Genesis-The terraforming event: 1:6-9 the Expanse (atmoshere)and

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Date: 10 Oct 2006 00:47:34
From: Gilbertus Albans
Subject: Genesis-The terraforming event: 1:6-9 the Expanse (atmoshere)and

In the previous thread it was discussed the earth was a water planet
(gen 1:2), and was being examined. A decision then was made to terraform
the planet. It seems that water was important. We learned the Planet was
cover by water because light did not reach the land surface under the
water. It seems the terraformers found a way to do this eventually and
it is explained from verse 6-

6 And God went on to say: “Let an expanse come to be in between the
waters and let a dividing occur between the waters and the waters.”
7 Then God proceeded to make the expanse and to make a division between
the waters that should be beneath the expanse and the waters that should
be above the expanse. And it came to be so. 8 And God began to call the
expanse Heaven. And there came to be evening and there came to be
morning, a second day.

9 And God went on to say: “Let the waters under the heavens be brought
together into one place and let the dry land appear.” And it came to be
so. 10 And God began calling the dry land Earth, but the bringing
together of the waters he called Seas.

Later the record speaks of luminaries appearing in “the expanse of the
heavens,” and still later of flying creatures flying over the earth
“upon the face of the expanse of the heavens.”—Ge 1:14, 15, 17, 20.

The Greek Septuagint used the word ste·re′o·ma (meaning “a firm and
solid structure”) to translate the Hebrew ra·qi′a‛, and the Latin
Vulgate used the Latin term firmamentum, which also conveys the idea of
something solid and firm. The King James Version, the Revised Standard
Version, and many others follow suit in translating ra·qi′a‛ by the word
“firmament.” However, in its marginal reading the King James Version
gives the alternate reading “expansion,” and the American Standard
Version gives “expanse” in its footnote. Other translations support such
rendering—“expanse” (Ro; Fn; Yg; An; NW); “expansión” (VM [Spanish]);
“étendue [extent or expanse]” (Segond; Ostervald [French]).

Some endeavor to show that the ancient Hebrew concept of the universe
included the idea of a solid vault arched over the earth, with sluice
holes through which rain could enter and with the stars fixed within
this solid vault, diagrams of such concept appearing in Bible
dictionaries and some Bible translations. Commenting on this attitude,
The International Standard Bible Encyclopaedia states: “But this
assumption is in reality based more upon the ideas prevalent in Europe
during the Dark Ages than upon any actual statements in the O[ld]
T[estament].”—Edited by J. Orr, 1960, Vol. I, p. 314.

While it is true that the root word (ra·qa‛′) from which ra·qi′a‛ is
drawn is regularly used in the sense of “beating out” something solid,
whether by hand, by foot, or by any instrument (compare Ex 39:3; Eze
6:11), in some cases it is not sound reasoning to rule out a figurative
use of the word. Thus at Job 37:18 Elihu asks concerning God: “With him
can you beat out [tar·qi′a‛] the skies hard like a molten mirror?” That
the literal beating out of some solid celestial vault is not meant can
be seen from the fact that the word “skies” here comes from a word
(sha′chaq) also rendered “film of dust” or “clouds” (Isa 40:15; Ps
18:11), and in view of the nebulous quality of that which is ‘beaten
out,’ it is clear that the Bible writer is only figuratively comparing
the skies to a metal mirror whose burnished face gives off a bright
reflection.—Compare Da 12:3.

So, too, with the “expanse” produced on the second creative “day,” no
solid substance is described as being beaten out but, rather, the
creation of an open space, or division, between the waters covering the
earth and other waters above the earth. It thus describes the formation
of the atmospheric expanse surrounding the earth and indicates that at
one time there was no clear division or open space but that the entire
globe was previously enveloped in water vapor. This also accords with
scientific reasoning on the early stages of the planet’s formation and
the view that at one time all of earth’s water existed in the form of
atmospheric vapor because of the extreme heat of the earth’s surface at
that point.

That the Hebrew writers of the Bible did not conceive of the sky as
originally formed of burnished metal is evident from the warning given
through Moses to Israel that, in the event of their disobedience to God,
“Your skies that are over your head must also become copper, and the
earth that is beneath you iron,” thus metaphorically describing the
effects of intense heat and severe drought upon the skies and land of
Israel.—De 28:23, 24.

Similarly, it is obvious that the ancient Hebrews held no pagan concept
as to the existence of literal “windows” in the arch of the sky through
which earth’s rain descended. Very accurately and scientifically the
writer of Job quotes Elihu in describing the process by which rain
clouds are formed when he states, at Job 36:27, 28: “For he draws up the
drops of water; they filter as rain for his mist, so that the clouds
[shecha·qim′] trickle, they drip upon mankind abundantly.” Likewise, the
expression “floodgates [’arub·both′] of the heavens” clearly manifests a
figurative expression.—Compare Ge 7:11; 2Ki 7:1, 2, 19; Mal 3:10; see
also Pr 3:20; Isa 5:6; 45:8; Jer 10:13.

Though the formation of the expanse, or atmosphere, surrounding earth
did not involve a ‘beating out’ of something as solid as some metallic
substance, yet it should be remembered that the gaseous mixture forming
earth’s atmosphere is just as real as land and water and has weight in
itself (in addition to carrying water and innumerable particles of solid
materials, such as dust). The weight of all the air surrounding earth is
estimated at more than 5,200,000,000,000,000 metric tons. (The World
Book Encyclopedia, 1987, Vol. 1, p. 156) Air pressure at sea level runs
about 1 kg per sq cm (15 lb per sq in.). It also exercises resistance so
that most meteors hitting the immense jacket of air surrounding the
earth are burned up by the friction created by the atmosphere. Thus the
force implied in the Hebrew word ra·qi′a‛ is certainly in harmony with
the known facts.

