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Main
Date: 31 Jul 2006 12:13:59
From: callisto
Subject: Green Laser Pointers and Star Parties
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I have back problems when bending over my 8 inch dobsonian to use a
standard straight through finder or a telrad. My solution, which works
well for me, is to use a green laser pointer and a right angle, correct
reading 9X finder (where I can look down). I then use an adjustable
chair to bring me to the right height for star hopping, if necessary.
Generally I can get my object using only the GLP with occasional help
from my right angle finder.
This setup is fine for two-hour star parties at schools or to show
things to friends. But I would like to use this system at a major star
party such as those listed in Sky and Telescope. However, when
checking websites for such star parties they indicate quite clearly
that GLPs are not welcome. Can anyone tell me where I could get info
on star parties where GLPs are permitted?
It seems to me that with the growing popularity of GLPs and their great
usefulness for pointing out stars, constellations, asterisms, mythology
etc, that major star parties could provide a field close to the main
observing field where GLPs can be used. This would mean that there
would be no problems on the main field where they might annoy serious
amateurs. Also they would not interfere with astrophotography.
Any comments would be appreciated.
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Date: 31 Jul 2006 18:19:08
From: Rich
Subject: Re: Green Laser Pointers and Star Parties
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callisto wrote:
> I have back problems when bending over my 8 inch dobsonian to use a
> standard straight through finder or a telrad. My solution, which works
> well for me, is to use a green laser pointer and a right angle, correct
> reading 9X finder (where I can look down). I then use an adjustable
> chair to bring me to the right height for star hopping, if necessary.
> Generally I can get my object using only the GLP with occasional help
> from my right angle finder.
>
> This setup is fine for two-hour star parties at schools or to show
> things to friends. But I would like to use this system at a major star
> party such as those listed in Sky and Telescope. However, when
> checking websites for such star parties they indicate quite clearly
> that GLPs are not welcome. Can anyone tell me where I could get info
> on star parties where GLPs are permitted?
>
> It seems to me that with the growing popularity of GLPs and their great
> usefulness for pointing out stars, constellations, asterisms, mythology
> etc, that major star parties could provide a field close to the main
> observing field where GLPs can be used. This would mean that there
> would be no problems on the main field where they might annoy serious
> amateurs. Also they would not interfere with astrophotography.
>
> Any comments would be appreciated.
Build a Springfield mounting?
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Date: 31 Jul 2006 20:17:46
From: David Knisely
Subject: Re: Green Laser Pointers and Star Parties
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At the Nebraska Star Party, we haven't yet banned the green laser
pointers, but we do discourage their use. They do tend to get pointed
at things other than the sky on more than one occasion, and this can
cause some problems. We do use one when Lorri May is doing her
constellation talks for the Beginners Field School evening session as
well as during the public viewing session on the last day of NSP, but
otherwise, they aren't used very much. I did "cheat" a little early one
morning around 4 a.m. when I couldn't point out the precise location of
M76 to a Field School attendee (too late of a night). To save time, I
just slewed the NexStar over to M76 and pointed a green laser pointer
into the finderscope's eyepiece. Voila!, the beam went right to the
spot where M76 lay! Otherwise, I usually just use a Telrad to show
people where to look, as it doesn't disturb anyone else. Laser pointers
are useful devices, but their potential for abuse is also something to
keep in mind. When in doubt, the best rule is probably "don't use the
pointer". Clear skies to you.
--
David W. Knisely KA0CZC@navix.net
Prairie Astronomy Club: http://www.prairieastronomyclub.org
Hyde Memorial Observatory: http://www.hydeobservatory.info/
**********************************************
* Attend the 13th Annual NEBRASKA STAR PARTY *
* July 23-28, 2006, Merritt Reservoir *
* http://www.NebraskaStarParty.org *
**********************************************
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Date: 31 Jul 2006 17:13:59
From: Ed
Subject: Re: Green Laser Pointers and Star Parties
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Right on Rod!!!:)
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Date: 31 Jul 2006 16:31:48
From: RMOLLISE
Subject: Re: Green Laser Pointers and Star Parties
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Ioannis wrote:
> Yeah, I know. Because you are a psychopath.
>
Oriole is just a bird-brained loon...give him the air. ;-)
Peace,
Rod Mollise
Author of:
Choosing and Using a Schmidt Cassegrain Telescope
and
The Urban Astronomer's Guide
<http://skywatch.brainiac.com/astroland >
The Annual SCT User Imaging Contest is Underway!
