Finally some good Imaging Conditions

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Date: 28 Sep 2006 21:48:43
From: William R. Mattil
Subject: Finally some good Imaging Conditions

All,

Last Thursday, even though the weather report called for moderate wind
condx I bit the bullet and loaded up the car and headed west to my dark
sky location. I didn't have the refractor along because the only film
camera that I have the adapters for (Pentax67) was lacking a new vacuum
pump which hadn't arrived yet. Upon arrival things didn't look good, er
well they did and they didn't. The deep blue sky indicated good dry air
but the wind gusting to 35mph was quite worrisome. But I set up the
253mm f/4 Newt on the AP900GTO and thought I would at least try.
Twilight came and the wind moderated but there were some residual clouds
passing through to the North so I opted to drift align the mount in lieu
of using the polar scope. By 10:30PM I was able to take the following
image as it was dipping into the "soup" near the horizon.

http://www.celestial-images.com/Images/M20-1x60min.html

guiding was fair but it was guiding through a lot of air :(

The next target was in a much better position.

http://www.celestial-images.com/Images/M33-3x60min.html

Three hours of exposures as it neared the meridian in dead calm. It was
during this period that I thought that the ST4 might not be functioning
quite right as it went through 25 - 3 sec integrations and never made a
correction to the mount. But it was in fact guiding fine ...it just
didn't need to make any :^)

After collecting that series (3x 60 minutes) Orion was starting his
westward Journey and was far enough above the horizon to give this a shot.

http://www.celestial-images.com/Images/B33-2x60min.html

Closed the shutter near enough to twilight that I was getting nervous.
The wind had shifted around to the Southeast and was gusting perhaps 10
mph but the ST4 reported no significant problems.

All totaled I collected 8 hours of images. All turned out relatively
fine so it was a success. Made the 3 hour trip home bearable :^)

Cooments welcome.

Regards

Bill

--

William R. Mattil : http://www.celestial-images.com

Date: 28 Sep 2006 20:57:46
From: Marty
Subject: Re: Finally some good Imaging Conditions

Absolutely beautiful, Bill!
Marty

Date: 30 Sep 2006 12:40:40
From: William R. Mattil
Subject: Re: Finally some good Imaging Conditions

Marty wrote:
> Absolutely beautiful, Bill!
> Marty
>
>

Thanks Marty,

On a personal note it was an early image of the Horse from
Wilson/Palomar Observatories that fueled my interest in Astronomy as a
child and in later years pulled me down the road of trying to duplicate
it with my own meager equipment. And this image became somewhat of a
quest because as luck would have it, every image I have ever attempted
of this targe something always went wrong. After some 100 attempts over
7 years I was begining to think it was my Unicorn and that I'd never
catch her. Camera lenses and refractors didn't count and I wanted to
image this at around 1100mm of focal length. I could probably scan some
of these failed images and create a gallery of what *not* to do. The
following is a short list.

1) Focusing at f/4 is near impossible. A Knife edge is the only viable
solution. Tony Hallas warned me that this was going to be a challenge.

2) 60 plus pounds of equipment on an EQ mount requires quite a bit of
care. And non windy conditions :(

3) Mirror slap in the SLR means "Hat Trick"

4) Using a guidescope on a Newtonion is a complete waste of time

5) Don't use color print film that is out of date. A purple HH isn't pretty.

6) (my favorite) Don't take a 1 hour exposure with the camera set on
1/125 instead of "bulb"

7) Airplanes. Argh. Satellites argh argh.

8) Condensation on the ST4's coverslip. Makes it hard to find guidestars

9) Coma at f/4 requires help. F/6 is not much of a problem. But at f/4
it stinks.

Regards

Bill

--

William R. Mattil : http://www.celestial-images.com

Date: 30 Sep 2006 19:27:27
From: Marty
Subject: Re: Finally some good Imaging Conditions

Your "what not to do" list is fun. I'm not an astrophotographer,
strictly visual, but I do enjoy looking at the pictures. Years ago, I
liked to do night photography... just scenery, but some of the same
problems apply. Obviously, guiding isn't a problem.