Date: 09 Oct 2006 20:45:43
From: Santolina chamaecyparissus
Subject: Re: Genesis-The terraforming event: 1:6-9 the Expanse (atmoshere)and Dry land

Gilbertus Albans wrote:
> In the previous thread it was discussed the earth was a water planet
> (gen 1:2), and was being examined. A decision then was made to terraform
> the planet.

As a result of this post I have decided to accept Jesus Christ as my
personal Lord and Saviour.

Date: 10 Oct 2006 09:23:43
From: Gilbertus Albans
Subject: Re: Genesis-The terraforming event: 1:6-9 the Expanse (atmoshere)and

Santolina chamaecyparissus wrote:
> Gilbertus Albans wrote:
>> In the previous thread it was discussed the earth was a water planet
>> (gen 1:2), and was being examined. A decision then was made to terraform
>> the planet.
>
> As a result of this post I have decided to accept Jesus Christ as my
> personal Lord and Saviour.
>

which is off topic.

Date: 10 Oct 2006 14:28:45
From: Flushing Express
Subject: Re: Genesis-The terraforming event: 1:6-9 the Expanse (atmoshere)and Dry land

"Santolina chamaecyparissus" <santolina@juno.com > wrote in message
news:1160451943.332756.158370@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com...
>
> Gilbertus Albans wrote:
>> In the previous thread it was discussed the earth was a water planet
>> (gen 1:2), and was being examined. A decision then was made to terraform
>> the planet.
>
> As a result of this post I have decided to accept Jesus Christ as my
> personal Lord and Saviour.

But only if you join his unhappy little group of Watchtower bible and rag
sellers...........

JWs get time on their time cards for preaching to you even though you don't
realize it until too late.

Date: 09 Oct 2006 20:34:44
From: Eramus-Metal-Ak47
Subject: Re: Genesis-The terraforming event: 1:6-9 the Expanse (atmoshere)and Dry land

Carlos Trevino wrote:
> "Gilbertus Albans" <primemenstat@world.net> wrote in message
> news:HBDWg.18034$wE5.3973@trnddc02...
> > Carlos Trevino wrote:
> >
> >> So the first time the earth was cover with water it was more of a fog?
> >> Interesting.
> >>
> > Seems to be water. However the terraforming event would produce fog.
>
> Makes sense, thanks for sharing your ideas.
> --
> Carlos Trevino

I am surprise at how so many have their mind brainwashed to the point
that when they read the word "bible" or "god" the assume the hread is
of a religious nature.

Date: 10 Oct 2006 03:43:19
From: Carlos Trevino
Subject: Re: Genesis-The terraforming event: 1:6-9 the Expanse (atmoshere)and Dry land

"Eramus-Metal-Ak47" <darth.gantz@gmail.com > wrote in message
news:1160451284.351306.171050@k70g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
> Carlos Trevino wrote:
>> "Gilbertus Albans" <primemenstat@world.net> wrote in message
>> news:HBDWg.18034$wE5.3973@trnddc02...
>> > Carlos Trevino wrote:
>> >
>> >> So the first time the earth was cover with water it was more of a fog?
>> >> Interesting.
>> >>
>> > Seems to be water. However the terraforming event would produce fog.
>>
>> Makes sense, thanks for sharing your ideas.
>> --
>> Carlos Trevino
>
>
> I am surprise at how so many have their mind brainwashed to the point
> that when they read the word "bible" or "god" the assume the hread is
> of a religious nature.
>

We are all brain washed to beleive what we want to believe by our own heart.
--
Carlos Trevino
---------------------------------------------------
"There is a flaw in our reasoning believing we are right, so say I."

Date: 10 Oct 2006 03:38:03
From: Gilbertus Albans
Subject: Re: Genesis-The terraforming event: 1:6-9 the Expanse (atmoshere)and

Eramus-Metal-Ak47 wrote:
> Carlos Trevino wrote:
>> "Gilbertus Albans" <primemenstat@world.net> wrote in message
>> news:HBDWg.18034$wE5.3973@trnddc02...
>>> Carlos Trevino wrote:
>>>
>>>> So the first time the earth was cover with water it was more of a fog?
>>>> Interesting.
>>>>
>>> Seems to be water. However the terraforming event would produce fog.
>> Makes sense, thanks for sharing your ideas.
>> --
>> Carlos Trevino
>
>
> I am surprise at how so many have their mind brainwashed to the point
> that when they read the word "bible" or "god" the assume the hread is
> of a religious nature.
>

12 years of indrination in the american school system does that. It
kill objectivity and focus. No wonder no good science fiction is written
today.

Date: 10 Oct 2006 10:35:30
From: Elroy Willis
Subject: Re: Genesis-The terraforming event: 1:6-9 the Expanse (atmoshere)and Dry land

Gilbertus Albans <primemenstat@world.net > wrote in alt.atheism

> 12 years of indrination in the american school system does that. It
> kill objectivity and focus.

Jabriol, is that you?

