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Main
Date: 06 Oct 2006 23:34:20
From: Ashbury
Subject: CIA level resolution on Mars
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Amazing. They can take a picture of a golf cart on Mars but they can't or
won't take anypictures of the LEM lower stage on the moon. Go figure.
http://www.space.com/php/multimedia/imagedisplay/img_display.php?pic=091006_mro_vict_rover_02.jpg&cap=This+image+is+a+close-up+of+NASA%27s+Mars+rover+Opportunity+at+Victoria+Crater+as+seen+by+the+HiRISE+camera+aboard+the+space+agency%27s+powerful+Mars+Reconnaissance+Orbiter.+Credit%3A+NASA%2FJPL%2FUA.+CLick+to+enlarge.+%0D%0A
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Date: 06 Oct 2006 21:15:48
From: Starlord
Subject: Re: CIA level resolution on Mars
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Why should they take photos of the left over LEM part? We know how it got
there and even who left it for apollo 11, 12,14,15,16, and 17.
--
The Lone Sidewalk Astronomer of Rosamond
Telescope Buyers FAQ
http://home.inreach.com/starlord
Sidewalk Astronomy
www.sidewalkastronomy.info
The Church of Eternity
http://home.inreach.com/starlord/church/Eternity.html
"Ashbury" <OH GOD@this.net > wrote in message news:0KBVg.18$P7.7@edtnps90...
> Amazing. They can take a picture of a golf cart on Mars but they can't or
> won't take anypictures of the LEM lower stage on the moon. Go figure.
>
> http://www.space.com/php/multimedia/imagedisplay/img_display.php?pic=091006_mro_vict_rover_02.jpg&cap=This+image+is+a+close-up+of+NASA%27s+Mars+rover+Opportunity+at+Victoria+Crater+as+seen+by+the+HiRISE+camera+aboard+the+space+agency%27s+powerful+Mars+Reconnaissance+Orbiter.+Credit%3A+NASA%2FJPL%2FUA.+CLick+to+enlarge.+%0D%0A
>
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Date: 06 Oct 2006 21:50:15
From: Greg Crinklaw
Subject: Re: CIA level resolution on Mars
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Ashbury wrote:
> Amazing. They can take a picture of a golf cart on Mars but they can't or
> won't take anypictures of the LEM lower stage on the moon. Go figure.
Amazing. Why would anybody waste time and money taking images from
orbit of something that people with cameras have have actually visited?
Go figure.
--
Greg Crinklaw
Astronomical Software Developer
Cloudcroft, New Mexico, USA (33N, 106W, 2700m)
SkyTools: http://www.skyhound.com/cs.html
Observing: http://www.skyhound.com/sh/skyhound.html
Comets: http://www.skyhound.com/sh/comets.html
To reply take out your eye
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Date: 07 Oct 2006 15:30:25
From: Shawn
Subject: Re: CIA level resolution on Mars
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Greg Crinklaw wrote:
> Ashbury wrote:
>
>> Amazing. They can take a picture of a golf cart on Mars but they can't
>> or won't take anypictures of the LEM lower stage on the moon. Go figure.
>
>
> Amazing. Why would anybody waste time and money taking images from
> orbit of something that people with cameras have have actually visited?
> Go figure.
>
It's a good way to clearly demonstrate the resolving capability of the
camera. We know how big the various pieces of Apollo hardware are.
Shawn
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Date: 07 Oct 2006 16:30:07
From: Greg Crinklaw
Subject: Re: CIA level resolution on Mars
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Shawn wrote:
> Greg Crinklaw wrote:
>> Ashbury wrote:
>>
>>> Amazing. They can take a picture of a golf cart on Mars but they
>>> can't or won't take anypictures of the LEM lower stage on the moon.
>>> Go figure.
>>
>> Amazing. Why would anybody waste time and money taking images from
>> orbit of something that people with cameras have have actually
>> visited? Go figure.
>>
> It's a good way to clearly demonstrate the resolving capability of the
> camera. We know how big the various pieces of Apollo hardware are.
Apparently you missed the humor in my response...
--
Greg Crinklaw
Astronomical Software Developer
Cloudcroft, New Mexico, USA (33N, 106W, 2700m)
SkyTools: http://www.skyhound.com/cs.html
Observing: http://www.skyhound.com/sh/skyhound.html
Comets: http://www.skyhound.com/sh/comets.html
To reply take out your eye
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Date: 08 Oct 2006 00:12:36
From: Ashbury
Subject: Re: CIA level resolution on Mars
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"Greg Crinklaw" <theskyhoundyoureye@yahoo.com > wrote in message
news:b611c$45282a5c$4212a52c$12464@TULAROSA.NET...
> Shawn wrote:
>> Greg Crinklaw wrote:
>>> Ashbury wrote:
>>>
>>>> Amazing. They can take a picture of a golf cart on Mars but they can't
>>>> or won't take anypictures of the LEM lower stage on the moon. Go
>>>> figure.
>>>
>>> Amazing. Why would anybody waste time and money taking images from
>>> orbit of something that people with cameras have have actually visited?
>>> Go figure.
>>>
>> It's a good way to clearly demonstrate the resolving capability of the
>> camera. We know how big the various pieces of Apollo hardware are.
>
> Apparently you missed the humor in my response...
>
Since when do you have a sense of humor?
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Date: 07 Oct 2006 21:58:18
From: Chris L Peterson
Subject: Re: CIA level resolution on Mars
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On Sat, 07 2006 15:30:25 -0600, Shawn
<sdotcurry@bresnananotherdotnet > wrote:
>It's a good way to clearly demonstrate the resolving capability of the
>camera. We know how big the various pieces of Apollo hardware are.
And it would also be a cool thing to do. I'm sure that both of these
were motives in targeting the rovers from orbital cameras.
Of course, the various Martian orbital cameras were sent there with
different agendas, and the fact that they were able to image the rovers
and other artifacts is basically serendipitous (and not waste of time or
resources). It seems likely that those operating the cameras on any
lunar imaging missions will also try to image artifacts- not because
they need to prove something (which can't be done), but because of the
reason you give, and because it's cool.
_________________________________________________
Chris L Peterson
Cloudbait Observatory
http://www.cloudbait.com
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Date: 07 Oct 2006 15:59:11
From: Shawn
Subject: Re: CIA level resolution on Mars
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Chris L Peterson wrote:
> On Sat, 07 2006 15:30:25 -0600, Shawn
> <sdotcurry@bresnananotherdotnet> wrote:
>
>
>>It's a good way to clearly demonstrate the resolving capability of the
>>camera. We know how big the various pieces of Apollo hardware are.
>
>
> And it would also be a cool thing to do. I'm sure that both of these
> were motives in targeting the rovers from orbital cameras.
>
> Of course, the various Martian orbital cameras were sent there with
> different agendas, and the fact that they were able to image the rovers
> and other artifacts is basically serendipitous (and not waste of time or
> resources). It seems likely that those operating the cameras on any
> lunar imaging missions will also try to image artifacts- not because
> they need to prove something (which can't be done), but because of the
> reason you give, and because it's cool.
Very cool!
Shawn
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Date: 07 Oct 2006 01:47:06
From: Bob Schmall
Subject: Re: CIA level resolution on Mars
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Ashbury wrote:
> Amazing. They can take a picture of a golf cart on Mars but they can't or
> won't take anypictures of the LEM lower stage on the moon. Go figure.
