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Main
Date: 29 Nov 2006 02:39:12
From: west
Subject: Law of Orbits
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If this question could be answered, it might straighten out some confusion
for me.
Let's say the sun vanishes instantly. We wouldn't go dark until 8 minutes
later. However, what happens to the earth's orbit? Would it also take 8
minutes for the earth to fly out of its orbit? All comments most welcomed &
thanks.
Cordially,
west
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Date: 28 Nov 2006 20:42:17
From: Brian Tung
Subject: Re: Law of Orbits
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west wrote:
> Let's say the sun vanishes instantly. We wouldn't go dark until 8 minutes
> later. However, what happens to the earth's orbit? Would it also take 8
> minutes for the earth to fly out of its orbit? All comments most welcomed &
> thanks.
According to general relativity, the effects of gravity propagate at
the speed of light, so it would also take eight minutes for the Earth's
orbit to deviate. There have been some measurements that seem to verify
this, although this conclusion is disputed, with some physicists
claiming that what is being measured (albeit indirectly) is the speed of
light, not the speed of gravity.
--
Brian Tung <brian@isi.edu >
The Astronomy Corner at http://astro.isi.edu/
Unofficial C5+ Home Page at http://astro.isi.edu/c5plus/
The PleiadAtlas Home Page at http://astro.isi.edu/pleiadatlas/
My Own Personal FAQ (SAA) at http://astro.isi.edu/reference/faq.html
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Date: 29 Nov 2006 02:50:03
From: Sam Wormley
Subject: Re: Law of Orbits
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west wrote:
> If this question could be answered, it might straighten out some confusion
> for me.
>
> Let's say the sun vanishes instantly. We wouldn't go dark until 8 minutes
> later. However, what happens to the earth's orbit? Would it also take 8
> minutes for the earth to fly out of its orbit? All comments most welcomed &
> thanks.
>
> Cordially,
> west
>
>
Eight minutes for light
Eight minutes for gravitational wave propagation.
Nicely visualized here
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/elegant/program.html
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Date: 29 Nov 2006 10:20:41
From: oriel36
Subject: Re: Law of Orbits
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west wrote:
> If this question could be answered, it might straighten out some confusion
> for me.
>
> Let's say the sun vanishes instantly. We wouldn't go dark until 8 minutes
> later. However, what happens to the earth's orbit? Would it also take 8
> minutes for the earth to fly out of its orbit? All comments most welcomed &
> thanks.
>
> Cordially,
> west
Remember that the Earth not only particpates in its motions around the
Sun,it also moves with the solar system in one direction around the
galactic axis spending roughly 6 months travelling in the direction of
the solar system's galactic orbital motion and 6 months against the
direction of the solar system's galactic orbital motion.
In another era the excellent question you posed would have produced a
discussion on how much the motion of the solar system around the
galactic axis affects heliocentric planetary motion insofar as it may
generate an effect similar to Keplerian orbital geometries but the
unfortunate people here are stuck in a Newtonian celestial sphere
framework and are obliged only to recognise local solutions for orbital
motion based solely on the Sun.
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Date: 29 Nov 2006 01:34:42
From: Trailer Trash ReUnion
Subject: Re: Law of Orbits
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diDNt you ask this once before the last two times youa sked it?
TROLL ALERT.
west wrote:
> If this question could be answered, it might straighten out some confusion
> for me.
>
> Let's say the sun vanishes instantly. We wouldn't go dark until 8 minutes
> later. However, what happens to the earth's orbit? Would it also take 8
> minutes for the earth to fly out of its orbit? All comments most welcomed &
> thanks.
>
> Cordially,
> west
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Date: 29 Nov 2006 10:59:21
From: west
Subject: Re: Law of Orbits
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Relax. You're wrong, my paranoid friend.
west
"Trailer Trash ReUnion" <hogwash@ai5.net > wrote in message
news:456D3812.E840D74D@ai5.net...
> diDNt you ask this once before the last two times youa sked it?
> TROLL ALERT.
>
> west wrote:
>
> > If this question could be answered, it might straighten out some
confusion
> > for me.
> >
> > Let's say the sun vanishes instantly. We wouldn't go dark until 8
minutes
> > later. However, what happens to the earth's orbit? Would it also take 8
> > minutes for the earth to fly out of its orbit? All comments most
welcomed &
> > thanks.