--
Elroy Willis
www.elroysemporium.com

Date: 10 Oct 2006 16:59:31
From: =?iso-8859-1?B?fiBT5GJs6yB+?=
Subject: Re: Genesis-The terraforming event: 1:6-9 the Expanse (atmoshere)and Dry land

"Elroy Willis" <elroywillis@swbell.net > wrote in message
news:1qtmi25ckd5v3if1kp45c0e3p0u3bdpsak@4ax.com...
> Gilbertus Albans <primemenstat@world.net> wrote in alt.atheism
>
>> 12 years of indrination in the american school system does that. It
>> kill objectivity and focus.
>
> Jabriol, is that you?
>
> --
> Elroy Willis
> www.elroysemporium.com

It's him. He's still beating the American School system to death. One
wonders why the Watchtower Society doesn't open their own schools to keep
their children ignorant and backward. Too cheap.... their money goes to
purchase ever more high priced New York real estate. ;-)
--
SA...........
How did we get here?
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/homs/

Date: 10 Oct 2006 16:56:53
From: Flushing Express
Subject: Re: Genesis-The terraforming event: 1:6-9 the Expanse (atmoshere)and Dry land

Date: 11 Oct 2006 23:34:11
From: B. R. Robertson
Subject: Re: Genesis-The terraforming event: 1:6-9 the Expanse (atmoshere)and Dry land

"Eramus-Metal-Ak47" aka JABRIOL<darth.gantz@gmail.com > wrote in message
news:1160451284.351306.171050@k70g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
...is the HOMOCIDAL netstalking Jehovahs Witness Antonio L Santana aka
jabriol and 100s of other nyms to hide behind from the Camden NJ Police. He
attends the Spanish speaking congragation of Jehovahs Witnesses in Camden
NJ.

Call the Police and tell them your victim has your messages archived where
you tried to have her murdered. Here's one of your messages Antonio. You
were even helped by another vicious Jehovahs Witness to find your victim to
better terrorize the old couple. You know it's true that's why you do
nothing about their accusations you want them murdered. What a fine
"WITNESS" you and your JW friend give those on usenet.

Solicitation to MURDER by Jehovahs Witness Antonio L Santana
Camden NJ
----- Original Message -----
From: "Zhavriol" aka Jabriol <zodriol@gmail.com >
Antonio L Santana/Camden NJ cong of Jehovah's Witnesses.
Subject: Carol Adamo Gulley -she is tired of living, please
help her (die)

(This sounds like solicitation to murder someone!)

> Maybe they are people out there who wants you to rejoined your loved
> departed ones.
> Let me help them find you so they can help you out:
> Carolyn Adamo Gulley XXXX XXXX XXXXX
< XXXXXXX XXXX XXXXXXXX

> (victim's phone #, address, maps to her home supplied by Mr. Santana
> snipped).

Mr. Antonio L Santana then opines someone will break in their home in the
middle
of the night and slit her throat or kill her by suffocation.

Date: 09 Oct 2006 19:06:53
From: Eramus-Metal-Ak47
Subject: Re: Genesis-The terraforming event: 1:6-9 the Expanse (atmoshere)and Dry land

Shawn wrote:
> Gilbertus Albans wrote:
>
> mythology, snipped
>
> This shouldn't be cross-posted to sci. groups.

Did you read the article or.. you saw the word "bible" and decided it
has nothing to do with science, and never made the attempt to verified
if it was on topic or not?

Date: 09 Oct 2006 19:34:41
From: Starlord
Subject: Re: Genesis-The terraforming event: 1:6-9 the Expanse (atmoshere)and Dry land

It's totaly off topic for S.A.A.

--
The Lone Sidewalk Astronomer of Rosamond

Telescope Buyers FAQ
http://home.inreach.com/starlord
Sidewalk Astronomy
www.sidewalkastronomy.info
The Church of Eternity
http://home.inreach.com/starlord/church/Eternity.html

"Eramus-Metal-Ak47" <darth.gantz@gmail.com > wrote in message
news:1160446013.903334.150650@c28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>

Date: 10 Oct 2006 10:58:07
From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?R=F6berta_M=E4rie_Fern=E4ndez?=
Subject: Re: Genesis-The terraforming event: TROLL ALERT: Eramus-Metal-Ak47 is nym-shifting JABRIOL

"Eramus-Metal-Ak47" <darth.gantz@gmail.com > wrote in message
news:1160446013.903334.150650@c28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>
> Shawn wrote:
>> Gilbertus Albans wrote:
>>
>> mythology, snipped
>>
>> This shouldn't be cross-posted to sci. groups.
>
> Did you read the article or.. you saw the word "bible" and decided it
> has nothing to do with science, and never made the attempt to verified
> if it was on topic or not?
>

Date: 10 Oct 2006 02:04:48
From: Carlos Trevino
Subject: Re: Genesis-The terraforming event: 1:6-9 the Expanse (atmoshere)and Dry land

