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Main
Date: 29 Nov 2006 23:19:37
From: Rick Evans
Subject: An Ancient Computer Surprises Scientists
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NYTimes http://tinyurl.com/yjn7yl
Also heard on NPR
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=6556419
--
Rick Evans
----------------------------------------------------------------
Lat +42° 11' 07"
Lon -71° 04' 35"
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http://www.chempensoftware.com
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http://mysite.verizon.net/hiltonevans33050/astroimaging/astroimaging.htm
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Date: 29 Nov 2006 17:48:42
From: David G. Nagel
Subject: Re: An Ancient Computer Surprises Scientists
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Rick Evans wrote:
> NYTimes http://tinyurl.com/yjn7yl
>
> Also heard on NPR
> http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=6556419
>
This device called the Antikythera Mechanism has been the subject of an
hour long program on the Discovery Channel. It's composition and
function are a complete mystery.
Dave N
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Date: 29 Nov 2006 17:10:30
From: Brian Tung
Subject: Re: An Ancient Computer Surprises Scientists
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David G. Nagel wrote:
> This device called the Antikythera Mechanism has been the subject of an
> hour long program on the Discovery Channel. It's composition and
> function are a complete mystery.
It's a bit of an exaggeration to say that the composition and function
are a *complete* mystery. There's lots to find out still about the
Antikythera Mechanism, including stuff we may never find out, for one
reason or another. But we know that it was essentially the last metal
geared mechanism for about a millennium, and that it was some kind of
orrery. The devil, of course, is in the details.
More has been found out about the Antikythera Mechanism, which (as I
think the article probably states) will start to be disseminated over
the next few days.
--
Brian Tung <brian@isi.edu >
The Astronomy Corner at http://astro.isi.edu/
Unofficial C5+ Home Page at http://astro.isi.edu/c5plus/
The PleiadAtlas Home Page at http://astro.isi.edu/pleiadatlas/
My Own Personal FAQ (SAA) at http://astro.isi.edu/reference/faq.html
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Date: 30 Nov 2006 03:03:45
From: Eugene Griessel
Subject: Re: An Ancient Computer Surprises Scientists
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brian@isi.edu (Brian Tung) wrote:
>David G. Nagel wrote:
>> This device called the Antikythera Mechanism has been the subject of an
>> hour long program on the Discovery Channel. It's composition and
>> function are a complete mystery.
>
>It's a bit of an exaggeration to say that the composition and function
>are a *complete* mystery. There's lots to find out still about the
>Antikythera Mechanism, including stuff we may never find out, for one
>reason or another. But we know that it was essentially the last metal
>geared mechanism for about a millennium, and that it was some kind of
>orrery. The devil, of course, is in the details.
>
>More has been found out about the Antikythera Mechanism, which (as I
>think the article probably states) will start to be disseminated over
>the next few days.
There was an article in "Nature" aboutit yesterday - but I think the
web version may require you to be a subscriber:
http://ealerts.nature.com/cgi-bin24/DM/y/ebTg0SpfeM0HjB0BGqh0E8
Eugene L Griessel
It is difficult to soar like an eagle when you work with turkeys.
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Date: 02 Dec 2006 14:35:46
From: JOHN PAZMINO
Subject: Re: An Ancient Computer Surpr
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DG > Subject: Re: An Ancient Computer Surprises Scientists
DG > From: "David G. Nagel" <nagel@core.com>
DG > Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2006 17:48:42 -0600
DG >
DG > This device called the Antikythera Mechanism has been the subject of an
DG > hour long program on the Discovery Channel. It's composition and
DG > function are a complete mystery.
It is not a complete mystery, but it has many mysteries left to
unravel. This device was described in several articlws over the past
couple decades. I first learned of it by an article in SciAmm a long
time ago.