> >
> > Cordially,
> > west
>
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Date: 29 Nov 2006 07:51:44
From: Greg Crinklaw
Subject: Re: Law of Orbits
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west wrote:
> Relax. You're wrong, my paranoid friend.
Then why are you asking, may I ask? Every time I've heard this question
posed before it was invariably just an excuse to start posting bunk
about "plasma physics" pseudoscience.
--
Greg Crinklaw
Astronomical Software Developer
Cloudcroft, New Mexico, USA (33N, 106W, 2700m)
SkyTools: http://www.skyhound.com/cs.html
Observing: http://www.skyhound.com/sh/skyhound.html
Comets: http://www.skyhound.com/sh/comets.html
To reply take out your eye
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Date: 29 Nov 2006 15:06:43
From: Chris L Peterson
Subject: Re: Law of Orbits
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On Wed, 29 Nov 2006 07:51:44 -0700, Greg Crinklaw
<theskyhoundyoureye@yahoo.com > wrote:
>west wrote:
>> Relax. You're wrong, my paranoid friend.
>
>Then why are you asking, may I ask? Every time I've heard this question
>posed before it was invariably just an excuse to start posting bunk
>about "plasma physics" pseudoscience.
It was a reasonable question, civilly asked and well answered (except by
Trailer Trash... and what would you expect from someone who chooses that
name?) If the OP or somebody else comes back with pseudoscience, feel
free to challenge it, but it's unfair until then to suggest ulterior
motives underlie the question.
_________________________________________________
Chris L Peterson
Cloudbait Observatory
http://www.cloudbait.com
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Date: 29 Nov 2006 08:19:11
From: Greg Crinklaw
Subject: Re: Law of Orbits
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Chris L Peterson wrote:
> On Wed, 29 Nov 2006 07:51:44 -0700, Greg Crinklaw
> <theskyhoundyoureye@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> west wrote:
>>> Relax. You're wrong, my paranoid friend.
>
>> Then why are you asking, may I ask? Every time I've heard this question
>> posed before it was invariably just an excuse to start posting bunk
>> about "plasma physics" pseudoscience.
>
> It was a reasonable question, civilly asked and well answered (except by
> Trailer Trash... and what would you expect from someone who chooses that
> name?) If the OP or somebody else comes back with pseudoscience, feel
> free to challenge it, but it's unfair until then to suggest ulterior
> motives underlie the question.
Gee thanks for the holier-than-thou tongue lashing. And thanks for
telling me to "feel free" to post some things (but apparently not
others). It is so heartwarming to know the net police are out there
watching over us. Very much appreciated.
Fact is, this question is the standard intro to the plasma physics
pseudoscience and I have seen it going around again on a couple of other
forums lately. Another fact: I simply asked a question. It was a
reasonable question, civilly asked. If the poster isn't going to start
a pseudoscience thread, then no harm done. If that was his intention,
then you have been forewarned.
Oh, and please don't trip over your keyboard to thank me for the head's up!
Greg
--
Greg Crinklaw
Astronomical Software Developer
Cloudcroft, New Mexico, USA (33N, 106W, 2700m)
SkyTools: http://www.skyhound.com/cs.html
Observing: http://www.skyhound.com/sh/skyhound.html
Comets: http://www.skyhound.com/sh/comets.html
To reply take out your eye
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Date: 29 Nov 2006 15:37:27
From: Chris L Peterson
Subject: Re: Law of Orbits
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On Wed, 29 Nov 2006 08:19:11 -0700, Greg Crinklaw
<theskyhoundyoureye@yahoo.com > wrote:
>>> Then why are you asking, may I ask? Every time I've heard this question
>>> posed before it was invariably just an excuse to start posting bunk
>>> about "plasma physics" pseudoscience.
>>
>> It was a reasonable question, civilly asked and well answered (except by
>> Trailer Trash... and what would you expect from someone who chooses that
>> name?) If the OP or somebody else comes back with pseudoscience, feel
>> free to challenge it, but it's unfair until then to suggest ulterior
>> motives underlie the question.
>
>Gee thanks for the holier-than-thou tongue lashing...