"Gilbertus Albans" <primemenstat@world.net > wrote in message
news:G4CWg.2423$e65.720@trnddc05...
> In the previous thread it was discussed the earth was a water planet (gen
> 1:2), and was being examined. A decision then was made to terraform the
> planet. It seems that water was important. We learned the Planet was cover
> by water because light did not reach the land surface under the water. It
> seems the terraformers found a way to do this eventually and it is
> explained from verse 6-
>
>
> 6 And God went on to say: "Let an expanse come to be in between the waters
> and let a dividing occur between the waters and the waters." 7 Then God
> proceeded to make the expanse and to make a division between the waters
> that should be beneath the expanse and the waters that should be above the
> expanse. And it came to be so. 8 And God began to call the expanse Heaven.
> And there came to be evening and there came to be morning, a second day.
>
> 9 And God went on to say: "Let the waters under the heavens be brought
> together into one place and let the dry land appear." And it came to be
> so. 10 And God began calling the dry land Earth, but the bringing together
> of the waters he called Seas.
>
> Later the record speaks of luminaries appearing in "the expanse of the
> heavens," and still later of flying creatures flying over the earth "upon
> the face of the expanse of the heavens."-Ge 1:14, 15, 17, 20.
>
> The Greek Septuagint used the word ste�re'o�ma (meaning "a firm and solid
> structure") to translate the Hebrew ra�qi'a?, and the Latin Vulgate used
> the Latin term firmamentum, which also conveys the idea of something solid
> and firm. The King James Version, the Revised Standard Version, and many
> others follow suit in translating ra�qi'a? by the word "firmament."
> However, in its marginal reading the King James Version gives the
> alternate reading "expansion," and the American Standard Version gives
> "expanse" in its footnote. Other translations support such rendering-"expanse"
> (Ro; Fn; Yg; An; NW); "expansi�n" (VM [Spanish]); "�tendue [extent or
> expanse]" (Segond; Ostervald [French]).
>
> Some endeavor to show that the ancient Hebrew concept of the universe
> included the idea of a solid vault arched over the earth, with sluice
> holes through which rain could enter and with the stars fixed within this
> solid vault, diagrams of such concept appearing in Bible dictionaries and
> some Bible translations. Commenting on this attitude, The International
> Standard Bible Encyclopaedia states: "But this assumption is in reality
> based more upon the ideas prevalent in Europe during the Dark Ages than
> upon any actual statements in the O[ld] T[estament]."-Edited by J. Orr,
> 1960, Vol. I, p. 314.
>
> While it is true that the root word (ra�qa?') from which ra�qi'a? is drawn
> is regularly used in the sense of "beating out" something solid, whether
> by hand, by foot, or by any instrument (compare Ex 39:3; Eze 6:11), in
> some cases it is not sound reasoning to rule out a figurative use of the
> word. Thus at Job 37:18 Elihu asks concerning God: "With him can you beat
> out [tar�qi'a?] the skies hard like a molten mirror?" That the literal
> beating out of some solid celestial vault is not meant can be seen from
> the fact that the word "skies" here comes from a word (sha'chaq) also
> rendered "film of dust" or "clouds" (Isa 40:15; Ps 18:11), and in view of
> the nebulous quality of that which is 'beaten out,' it is clear that the
> Bible writer is only figuratively comparing the skies to a metal mirror
> whose burnished face gives off a bright reflection.-Compare Da 12:3.
>
> So, too, with the "expanse" produced on the second creative "day," no
> solid substance is described as being beaten out but, rather, the creation
> of an open space, or division, between the waters covering the earth and
> other waters above the earth. It thus describes the formation of the
> atmospheric expanse surrounding the earth and indicates that at one time
> there was no clear division or open space but that the entire globe was
> previously enveloped in water vapor. This also accords with scientific
> reasoning on the early stages of the planet's formation and the view that
> at one time all of earth's water existed in the form of atmospheric vapor
> because of the extreme heat of the earth's surface at that point.
>
> That the Hebrew writers of the Bible did not conceive of the sky as
> originally formed of burnished metal is evident from the warning given
> through Moses to Israel that, in the event of their disobedience to God,
> "Your skies that are over your head must also become copper, and the earth
> that is beneath you iron," thus metaphorically describing the effects of
> intense heat and severe drought upon the skies and land of Israel.-De
> 28:23, 24.
>
> Similarly, it is obvious that the ancient Hebrews held no pagan concept as
> to the existence of literal "windows" in the arch of the sky through which
> earth's rain descended. Very accurately and scientifically the writer of
> Job quotes Elihu in describing the process by which rain clouds are formed
> when he states, at Job 36:27, 28: "For he draws up the drops of water;
> they filter as rain for his mist, so that the clouds [shecha�qim']
> trickle, they drip upon mankind abundantly." Likewise, the expression
> "floodgates ['arub�both'] of the heavens" clearly manifests a figurative
> expression.-Compare Ge 7:11; 2Ki 7:1, 2, 19; Mal 3:10; see also Pr 3:20;
> Isa 5:6; 45:8; Jer 10:13.
>
>
> Though the formation of the expanse, or atmosphere, surrounding earth did
> not involve a 'beating out' of something as solid as some metallic
> substance, yet it should be remembered that the gaseous mixture forming
> earth's atmosphere is just as real as land and water and has weight in
> itself (in addition to carrying water and innumerable particles of solid
> materials, such as dust). The weight of all the air surrounding earth is
> estimated at more than 5,200,000,000,000,000 metric tons. (The World Book
> Encyclopedia, 1987, Vol. 1, p. 156) Air pressure at sea level runs about 1
> kg per sq cm (15 lb per sq in.). It also exercises resistance so that most
> meteors hitting the immense jacket of air surrounding the earth are burned
> up by the friction created by the atmosphere. Thus the force implied in
> the Hebrew word ra�qi'a? is certainly in harmony with the known facts.

So the first time the earth was cover with water it was more of a fog?
Interesting.
--
Carlos Trevino
---------------------------------------------------
"It would be possible to describe everything scientifically, but it would
make no sense; it would be without meaning, as if you described a Beethoven
symphony as a variation of wave pressure." -- Albert Einstein

Date: 10 Oct 2006 02:31:03
From: Gilbertus Albans
Subject: Re: Genesis-The terraforming event: 1:6-9 the Expanse (atmoshere)and

Carlos Trevino wrote:

> So the first time the earth was cover with water it was more of a fog?
> Interesting.
>
Seems to be water. However the terraforming event would produce fog.