From the mechnical point of view, what ever the stronomy in it is,
this machine is one hell of a marvel. Gearing really didn't mature
until the industrial revolution. Before then we used vogs, discs or
wheels with pegs or grooves around the edge. A true gear has specialy
shaped teeth, the 'involute', to reduce slidng friction between meshed
gears.
Apart from the theorietical develop of gears, there is the
practical matter of actually making them. I have no idea have this was
done in Greek times, there being so far only this Antikythera example.
I hazard, if the discs are thn enough, the teeth could have been
dinked out one by one on a jig that indexed by a set angle to the
next point on the circumference. Then each tooth was filed smooth to
final shape.
From pictures of the device published from time to time, the
tolerances inside the cage would have been very tight. Specially if it
was made for astronomy simulation, where the machine was good enough
to predict eclipses.
---
þ RoseReader 2.52á P005004
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Date: 30 Nov 2006 06:21:29
From: esmartguy
Subject: What is dark energy? What is dark matter?
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11/31/2006
What is dark energy? What is dark matter?
These are questions that have been astounding scientists and physicists
alike for years, creating guess work and asking questions of each other
creating what we call science fiction from their discoveries.
I believe what they have or are witnessing is what I call: "The Shadow
dark matter effect".
That is when a moon or asteroid gets trapped in what appears to be an
orbit directly in front of a star; and in its wake caught up in the
gravitional field is trapped matter from meteor debris or dust clouds
and even gases which we see as dark clouds or matter. Almost all of
these appear on the dark side of a planetary object or even what they
call a black hole and I call a red star at the end of its life
and. We see this effect without hands on knowledge and we give them
masterful names.
Here is a simple experiment for all of you disbelievers like myself.
The next time you start your car in the cold weather under a street
light, making sure the exhaust is in the dark or shadow of the vehicle
what do you see when you look at the exhaust fumes, what dose it look
like? Is there any resemblance to dark energy or dark matter to you?
Brian Tung wrote:
> David G. Nagel wrote:
> > This device called the Antikythera Mechanism has been the subject of an
> > hour long program on the Discovery Channel. It's composition and
> > function are a complete mystery.
>
> It's a bit of an exaggeration to say that the composition and function
> are a *complete* mystery. There's lots to find out still about the
> Antikythera Mechanism, including stuff we may never find out, for one
> reason or another. But we know that it was essentially the last metal
> geared mechanism for about a millennium, and that it was some kind of
> orrery. The devil, of course, is in the details.
>
> More has been found out about the Antikythera Mechanism, which (as I
> think the article probably states) will start to be disseminated over
> the next few days.
>
> --
> Brian Tung <brian@isi.edu>
> The Astronomy Corner at http://astro.isi.edu/
> Unofficial C5+ Home Page at http://astro.isi.edu/c5plus/
> The PleiadAtlas Home Page at http://astro.isi.edu/pleiadatlas/
> My Own Personal FAQ (SAA) at http://astro.isi.edu/reference/faq.html
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Date: 30 Nov 2006 22:01:28
From: Davoud
Subject: Re: What is dark energy? What is dark matter?
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esmartguy [sic] wrote:
> 11/31/2006
> What is dark energy? What is dark matter?
> ...
> I believe what they have or are witnessing is what I call: "The Shadow
> dark matter effect".
>
> That is when a moon or asteroid gets trapped in what appears to be an
> orbit directly in front of a star...
My own observations -- and I'm told that others have made the same
observations and arrived at the same conclusion -- show that "orbit"
means to travel in a certain path /around/ a star rather than to hover
in front of the star. I'm also told that this orbit can usually be
described via a few equations realized by one Isaac Newton.
> Here is a simple experiment for all of you disbelievers like myself.
> The next time you start your car in the cold weather under a street
> light, making sure the exhaust is in the dark or shadow of the vehicle
> what do you see when you look at the exhaust fumes, what dose it look
> like? Is there any resemblance to dark energy or dark matter to you?
