--
----------------------------------------------------------------
Paul Schlyter, Grev Turegatan 40, SE-114 38 Stockholm, SWEDEN
e-mail: pausch at stockholm dot bostream dot se
WWW: http://stjarnhimlen.se/
|
| | | | | |
Date: 07 Sep 2006 08:50:43
From: Greg Crinklaw
Subject: Re: Pluto kooks make the ultimate appeal
|
Paul Schlyter wrote:
> OK, that explains why I never heard about them -- I'm completely uninterested
> in hockey. And I don't understand how someone could become a "hero" just
> by playing games....
Because being a hero isn't about what you do, it's how you do it.
--
Greg Crinklaw
Astronomical Software Developer
Cloudcroft, New Mexico, USA (33N, 106W, 2700m)
SkyTools: http://www.skyhound.com/cs.html
Observing: http://www.skyhound.com/sh/skyhound.html
Comets: http://www.skyhound.com/sh/comets.html
To reply take out your eye
|
| | | | | |
Date: 07 Sep 2006 10:29:33
From: Brian Tung
Subject: Re: Pluto kooks make the ultimate appeal
|
Paul Schlyter wrote:
> > To me, a hero is someone whom I wish I could emulate (but likely could not).
>
> Does that mean you have no desire to discover a new planet?
No. I'll leave it to you to figure out why that conclusion does not
follow.
> OK, that explains why I never heard about them -- I'm completely uninterested
> in hockey. And I don't understand how someone could become a "hero" just
> by playing games....
To some people, a hero is someone whom they wish they could emulate
(but likely could not). :)
--
Brian Tung <brian@isi.edu >
The Astronomy Corner at http://astro.isi.edu/
Unofficial C5+ Home Page at http://astro.isi.edu/c5plus/
The PleiadAtlas Home Page at http://astro.isi.edu/pleiadatlas/
My Own Personal FAQ (SAA) at http://astro.isi.edu/reference/faq.html
|
| | | | | | |
Date: 07 Sep 2006 20:16:28
From: Paul Schlyter
Subject: Re: Pluto kooks make the ultimate appeal
|
In article <edpktt$6ns$1@praesepe.isi.edu >, Brian Tung <brian@isi.edu> wrote:
>Paul Schlyter wrote:
> Paul Schlyter wrote:
>
>> OK, that explains why I never heard about them -- I'm completely uninterested
>> in hockey. And I don't understand how someone could become a "hero" just
>> by playing games....
>
> To some people, a hero is someone whom they wish they could emulate
> (but likely could not). :)
The majority of the hockey audience are probably not interested in
becoming hockey players thenselves though - they're very content to be
in the audience....
But I get your point - who is a "hero" is a very subjective judgement.
To neo-nazis, Hitler was a hero for instance....
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Btw, tonights lunar eclipse just ended. I was clouded out all the time except
the last 5 minutes of umbral eclipse. Sorry, but I was unable to estimate a
Danjon L number for this eclipse... :-)
--
----------------------------------------------------------------
Paul Schlyter, Grev Turegatan 40, SE-114 38 Stockholm, SWEDEN
e-mail: pausch at stockholm dot bostream dot se
WWW: http://stjarnhimlen.se/
|
| | | | | | | |
Date: 07 Sep 2006 20:23:55
From: Len Philpot
Subject: Re: Pluto kooks make the ultimate appeal
|
On Thu, 07 Sep 2006 20:16:28 GMT, Paul Schlyter wrote:
> The majority of the hockey audience are probably not interested in
> becoming hockey players thenselves though - they're very content to be
> in the audience....
>
> But I get your point - who is a "hero" is a very subjective judgement.
> To neo-nazis, Hitler was a hero for instance....
I wondered how long it would take before Godwin's Law came into play,
albeit gently ... :-)
--
---- Len Philpot -------- l e n @ p h i l p o t . o r g (no spaces)
------- ><> ------------- http://members.cox.net/lenphilpot/
|
| |
Date: 07 Sep 2006 07:26:07
From: Tom Polakis
Subject: Re: Pluto kooks make the ultimate appeal
|
Brian Tung wrote:
> > Using the Cambridge Dictionary definition, I would say that Peter
> > > Forsberg and Mats Sundin are heroes, and not just Swedish heroes.
> >
> > I've never heard of these Swedes - what admireable act did they perform?
>
> They played hockey. :)
They "played hockey" like Newton played with physics.
Peter Forsberg: 640 games, 235 goals, 581 assists
Mats Sundin: 1156 games, 496 goals, 671 assists
Tom
|
| | |
Date: 07 Sep 2006 15:17:59
From: Chris L Peterson
Subject: Re: Pluto kooks make the ultimate appeal
|
On 7 Sep 2006 07:26:07 -0700, "Tom Polakis" <polakisgroups@cox.net >
wrote:
>Peter Forsberg: 640 games, 235 goals, 581 assists
>Mats Sundin: 1156 games, 496 goals, 671 assists
Is that good?