>
> http://www.space.com/php/multimedia/imagedisplay/img_display.php?pic=091006_mro_vict_rover_02.jpg&cap=This+image+is+a+close-up+of+NASA%27s+Mars+rover+Opportunity+at+Victoria+Crater+as+seen+by+the+HiRISE+camera+aboard+the+space+agency%27s+powerful+Mars+Reconnaissance+Orbiter.+Credit%3A+NASA%2FJPL%2FUA.+CLick+to+enlarge.+%0D%0A
>
>
What stuns me is that the rover's tracks are visible.
Bob
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Date: 08 Oct 2006 00:19:21
From: JP LR
Subject: Re: CIA level resolution on Mars
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>>
> What stuns me is that the rover's tracks are visible.
>
> Bob
Hello
I find this very strange:
From Wikipedia the photos are taken with a 0.5 meter telescope, so it have a
limit of 0.2 second of angle.
If I am not wrong and if Wikipedia is true the Mars reconnaissance orbiter
is at 426 km at its closest point of Mars.
At that distance and if I remember my maths, it needs an object of 24 meters
to reach the size of 0.2 second.
If I am true this is very bad public relation stuff from the Nasa as usual,
once again the people thinks there are lies everywhere.
How to encourage young people to go to a science career with so many bad
science around?
Best,
Jean-Pierre
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Date: 07 Oct 2006 22:48:53
From: Chris L Peterson
Subject: Re: CIA level resolution on Mars
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On Sun, 8 2006 00:19:21 +0200, "JP LR" <fake.address@voila.fr >
wrote:
>I find this very strange:
>From Wikipedia the photos are taken with a 0.5 meter telescope, so it have a
>limit of 0.2 second of angle.
Correct.
>If I am not wrong and if Wikipedia is true the Mars reconnaissance orbiter
>is at 426 km at its closest point of Mars.
I believe the specification for closest range is more like 300 km, but
this doesn't matter much.
>At that distance and if I remember my maths, it needs an object of 24 meters
>to reach the size of 0.2 second.
By my math, the 24 meters over 424 km subtends 11.7 arcsec. 0.2 arcsec
at a distance of 424 km gives a ground object size of 41 cm. The same
calculation at 300 km gives a ground object size of 29 cm. These are
very much in agreement with the HiRISE camera design of 30 cm/pixel, and
seem to reflect the actual resolution seen in the image.
>If I am true this is very bad public relation stuff from the Nasa as usual,
>once again the people thinks there are lies everywhere.
>How to encourage young people to go to a science career with so many bad
>science around?
Maybe it was just a bad math class you had? <g >
_________________________________________________
Chris L Peterson
Cloudbait Observatory
http://www.cloudbait.com
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Date: 08 Oct 2006 00:11:44
From: Ashbury
Subject: Re: CIA level resolution on Mars
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> Correct.
>
>>If I am not wrong and if Wikipedia is true the Mars reconnaissance orbiter
>>is at 426 km at its closest point of Mars.
>
> I believe the specification for closest range is more like 300 km, but
> this doesn't matter much.
>
>
>>At that distance and if I remember my maths, it needs an object of 24
>>meters
>>to reach the size of 0.2 second.
>
> By my math, the 24 meters over 424 km subtends 11.7 arcsec. 0.2 arcsec
> at a distance of 424 km gives a ground object size of 41 cm. The same
> calculation at 300 km gives a ground object size of 29 cm. These are
> very much in agreement with the HiRISE camera design of 30 cm/pixel, and
> seem to reflect the actual resolution seen in the image.
>
>
>>If I am true this is very bad public relation stuff from the Nasa as
>>usual,
>>once again the people thinks there are lies everywhere.
>>How to encourage young people to go to a science career with so many bad
>>science around?
>
> Maybe it was just a bad math class you had? <g>
>
a 500 mm scope?? come on..thats 20 inches!!
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Date: 08 Oct 2006 00:17:01
From: Chris L Peterson
Subject: Re: CIA level resolution on Mars
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On Sun, 08 2006 00:11:44 GMT, "Ashbury" <OH GOD@this.net > wrote:
>a 500 mm scope?? come on..thats 20 inches!!
Yes. Your point?
_________________________________________________
Chris L Peterson
Cloudbait Observatory
http://www.cloudbait.com
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Date: 08 Oct 2006 05:12:06
From: Ashbury
Subject: Re: CIA level resolution on Mars
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"Chris L Peterson" <clp@alumni.caltech.edu > wrote in message
news:rqggi25vfsoe01k1lhkqlkkqvt0mk9u5p7@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 08 2006 00:11:44 GMT, "Ashbury" <OH GOD@this.net> wrote:
>
>>a 500 mm scope?? come on..thats 20 inches!!
>
> Yes. Your point?
Seems like a lot of scope for a satellite
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Date: 08 Oct 2006 14:43:53
From: Chris L Peterson
Subject: Re: CIA level resolution on Mars
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On Sun, 08 2006 05:12:06 GMT, "Ashbury" <OH GOD@this.net > wrote:
>Seems like a lot of scope for a satellite
There are many satellites in Earth orbit with much larger mirrors. I'd
say that 500mm is on the larger side of typical for many deep space
probes, but nothing radical.
_________________________________________________
Chris L Peterson
Cloudbait Observatory
http://www.cloudbait.com
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Date: 08 Oct 2006 11:30:37
From: JP LR
Subject: Re: CIA level resolution on Mars
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"Chris L Peterson" <clp@alumni.caltech.edu > a écrit dans le message de news:
1bbgi2pkeo76s8l5c9ti4tlgior6svldps@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 8 2006 00:19:21 +0200, "JP LR" <fake.address@voila.fr>
> wrote:
>
>>At that distance and if I remember my maths, it needs an object of 24
>>meters
>>to reach the size of 0.2 second.
>
> By my math, the 24 meters over 424 km subtends 11.7 arcsec. 0.2 arcsec
> at a distance of 424 km gives a ground object size of 41 cm. The same
> calculation at 300 km gives a ground object size of 29 cm. These are
> very much in agreement with the HiRISE camera design of 30 cm/pixel, and
> seem to reflect the actual resolution seen in the image.
>
Thanks for the answer, here are my thoughts about it:
If we name "alpha" the angle which have a value of 0.2 arcsec
If we name "size" the size of the object on Mars, and "distance" the
distance at the periapsis between the MRO and the surface.
sin(alpha) = 5.7E-05 = size / distance
so size = 5.7E-05 * 426000 = 24.339 meters.
* This value for sin(alpha) was obtained with the Excel spreadsheet.
* When I do it with Windows calculator I obtain a very different value:
sin(alpha) = 9,9e-7. If you use this you find more or less your resolution
value.
* When I use the Google calculator
http://www.google.com/search?q=sin%280%2C000057%29&btnG=Google+Search
again it gives 5,7 × 10-5
* When I use an online calculator at http://www.online-utility.org/servlet
again I have 5,7 * 10-5
* I remember from my "bad" math classes that x ~ sin(x) for very small
angles, so it seems that for an angle of 0,000057
(5.7 * 10-5) , i.e. 0.2 arcsec, a value for the sinus equal to (5.7 *
10-5) is reasonnable and a value of 9,9e-7 is unlikely.
