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Main
Date: 29 Aug 2006 19:22:14
From: George Hein
Subject: NYC Planetarium
|
Disappointed.
I have been an amateur astronomer for some 58 years. In the past I went
to the old Hayden Planetarium numerous times, the Junior Astronomy Club
offices were next door in the Museum, connected. A dozen or more of us
used to meet there almost every Saturday and often use Central Park as a
playground across the street and then go to north Bronx or Brooklyn to
observe the stars (subways then cost 5, then 10, then 20 cents).
I and others were not satisfied with the destruction and new building.
Although I generally visit the museum yearly I held off going to the
planetarium but finally I went.
No pointers for N-E-S-W, nor did usher know.
No presentation of major constellations.
Show on Cosmic Collisions was OK but too short, total length about 35
minutes.
Very expensive: $18.50 for "seniors" (includes required museum admission).
I have corporate membership to museum, so entry is free for me as it was
many years ago - although at some time I was a regular member as well.
Museum entry includes planetarium area except for sky show.
This is an educational institution, how can they expect kids to go at
these prices. I see buses of kids flowing to the museum, often too busy
for me to put up with it; these trips are no doubt subsidized by NYC
Bd.Ed., but what about kids going on their own? I never went with
school and suspect many kids, especially parochial school kids who do
not share in such subsidies.
Instead of building egos the powers that be should just renovate only
when needed and keep prices low. The old building was a work of art.
Reminds me of two Catholic churches I attend: one western, another
eastern. Each is begging for money for building which I never deemed
necessary and would, if asked, never approve. I suspect one will fold
in a few years. The Muse rum and Planetarium won't fold, but will it be
helpful for budding scientists. Several of my friends at that time
became very well known astronomers, and other scientific professionals.
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|
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Date: 30 Aug 2006 04:42:23
From: RMOLLISE
Subject: Re: NYC Planetarium
|
Hi George:
Believe me, I share your disappointment concerning modern planetarium
shows. However...most of these institutions have got to be able to get
people in the seats in order to survive. And they found that presenting
"traditional constellation shows" was not doing it. Hasn't been doing
it for a long time.
That's why, as far back as the 70s, planetariums started supplementing
their incomes with laser light shows to the accompaniment of popular
albums (like Dark Side of the Moon). The public has shown they are not
about to attend the sort of shows we remember so fondly. Even teachers
and children are not ready to buy into that: "What good is teaching 'em
all those constellations they can't see with a shopping mall next
door?" Not true, not completely, but that is the perception.
If planetariums are to survive, they are going to have to do what this
one has done. I do hope that at least a few will continue to present
the constellations once in a while, at least, but I will understand if
they are reluctant to do so.
Peace,
Rod Mollise
Author of _Choosing and Using a Schmidt Cassegrain Telescope_
and
_The Urban Astronomer's Guide_
<http://skywatch.brainiac.com/astroland/index.htm >
Like SCTs and MCTs?
Check-out sct-user, the mailing list for CAT fanciers:
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sct-user >
George Hein wrote:
> Disappointed.
>
> I have been an amateur astronomer for some 58 years. In the past I went
> to the old Hayden Planetarium numerous times, the Junior Astronomy Club
> offices were next door in the Museum, connected. A dozen or more of us
> used to meet there almost every Saturday and often use Central Park as a
> playground across the street and then go to north Bronx or Brooklyn to
> observe the stars (subways then cost 5, then 10, then 20 cents).
>
> I and others were not satisfied with the destruction and new building.
> Although I generally visit the museum yearly I held off going to the
> planetarium but finally I went.
>
> No pointers for N-E-S-W, nor did usher know.
> No presentation of major constellations.
> Show on Cosmic Collisions was OK but too short, total length about 35
> minutes.
> Very expensive: $18.50 for "seniors" (includes required museum admission).
>
> I have corporate membership to museum, so entry is free for me as it was
> many years ago - although at some time I was a regular member as well.
> Museum entry includes planetarium area except for sky show.
>
> This is an educational institution, how can they expect kids to go at
> these prices. I see buses of kids flowing to the museum, often too busy
> for me to put up with it; these trips are no doubt subsidized by NYC
> Bd.Ed., but what about kids going on their own? I never went with
> school and suspect many kids, especially parochial school kids who do
> not share in such subsidies.