I'm with you here. I /had/ a vehicle that ran on dark energy that was
distilled from dark matter, but I replaced it with one that runs on
light energy <http://www.davidillig.com/starcar.shtml >.
You are the icing on the cake. The Christmas fruitcake. Not only do I
smell a Nobel in Physics coming your way, but you could win November's
genius the month competition.
Davoud
--
usenet *at* davidillig dawt com
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Date: 02 Dec 2006 21:30:45
From: Sam Wormley
Subject: Re: An Ancient Computer Surprises Scientists
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esmartguy wrote:
> 11/31/2006
> What is dark energy? What is dark matter?
>
> These are questions that have been astounding scientists and physicists
> alike for years, creating guess work and asking questions of each other
> creating what we call science fiction from their discoveries.
>
> I believe what they have or are witnessing is what I call: "The Shadow
> dark matter effect".
>
> That is when a moon or asteroid gets trapped in what appears to be an
> orbit directly in front of a star; and in its wake caught up in the
> gravitional field is trapped matter from meteor debris or dust clouds
> and even gases which we see as dark clouds or matter. Almost all of
> these appear on the dark side of a planetary object or even what they
> call a black hole and I call a red star at the end of its life
> and. We see this effect without hands on knowledge and we give them
> masterful names.
>
> Here is a simple experiment for all of you disbelievers like myself.
> The next time you start your car in the cold weather under a street
> light, making sure the exhaust is in the dark or shadow of the vehicle
> what do you see when you look at the exhaust fumes, what dose it look
> like? Is there any resemblance to dark energy or dark matter to you?
>
>
>
>
> Brian Tung wrote:
>> David G. Nagel wrote:
>>> This device called the Antikythera Mechanism has been the subject of an
>>> hour long program on the Discovery Channel. It's composition and
>>> function are a complete mystery.
>> It's a bit of an exaggeration to say that the composition and function
>> are a *complete* mystery. There's lots to find out still about the
>> Antikythera Mechanism, including stuff we may never find out, for one
>> reason or another. But we know that it was essentially the last metal
>> geared mechanism for about a millennium, and that it was some kind of
>> orrery. The devil, of course, is in the details.
>>
>> More has been found out about the Antikythera Mechanism, which (as I
>> think the article probably states) will start to be disseminated over
>> the next few days.
>>
>> --
>> Brian Tung <brian@isi.edu>
>> The Astronomy Corner at http://astro.isi.edu/
>> Unofficial C5+ Home Page at http://astro.isi.edu/c5plus/
>> The PleiadAtlas Home Page at http://astro.isi.edu/pleiadatlas/
>> My Own Personal FAQ (SAA) at http://astro.isi.edu/reference/faq.html
>
Please stick to the thread topic, smartguy!
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Date:
From: Martin Brown
Subject: Re: An Ancient Computer Surprises Scientists
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Date: 01 Dec 2006 20:26:43
From: Erik
Subject: Re: What is dark energy? What is dark matter?
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Davoud wrote:
> esmartguy [sic] wrote:
>
> > 11/31/2006
> > What is dark energy? What is dark matter?
>
> > ...
>
> > I believe what they have or are witnessing is what I call: "The Shadow
> > dark matter effect".
> >
> > That is when a moon or asteroid gets trapped in what appears to be an
> > orbit directly in front of a star...
>
> My own observations -- and I'm told that others have made the same
> observations and arrived at the same conclusion -- show that "orbit"
> means to travel in a certain path /around/ a star rather than to hover
> in front of the star. I'm also told that this orbit can usually be
> described via a few equations realized by one Isaac Newton.
>
> > Here is a simple experiment for all of you disbelievers like myself.
> > The next time you start your car in the cold weather under a street
> > light, making sure the exhaust is in the dark or shadow of the vehicle
> > what do you see when you look at the exhaust fumes, what dose it look
> > like? Is there any resemblance to dark energy or dark matter to you?
