Is an observatory worth building if your telescopes are not mounted on piers?

astronomy-chat.net
Promoting astronomy discussion.

Main

Date: 06 Nov 2006 18:14:23
From:
Subject: Is an observatory worth building if your telescopes are not mounted on piers?

Do the other benefits of having an observatory (like shelter from the
wind, not having to haul your telescope outside every night, etc.) make
the effort and expense worthwhile?

And if your telescope is not pier-mounted, what kind of floor do you
have in your observatory? How do you prevent vibrations?

Date: 07 Nov 2006 09:56:40
From: Joe S.
Subject: Re: Is an observatory worth building if your telescopes are not mounted on piers?

<allisonki@IGNmail.com > wrote in message
news:1162865663.076771.19450@m7g2000cwm.googlegroups.com...
> Do the other benefits of having an observatory (like shelter from the
> wind, not having to haul your telescope outside every night, etc.) make
> the effort and expense worthwhile?
>
> And if your telescope is not pier-mounted, what kind of floor do you
> have in your observatory? How do you prevent vibrations?
>

After losing it all in Hurricane Katrina, including the house we were
building, we are now looking around in the central and upper-central
Shenandoah Valley. After we build a house there, I plan to pour a concrete
pad and on one corner of the pad erect a small building -- probably 4 X 6.
Run electricity underground to the building. Store scopes, table, chairs,
etc. in the building, set up scopes on the concrete pad -- I lost my scopes
in Katrina and so far have replaced only a 12-inch Dob, will add a go-to
scope of some kind.

What you build should be governed by your observing habits. I pull my scope
out 1-2 times a week so a full observatory with dome, pier, heat and A/C,
jacuzzi, full bath, wet bar, hot and cold running maids, etc., would be too
much for me -- concrete pad with storage shed is all I need. Your mileage
may vary.

As to the vibration question -- I'm not a structural engineer but it seems
to me the only floor that will not vibrate would be concrete, complete with
footers, rebar and 6X6 screen throughout.

Date: 07 Nov 2006 11:22:24
From: David G. Nagel
Subject: Re: Is an observatory worth building if your telescopes are not mounted

Joe S. wrote:
> <allisonki@IGNmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1162865663.076771.19450@m7g2000cwm.googlegroups.com...
>
>>Do the other benefits of having an observatory (like shelter from the
>>wind, not having to haul your telescope outside every night, etc.) make
>>the effort and expense worthwhile?
>>
>>And if your telescope is not pier-mounted, what kind of floor do you
>>have in your observatory? How do you prevent vibrations?
>>
>
>
> After losing it all in Hurricane Katrina, including the house we were
> building, we are now looking around in the central and upper-central
> Shenandoah Valley. After we build a house there, I plan to pour a concrete
> pad and on one corner of the pad erect a small building -- probably 4 X 6.
> Run electricity underground to the building. Store scopes, table, chairs,
> etc. in the building, set up scopes on the concrete pad -- I lost my scopes
> in Katrina and so far have replaced only a 12-inch Dob, will add a go-to
> scope of some kind.
>
> What you build should be governed by your observing habits. I pull my scope
> out 1-2 times a week so a full observatory with dome, pier, heat and A/C,
> jacuzzi, full bath, wet bar, hot and cold running maids, etc., would be too
> much for me -- concrete pad with storage shed is all I need. Your mileage
> may vary.
>
> As to the vibration question -- I'm not a structural engineer but it seems
> to me the only floor that will not vibrate would be concrete, complete with
> footers, rebar and 6X6 screen throughout.
>
>

Sounds like a plan, but, I would suggest that you pour the pad while you
have the concrete contractor on site. This will reduce the cost of the
pad since the contractor already has his equipment and manpower on site
and will not have to make a separate trip to your site. The ready mix
will be slightly cheaper also since all they will have to do is add more
to the last truck.

Dave N

Date: 07 Nov 2006 09:39:08
From: whowell
Subject: Re: Is an observatory worth building if your telescopes are not mounted

YES!!