But I am neither working in math nor in astronomy, I am only skeptical when
I see Hollywood like images ;-)
Jean-Pierre
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Date: 08 Oct 2006 14:41:47
From: Chris L Peterson
Subject: Re: CIA level resolution on Mars
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On Sun, 8 2006 11:30:37 +0200, "JP LR" <fake.address@voila.fr >
wrote:
>Thanks for the answer, here are my thoughts about it:
>
>If we name "alpha" the angle which have a value of 0.2 arcsec
>If we name "size" the size of the object on Mars, and "distance" the
>distance at the periapsis between the MRO and the surface.
>
>sin(alpha) = 5.7E-05 = size / distance
>so size = 5.7E-05 * 426000 = 24.339 meters.
You failed to calculate the sine. The angle is 0.2 arcseconds, which is
5.56e-5 degrees. The sine of this is 9.7e-7. So,
size = 9.7e-7 * 426e3 m = 0.41 m
>* I remember from my "bad" math classes that x ~ sin(x) for very small
>angles, so it seems that for an angle of 0,000057
> (5.7 * 10-5) , i.e. 0.2 arcsec, a value for the sinus equal to (5.7 *
>10-5) is reasonnable and a value of 9,9e-7 is unlikely.
The small angle rules you learned apply when you are working in the
natural angle units of radians, not degrees. In fact, if you look at the
HiRISE specifications, they list the pixel scale as 1 mrad since this
makes calculating the resolution trivial.
_________________________________________________
Chris L Peterson
Cloudbait Observatory
http://www.cloudbait.com
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Date: 08 Oct 2006 08:36:41
From: Greg Crinklaw
Subject: Re: CIA level resolution on Mars
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JP LR wrote:
> But I am neither working in math nor in astronomy, I am only skeptical when
> I see Hollywood like images ;-)
Skeptical of what? If you are implying these images are faked, you lack
a grasp of reality.
--
Greg Crinklaw
Astronomical Software Developer
Cloudcroft, New Mexico, USA (33N, 106W, 2700m)
SkyTools: http://www.skyhound.com/cs.html
Observing: http://www.skyhound.com/sh/skyhound.html
Comets: http://www.skyhound.com/sh/comets.html
To reply take out your eye
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Date: 08 Oct 2006 15:22:18
From: Chris L Peterson
Subject: Re: CIA level resolution on Mars
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On Sun, 08 2006 08:36:41 -0600, Greg Crinklaw
<theskyhoundyoureye@yahoo.com > wrote:
>JP LR wrote:
>> But I am neither working in math nor in astronomy, I am only skeptical when
>> I see Hollywood like images ;-)
>
>Skeptical of what? If you are implying these images are faked, you lack
>a grasp of reality.
Geez, Greg, don't be so abrasive. He made a resolution calculation that
called into question how the image was achieved. There was a math error,
which hopefully has been corrected. There's nothing wrong with
skepticism, as long as it doesn't persist obsessively in the face of
other evidence.
I haven't seen anything (yet) to suggest that JP LR is one of the
conspiracy nuts.
_________________________________________________
Chris L Peterson
Cloudbait Observatory
http://www.cloudbait.com
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Date: 08 Oct 2006 11:54:54
From: Greg Crinklaw
Subject: Re: CIA level resolution on Mars
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Chris L Peterson wrote:
> On Sun, 08 2006 08:36:41 -0600, Greg Crinklaw
> <theskyhoundyoureye@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> JP LR wrote:
>>> But I am neither working in math nor in astronomy, I am only skeptical when
>>> I see Hollywood like images ;-)
>> Skeptical of what? If you are implying these images are faked, you lack
>> a grasp of reality.
>
> Geez, Greg, don't be so abrasive. He made a resolution calculation that
> called into question how the image was achieved. There was a math error,
> which hopefully has been corrected. There's nothing wrong with
> skepticism, as long as it doesn't persist obsessively in the face of
> other evidence.
>
> I haven't seen anything (yet) to suggest that JP LR is one of the
> conspiracy nuts.
I guess our nut filters are set a little differently. It appeared to me
that he made (obvious) mistakes in his calculation and then jumped to
the conclusion that NASA was doing bad science.
Ok, he *seems* to have had an open mind regarding the fact that his
calculations are off, and I commend you for showing him the errors of
his ways, but for him go on to continue to suggest that the images are
somehow fake? Come on. How likely is that compared to the likelihood
that his calculations are off? I can't begin to imagine such hubris.
If there is another way to interpret his comment, then I apologize, but
I don't see it. What I do see, I think clearly, is that the very basis
of the pseudoscience nut is the hubris that is evident here. In my
view, what distinguishes the nuts is that they are more willing to see
highly unlikely conspiracies than to see their own ignorance. Maybe
this guy isn't a nut, but he is very likely going to become one given
his attitude. You just watch the rest of this conversation you are
having... You'll see. :-)
But you are right. I should have kept my mouth shut. Sorry.
Clear skies,
Greg
--
Greg Crinklaw
Astronomical Software Developer
Cloudcroft, New Mexico, USA (33N, 106W, 2700m)
SkyTools: http://www.skyhound.com/cs.html
Observing: http://www.skyhound.com/sh/skyhound.html
Comets: http://www.skyhound.com/sh/comets.html
To reply take out your eye
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Date: 08 Oct 2006 18:56:49
From: Ashbury
Subject: Re: CIA level resolution on Mars
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>
> But you are right. I should have kept my mouth shut. Sorry.
>
> Clear skies,
> Greg
perhaps that should be your new and improved mantra.
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Date: 08 Oct 2006 13:12:36
From: Greg Crinklaw
Subject: Re: CIA level resolution on Mars
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Ashbury wrote:
>> But you are right. I should have kept my mouth shut. Sorry.
>>
>> Clear skies,
>> Greg
>
> perhaps that should be your new and improved mantra.
Who are you? That's the second personal attack you've made. You sound
like one of our regular jerks with a new alias. Which jerk are you
then? Mick?
No matter, it's too bad you can't engage in normal conversion rather
than start these silly troll threads. You were the first to bring these
great images to the attention of the group. It's sad that you had to
add all your "baggage" to something so cool.
--
Greg Crinklaw
Astronomical Software Developer
Cloudcroft, New Mexico, USA (33N, 106W, 2700m)
SkyTools: http://www.skyhound.com/cs.html
Observing: http://www.skyhound.com/sh/skyhound.html
Comets: http://www.skyhound.com/sh/comets.html
To reply take out your eye
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Date: 08 Oct 2006 12:02:44
From: Ed Holden
Subject: Re: CIA level resolution on Mars
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"JP LR" <fake.address@voila.fr > wrote:
> If we name "alpha" the angle which have a value of 0.2 arcsec
It's much easier to use milliradians to calculate resolving power. In fact,
it's even easier with MRO/HiRISE as it achieves 1 milliradian/pixel. Thus,
an orbiter distance from the ground of 273 km (when it imaged the rover)
equates to 27.3 cm/pixel.
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Date: 08 Oct 2006 13:09:06
From: canopus56
Subject: Re: CIA level resolution on Mars
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"JP LR" <fake.address@voila.fr > wrote in message
news:4528c5a3$0$5081$ba4acef3@news.orange.fr...
<snip > sin(alpha) = 5.7E-05 = size / distance
Jean-Pierre, as Chris pointed out, you made a common mistake when returning
to your secondary school trigonometry after a number of years. I have made
it myself. The inputs for the sine function are in radians, not degrees.
So,
sin(alpha_degrees) = sin(radians(alpha_degrees))
Use the @RADIANS function in Excel. Remember to also convert arcsecs (0.2
arcsecs) to degrees first (0.2 arcsecs / 3600 degrees = x degrees).
