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Date: 22 Sep 2006 13:03:58
From: Lauren the Ravishing
Subject: My First Outing with a Telescope
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I took the scope (Celestron 127mm, EQ mount) up to the roof last night and didn't find any of what I was looking for. My first target was M31. If I did manage to stumble upon M31, I certainly didn't know it. Everything in the scope was so dark that if I panned across it, it was too dark to notice. I gave up on the other objects, Albiero and another galaxy (M15 maybe?) since I was even less prepared for them. Maybe it was a bad first target. See my other post about what I DID see. I now know the value of preparing this stuff ahead of time. I made some marks on my star wheel assuming that it would be enough. I had trouble associating what I saw on the wheel with what was in the sky. I wasn't even sure exactly which way was North. I figured I'd easily recognize Polaris, but didn't. Once up on the roof I found that the finderscope alignment I made in my living room was totally off. Ten minutes of rooftop adjustments helped a lot. I think my next task is to understand the scale of things; how my atlas grids represent what portion of the sky and how many degrees are in my lens diameter. The Barlow lens only provided distortion. The 4mm lens was too dark even during the day, so I didn't waste my time with that, so I basically used only the 20mm lens which didn't give much detail of anything. Other than a better finder (I think a 1x will work best), I'll need another lens of some kind. What should be my next choice for more magnification? Regarding the mount and changing direction, am I doing this correctly? I loosen the main screws for Dec and RA, rotate the scope to the next target, tighten the Dec and RA screws, use the fine RA and Dec adjusters for fine positioning. It seems awkward to reach around and tighten the screws while maintain a fix on the target. Is there some better way to do this? When I got back to my apartment and loaded up Stellarium, it showed Andromeda at my zenith, which made no sense according to my failed attempts of lining up with Cassiopeia. Another task is to get Stellarium set up properly. Thank you AM for pointed out my polar vs. zenith axis settings. FYI, I read some helpful tips on http://astro-tom.com/tips_and_advice/tips_and_advice.htm. I think my next outing will be some night when there's a moon. Other than Ebay, Where do people shop on line for eyepieces? ~ L
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Date: 22 Sep 2006 23:35:23
From: Michael Sisson
Subject: Re: My First Outing with a Telescope
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In article <1158955437.966568.85590@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com >, lauren_the_ravishing@yahoo.com says... > I took the scope (Celestron 127mm, EQ mount) up to the roof last night > and didn't find any of what I was looking for. > My tips. I'm new - 9 months in now. 1. Unless you are 95, you have all the time in the world. That stuff up there has been there for like, ever, and it isn't going anywhere soon. 2. If you can't find it, eventually you will, and the search makes it all the sweeter when you do find it. M5 was such a search, but I'll never forget the feeling when I found it. 3. I live in an apartment with a SW view. I let everything come to me. I am learning small chunks of the sky at a time, and although I am sad to see familiar, newly learned, sections of sky disappear into the horizon, I know I will see it again next year. And the year after, and so on. 4. I spend probably too much time (if the pros watched me) trying to equate the view in my eyepiece with charts and atlases. Jeez, it is hard to mentally flip the view and try to figure out which of all those stars are supposed to be there on the chart. Charts don't show *all* the stars, and there are almost always a lot of dim ones there that aren't on the charts. And that is confusing as hell. But like I said, the search is a good part of the fun. 5. Don't try to cram everything in at once. I *just* viewed my first galaxy the other night (M31, as it happens). I have just never bothered to go hunting for one in 9 months. Double stars, globs, open clusters, Orion Incredible Nebula, Jupiter, Saturn, the Moon(! I never expected to be as impressed or intrigued by the Moon as I have been) .... those have all been looked at and enjoyed, in time. 6. Equatorial mounts are a little wacky, at first. I loosened up the DEC and RA and just experimented for a long time and learned how the mount moved and what to expect of it. Sometimes the knobs *are* in odd places. 7. Stellarium is a fantastic bit of kit that helps to understand how the stars and sun and planets all 'move' through the sky. One day in the far future I will Google this post up and be amazed at all the things I had yet to learn. MRSisson -- LOAD "GPL",8 SEARCHING FOR GPL LOADING READY. RUN
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Date: 23 Sep 2006 10:14:24
From: Dennis Woos
Subject: Re: My First Outing with a Telescope