<http://www.rothritter.com/contest/2006/ >
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Date: 31 Jul 2006 16:29:40
From: RMOLLISE
Subject: Re: Green Laser Pointers and Star Parties
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Chris L Peterson wrote:
> We've never had problems. We have imagers, and AFAIK nobody has ever had
> an image messed up (which is hardly surprising).
>
Hi Chris:
I have nothing agains GLPs per se, if they are used in an adult,
responsible fashion (though in my experience they rarely are). If y'all
are happy with them, more power to ya...but I...well...call me a
Luddite or what-you-will...I just don't like 'em at dark sites.
Peace,
Rod Mollise
Author of:
Choosing and Using a Schmidt Cassegrain Telescope
and
The Urban Astronomer's Guide
<http://skywatch.brainiac.com/astroland >
The Annual SCT User Imaging Contest is Underway!
<http://www.rothritter.com/contest/2006/ >
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Date: 31 Jul 2006 23:39:48
From: Chris L Peterson
Subject: Re: Green Laser Pointers and Star Parties
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On 31 Jul 2006 16:29:40 -0700, "RMOLLISE" <rmollise@hotmail.com > wrote:
>I have nothing agains GLPs per se, if they are used in an adult,
>responsible fashion (though in my experience they rarely are). If y'all
>are happy with them, more power to ya...but I...well...call me a
>Luddite or what-you-will...I just don't like 'em at dark sites.
Well, our skies are also very transparent; the lasers don't really show
up unless you are quite close to them. So there is little interference.
Also, our size is such that people really do follow the rules (we ask
that only adults handle GLPs). We have had the occasional accident with
headlights getting turned on, which of course causes more harm than a
GLP can. But we've got somebody armed with a huge squirt gun who makes
sure there are no repeat offenders!
_________________________________________________
Chris L Peterson
Cloudbait Observatory
http://www.cloudbait.com
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Date: 31 Jul 2006 13:17:49
From: oriel36
Subject: Re: Green Laser Pointers and Star Parties
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Ioannis wrote:
> "RMOLLISE" <rmollise@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1154374248.706735.105120@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> [snip]
>
> > It's also been my experience that many green laser owners just can't
> > keep the damned things pointed at the sky; they MUST use them to
> > illuminate the treeline across the field, etc., etc. This is for sure
> > distracting...you can't help but wonder when the goober with the laser
> > pointer is going to shine it straight into your eyes.
> [snip]
>
> It can get worse: A REAL goober, would go shine the little thingy down the
> tube of the party's largest dobsonian, while the owner is viewing the sky
> unsuspected.
>
> > Peace,
> > Rod Mollise
> --
> Ioannis
It is a hobby,is'nt it,a harmless photographic hobby for those who
never had a sense of the majestic astronomical cycles or the scale of
the solar system let alone the stellar galactic islands.The
paraphernalia of your hobby is all that counts and the celestial peep
show afforded by the Ra/Dec system.
I witness the loss or the temporary suspension of a astronomical
heritage based on a single terrible maneuver by Newton which blots out
the work of many great men from view and for what !,that spoilt
children who never made the transition to heliocentric astronomy
substitute it with making objects appear bigger.
That single Newtonian maneuver which has now become dominant is a
result of the absence of astronomers and the really fragile nature
which involves the transition to heliocentric astronomy.The transition
to heliocentric astronomy is now made easy through time lapse footage
of the motion of the outer planets determed from an orbitally moving
Earth and demolishing the Newtonian mutation in an instant .
Here is the correct way to approach the observed plotted data and the
time lapse footage of Jupiter and Saturn against the Earth's orbital
motion -
http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/image/0112/jupsatloop_tezel.jpg
http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/image/0112/JuSa2000_tezel.gif
The correct statement is -
Against the stellar background,the motion of the planets appears
sometime direct,sometimes stationary and sometimes in retrograde but
from an orbitally moving Earth,planetary heliocentric motion is seen
direct.
The destructive Newtonian mutation is thus -
"For to the earth planetary motions appear sometimes direct, sometimes
stationary, nay, and sometimes retrograde. But from the sun they are
always seen direct,"NEWTON
Suck your thumb,killfile me,plonk to your heart's content for these
things mean nothing,what does concern me is that I know there are
people with enough intuitive intelligence to work out why the Newtonian
mutation is destructive on many counts and especially how those moving
images of Saturn and Jupiter allow a person to make the transition to
the heliocentric astronomy of Copernicus,Kepler and Roemer.