> "Hollywood images"
Your skepticism about the reality of photography images in modern culture
really isn't an astronomy question, but is a cultural question perhaps best
made in another usenet group.
In modern society, so much of the way that we - in France as well as in
America - connect to the world with are photographic images in newspapers,
in art and on television.
One the one hand, most people have a sense that events do not occur unless
they been photographed. A common complaint of public issue activists is that
unless local media can be convinced to broadcast a protest on television,
for all intents and purposes, the event does not occur and the important
public debate does not exist in the public's mind - simply because there is
no photographic record of it.
Conversely, the photographic image can be easily manipulated to bias the
story that the image tells. This is not a new problem; it goes back to
early days after the invention of the photography and even earlier to the
use of the printing press and art as a tool of propaganda. This generates a
counter-sense in the mind of the viewer that all images have a sense of
unreality.
This modern cultural sense that all photographs have a quality of unreality
is increased by recent advances in digital image manipulation and their use
in mainstream film making. It is not uncommon for parts of scenes in
industrial commercial films to be modified or in part generated by digital
image manipulation. I forgotten the name of a recent mainstream film where
a Hollywood celebrity star had included in their acting contract, a
requirement that the size of their butt be reduced by post-production
digital processing.
The cultural result is a type of neurotic disorientation with respect to
photographic images. On the one hand, we _must_ have a photographic
documentation of an object to make it feel real; on the other, we are
skeptical of and distrust the reality of that photographic documentation.
IMHO, much of the conspiracy theorists religious disbelief in lunar and Mars
photographs is simply a symptom of this larger cultural neurosis. Lunar and
mar photographs are a convenient forum for some neurotics to work through
their insecurities about modern life, since it also preys upon the
individual's sense of powerlessness in the face of larger political and
economic forces that they have been conditional to think they have no
control over.
The controversy and disconnection between the photographic image as
documentation of reality vs. a manipulated version of a real object is not
new to amateur astronomy. Although such debates are less frequent now,
when CCD digital cameras for astronomy became a consumer product in the late
1990s, there was a division between those amateurs who used photographic
film and those who adopted modern digital image processing techniques as to
which image was "real." Is the "real" image what the eye sees reproduced
using tri-colored filters that balance a color mix in the spectral
bandwidths that the human eye uses? Or are false colored images, typically
seen in famous Hubble images like the "Fingers of Creation" picture, because
they bring out more detail in the object, arguably better documentation of
the "real" object.
But this is more of an artistic question than an amateur astronomy question.
For further reading, try Susan Sontag's classic essay from the 1960s - "On
Photography" - about this topic.
Skepticism of hierarchy is a good thing. Recent events surrounding our
American president's efforts to initiate the war in Iraq by deceiving the
public and his initial denial in the media of the existence of a worldwide
system of American torture camps believed to have held up to 14,000
individuals are cases in point. But too much skepticism can be unhealthy
for an individual and for society as a whole. I put blogsphere and usenet
threads discussing 9-11 videos that swept the net this summer into the later
category.
As you have probably guessed, the weight of opinion in this astronomy
newsgroup is we would rather spend less time dealing with this cultural
neurosis as some apply it to photographs of Apollo explorations and Mars
imagery.
Clear skies - Canopus56
P.S. - My apologies to the group for this digression.
An African proverb - Nothing is darker than the night sky except ignorance.
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Date: 08 Oct 2006 22:03:47
From: JP LR
Subject: Re: CIA level resolution on Mars
|
"canopus56" <canopus56@NOyahooSPAM.com > a écrit dans le message de news:
45294c98$0$11725$3a2ecee9@news.csolutions.net...
> "JP LR" <fake.address@voila.fr> wrote in message
> news:4528c5a3$0$5081$ba4acef3@news.orange.fr...
> <snip> sin(alpha) = 5.7E-05 = size / distance
>
>
> Clear skies - Canopus56
>
>
>
Thank you very much Canopus56 for this detailled and very intelligent
answer. Thanks also to Chris.
Your answers beeing not only technically precise but also with views
borrowed from other fields, provide me much relief: The "mood" here is
definitely not as friendly and broadminded as it was several years ago.
Jean-Pierre Le Rouzic
Telecom R&D engineer
|
| | | | | | |
Date: 08 Oct 2006 13:32:07
From: Greg Crinklaw
Subject: Re: CIA level resolution on Mars
|
canopus56 wrote:
> As you have probably guessed, the weight of opinion in this astronomy
> newsgroup is we would rather spend less time dealing with this cultural
> neurosis as some apply it to photographs of Apollo explorations and Mars
> imagery.
But more to the point, images from Mars aren't created by Hollywood or
even some NASA public relations agency. They are created by the
scientists and engineers who did the work to make them a reality. There
are few things one can be certain of in this world, but one of those
things is that the scientists and engineers who create these incredible
images have not, would not, and most importantly, simply could not get
away with--doring images in the manner implied. Healthy skepticism
is just that, but ignorant superficial skepticism is little better than
no skepticism at all.
--
Greg Crinklaw
Astronomical Software Developer
Cloudcroft, New Mexico, USA (33N, 106W, 2700m)
SkyTools: http://www.skyhound.com/cs.html
Observing: http://www.skyhound.com/sh/skyhound.html
Comets: http://www.skyhound.com/sh/comets.html
To reply take out your eye
|
| | | |
Date: 07 Oct 2006 16:27:57
From: Greg Crinklaw
Subject: Re: CIA level resolution on Mars
|
JP LR wrote:
>> What stuns me is that the rover's tracks are visible.
>>
>> Bob
>
> Hello
>
> I find this very strange:
> From Wikipedia the photos are taken with a 0.5 meter telescope, so it have a
> limit of 0.2 second of angle.
> If I am not wrong and if Wikipedia is true the Mars reconnaissance orbiter
> is at 426 km at its closest point of Mars.
> At that distance and if I remember my maths, it needs an object of 24 meters
> to reach the size of 0.2 second.
>
> If I am true this is very bad public relation stuff from the Nasa as usual,
> once again the people thinks there are lies everywhere.
> How to encourage young people to go to a science career with so many bad
> science around?
The only bad science is in your calculations (or your Wikipedia
reference). I'm not sure which is more stunning: the image or your
hubris. :-)
--
Greg Crinklaw
Astronomical Software Developer
Cloudcroft, New Mexico, USA (33N, 106W, 2700m)
SkyTools: http://www.skyhound.com/cs.html
Observing: http://www.skyhound.com/sh/skyhound.html
Comets: http://www.skyhound.com/sh/comets.html
To reply take out your eye
|
| |
Date: 07 Oct 2006 00:34:12
From: Sam Wormley
Subject: Re: CIA level resolution on Mars
|
Ashbury wrote:
> Amazing. They can take a picture of a golf cart on Mars but they can't or
> won't take anypictures of the LEM lower stage on the moon. Go figure.
>
> http://www.space.com/php/multimedia/imagedisplay/img_display.php?pic=091006_mro_vict_rover_02.jpg&cap=This+image+is+a+close-up+of+NASA%27s+Mars+rover+Opportunity+at+Victoria+Crater+as+seen+by+the+HiRISE+camera+aboard+the+space+agency%27s+powerful+Mars+Reconnaissance+Orbiter.+Credit%3A+NASA%2FJPL%2FUA.+CLick+to+enlarge.+%0D%0A
>
>
There is a camera in orbit around mars (several in fact) but none
around the Moon... is that enough figuring for you?
|
| | |
Date: 07 Oct 2006 02:40:56
From: Ashbury
Subject: Re: CIA level resolution on Mars
|
"Sam Wormley" <swormley1@mchsi.com > wrote in message
news:7CCVg.229049$1i1.131072@attbi_s72...