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"Michael Sisson" <MRSissonREMOVE@DIS.com > wrote in message news:MPG.1f7e7582331f39c99896a5@news.giganews.com... > In article <1158955437.966568.85590@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com>, > lauren_the_ravishing@yahoo.com says... > >> I took the scope (Celestron 127mm, EQ mount) up to the roof last night >> and didn't find any of what I was looking for. >> > > My tips. I'm new - 9 months in now. > > > 1. Unless you are 95, you have all the time in the world. That stuff up > there has been there for like, ever, and it isn't going anywhere soon. > > 2. If you can't find it, eventually you will, and the search makes it > all the sweeter when you do find it. M5 was such a search, but I'll > never forget the feeling when I found it. > > 3. I live in an apartment with a SW view. I let everything come to me. I > am learning small chunks of the sky at a time, and although I am sad to > see familiar, newly learned, sections of sky disappear into the horizon, > I know I will see it again next year. And the year after, and so on. > > 4. I spend probably too much time (if the pros watched me) trying to > equate the view in my eyepiece with charts and atlases. Jeez, it is hard > to mentally flip the view and try to figure out which of all those stars > are supposed to be there on the chart. Charts don't show *all* the > stars, and there are almost always a lot of dim ones there that aren't > on the charts. And that is confusing as hell. But like I said, the > search is a good part of the fun. > > 5. Don't try to cram everything in at once. I *just* viewed my first > galaxy the other night (M31, as it happens). I have just never bothered > to go hunting for one in 9 months. Double stars, globs, open clusters, > Orion Incredible Nebula, Jupiter, Saturn, the Moon(! I never expected to > be as impressed or intrigued by the Moon as I have been) .... those have > all been looked at and enjoyed, in time. > > 6. Equatorial mounts are a little wacky, at first. I loosened up the DEC > and RA and just experimented for a long time and learned how the mount > moved and what to expect of it. Sometimes the knobs *are* in odd places. > > 7. Stellarium is a fantastic bit of kit that helps to understand how the > stars and sun and planets all 'move' through the sky. > > > One day in the far future I will Google this post up and be amazed at > all the things I had yet to learn. > > MRSisson I like your attitude! I used to wake up in the early morning hours, and spend a couple of hours observing through a large window. I started by finding on my planisphere something I could see in the sky, like Taurus. Navigating from what I knew, I would observe stuff that I had previously located and looked at, and maybe try and find something new. I used my eyes and 7x50 binos. Later, I used a homemade 75mm refractor (Rini/Edmund lens) on a photo tripod. I remember my excitement in finding M37, M36, and M38, and I would return to them night after night. Harder stuff like M1 was much more challenging, but these targets too became relatively routine. The cool thing about observing in this way is that the adventure never stops. My sons and I can point our scopes at lots of great targets faster than a goto scope can slew to them. However, there are untold numbers of new things to learn and observe, and almost every night out we are again explorers. No pressure or hurry - we will either find and observe whatever it is, or we won't and we will try again another night. In either case, we have lots of fun and I believe we are better off for it. Dennis
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Date: 23 Sep 2006 13:22:00
From: Phil Wheeler
Subject: Re: My First Outing with a Telescope
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Michael Sisson wrote: > In article <1158955437.966568.85590@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com>, > lauren_the_ravishing@yahoo.com says... > >> I took the scope (Celestron 127mm, EQ mount) up to the roof last night >> and didn't find any of what I was looking for. >> > > My tips. I'm new - 9 months in now. > > > 1. Unless you are 95, you have all the time in the world. That stuff up > there has been there for like, ever, and it isn't going anywhere soon. > From the perspective of more age, I suspect, things do get harder as you age .. and well before 95! Eyesight deteriorates and (assuming you need to transport scopes to observe) that gets more daunting, both physically and mentally. And the skies are not improving. Having "all the time in the world" is an optimistic view, Michael :) Phil
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Date: 22 Sep 2006 17:16:20
From: John Banister
Subject: Re: My First Outing with a Telescope
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Lauren, don't despair, I was the same place as you last Christmas, and after only nine months I can actually find stuff in the sky. <G > I am assuming that you have the Celestron Powerseeker newtonian reflector scope, which I have not used. I am also assuming that you are in North America (is it New York?). Am I also right in assuming that your skies are fairly light polluted? (Before you do anything, go out in the day and make sure your finder scope is properly aligned. Try to find a prominent object (a water tower works well) at least 1/2 to 1 mile away. Center that in your finder scope and see if it is in your main scope. If it isn't you will have to search around until you find it in your main scope, which is much easier in the day than in the night. When you find it, center it exactly in the main scope and then adjust the finder scope to center it there.) Your first goal is to be able to find something specific in the night sky with the naked eye. Start with something big. Right now the two biggest things that come to mind are the Summer Triangle and the Great Square of Pegasus. If you go out around 9:00 p.m. and look straight up you should see the three brightest stars