Date: 10 Oct 2006 02:38:09
From: Carlos Trevino
Subject: Re: Genesis-The terraforming event: 1:6-9 the Expanse (atmoshere)and Dry land

"Gilbertus Albans" <primemenstat@world.net > wrote in message
news:HBDWg.18034$wE5.3973@trnddc02...
> Carlos Trevino wrote:
>
>> So the first time the earth was cover with water it was more of a fog?
>> Interesting.
>>
> Seems to be water. However the terraforming event would produce fog.

Makes sense, thanks for sharing your ideas.
--
Carlos Trevino
---------------------------------------------------
"It would be possible to describe everything scientifically, but it would
make no sense; it would be without meaning, as if you described a Beethoven
symphony as a variation of wave pressure." -- Albert Einstein

Date: 10 Oct 2006 00:04:58
From: Pastor Kutchie
Subject: Re: Genesis-The terraforming event: 1:6-9 the Expanse (atmoshere)and Dry land

Carlos Trevino wrote:
>
> So the first time the earth was cover with water it was more of a fog?
> Interesting.
> --

"People called Romanes they go the house"?
"It says 'Romans go home'".
"No, it doesn't"....

Date: 09 Oct 2006 23:59:24
From: Pastor Kutchie
Subject: Re: Genesis-The terraforming event: 1:6-9 the Expanse (atmoshere)and Dry land

Gilbertus Albans wrote:
> Pastor Kutchie wrote:
> > Shawn wrote:
> >> Gilbertus Albans wrote:
> >>
> >> mythology, snipped
> >>
> >> This shouldn't be cross-posted to sci. groups.
> >
> > It shouldn't be crossposted to alt.atheism either. Yet another
> > contemptuous troll needs to be made to understand the meaning of the
> > phrase 'Terms of Service'.
> >
>
> You should be familiar with the term "usenet",

Indeed, I am.
> "unmoderated newsgroup"
> and most importantly, the delete button. Next you are gong to say
> atheism isn't a religion.

Google "alt.atheism charter/FAQ". Reporting is a last resort and I
certainy wouldn't do it to anybody who is prepared to argue their case
rather than just preach at us. We do have other forms of excrutiating
tortures for trolls. Welcome to hell.

Oh! and atheism isn't a religion. It's the absence of a belief in any
deities.

Date: 10 Oct 2006 14:25:26
From: Flushing Express
Subject: Re: Genesis-The terraforming event: 1:6-9 the Expanse (atmoshere)and Dry land

"Pastor Kutchie" <user13@heathens.org.uk > wrote in message
news:1160463564.841225.171150@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
>
> Gilbertus Albans wrote:
>> Pastor Kutchie wrote:
>> > Shawn wrote:
>> >> Gilbertus Albans wrote:
>> >>
>> >> mythology, snipped
>> >>
>> >> This shouldn't be cross-posted to sci. groups.
>> >
>> > It shouldn't be crossposted to alt.atheism either. Yet another
>> > contemptuous troll needs to be made to understand the meaning of the
>> > phrase 'Terms of Service'.
>> >
>>
>> You should be familiar with the term "usenet",
>
> Indeed, I am.
>> "unmoderated newsgroup"
>> and most importantly, the delete button. Next you are gong to say
>> atheism isn't a religion.
>
> Google "alt.atheism charter/FAQ". Reporting is a last resort and I
> certainy wouldn't do it to anybody who is prepared to argue their case
> rather than just preach at us. We do have other forms of excrutiating
> tortures for trolls. Welcome to hell.

His ISP Verizon allows all forms of internet and Usenet abuse. He's the
nym-shifting Jehovah's Witness known as JABRIOL.
NNTP-Posting-Host: 71.245.195.93
X-Complaints-To: abuse@verizon.net

> Oh! and atheism isn't a religion. It's the absence of a belief in any
> deities.
>

Date: 10 Oct 2006 14:26:51
From: Flushing Express
Subject: Re: Genesis-The terraforming event: 1:6-9 the Expanse (atmoshere)and Dry land

"Pastor Kutchie" <user13@heathens.org.uk > wrote in message
news:1160463564.841225.171150@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
>
> Gilbertus Albans wrote:
>> Pastor Kutchie wrote:
>> > Shawn wrote:
>> >> Gilbertus Albans wrote:
>> >>
>> >> mythology, snipped
>> >>
>> >> This shouldn't be cross-posted to sci. groups.
>> >
>> > It shouldn't be crossposted to alt.atheism either. Yet another
>> > contemptuous troll needs to be made to understand the meaning of the
>> > phrase 'Terms of Service'.
>> >
>>
>> You should be familiar with the term "usenet",
>
> Indeed, I am.
>> "unmoderated newsgroup"
>> and most importantly, the delete button. Next you are gong to say
>> atheism isn't a religion.
>
> Google "alt.atheism charter/FAQ". Reporting is a last resort and I
> certainy wouldn't do it to anybody who is prepared to argue their case
> rather than just preach at us. We do have other forms of excrutiating
> tortures for trolls. Welcome to hell.
>
> Oh! and atheism isn't a religion. It's the absence of a belief in any
> deities.

The Watchtower Society teaches them it's a religion, not the lack of belief
in gods and goddesses. Anything cross posted from the JW newsgroups is the
same nym shifting troll known as JABRIOL.