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Date: 31 Jul 2006 23:37:25
From: Ioannis
Subject: Re: Green Laser Pointers and Star Parties
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"oriel36" <geraldkelleher@yahoo.com > wrote in message
news:1154377069.663619.288170@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
[snip]
> Suck your thumb,killfile me,plonk to your heart's content for these
> things mean nothing
Yeah, I know. Because you are a psychopath.
> what does concern me
What SHOULD concern you is to take your medicine if you want to be half
coherent.
--
Ioannis
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Date: 01 Aug 2006 08:49:09
From: Otherside
Subject: Re: Green Laser Pointers and Star Parties
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"oriel36" <geraldkelleher@yahoo.com > wrote in message
news:1154377069.663619.288170@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
>
> Suck your thumb,killfile me,plonk to your heart's content for these
> things mean nothing,what does concern me is that I know there are
> people with enough intuitive intelligence to work out why the Newtonian
> mutation is destructive on many counts and especially how those moving
> images of Saturn and Jupiter allow a person to make the transition to
> the heliocentric astronomy of Copernicus,Kepler and Roemer.
>
Yeah, but the Earth is still flat.
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Date: 01 Aug 2006 08:15:04
From: Shawn Curry
Subject: Re: Green Laser Pointers and Star Parties
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Otherside wrote:
> "oriel36" <geraldkelleher@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:1154377069.663619.288170@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
>
>>Suck your thumb,killfile me,plonk to your heart's content for these
>>things mean nothing,what does concern me is that I know there are
>>people with enough intuitive intelligence to work out why the Newtonian
>>mutation is destructive on many counts and especially how those moving
>>images of Saturn and Jupiter allow a person to make the transition to
>>the heliocentric astronomy of Copernicus,Kepler and Roemer.
>>
>
>
>
> Yeah, but the Earth is still flat.
>
>
Yeah right, come mow my lawn and say that! ;-)
Shawn
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Date: 31 Jul 2006 20:16:38
From: Chris L Peterson
Subject: Re: Green Laser Pointers and Star Parties
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On 31 Jul 2006 12:13:59 -0700, "callisto" <pjgrim@columbus.rr.com >
wrote:
>This setup is fine for two-hour star parties at schools or to show
>things to friends. But I would like to use this system at a major star
>party such as those listed in Sky and Telescope. However, when
>checking websites for such star parties they indicate quite clearly
>that GLPs are not welcome. Can anyone tell me where I could get info
>on star parties where GLPs are permitted?
They are more than welcome at Rocky Mountain Star Stare in Colorado
(www.rmss.org) . Unfortunately, we've already had our 2006 event, but
join us next year. Good dark skies and a comfortable size- about 300
people.
>It seems to me that with the growing popularity of GLPs and their great
>usefulness for pointing out stars, constellations, asterisms, mythology
>etc, that major star parties could provide a field close to the main
>observing field where GLPs can be used. This would mean that there
>would be no problems on the main field where they might annoy serious
>amateurs. Also they would not interfere with astrophotography.
We've never had problems. We have imagers, and AFAIK nobody has ever had
an image messed up (which is hardly surprising).
_________________________________________________
Chris L Peterson
Cloudbait Observatory
http://www.cloudbait.com
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Date: 31 Jul 2006 12:30:48
From: RMOLLISE
Subject: Re: Green Laser Pointers and Star Parties
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callisto wrote:
> I have back problems when bending over my 8 inch dobsonian to use a
> standard straight through finder or a telrad. My solution, which works
> well for me, is to use a green laser pointer and a right angle
You're not likely to find a major (or even regional) star party where
green lasers are welcome. You'll even be discouraged from using them at
most club dark sites.
Why? Some people believe they could ruin astrophotography exposures.
This doesn't seem overly likely, but that is the perception.
Mostly, though, people just find them distracting. While observers
across the field probably won't see your beam, those closer to being
on-axis will, and this may disturb them or spoil their enjoyment of a
pristine sky.
It's also been my experience that many green laser owners just can't
keep the damned things pointed at the sky; they MUST use them to
illuminate the treeline across the field, etc., etc. This is for sure
distracting...you can't help but wonder when the goober with the laser
pointer is going to shine it straight into your eyes.
If you're observing in your backyard or alone at a dark site, by all
means use your laser (just don't aim it at any black helicopters ;-)).