I live in Port Townsend, WA, where clear nights are *very* few and far
apart. I want to be able to observe when I can.

I have a 12 x 12 roll-off roof observatory. When I can---it takes less
than three minute to go out to the observatory, turn on the 12 volts,
roll the roof off, and start looking. My slab is 12 inches thick, with
rebar and screen in it--I've had four large people jump at the same time
and not noticed it in the eyepiece.

Wayne Howell
Photon Phlats Observatory
Port Townsend, WA

Date: 07 Nov 2006 11:37:56
From: Starlord
Subject: Re: Is an observatory worth building if your telescopes are not mounted on piers?

I've had large people jump and fall down into the endless gopher holes. ;}

--
The Lone Sidewalk Astronomer of Rosamond

Telescope Buyers FAQ
http://home.inreach.com/starlord
Sidewalk Astronomy
www.sidewalkastronomy.info
The Church of Eternity
http://home.inreach.com/starlord/church/Eternity.html

"whowell" <whowell@gensearch.com > wrote in message
news:Z8adnYYmE_8qWc3YnZ2dnUVZ_oadnZ2d@cablespeedwa.com...
> YES!!
I've had four large people jump at the same time
> and not noticed it in the eyepiece.
>
> Wayne Howell
> Photon Phlats Observatory
> Port Townsend, WA

Date: 07 Nov 2006 17:03:31
From: AM
Subject: Re: Is an observatory worth building if your telescopes are not mounted

Starlord wrote:
> I've had large people jump and fall down into the endless gopher holes. ;}
>
>

Obviously you havnt had my friends and I around
to take care of that problem. Round here @ 500yds
they see us and just up and disappear, they know
whats coming. (better that than hurt farm animals,
damaged crops...)

And ya aint seen nothing till you see what a Beaver
can do to a piece of lowland !! (got to get special
permission for those)

--
AM

http://sctuser.home.comcast.net

CentOS 4.3 Fluxbox 0.9.13

Date: 07 Nov 2006 16:03:25
From: Joe S.
Subject: Re: Is an observatory worth building if your telescopes are not mounted on piers?

"David G. Nagel" <nagel@core.com > wrote in message
news:12l1g6g80fggt06@corp.supernews.com...
> Joe S. wrote:
>> <allisonki@IGNmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:1162865663.076771.19450@m7g2000cwm.googlegroups.com...
>>
>>>Do the other benefits of having an observatory (like shelter from the
>>>wind, not having to haul your telescope outside every night, etc.) make
>>>the effort and expense worthwhile?
>>>
>>>And if your telescope is not pier-mounted, what kind of floor do you
>>>have in your observatory? How do you prevent vibrations?
>>>
>>
>>
>> After losing it all in Hurricane Katrina, including the house we were
>> building, we are now looking around in the central and upper-central
>> Shenandoah Valley. After we build a house there, I plan to pour a
>> concrete pad and on one corner of the pad erect a small building --
>> probably 4 X 6. Run electricity underground to the building. Store
>> scopes, table, chairs, etc. in the building, set up scopes on the
>> concrete pad -- I lost my scopes in Katrina and so far have replaced only
>> a 12-inch Dob, will add a go-to scope of some kind.
>>
>> What you build should be governed by your observing habits. I pull my
>> scope out 1-2 times a week so a full observatory with dome, pier, heat
>> and A/C, jacuzzi, full bath, wet bar, hot and cold running maids, etc.,
>> would be too much for me -- concrete pad with storage shed is all I need.
>> Your mileage may vary.
>>
>> As to the vibration question -- I'm not a structural engineer but it
>> seems to me the only floor that will not vibrate would be concrete,
>> complete with footers, rebar and 6X6 screen throughout.
>>
>>
>
> Sounds like a plan, but, I would suggest that you pour the pad while you
> have the concrete contractor on site. This will reduce the cost of the pad
> since the contractor already has his equipment and manpower on site and
> will not have to make a separate trip to your site. The ready mix will be
> slightly cheaper also since all they will have to do is add more to the
> last truck.
>
> Dave N

Agreed.