>
> Instead of building egos the powers that be should just renovate only
> when needed and keep prices low. The old building was a work of art.
>
> Reminds me of two Catholic churches I attend: one western, another
> eastern. Each is begging for money for building which I never deemed
> necessary and would, if asked, never approve. I suspect one will fold
> in a few years. The Muse rum and Planetarium won't fold, but will it be
> helpful for budding scientists. Several of my friends at that time
> became very well known astronomers, and other scientific professionals.
|
| | |
Date: 30 Aug 2006 11:19:35
From: Dennis Woos
Subject: Re: NYC Planetarium
|
I think that amateur astronomers with green laser pointers are fulfilling
the role of teaching the night sky and astronomy. Just the other week, my
son and a friend of his and I did a presentation at a family summer camp.
My son and friend did the indoor slide show and black hole demo while I set
up a couple of scopes. After the indoor show, everybody came out and we
observed till midnight. While packing up, I noticed a young woman writing
away like mad in a notebook. She said that she was from NYC and had to
write everything down that she had learned, and that she had had no idea how
amazing astronomy was. This is the kind of thing that keeps us doing these
events - better than a planetarium show!
Dennis
"RMOLLISE" <rmollise@hotmail.com > wrote in message
news:1156938143.339878.142720@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com...
> Hi George:
>
> Believe me, I share your disappointment concerning modern planetarium
> shows. However...most of these institutions have got to be able to get
> people in the seats in order to survive. And they found that presenting
> "traditional constellation shows" was not doing it. Hasn't been doing
> it for a long time.
>
> That's why, as far back as the 70s, planetariums started supplementing
> their incomes with laser light shows to the accompaniment of popular
> albums (like Dark Side of the Moon). The public has shown they are not
> about to attend the sort of shows we remember so fondly. Even teachers
> and children are not ready to buy into that: "What good is teaching 'em
> all those constellations they can't see with a shopping mall next
> door?" Not true, not completely, but that is the perception.
>
> If planetariums are to survive, they are going to have to do what this
> one has done. I do hope that at least a few will continue to present
> the constellations once in a while, at least, but I will understand if
> they are reluctant to do so.
>
> Peace,
> Rod Mollise
> Author of _Choosing and Using a Schmidt Cassegrain Telescope_
> and
> _The Urban Astronomer's Guide_
> <http://skywatch.brainiac.com/astroland/index.htm>
> Like SCTs and MCTs?
> Check-out sct-user, the mailing list for CAT fanciers:
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sct-user>
>
>
>
> George Hein wrote:
>> Disappointed.
>>
>> I have been an amateur astronomer for some 58 years. In the past I went
>> to the old Hayden Planetarium numerous times, the Junior Astronomy Club
>> offices were next door in the Museum, connected. A dozen or more of us
>> used to meet there almost every Saturday and often use Central Park as a
>> playground across the street and then go to north Bronx or Brooklyn to
>> observe the stars (subways then cost 5, then 10, then 20 cents).
>>
>> I and others were not satisfied with the destruction and new building.
>> Although I generally visit the museum yearly I held off going to the
>> planetarium but finally I went.
>>
>> No pointers for N-E-S-W, nor did usher know.
>> No presentation of major constellations.
>> Show on Cosmic Collisions was OK but too short, total length about 35
>> minutes.
>> Very expensive: $18.50 for "seniors" (includes required museum
>> admission).
>>
>> I have corporate membership to museum, so entry is free for me as it was
>> many years ago - although at some time I was a regular member as well.
>> Museum entry includes planetarium area except for sky show.
>>
>> This is an educational institution, how can they expect kids to go at
>> these prices. I see buses of kids flowing to the museum, often too busy
>> for me to put up with it; these trips are no doubt subsidized by NYC
>> Bd.Ed., but what about kids going on their own? I never went with
>> school and suspect many kids, especially parochial school kids who do
>> not share in such subsidies.
>>
>> Instead of building egos the powers that be should just renovate only
>> when needed and keep prices low. The old building was a work of art.