_________________________________________________
Chris L Peterson
Cloudbait Observatory
http://www.cloudbait.com
|
| | | |
Date: 07 Sep 2006 10:37:12
From: Brian Tung
Subject: Re: Pluto kooks make the ultimate appeal
|
Chris L Peterson wrote:
> >Peter Forsberg: 640 games, 235 goals, 581 assists
> >Mats Sundin: 1156 games, 496 goals, 671 assists
>
> Is that good?
Very good. In hockey, a coarse measure of a player's offensive ability
is points, which is goals plus assists. (There can be zero, one, or two
assists on any goal.) Forsberg therefore had 1.275 ppg, and Sundin had
1.010 ppg. Forsberg's statistics would put him sixth all time, if he
were to stop now, and Sundin's would be good for about 30th all time--I
don't know if there's anyone else active whose ahead of him. Gretzky is
the all time leader at 1.921 ppg.
So very good indeed. But there's only room for one Newton.
--
Brian Tung <brian@isi.edu >
The Astronomy Corner at http://astro.isi.edu/
Unofficial C5+ Home Page at http://astro.isi.edu/c5plus/
The PleiadAtlas Home Page at http://astro.isi.edu/pleiadatlas/
My Own Personal FAQ (SAA) at http://astro.isi.edu/reference/faq.html
|
| |
Date: 07 Sep 2006 07:20:17
From: Tom Polakis
Subject: Re: Pluto kooks make the ultimate appeal
|
Brian Tung wrote:
> > Using the Cambridge Dictionary definition, I would say that Peter
> > > Forsberg and Mats Sundin are heroes, and not just Swedish heroes.
> >
> > I've never heard of these Swedes - what admireable act did they perform?
>
> They played hockey. :)
They "played hockey" like Newton played with physics.
Peter Forsberg: 640 games, 235 goals, 581 assists
Mats Sundin: 1156 games, 496 goals, 671 assists
Tom
|
| | |
Date: 07 Sep 2006 10:30:43
From: Brian Tung
Subject: Re: Pluto kooks make the ultimate appeal
|
Tom Polakis wrote:
> They "played hockey" like Newton played with physics.
>
> Peter Forsberg: 640 games, 235 goals, 581 assists
> Mats Sundin: 1156 games, 496 goals, 671 assists
Yeah, they were great, but come on, they were not Newtons of hockey.
The very fact that there are two of them gives the lie to that.
--
Brian Tung <brian@isi.edu >
The Astronomy Corner at http://astro.isi.edu/
Unofficial C5+ Home Page at http://astro.isi.edu/c5plus/
The PleiadAtlas Home Page at http://astro.isi.edu/pleiadatlas/
My Own Personal FAQ (SAA) at http://astro.isi.edu/reference/faq.html
|
| |
Date: 07 Sep 2006 12:24:14
From: Tom Polakis
Subject: Re: Pluto kooks make the ultimate appeal
|
Brian Tung wrote:
> assists on any goal.) Forsberg therefore had 1.275 ppg, and Sundin had
> 1.010 ppg. Forsberg's statistics would put him sixth all time, if he
> were to stop now, and Sundin's would be good for about 30th all time--I
> don't know if there's anyone else active whose ahead of him.
Only Jaromir Jagr, with 1.291 ppg.
Tom
|
| |
Date: 08 Sep 2006 07:46:47
From: Tom Polakis
Subject: Re: Pluto kooks make the ultimate appeal
|
Len Philpot wrote:
> On Thu, 07 Sep 2006 20:16:28 GMT, Paul Schlyter wrote:
>
> > The majority of the hockey audience are probably not interested in
> > becoming hockey players thenselves though - they're very content to be
> > in the audience....
> >
> > But I get your point - who is a "hero" is a very subjective judgement.
> > To neo-nazis, Hitler was a hero for instance....