Date: 10 Oct 2006 18:58:59
From: Santolina chamaecyparissus
Subject: Re: Genesis-The terraforming event: 1:6-9 the Expanse (atmoshere)and Dry land

Gilbertus Albans wrote:
> Santolina chamaecyparissus wrote:
> > Gilbertus Albans wrote:
> >> Carlos Trevino wrote:
> >>
> >>> So the first time the earth was cover with water it was more of a fog?
> >>> Interesting.
> >>>
> >> Seems to be water. However the terraforming event would produce fog.
> >
> > As a result of THIS post I have decided to accept Jesus Christ as my
> > personal Lord and Saviour.
> >
>
> off topic.

Bitch, I'm not taking it back again. You led me to a personal
relationship with Christ. Deal with it, asshat.

Date: 12 Oct 2006 02:02:38
From: Gilbertus Albans
Subject: Re: Genesis-The terraforming event: 1:6-9 the Expanse (atmoshere)and

Santolina chamaecyparissus wrote:
> Gilbertus Albans wrote:
>> Santolina chamaecyparissus wrote:
>>> Gilbertus Albans wrote:
>>>> Carlos Trevino wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> So the first time the earth was cover with water it was more of a fog?
>>>>> Interesting.
>>>>>
>>>> Seems to be water. However the terraforming event would produce fog.
>>> As a result of THIS post I have decided to accept Jesus Christ as my
>>> personal Lord and Saviour.
>>>
>> off topic.
>
> Bitch, I'm not taking it back again. You led me to a personal
> relationship with Christ. Deal with it, asshat.
>

No I didn't. He who smokes weirds stuff will see weird stuff.

Date: 10 Oct 2006 16:43:01
From: Santolina chamaecyparissus
Subject: Re: Genesis-The terraforming event: 1:6-9 the Expanse (atmoshere)and Dry land

Gilbertus Albans wrote:
> Carlos Trevino wrote:
>
> > So the first time the earth was cover with water it was more of a fog?
> > Interesting.
> >
> Seems to be water. However the terraforming event would produce fog.

As a result of THIS post I have decided to accept Jesus Christ as my
personal Lord and Saviour.

Date: 11 Oct 2006 01:45:04
From: Gilbertus Albans
Subject: Re: Genesis-The terraforming event: 1:6-9 the Expanse (atmoshere)and

Santolina chamaecyparissus wrote:
> Gilbertus Albans wrote:
>> Carlos Trevino wrote:
>>
>>> So the first time the earth was cover with water it was more of a fog?
>>> Interesting.
>>>
>> Seems to be water. However the terraforming event would produce fog.
>
> As a result of THIS post I have decided to accept Jesus Christ as my
> personal Lord and Saviour.
>

off topic.

Date: 10 Oct 2006 16:40:34
From: Santolina chamaecyparissus
Subject: Re: Genesis-The terraforming event: 1:6-9 the Expanse (atmoshere)and Dry land

Gilbertus Albans wrote:
> Santolina chamaecyparissus wrote:
> > Gilbertus Albans wrote:
> >> In the previous thread it was discussed the earth was a water planet
> >> (gen 1:2), and was being examined. A decision then was made to terraform
> >> the planet.
> >
> > As a result of this post I have decided to accept Jesus Christ as my
> > personal Lord and Saviour.
> >
>
> which is off topic

Okay, I take it back.

Date: 10 Oct 2006 16:13:14
From: Robibnikoff
Subject: Re: Genesis-The terraforming event: 1:6-9 the Expanse (atmoshere)and Dry land

Date: 11 Oct 2006 01:39:46
From: Gilbertus Albans
Subject: Re: Genesis-The terraforming event: 1:6-9 the Expanse (atmoshere)and

Robibnikoff wrote:
> "Gilbertus Albans" <primemenstat@world.net> wrote in message
> news:G4CWg.2423$e65.720@trnddc05...
>> In the previous thread it was discussed the earth was a water planet (gen
>> 1:2), and was being examined. A decision then was made to terraform the
>> planet. It seems that water was important. We learned the Planet was cover
>> by water because light did not reach the land surface under the water. It
>> seems the terraformers found a way to do this eventually and it is
>> explained from verse 6-
>
> And you posted this to alt.atheism because..........................?

Enjoyment. I find many atheist are not as open minded as I believe them
to be. Notice the subject is terraforming. I purposely used the Bible
for a particular reason. I find it interesting how a supposedly group of
sheep hearders have a few items written down which are extremely
complex, and yet they made it simple, in comparison with other ancient
books. Yet atheist see the term "bible" or "god" and go "gaga" and close
their minds. Just like fundy's.

Date: 11 Oct 2006 13:58:28
From: Robibnikoff
Subject: Re: Genesis-The terraforming event: 1:6-9 the Expanse (atmoshere)and Dry land

"Gilbertus Albans" <primemenstat@world.net > wrote in message
news:CXXWg.6405$W35.6362@trnddc06...
> Robibnikoff wrote:
>> "Gilbertus Albans" <primemenstat@world.net> wrote in message
>> news:G4CWg.2423$e65.720@trnddc05...
>>> In the previous thread it was discussed the earth was a water planet
>>> (gen 1:2), and was being examined. A decision then was made to terraform
>>> the planet. It seems that water was important. We learned the Planet was
>>> cover by water because light did not reach the land surface under the
>>> water. It seems the terraformers found a way to do this eventually and
>>> it is explained from verse 6-
>>
>> And you posted this to alt.atheism because..........................?
>
> Enjoyment. I find many atheist are not as open minded as I believe them to
> be. Notice the subject is terraforming. I purposely used the Bible for
> a particular reason. I find it interesting how a supposedly group of sheep
> hearders have a few items written down which are extremely complex, and
> yet they made it simple, in comparison with other ancient books. Yet
> atheist see the term "bible" or "god" and go "gaga" and close their minds.
> Just like fundy's.