>>
>> Reminds me of two Catholic churches I attend: one western, another
>> eastern. Each is begging for money for building which I never deemed
>> necessary and would, if asked, never approve. I suspect one will fold
>> in a few years. The Muse rum and Planetarium won't fold, but will it be
>> helpful for budding scientists. Several of my friends at that time
>> became very well known astronomers, and other scientific professionals.
>
|
| | |
Date: 30 Aug 2006 15:03:32
From: David Nakamoto
Subject: Re: NYC Planetarium
|
And yet I've heard that the Hayden planetarium is finding that their
live show (meaning there's a warm, breathing human being there that does
the talking portion of the show and to answer questions later) is doing
better than their canned show (where not a live presenters is to be
seen). So perhaps yes, the tradition constellation show is not the most
popular thing, but a show where a live human being is there to answer
questions and talk to the audience seems to be popular.
--- Dave
RMOLLISE wrote:
> Hi George:
>
> Believe me, I share your disappointment concerning modern planetarium
> shows. However...most of these institutions have got to be able to get
> people in the seats in order to survive. And they found that presenting
> "traditional constellation shows" was not doing it. Hasn't been doing
> it for a long time.
>
> That's why, as far back as the 70s, planetariums started supplementing
> their incomes with laser light shows to the accompaniment of popular
> albums (like Dark Side of the Moon). The public has shown they are not
> about to attend the sort of shows we remember so fondly. Even teachers
> and children are not ready to buy into that: "What good is teaching 'em
> all those constellations they can't see with a shopping mall next
> door?" Not true, not completely, but that is the perception.
>
> If planetariums are to survive, they are going to have to do what this
> one has done. I do hope that at least a few will continue to present
> the constellations once in a while, at least, but I will understand if
> they are reluctant to do so.
>
> Peace,
> Rod Mollise
> Author of _Choosing and Using a Schmidt Cassegrain Telescope_
> and
> _The Urban Astronomer's Guide_
> <http://skywatch.brainiac.com/astroland/index.htm>
> Like SCTs and MCTs?
> Check-out sct-user, the mailing list for CAT fanciers:
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sct-user>
>
>
>
> George Hein wrote:
>> Disappointed.
>>
>> I have been an amateur astronomer for some 58 years. In the past I went
>> to the old Hayden Planetarium numerous times, the Junior Astronomy Club
>> offices were next door in the Museum, connected. A dozen or more of us
>> used to meet there almost every Saturday and often use Central Park as a
>> playground across the street and then go to north Bronx or Brooklyn to
>> observe the stars (subways then cost 5, then 10, then 20 cents).
>>
>> I and others were not satisfied with the destruction and new building.
>> Although I generally visit the museum yearly I held off going to the
>> planetarium but finally I went.
>>
>> No pointers for N-E-S-W, nor did usher know.
>> No presentation of major constellations.
>> Show on Cosmic Collisions was OK but too short, total length about 35
>> minutes.
>> Very expensive: $18.50 for "seniors" (includes required museum admission).
>>
>> I have corporate membership to museum, so entry is free for me as it was
>> many years ago - although at some time I was a regular member as well.
>> Museum entry includes planetarium area except for sky show.
>>
>> This is an educational institution, how can they expect kids to go at
>> these prices. I see buses of kids flowing to the museum, often too busy
>> for me to put up with it; these trips are no doubt subsidized by NYC
>> Bd.Ed., but what about kids going on their own? I never went with
>> school and suspect many kids, especially parochial school kids who do
>> not share in such subsidies.
>>
>> Instead of building egos the powers that be should just renovate only
>> when needed and keep prices low. The old building was a work of art.
>>
>> Reminds me of two Catholic churches I attend: one western, another
>> eastern. Each is begging for money for building which I never deemed
>> necessary and would, if asked, never approve. I suspect one will fold
>> in a few years. The Muse rum and Planetarium won't fold, but will it be
>> helpful for budding scientists. Several of my friends at that time
>> became very well known astronomers, and other scientific professionals.
>
|
| |
Date: 31 Aug 2006 04:52:28
From: Dave Mitsky
Subject: Re: NYC Planetarium
|
Dennis Woos wrote:
> I think that amateur astronomers with green laser pointers are fulfilling
> the role of teaching the night sky and astronomy. Just the other week, my
> son and a friend of his and I did a presentation at a family summer camp.