>
> I wondered how long it would take before Godwin's Law came into play,
> albeit gently ... :-)
Wow, I didn't know there was a law for the inevitable Hitler
comparisons! Having looked that one up, I wonder if I contributed to
the Wilcox-McCandlish law applying to this thread. We've covered some
ground:
Pluto discoverer as a hero == > definition of hero ==> hockey player as
hero == > Hitler as a hero ==> laws describing Internet discussion list
behavior
Tom
|
| | |
Date: 08 Sep 2006 12:31:37
From: Greg Crinklaw
Subject: Re: Pluto kooks make the ultimate appeal
|
Tom Polakis wrote:
> Wow, I didn't know there was a law for the inevitable Hitler
> comparisons! Having looked that one up, I wonder if I contributed to
> the Wilcox-McCandlish law applying to this thread. We've covered some
> ground:
>
> Pluto discoverer as a hero ==> definition of hero ==> hockey player as
> hero ==> Hitler as a hero ==> laws describing Internet discussion list
> behavior
Within the confines of this thread: Tom, you are my hero! :-)
--
Greg Crinklaw
Astronomical Software Developer
Cloudcroft, New Mexico, USA (33N, 106W, 2700m)
SkyTools: http://www.skyhound.com/cs.html
Observing: http://www.skyhound.com/sh/skyhound.html
Comets: http://www.skyhound.com/sh/comets.html
To reply take out your eye
|
| | |
Date: 08 Sep 2006 18:14:04
From: Paul Schlyter
Subject: Re: Pluto kooks make the ultimate appeal
|
In article <1157726807.393875.156760@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com >,
Tom Polakis <polakisgroups@cox.net > wrote:
> Len Philpot wrote:
>> On Thu, 07 Sep 2006 20:16:28 GMT, Paul Schlyter wrote:
>>
>>> The majority of the hockey audience are probably not interested in
>>> becoming hockey players thenselves though - they're very content to be
>>> in the audience....
>>>
>>> But I get your point - who is a "hero" is a very subjective judgement.
>>> To neo-nazis, Hitler was a hero for instance....
>>
>> I wondered how long it would take before Godwin's Law came into play,
>> albeit gently ... :-)
>
>
> Wow, I didn't know there was a law for the inevitable Hitler
> comparisons! Having looked that one up, I wonder if I contributed to
> the Wilcox-McCandlish law applying to this thread. We've covered some
> ground:
>
> Pluto discoverer as a hero ==> definition of hero ==> hockey player as
> hero ==> Hitler as a hero ==> laws describing Internet discussion list
> behavior
>
> Tom
Just like beauty, hero status is in the eyes of the beholder. My heroes
are probably not your heroes, and vice versa....
--
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Paul Schlyter, Grev Turegatan 40, SE-114 38 Stockholm, SWEDEN
e-mail: pausch at stockholm dot bostream dot se
WWW: http://stjarnhimlen.se/
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Date: 08 Sep 2006 18:14:04
From: Paul Schlyter
Subject: Re: Pluto kooks make the ultimate appeal
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In article <1157726807.393875.156760@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com >,
Tom Polakis <polakisgroups@cox.net > wrote:
> Wayne L wrote:
>
>> I also submit that the closest know planets to Pollux are Neptune or Pluto,
>
> Correct because:
No, it's incorrect!
Currently the Earth is closer to Pollux than either of Neptune or Pluto. In
a century the situation will be different, but right now that's how it is.
--
----------------------------------------------------------------
Paul Schlyter, Grev Turegatan 40, SE-114 38 Stockholm, SWEDEN
e-mail: pausch at stockholm dot bostream dot se
WWW: http://stjarnhimlen.se/
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Date: 09 Sep 2006 05:09:45
From: Dave Mitsky
Subject: Re: Pluto kooks make the ultimate appeal
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Brian Tung wrote:
Edit
> So very good indeed. But there's only room for one Newton.
>
> --
> Brian Tung <brian@isi.edu>
And that's under the apple tree? ;-)
Dave Mitsky
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Date: 16 Sep 2006 15:33:26
From:
Subject: Nio man ec heima
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Rich wrote:
> Because Tombaugh was a "hero" Pluto should remain a planet. Unreal.
> LAS CRUCES, New Mexico (AP) -- Size doesn't matter.
> That was the message as friends and colleagues of the late Clyde
> Tombaugh, the astronomer who discovered Pluto, gathered on the New
> Mexico State University campus to protest the International
> Astronomical Union's recent decision to strip Pluto of its status as a
> planet.
I can think of an even *sillier* reason to protest against stripping
Pluto of planetary status!
An educational CD-ROM about the solar system, featuring narration by
noted Shakespearian actor Patrick Stewart (doubtless hired for that due
to his notoriety as television's "Captain Picard", of course) was
titled... Nine Worlds.
That, _in itself_, wouldn't be much of a reason to oppose changing the
solar system around.
But the reason it obtained that particular title, however, might carry
*some* weight. That particular title happened to be evocative...
because it hearkens back to a great literary work. As the title of my
post indicates.
You wouldn't want the Solar System to get out of harmony with the
Voluspa, would you? After all, if the Aesir, the Vanir, the dark elves,
the Frost Giants, and so on, all had to play musical chairs, we humans
of Midgard might be the losers!
John Savard
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