If you're at a star party, however, forget it. _Knowing that it might
spoil some of your fellow observers' enjoyment of the night sky should
be enough to encourage you to leave it at home_. I own a green laser
pointer that I use to very good effect with my astronomy students, but
I never, ever take it to a dark site.
There are other pointing solutions you can use, including a Telrad
equipped with a right angle attachment, digital setting circles, or a
go-to mount.
Peace,
Rod Mollise
Author of _Choosing and Using a Schmidt Cassegrain Telescope_
and
_The Urban Astronomer's Guide_
<http://skywatch.brainiac.com/astroland/index.htm >
Like SCTs and MCTs?
Check-out sct-user, the mailing list for CAT fanciers:
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sct-user >
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Date: 31 Jul 2006 22:27:37
From: Alan French
Subject: Re: Green Laser Pointers and Star Parties
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"RMOLLISE" <rmollise@hotmail.com > wrote in message
news:1154374248.706735.105120@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> [SNIP]
> It's also been my experience that many green laser owners just can't
> keep the damned things pointed at the sky; they MUST use them to
> illuminate the treeline across the field, etc., etc. This is for sure
> distracting...you can't help but wonder when the goober with the laser
> pointer is going to shine it straight into your eyes.
> [SNIP]
That's been my experience too. The year before they were banned at WSP lots
of folks were busy playing with them on a cloudy night, and I came close to
getting one in the face. It was someone old enough and, I thought, wise
enough to know better too.
Clear skies, Alan
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Date: 31 Jul 2006 22:44:59
From: Ioannis
Subject: Re: Green Laser Pointers and Star Parties
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"RMOLLISE" <rmollise@hotmail.com > wrote in message
news:1154374248.706735.105120@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
[snip]
> It's also been my experience that many green laser owners just can't
> keep the damned things pointed at the sky; they MUST use them to
> illuminate the treeline across the field, etc., etc. This is for sure
> distracting...you can't help but wonder when the goober with the laser
> pointer is going to shine it straight into your eyes.
[snip]
It can get worse: A REAL goober, would go shine the little thingy down the
tube of the party's largest dobsonian, while the owner is viewing the sky
unsuspected.
> Peace,
> Rod Mollise
--
Ioannis
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Date: 01 Aug 2006 02:55:18
From: oriel36
Subject: Re: Green Laser Pointers and Star Parties
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Ioannis wrote:
> "oriel36" <geraldkelleher@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:1154377069.663619.288170@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> [snip]
>
> > Suck your thumb,killfile me,plonk to your heart's content for these
> > things mean nothing
>
> Yeah, I know. Because you are a psychopath.
>
> > what does concern me
>
> What SHOULD concern you is to take your medicine if you want to be half
> coherent.
> --
> Ioannis
Do you not like the original Copernican reasoning that the observed
motions of the planets against the stellar background are seen to move
in one direction,stop and go backwards and then move forward again and
the the resolution,seen from an orbitally moving Earth is that
planetary heliocentric motion is seen directly -
http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/image/0112/JuSa2000_tezel.gif
Look and see the Earth overtaking the slower moving outer planets !,how
brilliant that is and how enjoyable.Pity none of you can do so as you
follow the incompetent Newtonian mutation of this gorgeous Copernican
discovery -
"For to the earth planetary motions appear sometimes direct, sometimes
stationary, nay, and sometimes retrograde. But from the sun they are
always seen direct,"NEWTON
Mumble out insults all you wish,that you celestial peeping toms have a
strangelehold on heliocentricity astronomy through your cretinous
celestial sphere universe .There is no medication for stupidity and
little point in insulting you,you do it to yourself quite nicely.I do
mind that people no better than you present themselves as authorities
on astronomy thereby preventing the wider public from appreciating the
original Copernican reasoning and the later refinements.
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Date: 01 Aug 2006 02:41:40
From: oriel36
Subject: Re: Green Laser Pointers and Star Parties
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Otherside wrote:
> "oriel36" <geraldkelleher@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:1154377069.663619.288170@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> >
> > Suck your thumb,killfile me,plonk to your heart's content for these
> > things mean nothing,what does concern me is that I know there are
> > people with enough intuitive intelligence to work out why the Newtonian
> > mutation is destructive on many counts and especially how those moving
> > images of Saturn and Jupiter allow a person to make the transition to
> > the heliocentric astronomy of Copernicus,Kepler and Roemer.
> >
>
>
> Yeah, but the Earth is still flat.
It only means that you cannot give the correct value for the most
fundamental rotation of all - the pace of a clock hand in sync with
axial rotation at 15 degrees per hour.
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