> My son and friend did the indoor slide show and black hole demo while I set
> up a couple of scopes. After the indoor show, everybody came out and we
> observed till midnight. While packing up, I noticed a young woman writing
> away like mad in a notebook. She said that she was from NYC and had to
> write everything down that she had learned, and that she had had no idea how
> amazing astronomy was. This is the kind of thing that keeps us doing these
> events - better than a planetarium show!
>
> Dennis
Dennis,
Amateur astronomers have been teaching folks the night sky for a long
time without the use of green laser pointers. I have seen too many
cases of misuse (and have had some close calls personally with GLPs in
the hands of irresponsible amateurs) to condone the use of GLPs.
Dave MItsky
|
| | |
Date: 31 Aug 2006 08:10:35
From: Marty
Subject: Re: NYC Planetarium
|
Some of my best childhood memories involve going to the planetarium at
the University of Nebraska. When my kids were young, although I live in
Iowa now, I took my daughter and son to the U of N planetarium to give
them a taste of the thrill I experienced. This was about 17 years ago,
and I learned then that "pointer shows" no longer existed. We watched a
Magic School Bus slide show on the side of the dome, and saw a very
impressive video of flying over the surface of Mars, but I left
disappointed. The only time the star projector was turned on was for a
"special effect" where the stars spun around when the magic school bus
was spinning for some reason. Talking with my 6 year old son later, he
told me that his favorite part of the show was when the ceiling was
covered with stars.
I know that planetaria have to make money, and I know that they
have to cater to what the public will pay for. But somehow, something
wonderful has been lost.
Marty
|
| | | |
Date: 31 Aug 2006 14:43:45
From: Paul Schlyter
Subject: Re: NYC Planetarium
|
In article <15398-44F6DFCB-215@storefull-3331.bay.webtv.net >,
Marty <movac5@webtv.net > wrote:
>Some of my best childhood memories involve going to the planetarium at
>the University of Nebraska. When my kids were young, although I live in
>Iowa now, I took my daughter and son to the U of N planetarium to give
>them a taste of the thrill I experienced. This was about 17 years ago,
>and I learned then that "pointer shows" no longer existed. We watched a
>Magic School Bus slide show on the side of the dome, and saw a very
>impressive video of flying over the surface of Mars, but I left
>disappointed. The only time the star projector was turned on was for a
>"special effect" where the stars spun around when the magic school bus
>was spinning for some reason. Talking with my 6 year old son later, he
>told me that his favorite part of the show was when the ceiling was
>covered with stars.
> I know that planetaria have to make money, and I know that they
>have to cater to what the public will pay for. But somehow, something
>wonderful has been lost.
> Marty
>
I fully agree with that....
Perhaps the younger generation, many of whom have never seen a truly
dark sky, therefore see no value in a splendid sky simulation? They're
used to tv screen quality and are content with that, perhaps?
--
----------------------------------------------------------------
Paul Schlyter, Grev Turegatan 40, SE-114 38 Stockholm, SWEDEN
e-mail: pausch at stockholm dot bostream dot se
WWW: http://stjarnhimlen.se/
|
| | | | |
Date: 31 Aug 2006 19:34:42
From: Marty
Subject: Re: NYC Planetarium
|
Paul Schlyter was saying
>Perhaps the younger generation, many
> of whom have never seen a truly dark
> sky, therefore see no value in a splendid
> sky simulation? They're used to tv
> screen quality and are content with that,
> perhaps?
Maybe. I have to admit I'm at a loss why so few people can appreciate a
planetarium any more. When was a kid, I'd use to go outside after I'd
been to the planetarium and try to find the things that were pointed
out. Sometimes, things like this are blamed on some "dumbing down"
process, but enjoying the night sky doesn't have to be any kind of an
intellectual pursuit. (Although knowing what you're seeing adds to the
enjoyment.) Sometimes I figure people of my generation grew up with the
dawn of the space age, and appreciated a planetarium show on account of
that. But that doesn't explain the interest in planetaria back in the
1930's. Possibly the fact that most kids never see a dark night sky now
days is part of the problem. Still, I grew up in Lincoln, Nebraska, and
while the sky wasn't as bad in the 50's and early 60's as it is now, it
was nothing pristine. I can remember though, just being blown away by
the beauty of that starry planetarium dome, and I was looking at a
fairly primitive planetarium sky. I guess I just can't understand it.