Actually, when it comes time to pour footers for the foundation, I plan to
pour concrete all over the place -- I'm a ham radio operator and I plan to
put three tower bases in the ground at various locations around the
property, later, will erect steel towers and antennas; pour a telescope pad;
pour a pad for a garage-workshop to be built later, complete with
electricity, plumbing, and HVAC; another pad for outside storage shed; pad
for HVAC unit; and, pad for propane tank.

We plan to do all our grading, set forms, etc., etc. -- then call for a pump
truck and a long line of ready-mix trucks and pour like mad.

Here's my previous concrete slab:
http://www.schlatter.org/House/plumbing%20below%20slab.htm
and
http://www.schlatter.org/House/pouring%20slab.htm

Date: 07 Nov 2006 16:19:43
From: David G. Nagel
Subject: Re: Is an observatory worth building if your telescopes are not mounted

Joe S. wrote:
> "David G. Nagel" <nagel@core.com> wrote in message
> news:12l1g6g80fggt06@corp.supernews.com...
>
>>Joe S. wrote:
>>
>>><allisonki@IGNmail.com> wrote in message
>>>news:1162865663.076771.19450@m7g2000cwm.googlegroups.com...
>>>
>>>
>>>>Do the other benefits of having an observatory (like shelter from the
>>>>wind, not having to haul your telescope outside every night, etc.) make
>>>>the effort and expense worthwhile?
>>>>
>>>>And if your telescope is not pier-mounted, what kind of floor do you
>>>>have in your observatory? How do you prevent vibrations?
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>After losing it all in Hurricane Katrina, including the house we were
>>>building, we are now looking around in the central and upper-central
>>>Shenandoah Valley. After we build a house there, I plan to pour a
>>>concrete pad and on one corner of the pad erect a small building --
>>>probably 4 X 6. Run electricity underground to the building. Store
>>>scopes, table, chairs, etc. in the building, set up scopes on the
>>>concrete pad -- I lost my scopes in Katrina and so far have replaced only
>>>a 12-inch Dob, will add a go-to scope of some kind.
>>>
>>>What you build should be governed by your observing habits. I pull my
>>>scope out 1-2 times a week so a full observatory with dome, pier, heat
>>>and A/C, jacuzzi, full bath, wet bar, hot and cold running maids, etc.,
>>>would be too much for me -- concrete pad with storage shed is all I need.
>>>Your mileage may vary.
>>>
>>>As to the vibration question -- I'm not a structural engineer but it
>>>seems to me the only floor that will not vibrate would be concrete,
>>>complete with footers, rebar and 6X6 screen throughout.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>Sounds like a plan, but, I would suggest that you pour the pad while you
>>have the concrete contractor on site. This will reduce the cost of the pad
>>since the contractor already has his equipment and manpower on site and
>>will not have to make a separate trip to your site. The ready mix will be
>>slightly cheaper also since all they will have to do is add more to the
>>last truck.
>>
>>Dave N
>
>
> Agreed.
>
> Actually, when it comes time to pour footers for the foundation, I plan to
> pour concrete all over the place -- I'm a ham radio operator and I plan to
> put three tower bases in the ground at various locations around the
> property, later, will erect steel towers and antennas; pour a telescope pad;
> pour a pad for a garage-workshop to be built later, complete with
> electricity, plumbing, and HVAC; another pad for outside storage shed; pad
> for HVAC unit; and, pad for propane tank.
>
> We plan to do all our grading, set forms, etc., etc. -- then call for a pump
> truck and a long line of ready-mix trucks and pour like mad.
>
> Here's my previous concrete slab:
> http://www.schlatter.org/House/plumbing%20below%20slab.htm
> and
> http://www.schlatter.org/House/pouring%20slab.htm
>
>

Works even better for me. Dave N WD9BDZ LX200 GPS SMT UHTC 10"

Date: 08 Nov 2006 11:53:46
From: nytecam
Subject: Re: Is an observatory worth building if your telescopes are not mounted on piers?