in the sky above you. The brightest is Vega and will be the westernmost of the three. The second brighest is Altair and will be the southernmost of the three. Exactly straight up is Deneb. These stars are about 30 degrees apart and are a good starting point for learning the summer/fall sky. Incidentally, Deneb and Altair are on the Milkway. Once your eyes have dark adapted after about 1/2 hour, you should be able to see that running NNW to SSE if your skies are not too light poluted. Once you've identified these three stars with the naked eye, find them in your scope, using your previously aligned finder scope. Use your 20 mm eyepiece, not the 4mm. Looking at stars in a telescope isn't all that exciting, but the practice will be good, and looking at bright stars in your scope will let you see the relative brightness of things. Once you've got that all down, look up at these three stars with the naked eye and see if you can make out their respective constallations. Vega is the brightest star in Lyra. Altair is the brightest star in Aquilla. Deneb is the brighest star in Cygnus. Use your star wheel to identify the main shapes of these constellations. Cygnus is sometimes known as the Northern Cross and looks like a slightly bent cross, so that should be the easiest. All of these constellations have goodies for later viewing. If you want to go back to your scope, identify the southernmost star in the cross of Cygnus It is Albiero and is a nice double star. (Deneb is the "top" of the cross and Albiero is the "bottom"). My guess is that you will be able to spend many nights over the next month exploring these three constellations, which remain high in the sky and away from some of the worst light polution. While Deneb is straight up, look due east about 1/2 way to the horizon. You should see a large formation of four stars which make a slightly "squshed" square. This is the Great Square of Pegasus. Each side of this square is about 1/2 the distance from Deneb to Vega. These stars are not as bright as the Summer Triangle, but they are easy to see once you know what you are looking for. Identify the left most of these four stars (closest to Cassiopea). This is Alpheratz. With the naked eye you should see two "lines" of stars going north from Alpheratz. With your naked eye, follow the "upper" line (i.e. the one closest to the zenith) for two more stars toward Cassiopea and you should see a "smudge" of brightness which is bigger than a star. This is M31. You may need averted vision to make it out clearly, and a pair of binoculars can also help. In your scope (20 mm eyepiece) it should look like a dim ball of luminesence much bigger than a star. It will fill about 1/4 of your eyepeice but will be much dimmer than the photos you have probably seen. Do not expect to see the flattened oval shape of the entire galaxy that you see in photos. You are looking for the bright center of the galaxy. Hope this helps. More comments interspersed with your original text below. -John "Lauren the Ravishing" <lauren_the_ravishing@yahoo.com > wrote in message news:1158955437.966568.85590@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com... >I took the scope (Celestron 127mm, EQ mount) up to the roof last night > and didn't find any of what I was looking for. My first target was M31. > If I did manage to stumble upon M31, I certainly didn't know it. > > The Barlow lens only provided distortion. The 4mm lens was too dark > even during the day, so I didn't waste my time with that, so I > basically used only the 20mm lens which didn't give much detail of > anything. Other than a better finder (I think a 1x will work best), > I'll need another lens of some kind. What should be my next choice for > more magnification? If this is the same barlow that came with my Celestron eyepiece kit, it is pretty poor. It's OK for stars and the moon, but seems to distort things too much for my taste. However, I have a F4.6 scope, which is more sensitive to such things. Give your barlow a chance for a while. If you have the same 20 mm eyepiece that came with my Celestron scope (silver with "multcoated Plossl) on it) its not a bad eyepeice at all. I recommend that you use it exclusively until you can find thing in your scope. The 4mm is too powerful for most work, so I recommend keeping it in the box for a while. If you look at some double stars, it should be worth a try, and it may give some good views of Saturn if you want to get up early in the morning these nights. > Regarding the mount and changing direction, am I doing this correctly? > I loosen the main screws for Dec and RA, rotate the scope to the next > target, tighten the Dec and RA screws, use the fine RA and Dec > adjusters for fine positioning. It seems awkward to reach around and > tighten the screws while maintain a fix on the target. Is there some > better way to do this? If you are taking about the Dec and RA "locks," you've got it right. I find it easiest to unlock them both and just move the scope until the target is in the finder scope. Then lock them and use the slow motion controls to center it in your finder scope. Hopefully that will put the object in your main scope and you can further refine things with the slow motion controls. > Other than Ebay, Where do people shop on line for eyepieces? Most recommend against Ebay. Orion is a good source of eyepieces. Go to their web site and order a free catalog. However, I would work with your 20mm for quite before buying more. You might look at a better barlow (their Shorty Plus is good) before buying more eyepeices.