Marty
|
| | | | | |
Date: 01 Sep 2006 07:12:56
From: Paul Schlyter
Subject: Re: NYC Planetarium
|
In article <29881-44F78022-299@storefull-3334.bay.webtv.net >,
Marty <movac5@webtv.net > wrote:
> Paul Schlyter was saying
>> Perhaps the younger generation, many of whom have never seen a truly dark
>> sky, therefore see no value in a splendid sky simulation? They're used to tv
>> screen quality and are content with that, perhaps?
>
> Maybe. I have to admit I'm at a loss why so few people can appreciate a
> planetarium any more. When was a kid, I'd use to go outside after I'd
> been to the planetarium and try to find the things that were pointed
> out. Sometimes, things like this are blamed on some "dumbing down"
> process, but enjoying the night sky doesn't have to be any kind of an
> intellectual pursuit. (Although knowing what you're seeing adds to the
> enjoyment.) Sometimes I figure people of my generation grew up with the
> dawn of the space age, and appreciated a planetarium show on account of
> that. But that doesn't explain the interest in planetaria back in the
> 1930's. Possibly the fact that most kids never see a dark night sky now
> days is part of the problem. Still, I grew up in Lincoln, Nebraska, and
> while the sky wasn't as bad in the 50's and early 60's as it is now, it
> was nothing pristine. I can remember though, just being blown away by
> the beauty of that starry planetarium dome, and I was looking at a
> fairly primitive planetarium sky. I guess I just can't understand it.
> Marty
I think laziness and superficiality also plays a role here: to get out
under a dark sky usually requires some effort. And all our neon lights
and computer or video screens do indeed shine brighter than even Jupiter
or Venus.....
--
----------------------------------------------------------------
Paul Schlyter, Grev Turegatan 40, SE-114 38 Stockholm, SWEDEN
e-mail: pausch at stockholm dot bostream dot se
WWW: http://stjarnhimlen.se/
|
| | | | | | |
Date: 01 Sep 2006 19:20:26
From: Marty
Subject: Re: NYC Planetarium
|
Paul Schlyter was saying
>I think laziness and superficiality also
> plays a role here: to get out under a
> dark sky usually requires some effort.
> And all our neon lights and computer or
> video screens do indeed shine brighter
> than even Jupiter or Venus.....
That could very well play a part in it. A lot of things once considered
"hobbies" seem to be done mainly by older, greyer, people. On the other
hand, I wouldn't want to be a kid today, either. Most everything is
either organized, regulated, or illegal anymore.
Marty
|
| | | | | | | |
Date: 02 Sep 2006 13:43:00
From: Paul Schlyter
Subject: Re: NYC Planetarium
|
In article <5545-44F8CE4A-123@storefull-3337.bay.webtv.net >,
Marty <movac5@webtv.net > wrote:
> Paul Schlyter was saying
>>I think laziness and superficiality also plays a role here: to get out under a
> > dark sky usually requires some effort. And all our neon lights and computer or
>> video screens do indeed shine brighter than even Jupiter or Venus.....
>
> That could very well play a part in it. A lot of things once considered
> "hobbies" seem to be done mainly by older, greyer, people. On the other
> hand, I wouldn't want to be a kid today, either. Most everything is
> either organized, regulated, or illegal anymore.
> Marty
Otoh today's kids would rarely want to belong to an older generation
either. Perhaps we all get used to the way things were when we grew
up, and then feel lost when things change?
--
----------------------------------------------------------------
Paul Schlyter, Grev Turegatan 40, SE-114 38 Stockholm, SWEDEN
e-mail: pausch at stockholm dot bostream dot se
WWW: http://stjarnhimlen.se/
|
| | | | | | | | |
Date: 02 Sep 2006 22:53:56
From: Marty
Subject: Re: NYC Planetarium
|
>Otoh today's kids would rarely want to
> belong to an older generation either.
> Perhaps we all get used to the way
> things were when we grew up, and then
> feel lost when things change?