> Ashbury wrote:
>> Amazing. They can take a picture of a golf cart on Mars but they can't or
>> won't take anypictures of the LEM lower stage on the moon. Go figure.
>>
>> http://www.space.com/php/multimedia/imagedisplay/img_display.php?pic=091006_mro_vict_rover_02.jpg&cap=This+image+is+a+close-up+of+NASA%27s+Mars+rover+Opportunity+at+Victoria+Crater+as+seen+by+the+HiRISE+camera+aboard+the+space+agency%27s+powerful+Mars+Reconnaissance+Orbiter.+Credit%3A+NASA%2FJPL%2FUA.+CLick+to+enlarge.+%0D%0A
>
> There is a camera in orbit around mars (several in fact) but none
> around the Moon... is that enough figuring for you?
I guess your little brain missed the "can't or WON'T"
|
| | | |
Date: 06 Oct 2006 23:51:47
From: George
Subject: Re: CIA level resolution on Mars
|
"Ashbury" <OH GOD@this.net > wrote in message
news:YsEVg.52976$E67.24767@clgrps13...
>
> "Sam Wormley" <swormley1@mchsi.com> wrote in message
> news:7CCVg.229049$1i1.131072@attbi_s72...
>> Ashbury wrote:
>>> Amazing. They can take a picture of a golf cart on Mars but they can't
>>> or won't take anypictures of the LEM lower stage on the moon. Go
>>> figure.
>>>
>>> http://www.space.com/php/multimedia/imagedisplay/img_display.php?pic=091006_mro_vict_rover_02.jpg&cap=This+image+is+a+close-up+of+NASA%27s+Mars+rover+Opportunity+at+Victoria+Crater+as+seen+by+the+HiRISE+camera+aboard+the+space+agency%27s+powerful+Mars+Reconnaissance+Orbiter.+Credit%3A+NASA%2FJPL%2FUA.+CLick+to+enlarge.+%0D%0A
>>
>> There is a camera in orbit around mars (several in fact) but none
>> around the Moon... is that enough figuring for you?
>
>
> I guess your little brain missed the "can't or WON'T"
Won't? Try this:
http://www.nasa.gov/home/hqnews/2006/may/HQ_06224_LRO_update.html
and this:
http://www.nasa.gov/home/hqnews/2004/dec/HQ_04407_lunar_orbiter.html
George
|
| | | | |
Date: 07 Oct 2006 06:59:44
From: Ashbury
Subject: Re: CIA level resolution on Mars
|
"George" <george@yourservice.com > wrote in message
news:KO-dnRwD8fLPubrYnZ2dnUVZ_vSdnZ2d@insightbb.com...
>
> "Ashbury" <OH GOD@this.net> wrote in message
> news:YsEVg.52976$E67.24767@clgrps13...
>>
>> "Sam Wormley" <swormley1@mchsi.com> wrote in message
>> news:7CCVg.229049$1i1.131072@attbi_s72...
>>> Ashbury wrote:
>>>> Amazing. They can take a picture of a golf cart on Mars but they can't
>>>> or won't take anypictures of the LEM lower stage on the moon. Go
>>>> figure.
>>>>
>>>> http://www.space.com/php/multimedia/imagedisplay/img_display.php?pic=091006_mro_vict_rover_02.jpg&cap=This+image+is+a+close-up+of+NASA%27s+Mars+rover+Opportunity+at+Victoria+Crater+as+seen+by+the+HiRISE+camera+aboard+the+space+agency%27s+powerful+Mars+Reconnaissance+Orbiter.+Credit%3A+NASA%2FJPL%2FUA.+CLick+to+enlarge.+%0D%0A
>>>
>>> There is a camera in orbit around mars (several in fact) but none
>>> around the Moon... is that enough figuring for you?
>>
>>
>> I guess your little brain missed the "can't or WON'T"
>
> Won't? Try this:
>
> http://www.nasa.gov/home/hqnews/2006/may/HQ_06224_LRO_update.html
>
> and this:
>
> http://www.nasa.gov/home/hqnews/2004/dec/HQ_04407_lunar_orbiter.html
>
> George
good stuff.
|
| | | |
Date: 07 Oct 2006 03:18:16
From: Sam Wormley
Subject: Re: CIA level resolution on Mars
|
Ashbury wrote:
> "Sam Wormley" <swormley1@mchsi.com> wrote in message
> news:7CCVg.229049$1i1.131072@attbi_s72...
>> Ashbury wrote:
>>> Amazing. They can take a picture of a golf cart on Mars but they can't or
>>> won't take anypictures of the LEM lower stage on the moon. Go figure.
>>>
>>> http://www.space.com/php/multimedia/imagedisplay/img_display.php?pic=091006_mro_vict_rover_02.jpg&cap=This+image+is+a+close-up+of+NASA%27s+Mars+rover+Opportunity+at+Victoria+Crater+as+seen+by+the+HiRISE+camera+aboard+the+space+agency%27s+powerful+Mars+Reconnaissance+Orbiter.+Credit%3A+NASA%2FJPL%2FUA.+CLick+to+enlarge.+%0D%0A
>> There is a camera in orbit around mars (several in fact) but none
>> around the Moon... is that enough figuring for you?
>
>
> I guess your little brain missed the "can't or WON'T"
>
>
My apologies--I should have responded with
http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/youare.swf
|
| | | | |
Date: 07 Oct 2006 03:33:39
From: Ashbury
Subject: Re: CIA level resolution on Mars
|
"Sam Wormley" <swormley1@mchsi.com > wrote in message
news:Y%EVg.94450$aJ.2172@attbi_s21...
> Ashbury wrote:
>> "Sam Wormley" <swormley1@mchsi.com> wrote in message
>> news:7CCVg.229049$1i1.131072@attbi_s72...
>>> Ashbury wrote:
>>>> Amazing. They can take a picture of a golf cart on Mars but they can't
>>>> or won't take anypictures of the LEM lower stage on the moon. Go
>>>> figure.
>>>>
>>>> http://www.space.com/php/multimedia/imagedisplay/img_display.php?pic=091006_mro_vict_rover_02.jpg&cap=This+image+is+a+close-up+of+NASA%27s+Mars+rover+Opportunity+at+Victoria+Crater+as+seen+by+the+HiRISE+camera+aboard+the+space+agency%27s+powerful+Mars+Reconnaissance+Orbiter.+Credit%3A+NASA%2FJPL%2FUA.+CLick+to+enlarge.+%0D%0A
>>> There is a camera in orbit around mars (several in fact) but none
>>> around the Moon... is that enough figuring for you?
>>
>>
>> I guess your little brain missed the "can't or WON'T"
>
> My apologies--I should have responded with
> http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/youare.swf
LMAO
|
| |
Date: 06 Oct 2006 19:37:52
From: reconair
Subject: Re: CIA level resolution on Mars
|
Well they could if they had an orbiter with HiRise resolution in lunar
orbit.
Scott
"Ashbury" <OH GOD@this.net > wrote in message news:0KBVg.18$P7.7@edtnps90...
> Amazing. They can take a picture of a golf cart on Mars but they can't or
> won't take anypictures of the LEM lower stage on the moon. Go figure.