Relax. If you want to help keep this group civil and topical, there's no
point in challenging the motives behind asking reasonable questions. You
demanded the OP explain why he asked the question. That's just plain
unnecessary and unfriendly.
Do you really want to be a tool of Trailer Trash?
_________________________________________________
Chris L Peterson
Cloudbait Observatory
http://www.cloudbait.com
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Date: 29 Nov 2006 09:05:30
From: Greg Crinklaw
Subject: Re: Law of Orbits
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Chris L Peterson wrote:
> On Wed, 29 Nov 2006 08:19:11 -0700, Greg Crinklaw
> <theskyhoundyoureye@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>>> Then why are you asking, may I ask? Every time I've heard this question
>>>> posed before it was invariably just an excuse to start posting bunk
>>>> about "plasma physics" pseudoscience.
>>> It was a reasonable question, civilly asked and well answered (except by
>>> Trailer Trash... and what would you expect from someone who chooses that
>>> name?) If the OP or somebody else comes back with pseudoscience, feel
>>> free to challenge it, but it's unfair until then to suggest ulterior
>>> motives underlie the question.
>> Gee thanks for the holier-than-thou tongue lashing...
>
> Relax. If you want to help keep this group civil and topical, there's no
> point in challenging the motives behind asking reasonable questions. You
> demanded the OP explain why he asked the question. That's just plain
> unnecessary and unfriendly.
>
> Do you really want to be a tool of Trailer Trash?
That's your problem then? I post for myself sir. From my point of
view, it is *you* that is "challenging the motives behind asking
reasonable questions." Apparently purely on the basis of the post I
chose to respond to.
--
Greg Crinklaw
Astronomical Software Developer
Cloudcroft, New Mexico, USA (33N, 106W, 2700m)
SkyTools: http://www.skyhound.com/cs.html
Observing: http://www.skyhound.com/sh/skyhound.html
Comets: http://www.skyhound.com/sh/comets.html
To reply take out your eye
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Date: 29 Nov 2006 12:55:25
From: Jim Hewitt
Subject: Re: Law of Orbits
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"Greg Crinklaw" <theskyhoundyoureye@yahoo.com > wrote in message
news:5df2f$456d9e78$4212a5ee$8238@TULAROSA.NET...
>
> Then why are you asking, may I ask? Every time I've heard this question
> posed before it was invariably just an excuse to start posting bunk about
> "plasma physics" pseudoscience.
Gee, now that YOU brought up "plasma physicas"... ;-}
Jim
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Date: 30 Nov 2006 23:12:53
From: Dr J R Stockton
Subject: Re: Law of Orbits
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In sci.astro.amateur message <kp6bh.13856$9e.2204@trnddc02 >, Wed, 29 Nov
2006 02:39:12, west <restccq2@verizon.net > wrote:
>If this question could be answered, it might straighten out some confusion
>for me.
>
>Let's say the sun vanishes instantly. We wouldn't go dark until 8 minutes
>later. However, what happens to the earth's orbit? Would it also take 8
>minutes for the earth to fly out of its orbit? All comments most welcomed &
>thanks.
Since, according to our present understanding of this Universe, it is
absolutely impossible for the mass of the Sun to vanish or depart
instantly, your question is fundamentally unanswerable using our present
understanding of this Universe.
The worst that can happen is that an evil super-hero sneaks up on the
other side of the Sun and suddenly changes its dipole or higher moment
(I have a vague feeling that dipole may also be impossible, or would
have no effect on us, in which case use quadrupole) by a large amount.
It is confidently believed, but not necessarily absolutely proven, that
the effect would travel at the speed of light.
If the Sun were to explode symmetrically, then we'd see it after 8
minutes (a distant observer on the axis defined by the Ecliptic, whose
distances from Sun & Earth would be equal would see us light up 8
minutes after he saw the Sun explode); but there would be no
gravitational effect on us until pieces started going past us.
--
(c) John Stockton, Surrey, UK. ?@merlyn.demon.co.uk Turnpike v6.05 MIME.
Web <URL:http://www.merlyn.demon.co.uk/ > - FAQqish topics, acronyms & links;
Astro stuff via astron-1.htm, gravity0.htm ; quotings.htm, pascal.htm, etc.
No Encoding. Quotes before replies. Snip well. Write clearly. Don't Mail News.
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