Well, aside from a few things like advances in medicine, (it had to be
rough watching your kids die one at a time from infectious diseases,) I
could trade places with my parents or my grandparents. But I wouldn't
like being a kid now. Hmmm... us old guys can ramble off topic...
Marty
|
| |
Date: 31 Aug 2006 04:51:34
From: Dave Mitsky
Subject: Re: NYC Planetarium
|
Dennis Woos wrote:
> I think that amateur astronomers with green laser pointers are fulfilling
> the role of teaching the night sky and astronomy. Just the other week, my
> son and a friend of his and I did a presentation at a family summer camp.
> My son and friend did the indoor slide show and black hole demo while I set
> up a couple of scopes. After the indoor show, everybody came out and we
> observed till midnight. While packing up, I noticed a young woman writing
> away like mad in a notebook. She said that she was from NYC and had to
> write everything down that she had learned, and that she had had no idea how
> amazing astronomy was. This is the kind of thing that keeps us doing these
> events - better than a planetarium show!
>
> Dennis
Dennis,
Amateur astronomers have been teaching folks the night sky for a long
time without the use of green laser pointers. I have seen too many
cases of misuse (and have had some close calls personally with GLPs in
the hands of irresponsible amateurs) to condone the use of GLPs.
Dave MItsky
|
| |
Date: 31 Aug 2006 04:50:00
From: Dave Mitsky
Subject: Re: NYC Planetarium
|
Dennis Woos wrote:
> I think that amateur astronomers with green laser pointers are fulfilling
> the role of teaching the night sky and astronomy. Just the other week, my
> son and a friend of his and I did a presentation at a family summer camp.
> My son and friend did the indoor slide show and black hole demo while I set
> up a couple of scopes. After the indoor show, everybody came out and we
> observed till midnight. While packing up, I noticed a young woman writing
> away like mad in a notebook. She said that she was from NYC and had to
> write everything down that she had learned, and that she had had no idea how
> amazing astronomy was. This is the kind of thing that keeps us doing these
> events - better than a planetarium show!
>
> Dennis
Dennis,
Amateur astronomers have been teaching folks the night sky for a long
time without the use of green laser pointers. I have seen too many
cases of misuse (and have had some close calls personally with GLPs in
the hands of irresponsible amateurs) to condone the use of GLPs.
Dave MItsky
|
| |
Date: 31 Aug 2006 04:46:48
From: Dave Mitsky
Subject: Re: NYC Planetarium
|
David Nakamoto wrote:
> And yet I've heard that the Hayden planetarium is finding that their
> live show (meaning there's a warm, breathing human being there that does
> the talking portion of the show and to answer questions later) is doing
> better than their canned show (where not a live presenters is to be
> seen). So perhaps yes, the tradition constellation show is not the most
> popular thing, but a show where a live human being is there to answer
> questions and talk to the audience seems to be popular.
>
> --- Dave
Dave,
I've seen two of the digital video shows at the new Hayden Planetarium.
While they were visually impressive, they didn't hold a candle to the
splendor of the starry sky created by the $4 million Zeiss Mk IX Star
Projector. What a pity it is that the projector is used for only 3 or
4 minutes in each show.
Dave Mitsky
|
| |
Date: 31 Aug 2006 04:41:24
From: Dave Mitsky
Subject: Re: NYC Planetarium
|
Dennis Woos wrote:
> I think that amateur astronomers with green laser pointers are fulfilling
> the role of teaching the night sky and astronomy. Just the other week, my
> son and a friend of his and I did a presentation at a family summer camp.
> My son and friend did the indoor slide show and black hole demo while I set
> up a couple of scopes. After the indoor show, everybody came out and we
> observed till midnight. While packing up, I noticed a young woman writing
> away like mad in a notebook. She said that she was from NYC and had to
> write everything down that she had learned, and that she had had no idea how
> amazing astronomy was. This is the kind of thing that keeps us doing these
> events - better than a planetarium show!
>
> Dennis
Dennis,
Amateur astronomers have been teaching folks the night sky for a long
time without the use of green laser pointers. I have seen too many
cases of misuse and have had some close calls personally with
irresponsible amateurs to condone the use of GLPs.
Dave MItsky
|
|