>
> http://www.space.com/php/multimedia/imagedisplay/img_display.php?pic=091006_mro_vict_rover_02.jpg&cap=This+image+is+a+close-up+of+NASA%27s+Mars+rover+Opportunity+at+Victoria+Crater+as+seen+by+the+HiRISE+camera+aboard+the+space+agency%27s+powerful+Mars+Reconnaissance+Orbiter.+Credit%3A+NASA%2FJPL%2FUA.+CLick+to+enlarge.+%0D%0A
>
|
| |
Date: 07 Oct 2006 08:30:13
From: RMOLLISE
Subject: Re: CIA level resolution on Mars
|
Ashbury wrote:
> Amazing. They can take a picture of a golf cart on Mars but they can't or
> won't take anypictures of the LEM lower stage on the moon. Go figure.
>
Hi:
Come on!
It wouldn't matter if they did, now would it? You'd _still_ think
Apollo was a hoax. If NASA could put you on a spacecraft and set you
down next to the LM. you'd _still_ say it was a hoax: "Ehh...evil ol'
NASA drugged me and took me to AREA 51!"
There's enough evidence to convince any rational person. That does NOT
include you Lunies.
Peace,
Rod Mollise
Author of:
Choosing and Using a Schmidt Cassegrain Telescope
and
The Urban Astronomer's Guide
<http://skywatch.brainiac.com/astroland >
|
| | |
Date: 07 Oct 2006 20:01:40
From: Ashbury
Subject: Re: CIA level resolution on Mars
|
"RMOLLISE" <rmollise@hotmail.com > wrote in message
news:1160235012.931995.41350@e3g2000cwe.googlegroups.com...
>
> Ashbury wrote:
>> Amazing. They can take a picture of a golf cart on Mars but they can't or
>> won't take anypictures of the LEM lower stage on the moon. Go figure.
>>
>
> Hi:
>
> Come on!
>
> It wouldn't matter if they did, now would it? You'd _still_ think
> Apollo was a hoax. If NASA could put you on a spacecraft and set you
> down next to the LM. you'd _still_ say it was a hoax: "Ehh...evil ol'
> NASA drugged me and took me to AREA 51!"
>
> There's enough evidence to convince any rational person. That does NOT
> include you Lunies.
>
Nada..this is about shutting em up once and for all. They shut the Face
Freaks of Mars
up finally with the high Res pics
|
| | | |
Date: 07 Oct 2006 20:54:12
From: Chris L Peterson
Subject: Re: CIA level resolution on Mars
|
On Sat, 07 2006 20:01:40 GMT, "Ashbury" <OH GOD@this.net > wrote:
>Nada..this is about shutting em up once and for all. They shut the Face
>Freaks of Mars
>up finally with the high Res pics
I'm afraid they didn't.
_________________________________________________
Chris L Peterson
Cloudbait Observatory
http://www.cloudbait.com
|
| | | |
Date: 07 Oct 2006 14:21:21
From: Greg Crinklaw
Subject: Re: CIA level resolution on Mars
|
Ashbury wrote:
> "RMOLLISE" <rmollise@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1160235012.931995.41350@e3g2000cwe.googlegroups.com...
>> Ashbury wrote:
>>> Amazing. They can take a picture of a golf cart on Mars but they can't or
>>> won't take anypictures of the LEM lower stage on the moon. Go figure.
>>>
>> Hi:
>>
>> Come on!
>>
>> It wouldn't matter if they did, now would it? You'd _still_ think
>> Apollo was a hoax. If NASA could put you on a spacecraft and set you
>> down next to the LM. you'd _still_ say it was a hoax: "Ehh...evil ol'
>> NASA drugged me and took me to AREA 51!"
>>
>> There's enough evidence to convince any rational person. That does NOT
>> include you Lunies.
>
> Nada..this is about shutting em up once and for all. They shut the Face
> Freaks of Mars
> up finally with the high Res pics
Why care? Your "freaks" don't matter either way. Ignoring them is a
lot cheaper.
--
Greg Crinklaw
Astronomical Software Developer
Cloudcroft, New Mexico, USA (33N, 106W, 2700m)
SkyTools: http://www.skyhound.com/cs.html
Observing: http://www.skyhound.com/sh/skyhound.html
Comets: http://www.skyhound.com/sh/comets.html
To reply take out your eye
|
| | |
Date: 07 Oct 2006 09:50:21
From: Starlord
Subject: Re: CIA level resolution on Mars
|
And you'll notice that he's calling the rovers "Goft Carts" as if to say
that they are not real rovers but just junk we've dumped there.
--
The Lone Sidewalk Astronomer of Rosamond
Telescope Buyers FAQ
http://home.inreach.com/starlord
Sidewalk Astronomy
www.sidewalkastronomy.info
The Church of Eternity
http://home.inreach.com/starlord/church/Eternity.html
"RMOLLISE" <rmollise@hotmail.com > wrote in message
news:1160235012.931995.41350@e3g2000cwe.googlegroups.com...
>
> Ashbury wrote:
>> Amazing. They can take a picture of a golf cart on Mars but they can't or
>> won't take anypictures of the LEM lower stage on the moon. Go figure.
>>
>
> Hi:
>
> Come on!
>
> It wouldn't matter if they did, now would it? You'd _still_ think
> Apollo was a hoax. If NASA could put you on a spacecraft and set you
> down next to the LM. you'd _still_ say it was a hoax: "Ehh...evil ol'
> NASA drugged me and took me to AREA 51!"
>
> There's enough evidence to convince any rational person. That does NOT
> include you Lunies.
>
> Peace,
> Rod Mollise
> Author of:
> Choosing and Using a Schmidt Cassegrain Telescope
> and
> The Urban Astronomer's Guide
> <http://skywatch.brainiac.com/astroland>
>
|
| |
Date: 07 Oct 2006 13:51:20
From: Bob Schmall
Subject: Re: CIA level resolution on Mars
|
Ashbury wrote:
> Amazing. They can take a picture of a golf cart on Mars but they can't or
> won't take anypictures of the LEM lower stage on the moon. Go figure.
>
> http://www.space.com/php/multimedia/imagedisplay/img_display.php?pic=091006_mro_vict_rover_02.jpg&cap=This+image+is+a+close-up+of+NASA%27s+Mars+rover+Opportunity+at+Victoria+Crater+as+seen+by+the+HiRISE+camera+aboard+the+space+agency%27s+powerful+Mars+Reconnaissance+Orbiter.+Credit%3A+NASA%2FJPL%2FUA.+CLick+to+enlarge.+%0D%0A
>
>
Seriously, are you suggesting that it is necessary to refute the moon
landing hoax crowd? Can't think of another reason to do it.
Bob
|
| | |
Date: 08 Oct 2006 04:03:01
From: MikeC
Subject: Re: CIA level resolution on Mars
|
"Bob Schmall" <rschmall@wi.rr.com > wrote in message
news:shOVg.146$F7.64@tornado.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> Seriously, are you suggesting that it is necessary to refute the moon
> landing hoax crowd? Can't think of another reason to do it.
Public relations. Cool pictures get the press to write stories about you.
Once the LRO is up there I'm sure we'll be seeing quite a few Apollo landing
site pics, just because.
|
| | | |
Date: 08 Oct 2006 13:47:18
From: Bob Schmall
Subject: Re: CIA level resolution on Mars
|
MikeC wrote:
> "Bob Schmall" <rschmall@wi.rr.com> wrote in message
> news:shOVg.146$F7.64@tornado.rdc-kc.rr.com...