Joe S. Wrote:
> allisonki@IGNmail.com wrote in message
> news:1162865663.076771.19450@m7g2000cwm.googlegroups.com...-
> Do the other benefits of having an observatory (like shelter from the
> wind, not having to haul your telescope outside every night, etc.)
> make
> the effort and expense worthwhile?
>
> And if your telescope is not pier-mounted, what kind of floor do you
> have in your observatory? How do you prevent vibrations?
> -
>
> After losing it all in Hurricane Katrina, including the house we were
> building, we are now looking around in the central and upper-central
> Shenandoah Valley. After we build a house there, I plan to pour a
> concrete
> pad and on one corner of the pad erect a small building -- probably 4 X
> 6.
> Run electricity underground to the building. Store scopes, table,
> chairs,
> etc. in the building, set up scopes on the concrete pad -- I lost my
> scopes
> in Katrina and so far have replaced only a 12-inch Dob, will add a
> go-to
> scope of some kind.
>
> What you build should be governed by your observing habits. I pull my
> scope
> out 1-2 times a week so a full observatory with dome, pier, heat and
> A/C,
> jacuzzi, full bath, wet bar, hot and cold running maids, etc., would be
> too
> much for me -- concrete pad with storage shed is all I need. Your
> mileage
> may vary.
>
> As to the vibration question -- I'm not a structural engineer but it
> seems
> to me the only floor that will not vibrate would be concrete, complete
> with
> footers, rebar and 6X6 screen throughout.

An alternative [if not mentioned already] is a tripod mounted scope or
dob already set-up on a concrete pad with a lightweight - run-off
shed/enclosure - for instant observing. An old carpet/mat to stand on
will minimise any vibration.

ps: Starlord - don't you have any redress / legal rights NOT to have
your scope site flooded with neighbour's lights??

Nytecam 51N 0.1W

--
nytecam

Date: 07 Nov 2006 06:44:37
From: Davoud
Subject: Re: Is an observatory worth building if your telescopes are not mounted on piers?

<allisonki@IGNmail.com > wrote:

> Do the other benefits of having an observatory (like shelter from the
> wind, not having to haul your telescope outside every night, etc.) make
> the effort and expense worthwhile?
>
> And if your telescope is not pier-mounted, what kind of floor do you
> have in your observatory? How do you prevent vibrations?

As one who has a tiny observatory in which there is a permanent steel
pier on a 1,600 lb. concrete base
<http://www.davidillig.com/observatory15.shtml >, I would say that an
observatory would be worth having even without a permanent pier. The
idea for me is to be able to go out anytime the sky is suitable and set
up in minimal time (<five minutes for me). One could still set up
quickly with a 'scope on a tripod providing that the 'scope was left in
the observatory and pre-aligned.

In other words, yes, having an observatory is very much worthwhile.

Davoud

--
usenet *at* davidillig dawt com

Date: 06 Nov 2006 21:10:50
From: Starlord
Subject: Re: Is an observatory worth building if your telescopes are not mounted on piers?

I had planned on getting one of those kits of joints and then the 2x4's to
built it out in the middle of my garden area. I wanted to put one dob in it
and have a platform to roll it out on for viewing. But then diamond jim's
casino went and put up those blasted meagewatt lamps that flood the whole
area at night with light, even 100 yards from his place. So that project is
now dead.

--
The Lone Sidewalk Astronomer of Rosamond

Telescope Buyers FAQ
http://home.inreach.com/starlord
Sidewalk Astronomy
www.sidewalkastronomy.info
The Church of Eternity
http://home.inreach.com/starlord/church/Eternity.html

<allisonki@IGNmail.com > wrote in message
news:1162865663.076771.19450@m7g2000cwm.googlegroups.com...
> Do the other benefits of having an observatory (like shelter from the
> wind, not having to haul your telescope outside every night, etc.) make
> the effort and expense worthwhile?
>
> And if your telescope is not pier-mounted, what kind of floor do you
> have in your observatory? How do you prevent vibrations?
>

Date: 08 Nov 2006 02:36:39
From: Jim Klein
Subject: Re: Is an observatory worth building if your telescopes are not mounted on piers?

allisonki@IGNmail.com wrote:

>Do the other benefits of having an observatory (like shelter from the
>wind, not having to haul your telescope outside every night, etc.) make
>the effort and expense worthwhile?
>
>And if your telescope is not pier-mounted, what kind of floor do you
>have in your observatory? How do you prevent vibrations?