So, you don't have a life and enjoy being a pain in the ass. Gotcha.

Oh, and PLONK
--
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo
#1557

Date: 10 Oct 2006 13:02:58
From: AcesLucky
Subject: Re: Genesis-The terraforming event: 1:6-9 the Expanse (atmoshere)and

Gilbertus Albans wrote:
> In the previous thread it was discussed the earth was a water planet
> (gen 1:2), and was being examined. A decision then was made to
> terraform the planet. It seems that water was important. We learned
> the Planet was cover by water because light did not reach the land
> surface under the water. It seems the terraformers found a way to do
> this eventually and it is explained from verse 6-
>
>
> 6 And God went on to say: “Let an expanse come to be in between the
> waters and let a dividing occur between the waters and the waters.” 7
> Then God proceeded to make the expanse and to make a division between
> the waters that should be beneath the expanse and the waters that
> should be above the expanse. And it came to be so. 8 And God began to
> call the expanse Heaven. And there came to be evening and there came
> to be morning, a second day.

And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and
let it divide the waters from the waters. 7 And God made the firmament,
and divided the waters which /were/ under the firmament from the waters
which /were/ above the firmament: and it was so. 8 And God called the
firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.
Gen 1:6-8 (KJV)

Can you see how further translations attempt to correct certain obvious
problems, like...there ain't no damn firmament! So they changed the name
to "expanse" because it can also mean expansion! But as used in the
earlier bibles:

"From the Vulgate firmamentum, which is used as the translation of the
Hebrew _raki'a_. This word means simply "expansion." It denotes the
space or expanse like an arch appearing immediately above us. They who
rendered _raki'a_ by firmamentum regarded it as a solid body.—Easton's
Illustrated Dictionary"

Further proof:
It formed a division between the waters above and the waters below (Gen
1:7). The _raki'a_ supported the upper reservoir (Ps 148:4). It was the
support also of the heavenly bodies (Gen 1:14), and is spoken of as
having "windows" and "doors" (Gen 7:11; Isa 24:18; Mal 3:10) through
which the rain and snow might descend.—Easton's Illustrated Dictionary"

--

In truth, there is no solid, no ceiling having doors or windows. In
truth, we now know that the water in the sky is water vapor, which is
lighter than air, and THAT'S why it's in the sky (not because of a
firmament that divides the two). In truth, therefore, there is no
firmament! (And god called the firmament heaven?)

I could go on, but you'd ignore facts and spew more scripture as if
facts didn't exist. Why don't you see this biblical myth for what it is?
All it takes is a bit of intellectual honesty.

Date: 11 Oct 2006 09:55:59
From: JimboCat
Subject: Re: Genesis-The terraforming event: 1:6-9 the Expanse (atmoshere)and Dry land

Gilbertus Albans wrote:

>No wonder no good science fiction is written
>today.

[newsgroups trimmed]
I wasn't quite certain whether this was a troll, before. Thanks for
clearing that up!

Jim Deutch (JimboCat)
--
"They probably did not need to use Velcro." - Larry Niven, et. al.

Date: 11 Oct 2006 20:26:52
From: Santolina chamaecyparissus
Subject: Re: Genesis-The terraforming event: 1:6-9 the Expanse (atmoshere)and Dry land

Gilbertus Albans wrote:
> Santolina chamaecyparissus wrote:
> > Gilbertus Albans wrote:
> >> Santolina chamaecyparissus wrote:
> >>> Gilbertus Albans wrote:
> >>>> Carlos Trevino wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> So the first time the earth was cover with water it was more of a fog?
> >>>>> Interesting.
> >>>>>
> >>>> Seems to be water. However the terraforming event would produce fog.
> >>> As a result of THIS post I have decided to accept Jesus Christ as my
> >>> personal Lord and Saviour.
> >>>
> >> off topic.
> >
> > Bitch, I'm not taking it back again. You led me to a personal
> > relationship with Christ. Deal with it, asshat.
> >
>
> No I didn't.

Denial, mon frere. It ain't just a river in Egypt. You led me to
Christ. Just accept it and we can move on.

Date: 11 Oct 2006 15:58:53
From: TBerk
Subject: Re: Genesis-The terraforming event: 1:6-9 the Expanse (atmoshere)and Dry land

Gilbertus Albans wrote:
> Eramus-Metal-Ak47 wrote:
> > Carlos Trevino wrote:
> >> "Gilbertus Albans" <primemenstat@world.net> wrote in message
> >> news:HBDWg.18034$wE5.3973@trnddc02...
> >>> Carlos Trevino wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> So the first time the earth was cover with water it was more of a fog?
> >>>> Interesting.
> >>>>
> >>> Seems to be water. However the terraforming event would produce fog.
> >> Makes sense, thanks for sharing your ideas.
> >> --
> >> Carlos Trevino
> >
> >
> > I am surprise at how so many have their mind brainwashed to the point
> > that when they read the word "bible" or "god" the assume the hread is
> > of a religious nature.
> >
>
> 12 years of indrination in the american school system does that. It
> kill objectivity and focus. No wonder no good science fiction is written
> today.

Well, I enter this thread at this particular point to add a hearty 'Me
Too!'.

(As in "hear, hear!")

It's baby with the bath water time folks, try and strain the liquid
before disposing of it.

Just because a topic might brush up against an inflammatory subject it
doesn't equal a need to ignite into flame.