>
>
>>Seriously, are you suggesting that it is necessary to refute the moon
>>landing hoax crowd? Can't think of another reason to do it.
>
>
> Public relations. Cool pictures get the press to write stories about you.
> Once the LRO is up there I'm sure we'll be seeing quite a few Apollo landing
> site pics, just because.
>
>
>
There you go--do it because it's cool and gets you press. So far the
only reasons given here for a lunar Hirise are, (1) disprove the lunies
and, (2) it's cool. Nope, NASA isn't shy about publicizing itself, but
the answer here is that LRO is prep for the next lunar landing, for what
that's worth.
Bob
|
| |
Date: 07 Oct 2006 01:48:14
From: canopus56
Subject: Re: CIA level resolution on Mars
|
"Ashbury" <OH GOD@this.net > wrote in message news:0KBVg.18$P7.7@edtnps90...
> Amazing. They can take a picture of a golf cart on Mars but they can't or
> won't take anypictures of the LEM lower stage on the moon. Go figure.
When the Lunar Reconisance Orbiter arrives in 2008 after the Japanese and I
believe Chinese orbiters in 2007, we are going to have a real treat with
some fascinating lunar pictures. Too bad NASA or the ESA can't also lift
for a lunar rover patterned on the Mars Rovers. From the MRO picture, you
can really see the potential benefit of having an orbiting photographic
platform with a robotic ground rover. Just a couple of years off. Can't
wait!
- Canopus56
P.S. -
> won't take anypictures of the LEM lower stage on the moon.
Because it would be a waste of taxpayer money better spent looking for ice
deposits at the North Lunar Pole or extending the Apollo explorations by
getting a better diversity of rock samples from other areas of the Moon.
|
| |
Date: 08 Oct 2006 06:52:38
From: RMOLLISE
Subject: Re: CIA level resolution on Mars
|
Ashbury wrote:
> Nada..this is about shutting em up once and for all. They shut the Face
> Freaks of Mars
> up finally with the high Res pics
No it's not. Nothing will stop them (or you, I'd guess) from believing
the Apollo Moon landings were a hoax. You may SAY you'd be convinced by
an image of the LM lower stage, but immediately after this was produced
you'd say, "Alright, so it landed. IT WAS UNMANNED." I guar-ron-tee."
My suggestion? Journey over to our parent group, sci.astro, where
you'll find plenty of like-minded individuals to theorize with.
Peace,
Rod Mollise
Author of:
Choosing and Using a Schmidt Cassegrain Telescope
and
The Urban Astronomer's Guide
<http://skywatch.brainiac.com/astroland >
|
| | |
Date: 08 Oct 2006 18:58:03
From: Ashbury
Subject: Re: CIA level resolution on Mars
|
"RMOLLISE" <rmollise@hotmail.com > wrote in message
news:1160315558.113790.45440@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
> Ashbury wrote:
>
>> Nada..this is about shutting em up once and for all. They shut the Face
>> Freaks of Mars
>> up finally with the high Res pics
>
> No it's not. Nothing will stop them (or you, I'd guess) from believing
> the Apollo Moon landings were a hoax. You may SAY you'd be convinced by
> an image of the LM lower stage, but immediately after this was produced
> you'd say, "Alright, so it landed. IT WAS UNMANNED." I guar-ron-tee."
>
> My suggestion? Journey over to our parent group, sci.astro, where
> you'll find plenty of like-minded individuals to theorize with.
You got me all wrong fella.
|
| | | |
Date: 08 Oct 2006 21:13:55
From: Bob Schmall
Subject: Re: CIA level resolution on Mars
|
Ashbury wrote:
> "RMOLLISE" <rmollise@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1160315558.113790.45440@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
>>Ashbury wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Nada..this is about shutting em up once and for all. They shut the Face
>>>Freaks of Mars
>>>up finally with the high Res pics
>>
>>No it's not. Nothing will stop them (or you, I'd guess) from believing
>>the Apollo Moon landings were a hoax. You may SAY you'd be convinced by
>>an image of the LM lower stage, but immediately after this was produced
>>you'd say, "Alright, so it landed. IT WAS UNMANNED." I guar-ron-tee."
>>
>>My suggestion? Journey over to our parent group, sci.astro, where
>>you'll find plenty of like-minded individuals to theorize with.
>
>
> You got me all wrong fella.
>
>
You have an open forum in which to explain yourself.
|
| |
Date: 08 Oct 2006 01:08:02
From: David Knisely
Subject: Re: CIA level resolution on Mars
|
Ashbury posted:
> Amazing. They can take a picture of a golf cart on Mars but they can't or
> won't take anypictures of the LEM lower stage on the moon. Go figure.
The image of the rover on Mars was take with a high-resolution camera
from an altitude of about 186 miles above the surface of *MARS*. "They"
*have* taken pictures of the Lunar module on the surface of the moon,
but the images were not taken from the Earth. Images were obtained of
the Apollo 17 lunar module "Challenger" sitting on the surface at
Taurus-Littrow from about 60 miles up using a special high-resolution
camera located in the service module of the orbiting CSM "America":
http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap020628.html
Right now, there are no probes in orbit above the moon which could take
similar images, so we will have to wait until the Lunar Reconaissance
Orbiter is launched in 2008, which will also have the capability to
image the descent stages of the lunar modules. Clear skies to you.
--
David W. Knisely KA0CZC@navix.net
Prairie Astronomy Club: http://www.prairieastronomyclub.org
Hyde Memorial Observatory: http://www.hydeobservatory.info/
**********************************************
* Attend the 13th Annual NEBRASKA STAR PARTY *
* July 23-28, 2006, Merritt Reservoir *
* http://www.NebraskaStarParty.org *
**********************************************
|
| |
Date: 12 Oct 2006 16:58:22
From: Gil
Subject: Re: CIA level resolution on Mars
|
I thought the picture of Opportunity at the crater's edge was
outstanding. I also believe that a similarly detailed picture of any of
the Apollo landing sites would be enormously interesting from a human
interest point of view.
Who cares what the conspiracy theorists say? It would be a great
picture. Especially if one of the remaining Apollo moonwalkers could
see it.
Perhaps a good quality shot of the Apollo 11 landing site will show the
flag that Aldrin saw fall over as the ascent module of the LEM blasted
off.
Gil
|
| | |
Date: 13 Oct 2006 01:21:45
From: Mike L'Mao
Subject: Re: CIA level resolution on Mars
|
"Gil" <gilbertviolette@sbcglobal.net > wrote in message
news:1160697502.829201.316460@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com...
>I thought the picture of Opportunity at the crater's edge was
> outstanding. I also believe that a similarly detailed picture of any of
> the Apollo landing sites would be enormously interesting from a human
> interest point of view.
>
> Who cares what the conspiracy theorists say? It would be a great
> picture. Especially if one of the remaining Apollo moonwalkers could
> see it.
>
> Perhaps a good quality shot of the Apollo 11 landing site will show the
> flag that Aldrin saw fall over as the ascent module of the LEM blasted
> off.
>
That is exactly right. That is the real deal here. I want to see the moon
buggy tracks.
|
| | | |
Date: 12 Oct 2006 18:55:03
From: Starlord
Subject: Re: CIA level resolution on Mars
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NASA has those, taken by the men before they lifted off.