Make sure that there is some isolation between the floor and the
telescope mount so that moving around the scope does not move the
scope. The next step is a pier in the ground with steel rods and a
seperation between it and the concrete slab the building is mounted
on.

Jim Klein
James E. Klein
jameseklein@earthlink.net

Engineering Calculations
http://www.ecalculations.com
ecalculations@ecalculations.com
Engineering Calculations is the home of
the KDP-2 Optical Design Program
for Windows.
1-818-507-5706 (Voice and Fax)
1-818-823-4121

Date: 07 Nov 2006 15:44:45
From: Tater
Subject: Re: Is an observatory worth building if your telescopes are not mounted on piers?

Joe S. wrote:

> ......full observatory with dome, pier, heat and A/C,
> jacuzzi, full bath, wet bar, hot and cold running maids, etc., would be too
> much ........

never!

Date: 07 Nov 2006 12:11:13
From: Ernie Dunbar
Subject: Re: Is an observatory worth building if your telescopes are not mounted on piers?

Date: 09 Nov 2006 18:40:43
From: Bob G.
Subject: Re: Is an observatory worth building if your telescopes are not mounted on piers?

On 6 Nov 2006 18:14:23 -0800, allisonki@IGNmail.com wrote:

>Do the other benefits of having an observatory (like shelter from the
>wind, not having to haul your telescope outside every night, etc.) make
>the effort and expense worthwhile?
>
>And if your telescope is not pier-mounted, what kind of floor do you
>have in your observatory? How do you prevent vibrations?
==============My observatory was just "domed" in Mid September...and I
only have had 6-7 weeks to use the thing... so I will try to answer
you questions from my limited experience

YES .... it is well worth the effort and the cost was just above
$2,000 TOTAL...less then many guys I know have "invested in the
contents of their EP case...! not alone their scopes etc...

It has only gotten down to the mid 30's here so far this year and
BOY I was in heaven..even a slight breeze used to go right thru me
with the Dome...WHAT Breeze...(not actually true but very very very
little ...

Set up time....(my SCT is a Go to scope...) I initially set it up in
September and I put it in hibernation when I shut down...I have NOT
had to align it since... (tweak it yes..full alignment? No...)

So set up is now a 10 second "job"... turn on the 12 V power, open the
shutter and WAIT until my Computer fires up..."winders" sure is
slow..takes 1-2 minutes for the computer to come alive...

Shut down is much faster...5 seconds to park the scope,, and put it
into hibernation until I use it agian...

NO Pier? well actually I will not install my pier until the spring..
.. Have a 3 foot in diameter tree trun under my observatory...that has
to be "destroyed"... But my observatory is really like a free standing
deck..with the floor 7 foot off the ground... I just built a 5x5 foot
second deck under the floor of my observatory... tossed the tripod and
set a 4 inch in dia x 60 inch tall portable pier on that lower
deck.....cut a 5 inch hole in the center of the observatory floor and
ran the portable pier up into the observatory...Thus the scope and
pier are 100 percent isolated from the observatory ...I can do jumping
jacks inthe observatory and the object inthe scope does not move
PERIOD...

The 4 inch portable pier is NOT really big enough however since it
will "shake..rattle..and roll" if I smack the scope...takes 3-4
seconds to settle down...which I can live with for visual this
winter...

Key for me was just isolating the scope and pier from the building...

YES...it was well worth the Effort and the cost like I said was NOT
great...mine is not automated and to be honest I do not know if I will
ever bother ... I can rotate the 8 foot dia dome with one finger...

Yes I used an Explora-dome..

Bob G.