>3) Mirror slap in the SLR means "Hat
> Trick"

I used to use an old Argus C3 with a shutter so dirty that it stuck open
on low shutter speeds. The "hat trick" worked great when it came time
to reset to a higher speed to close the shutter. :)

>6) (my favorite) Don't take a 1 hour
> exposure with the camera set on 1/125
> instead of "bulb"

Ouch! :D

>7) Airplanes. Argh. Satellites argh argh.

Remember when it was exciting to have a satellite trail visible in a
photograph? Didn't take too long for that to wear off. With my
earthbound shots, I always tried to avoid moving cars, etc. It's just
doesn't look right.

As for the Horsehead, it's still on my list of things to see visually.
Easy to find the spot, but a little tough to burn it into my retina with
my C8 and at least mild light pollution. There's gonna be a night when
the sky is transparent, I have the time to run a couple miles down to my
reasonably dark "minimum maintenance" road, and I don't have to get up
early the next morning...
Marty

Date: 28 Sep 2006 19:31:18
From: Davoud
Subject: Re: Finally some good Imaging Conditions

William R. Mattil wrote:
> http://www.celestial-images.com/Images/M20-1x60min.html

> http://www.celestial-images.com/Images/M33-3x60min.html

> http://www.celestial-images.com/Images/B33-2x60min.html

> ...All totaled I collected 8 hours of images. All turned out relatively
> fine so it was a success. Made the 3 hour trip home bearable :^)

Skill and dedication. Always shows!

Davoud

--
usenet *at* davidillig *dawt* com

Date: 29 Sep 2006 10:19:20
From: oriel36
Subject: Re: Finally some good Imaging Conditions

Martin R. Howell wrote:

> On 29 Sep 2006 03:45:10 -0700, oriel36 wrote:
>
>
> > I can spend some
> > time with the astrophotographers and show them better pictures that
> > make their efforts look miserable and small.
>
>
> . . .as this boastful statement has made you look.

The problem is not astrophotographers,the problem is with those silly
people who use the convenience of the Ra/Dec system to justify the
axial and orbital motions of the Earth.Of course the entire empirical
system beginning with Newton is built on forcing heliocentric orbital
geometry into the Ra/Dec system and I assure you the price is the loss
of the great Copernican insights and the later refinements of Kepler
and Roemer.

Not one person here affirms that planetary orbital motion is seen
directly from Earth even when time lapse footage of Saturn and Jupiter
affirms it.It means that heliocentric reasoning has almost disappeared
from the planet and replaced by celestial sphere geometers and
photographers who have no sense of any damage done .

I will give you one boast that I am proud of - I can go outside and
appreciate our motion with the other planets around the Sun just as the
original heliocentric astronomers did.All you can do is ape the silly
Newtonian view which is contrary to this wonderful experience -

"For to the earth planetary motions appear sometimes direct, sometimes
stationary, nay, and sometimes retrograde. But from the sun they are
always seen direct," Newton

Humanity has been denied the original Copernican reasoning for so
long,astrophotographers can play their part is restoring the correct
way to look at retorgrades and their resolution -

Against the background stars,planetary motions appear to move
forward,stop and go into retrograde but from an orbitally moving Earth
planetary motions are seen to move forward around the Sun.

I would be proud to teach this to any teenager but you creeps are
presenting an obstacle by retaining the silly Newtonian view.