--
The Lone Sidewalk Astronomer of Rosamond
Telescope Buyers FAQ
http://home.inreach.com/starlord
Sidewalk Astronomy
www.sidewalkastronomy.info
The Church of Eternity
http://home.inreach.com/starlord/church/Eternity.html
"Mike L'Mao" <LMAO@telusplanet.com > wrote in message
news:JSBXg.11619$P7.3376@edtnps90...
>
> "Gil" <gilbertviolette@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
> news:1160697502.829201.316460@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com...
>>I thought the picture of Opportunity at the crater's edge was
>> outstanding. I also believe that a similarly detailed picture of any of
>> the Apollo landing sites would be enormously interesting from a human
>> interest point of view.
>>
>> Who cares what the conspiracy theorists say? It would be a great
>> picture. Especially if one of the remaining Apollo moonwalkers could
>> see it.
>>
>> Perhaps a good quality shot of the Apollo 11 landing site will show the
>> flag that Aldrin saw fall over as the ascent module of the LEM blasted
>> off.
>>
>
>
> That is exactly right. That is the real deal here. I want to see the moon
> buggy tracks.
>
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Date: 13 Oct 2006 03:01:24
From: Mike L'Mao
Subject: Re: CIA level resolution on Mars
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"Starlord" <starlord@sidewalkastronomy.info > wrote in message
news:rY-dnQhnvZUzaLPYnZ2dnUVZ_qednZ2d@inreach.com...
> NASA has those, taken by the men before they lifted off.
We want to see 'em from above just the same. Just like that rover on Mars.
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Date: 12 Oct 2006 22:25:35
From: Starlord
Subject: Re: CIA level resolution on Mars
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Well, sice there are ZERO plans for any moon rovers at this time, just a
orbited or two for the next 10+ years and a rover "maybe" in the next 20
years, I'd not waste the time worrying about seeing anything other than what
was taken 30 years ago. Besides there's no "Need" for them, that means for
NASA there's about as much chance of they making a mission for that as there
is of seeing the inside of a Black Hole.
--
The Lone Sidewalk Astronomer of Rosamond
Telescope Buyers FAQ
http://home.inreach.com/starlord
Sidewalk Astronomy
www.sidewalkastronomy.info
The Church of Eternity
http://home.inreach.com/starlord/church/Eternity.html
"Mike L'Mao" <LMAO@telusplanet.com > wrote in message
news:8kDXg.14516$P7.7666@edtnps89...
>
> "Starlord" <starlord@sidewalkastronomy.info> wrote in message
> news:rY-dnQhnvZUzaLPYnZ2dnUVZ_qednZ2d@inreach.com...
>> NASA has those, taken by the men before they lifted off.
>
> We want to see 'em from above just the same. Just like that rover on
> Mars.
>
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Date: 13 Oct 2006 13:29:51
From: Chris L Peterson
Subject: Re: CIA level resolution on Mars
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On Thu, 12 2006 22:25:35 -0700, "Starlord"
<starlord@sidewalkastronomy.info > wrote:
>Well, sice there are ZERO plans for any moon rovers at this time, just a
>orbited or two for the next 10+ years and a rover "maybe" in the next 20
>years, I'd not waste the time worrying about seeing anything other than what
>was taken 30 years ago. Besides there's no "Need" for them, that means for
>NASA there's about as much chance of they making a mission for that as there
>is of seeing the inside of a Black Hole.
I think he's referring to the moon buggy tracks which are certainly
still there. A special mission to image them as evidence we actually
went to the Moon would be idiocy. But there is a high resolution Moon
imaging mission in the works, and it seems likely that images will be
returned of all the landing sites.
Certainly, the majority of us would enjoy seeing orbital images of the
Apollo sites, and it has nothing to do with any belief that the landings
were faked!
_________________________________________________
Chris L Peterson
Cloudbait Observatory
http://www.cloudbait.com
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Date: 13 Oct 2006 20:21:53
From: Mike L'Mao
Subject: Re: CIA level resolution on Mars
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"Chris L Peterson" <clp@alumni.caltech.edu > wrote in message
news:ou4vi2trlf6fm2ilioafqj7ls123trneh8@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 12 2006 22:25:35 -0700, "Starlord"
> <starlord@sidewalkastronomy.info> wrote:
>
>>Well, sice there are ZERO plans for any moon rovers at this time, just a
>>orbited or two for the next 10+ years and a rover "maybe" in the next 20
>>years, I'd not waste the time worrying about seeing anything other than
>>what
>>was taken 30 years ago. Besides there's no "Need" for them, that means for
>>NASA there's about as much chance of they making a mission for that as
>>there
>>is of seeing the inside of a Black Hole.
>
> I think he's referring to the moon buggy tracks which are certainly
> still there. A special mission to image them as evidence we actually
> went to the Moon would be idiocy. But there is a high resolution Moon
> imaging mission in the works, and it seems likely that images will be
> returned of all the landing sites.
>
> Certainly, the majority of us would enjoy seeing orbital images of the
> Apollo sites, and it has nothing to do with any belief that the landings
> were faked!
Who said it was?
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Date: 13 Oct 2006 20:40:16
From: Chris L Peterson
Subject: Re: CIA level resolution on Mars
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On Fri, 13 2006 20:21:53 GMT, "Mike L'Mao" <LMAO@telusplanet.com >
wrote:
>> Certainly, the majority of us would enjoy seeing orbital images of the
>> Apollo sites, and it has nothing to do with any belief that the landings
>> were faked!
>
>Who said it was?
The implication was present in several posts. I'm not pointing a finger
at anybody in particular. You got a guilty conscience? <g >
_________________________________________________
Chris L Peterson
Cloudbait Observatory
http://www.cloudbait.com
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Date: 14 Oct 2006 01:29:20
From: Mike L'Mao
Subject: Re: CIA level resolution on Mars
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"Chris L Peterson" <clp@alumni.caltech.edu > wrote in message
news:sauvi2lqbkf9bl60fsa8gt6g847mr950d9@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 13 2006 20:21:53 GMT, "Mike L'Mao" <LMAO@telusplanet.com>
> wrote:
>
>>> Certainly, the majority of us would enjoy seeing orbital images of the
>>> Apollo sites, and it has nothing to do with any belief that the landings
>>> were faked!
>>
>>Who said it was?
>
> The implication was present in several posts. I'm not pointing a finger
> at anybody in particular. You got a guilty conscience? <g>
There are no implications at all. You are hallucinating again.
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Date: 13 Oct 2006 18:41:16
From: Starlord
Subject: Re: CIA level resolution on Mars
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" > There are no implications at all. You are hallucinating again. "
No he's not, we get some many of those posts that, your post came in
sounding just like those.
--
The Lone Sidewalk Astronomer of Rosamond
Telescope Buyers FAQ
http://home.inreach.com/starlord
Sidewalk Astronomy
www.sidewalkastronomy.info
The Church of Eternity
http://home.inreach.com/starlord/church/Eternity.html
"Mike L'Mao" <LMAO@telusplanet.com > wrote in message
news:Q3XXg.21640$H7.2216@edtnps82...
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Date: 14 Oct 2006 15:00:22
From: Mike L'Mao
Subject: Re: CIA level resolution on Mars
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"Starlord" <starlord@sidewalkastronomy.info > wrote in message
news:gKGdncARWPuH3K3YnZ2dnUVZ_rKdnZ2d@inreach.com...
>"> There are no implications at all. You are hallucinating again. "
>
> No he's not, we get some many of those posts that, your post came in
> sounding just like those.
It's a matter of perception Einstein. Perceptions are relative.
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