TBerk

Date: 11 Oct 2006 22:18:05
From: Matt Silberstein
Subject: Re: Genesis-The terraforming event: 1:6-9 the Expanse (atmoshere)and Dry land

On Tue, 10 2006 00:47:34 GMT, in alt.atheism , Gilbertus Albans
<primemenstat@world.net > in <G4CWg.2423$e65.720@trnddc05> wrote:

>In the previous thread it was discussed the earth was a water planet
>(gen 1:2), and was being examined. A decision then was made to terraform
>the planet.

The term terraform generally means make a planet hospitable for life
(as we know it). It does not mean turn water to rock.

> It seems that water was important. We learned the Planet was
>cover by water because light did not reach the land surface under the
>water. It seems the terraformers found a way to do this eventually and
>it is explained from verse 6-

For the planet to be covered with water mean no mountains, no hills.
Which mean no plate activity. It is a very different planet than what
geology tells us.
>
>6 And God went on to say: �Let an expanse come to be in between the
>waters and let a dividing occur between the waters and the waters.�

This is the water above the sky and the water below the planet.

[snip]

>So, too, with the �expanse� produced on the second creative �day,� no
>solid substance is described as being beaten out but, rather, the
>creation of an open space, or division, between the waters covering the
>earth and other waters above the earth. It thus describes the formation
>of the atmospheric expanse surrounding the earth and indicates that at
>one time there was no clear division or open space but that the entire
>globe was previously enveloped in water vapor. This also accords with
>scientific reasoning on the early stages of the planet�s formation and
>the view that at one time all of earth�s water existed in the form of
>atmospheric vapor because of the extreme heat of the earth�s surface at
>that point.

You have changed the meaning to fit the science. Not uncommon, but not
particularly meaningful either.

[snip]

--
Matt Silberstein

Do something today about the Darfur Genocide

http://www.beawitness.org
http://www.darfurgenocide.org
http://www.savedarfur.org

"Darfur: A Genocide We can Stop"

Date: 11 Oct 2006 12:54:18
From: Cousin Ricky
Subject: Re: Genesis-The terraforming event: 1:6-9 the Expanse (atmoshere)and Dry land

Gilbertus Albans wrote:
>
> The subject is terraforming, not creation. I gather then you did not
> read the original post. It is a science topic not a religious one.

The original post starts with an excerpt from the Priestly creation
story in Genesis. The Bible is a religious document, not a science
document. What else were we supposed to think?

I also struggle to find its relevance to amateur astronomy in
particular.

> Evolution as the origin of man does not even pass the scientific method
> nor is it falsifiable, therefore should we conclude the Neanderthal as
> myth on par with bigfoot?

And with that statement, your credibility drops into the negative
numbers. I am not familiar with you, but i get vibes that you
routinely troll some of the newsgroups in this thread. Nevertheless,
it can't hurt to suggest <http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/comdesc/ >,
and don't mention evolution again until you've read it.

Clear skies!

--
------------------- Richard Callwood III --------------------
~ U.S. Virgin Islands ~ USDA zone 11 ~ 18.3N, 64.9W ~
~ eastern Massachusetts ~ USDA zone 6 ~ WWIPUD? ~
--------------- http://cac.uvi.edu/staff/rc3/ ---------------

Date: 12 Oct 2006 02:05:27
From: Gilbertus Albans
Subject: Re: Genesis-The terraforming event: 1:6-9 the Expanse (atmoshere)and

Cousin Ricky wrote:
> Gilbertus Albans wrote:
>> The subject is terraforming, not creation. I gather then you did not
>> read the original post. It is a science topic not a religious one.
>
> The original post starts with an excerpt from the Priestly creation
> story in Genesis. The Bible is a religious document, not a science
> document. What else were we supposed to think?
>

Many make it a "religious document" and it is a given it is not a
science manual.

> I also struggle to find its relevance to amateur astronomy in
> particular.
>

Planet formation.

>> Evolution as the origin of man does not even pass the scientific method
>> nor is it falsifiable, therefore should we conclude the Neanderthal as
>> myth on par with bigfoot?
>
>

Date: 11 Oct 2006 11:28:13
From: Cousin Ricky
Subject: Re: Genesis-The terraforming event: 1:6-9 the Expanse (atmoshere)and Dry land

Gilbertus Albans wrote:
> 6 And God went on to say: "Let an expanse come to be in between the
> waters and let a dividing occur between the waters and the waters."

Ooh, this is gonna be fun.

alt.religion.jehovahs-witn - What Mr. Albans wrote, in a nutshell, is
that "expanse" is a deliberate mistranslation. All else is
commentary. See Exodus 20:13 for another deliberate mistranslation.

alt.atheism - Who is this "God" person? Is s/he a foreman for a canal
locks construction crew or something?

alt.talk.creationism - The more astute of you will note that this comes
from the New World Translation, published by our good friends in
Brooklyn. I need say no more--except that at least they did not
mistranslate Isaiah 7:14.

rec.arts.sf.science - This post certainly qualifies as 'f', but where
do the 's' and the "science" come in?

sci.astro.amateur - If you must post a Bronze-Age myth, can't you use
one that's relevant to amateur astronomy, such as the story of
Perseus?

Clear skies!

--
------------------- Richard Callwood III --------------------
~ U.S. Virgin Islands ~ USDA zone 11 ~ 18.3N, 64.9W ~
~ eastern Massachusetts ~ USDA zone 6 ~ WWIPUD? ~
--------------- http://cac.uvi.edu/staff/rc3/ ---------------