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Date: 22 Sep 2006 20:59:35
From: Craig M. Bobchin
Subject: Re: My First Outing with a Telescope
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In article <1158955437.966568.85590@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com >, lauren_the_ravishing@yahoo.com says... > I took the scope (Celestron 127mm, EQ mount) up to the roof last night > and didn't find any of what I was looking for. My first target was M31. > If I did manage to stumble upon M31, I certainly didn't know it. > Everything in the scope was so dark that if I panned across it, it was > too dark to notice. I gave up on the other objects, Albiero and another > galaxy (M15 maybe?) since I was even less prepared for them. Maybe it > was a bad first target. See my other post about what I DID see. > > I now know the value of preparing this stuff ahead of time. I made some > marks on my star wheel assuming that it would be enough. I had trouble > associating what I saw on the wheel with what was in the sky. I wasn't > even sure exactly which way was North. I figured I'd easily recognize > Polaris, but didn't. Once up on the roof I found that the finderscope > alignment I made in my living room was totally off. Ten minutes of > rooftop adjustments helped a lot. I think my next task is to understand > the scale of things; how my atlas grids represent what portion of the > sky and how many degrees are in my lens diameter. > > The Barlow lens only provided distortion. The 4mm lens was too dark > even during the day, so I didn't waste my time with that, so I > basically used only the 20mm lens which didn't give much detail of > anything. Other than a better finder (I think a 1x will work best), > I'll need another lens of some kind. What should be my next choice for > more magnification? Don't use the barlow!!!! You need low power at 1st not more magnification. Use a 32mm Eyepiece. The irst thing you have to learn is how to manage your expectations. You will not see things as they look in pictures. Most galaxies, nebulas etc... will look like smallish greyish fuzzy blobs. Try looking at planets and the moon first. Also There are some pretty double stars that you can see. > Regarding the mount and changing direction, am I doing this correctly? > I loosen the main screws for Dec and RA, rotate the scope to the next > target, tighten the Dec and RA screws, use the fine RA and Dec > adjusters for fine positioning. It seems awkward to reach around and > tighten the screws while maintain a fix on the target. Is there some > better way to do this? > > When I got back to my apartment and loaded up Stellarium, it showed > Andromeda at my zenith, which made no sense according to my failed > attempts of lining up with Cassiopeia. Another task is to get > Stellarium set up properly. Thank you AM for pointed out my polar vs. > zenith axis settings. Did you set Stellarium to your location and time you were observing, not the current time? That might help a bit. > > FYI, I read some helpful tips on > http://astro-tom.com/tips_and_advice/tips_and_advice.htm. > > I think my next outing will be some night when there's a moon. > > Other than Ebay, Where do people shop on line for eyepieces? Astromart.com classifieds, local telescope shops, Orion. One other thing you might want to check, is the collimation of your scope. If it is off, your views will always seem slightly out of focus.