Date: 29 Sep 2006 03:45:10
From: oriel36
Subject: Re: Finally some good Imaging Conditions

Davoud wrote:
> William R. Mattil wrote:
> > http://www.celestial-images.com/Images/M20-1x60min.html
>
> > http://www.celestial-images.com/Images/M33-3x60min.html
>
> > http://www.celestial-images.com/Images/B33-2x60min.html
>
> > ...All totaled I collected 8 hours of images. All turned out relatively
> > fine so it was a success. Made the 3 hour trip home bearable :^)
>
> Skill and dedication. Always shows!
>
> Davoud
>
> --
> usenet *at* davidillig *dawt* com

Here are better images of the same things -

http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/image/0206/trifid_gemini_big.jpg

http://www.astrogb.com/images/galleria/M33.jpg

http://www.astrosurf.com/lombry/Documents/b33-hst.jpg

The astrophotographers were allowed to present their photographic
'achievements' and discussions on equipment without interference from
me for I have little argument with the magnification section of
astronomy.If you want to show each other pictures which have been done
a thousand times over then good for you as it is a harmless pursuit
with no productive ends,at least in the true astronomical sense.

As some numbskull has decided on a tactic of posting graffitti on
threads that are not strictly related to astro-imaging I can spend some
time with the astrophotographers and show them better pictures that
make their efforts look miserable and small.

Date: 29 Sep 2006 09:55:59
From: oriel36
Subject: Re: Finally some good Imaging Conditions

Marty wrote:

> >As some numbskull has decided on a
> > tactic of posting graffitti on threads that
> > are not strictly related to astro-imaging I
> > can spend some time with the
> > astrophotographers and show them
> > better pictures that make their efforts
> > look miserable and small.
>
> Gerald, I've been avoiding responding to your pretentious,
> intellectually vacuous drivel for some time now, but you are truly a
> world class sack of crap. Copernicus would be mortified at your twisted
> use of his brilliance as an intellectual road block. Go accomplish
> something.
> Marty

The whole point of Copernican heliocentricity is that planetary motions
around the Sun are seen directly from Earth -

http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/image/0112/JuSa2000_tezel.gif

A real astronomers with intuitive and intellectual intelligence sees
the faster Earth overtaking the slower moving outer planets thereby
affirming the insight of Copernicus.It is so easy to see using the time
lapse footage that you would need to be totally ignorant not to agree.

Now real vacuous drivel from somebody who opposed the idea that
planetary motions are not seen directly from an orbitally moving Earth
-

"For to the earth planetary motions appear sometimes direct, sometimes
stationary, nay, and sometimes retrograde. But from the sun they are
always seen direct," Newton

The fact that not one single person here agrees with Copernicus that
planetary motions are seen directly from Earth highlights the level of
ignorance that passes itself off as astronomy and makes for a very
dismal situation.

I know what was destroyed and how it was destroyed by 17th century
celestial sphere geometers and have a real sense of the damage wrought
on astronomy and the careful work of many men .The trouble is that you
have no sense of any damage done,no sense of the loss of the brilliant
work of the great astronomers stretching back to remote antiquity and
for what ?, a bit of magnification and the convenience of celestial
sphere geometry .

Date: 29 Sep 2006 09:32:14
From: oriel36
Subject: Re: Finally some good Imaging Conditions

Date: 29 Sep 2006 08:07:46
From: Marty
Subject: Re: Finally some good Imaging Conditions

>As some numbskull has decided on a
> tactic of posting graffitti on threads that
> are not strictly related to astro-imaging I
> can spend some time with the
> astrophotographers and show them
> better pictures that make their efforts
> look miserable and small.

Gerald, I've been avoiding responding to your pretentious,
intellectually vacuous drivel for some time now, but you are truly a
world class sack of crap. Copernicus would be mortified at your twisted
use of his brilliance as an intellectual road block. Go accomplish
something.
Marty

Date: 29 Sep 2006 04:28:27
From: Martin R. Howell
Subject: Re: Finally some good Imaging Conditions

On 29 Sep 2006 03:45:10 -0700, oriel36 wrote:

> I can spend some
> time with the astrophotographers and show them better pictures that
> make their efforts look miserable and small.

. . .as this boastful statement has made you look.