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Date: 22 Sep 2006 16:18:48
From: Dennis Woos
Subject: Re: My First Outing with a Telescope
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"Lauren the Ravishing" <lauren_the_ravishing@yahoo.com > wrote in message news:1158955437.966568.85590@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com... >I took the scope (Celestron 127mm, EQ mount) up to the roof last night > and didn't find any of what I was looking for. My first target was M31. > If I did manage to stumble upon M31, I certainly didn't know it. > Everything in the scope was so dark that if I panned across it, it was > too dark to notice. I gave up on the other objects, Albiero and another > galaxy (M15 maybe?) since I was even less prepared for them. Maybe it > was a bad first target. See my other post about what I DID see. > > I now know the value of preparing this stuff ahead of time. I made some > marks on my star wheel assuming that it would be enough. I had trouble > associating what I saw on the wheel with what was in the sky. I wasn't > even sure exactly which way was North. I figured I'd easily recognize > Polaris, but didn't. Once up on the roof I found that the finderscope > alignment I made in my living room was totally off. Ten minutes of > rooftop adjustments helped a lot. I think my next task is to understand > the scale of things; how my atlas grids represent what portion of the > sky and how many degrees are in my lens diameter. > > The Barlow lens only provided distortion. The 4mm lens was too dark > even during the day, so I didn't waste my time with that, so I > basically used only the 20mm lens which didn't give much detail of > anything. Other than a better finder (I think a 1x will work best), > I'll need another lens of some kind. What should be my next choice for > more magnification? > > Regarding the mount and changing direction, am I doing this correctly? > I loosen the main screws for Dec and RA, rotate the scope to the next > target, tighten the Dec and RA screws, use the fine RA and Dec > adjusters for fine positioning. It seems awkward to reach around and > tighten the screws while maintain a fix on the target. Is there some > better way to do this? > > When I got back to my apartment and loaded up Stellarium, it showed > Andromeda at my zenith, which made no sense according to my failed > attempts of lining up with Cassiopeia. Another task is to get > Stellarium set up properly. Thank you AM for pointed out my polar vs. > zenith axis settings. > > FYI, I read some helpful tips on > http://astro-tom.com/tips_and_advice/tips_and_advice.htm. > > I think my next outing will be some night when there's a moon. > > Other than Ebay, Where do people shop on line for eyepieces? > > ~ L > Based on this post, I suggest that you temporarily bag the scope, and just use your eyes and low-power binos, a planisphere, "Turn Left at Orion, a red flashlight, and a lawn chair. You need to learn your way around the sky before increasing the magnification, and the last thing you need right now is a higher power eyepiece. Most importantly, you need to spend some time with folks who know their way around the sky, and who know how to use a scope to observe. Join your local astro club, and attend their events! Dennis
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Date: 22 Sep 2006 23:46:27
From: Ioannis
Subject: Re: My First Outing with a Telescope
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"Dennis Woos" <dpwoos@gmavt.net > wrote in message news:12h8h99rs7kf87c@corp.supernews.com... [snip] > Based on this post, I suggest that you temporarily bag the scope, and just > use your eyes and low-power binos, a planisphere, "Turn Left at Orion, a red > flashlight, and a lawn chair. You need to learn your way around the sky > before increasing the magnification, and the last thing you need right now > is a higher power eyepiece. Most importantly, you need to spend some time > with folks who know their way around the sky, and who know how to use a > scope to observe. Join your local astro club, and attend their events! A somewhat milder suggestion would be to still use his scope, but in altazimuth mode. Starhopping with the scope in equatorial mode is quite hard, even for some of us with slightly more experience. For example, while I can find Albireo without even a finder in altazimuth mode, last year I spent about half an hour trying to freely guide my friend's Meade ETX 125 with the mount in equatorial mode. But I don't have much experience with equatorial mounts either, so it figures. > Dennis -- Ioannis ------- The best way to predict reality, is to know exactly what you DON'T want.
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Date: 28 Sep 2006 21:07:49
From: Dan Krueger
Subject: Re: My First Outing with a Telescope
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> Based on this post, I suggest that you temporarily bag the scope, and just > use your eyes and low-power binos, a planisphere, "Turn Left at Orion, a red > flashlight, and a lawn chair. You need to learn your way around the sky > before increasing the magnification, and the last thing you need right now > is a higher power eyepiece. Most importantly, you need to spend some time > with folks who know their way around the sky, and who know how to use a > scope to observe. Join your local astro club, and attend their events! > Dennis It's a good deal for all involved. Cam It's s design flaw that baffles anyone who's ever used it. You'd need to contact the to find out who I am? Sincerely, Scott Connors Well......a Reply Jeff? "Scott" < > wrote in message ... The -R scopes, have a more 'traditional' SCT design. They have been in buisiness since 1935. The restaurant is usually packed solid. There is often an hour if not longer wait in line to get in. I'd have to differ with each other, they *love* to differ with you on a couple of lovely strips that went onto the K as their total commitment to our Supper. I have heard the same and also someone posted either here or in another group that safflower oil (I'm not even sure how it started up, except Bob L wrote that insane story - and I liked the older netscape better than this newer one.
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Date: 22 Sep 2006 23:30:33
From: Willie R. Meghar
Subject: Re: My First Outing with a Telescope
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"Lauren the Ravishing" <lauren_the_ravishing@yahoo.com > wrote: >I took the scope (Celestron 127mm, EQ mount) up to the roof last night >and didn't find any of what I was looking for. My first target was M31. >If I did manage to stumble upon M31, I certainly didn't know it. >Everything in the scope was so dark that if I panned across it, it was >too dark to notice. I gave up on the other objects, Albiero and another >galaxy (M15 maybe?) since I was even less prepared for them. Maybe it >was a bad first target. See my other post about what I DID see. Practice pointing the telescope at bright stars! After gaining some degree of success with the above, try for Albireo and the Double Cluster in Perseus. These objects should be easier to see and point the telescope at than M31. The field of view of your telescope is quite narrow. The probability of finding any one specific object by panning is rather slim. It's important to ascertain that the finder and the telescope point at the same distant object -- then use the finder to point the telescope at your desired target. I'm mildly concerned about your comment: "Everything in the scope was so dark . . ." Until you succeed in pointing the telescope at a desired target, use only the 20mm eyepiece without the barlow. Choose the darkest location practical to set up the telescope. Use only a red light to read charts, etc. Try not to look toward any bright lights, etc. >I now know the value of preparing this stuff ahead of time. I made some >marks on my star wheel assuming that it would be enough. I had trouble >associating what I saw on the wheel with what was in the sky. I wasn't >even sure exactly which way was North. I figured I'd easily recognize >Polaris, but didn't. Once up on the roof I found that the finderscope >alignment I made in my living room was totally off. Ten minutes of >rooftop adjustments helped a lot. I think my next task is to understand >the scale of things; how my atlas grids represent what portion of the >sky and how many degrees are in my lens diameter. Your 5x24 finder probably has a field of view of *approximately* 5 1/2 degrees. The 20mm eyepiece used with your telescope probably gives a field of view of *approximately* 1 degree. The planisphere is an excellent tool for finding and recognizing the various constellations; but it lacks the scale needed to successfully point your telescope at anything other than the brighter stars. When starting out it's good to have the planisphere *and* your star atlas available for use. >The Barlow lens only provided distortion. The 4mm lens was too dark >even during the day, so I didn't waste my time with that, so I >basically used only the 20mm lens which didn't give much detail of >anything. Other than a better finder (I think a 1x will work best), >I'll need another lens of some kind. What should be my next choice for >more magnification? Higher magnifications tend to be more difficult to use than lower magnifications. *After* becoming proficient at pointing your telescope at your desired targets using your 20mm eyepiece you'll be in a better position to spend money on a higher power eyepiece. A 9mm Expanse eyepiece from Orion would be a good higher power eyepiece. The wide apparent field of view and long eye relief of this eyepiece make it better than most others for people just starting out in this hobby. The price is quite reasonably as well. >Regarding the mount and changing direction, am I doing this correctly? >I loosen the main screws for Dec and RA, rotate the scope to the next >target, tighten the Dec and RA screws, use the fine RA and Dec >adjusters for fine positioning. It seems awkward to reach around and >tighten the screws while maintain a fix on the target. Is there some >better way to do this? This is where a properly balanced telescope comes in handy. If the telescope is balanced it'll remain pointed at the targeted object even when you release your hold on the telescope. You should try to adjust the telescope in its cradle so it balances front to back. Next the counterweight is adjusted until it's in balance with the weight of the telescope. Your basic procedure is good; but it'll go a bit smoother with a balanced instrument -- you'll be able to release the telescope before tightening the RA and Dec. axes. Willie R. Meghar http://meghar.blogspot.com/
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