>
> I'm with you here. I /had/ a vehicle that ran on dark energy that was
> distilled from dark matter, but I replaced it with one that runs on
> light energy <http://www.davidillig.com/starcar.shtml>.
>
> You are the icing on the cake. The Christmas fruitcake. Not only do I
> smell a Nobel in Physics coming your way, but you could win November's
> genius the month competition.
>
> Davoud
>
> --
> usenet *at* davidillig dawt com
Davoud,
Actually, I smell Shawn. I don't see the words "heliocentric," "PGP,"
or "Ed" anywhere in the message, which takes out three Christmas
fruitcakes I know of (lesser known, for good reason, than the three
wise men.)
Erik
socalsw
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Date: 01 Dec 2006 20:22:45
From: Erik
Subject: Re: An Ancient Computer Surprises Scientists
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Martin Brown wrote:
> Richard Tobin wrote:
>
> > In article <456e4994.513988@news.uunet.co.za>,
> > Eugene Griessel <eugene@dynagen..co..za> wrote:
> >
> > >>It's a bit of an exaggeration to say that the composition and function
> > >>are a *complete* mystery.
> >
> > To say the least.
> >
> > >There was an article in "Nature" aboutit yesterday - but I think the
> > >web version may require you to be a subscriber:
> > >
> > >http://ealerts.nature.com/cgi-bin24/DM/y/ebTg0SpfeM0HjB0BGqh0E8
> >
> > You can download the paper as a PDF document from:
> >
> > http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v444/n7119/pdf/nature05357.pdf
> >
> > (or at least I can; I suppose it's possible that I can only get it
> > because my university subscribes).
>
> You can, but they want $30 for it if you are not a subscriber. Seems a
> bit steep!
> The paper copy of the journal is much less.
>
> Regards,
> Martin Brown
Something that I discovered by chance. A number of community colleges
(and possibly state colleges) that subscribe to these services often
supply a password to students and faculty to access these servers. How
do they do this? By printing the passwords on a bookmark and leaving a
stack of them freely available at the circulation desk. I'm just
sayin'...
Erik
socalsw
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Date: 02 Dec 2006 12:14:56
From: oriel36
Subject: Re: What is dark energy? What is dark matter?
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Erik wrote:
> Davoud wrote:
> > esmartguy [sic] wrote:
> >
> > > 11/31/2006
> > > What is dark energy? What is dark matter?
> >
> > > ...
> >
> > > I believe what they have or are witnessing is what I call: "The Shadow
> > > dark matter effect".
> > >
> > > That is when a moon or asteroid gets trapped in what appears to be an
> > > orbit directly in front of a star...
> >
> > My own observations -- and I'm told that others have made the same
> > observations and arrived at the same conclusion -- show that "orbit"
> > means to travel in a certain path /around/ a star rather than to hover
> > in front of the star. I'm also told that this orbit can usually be
> > described via a few equations realized by one Isaac Newton.
> >
> > > Here is a simple experiment for all of you disbelievers like myself.
> > > The next time you start your car in the cold weather under a street
> > > light, making sure the exhaust is in the dark or shadow of the vehicle
> > > what do you see when you look at the exhaust fumes, what dose it look
> > > like? Is there any resemblance to dark energy or dark matter to you?
> >
> > I'm with you here. I /had/ a vehicle that ran on dark energy that was
> > distilled from dark matter, but I replaced it with one that runs on
> > light energy <http://www.davidillig.com/starcar.shtml>.
> >
> > You are the icing on the cake. The Christmas fruitcake. Not only do I
> > smell a Nobel in Physics coming your way, but you could win November's
> > genius the month competition.
> >
> > Davoud
> >
> > --
> > usenet *at* davidillig dawt com
> Davoud,
>
> Actually, I smell Shawn. I don't see the words "heliocentric," "PGP,"
> or "Ed" anywhere in the message, which takes out three Christmas
> fruitcakes I know of (lesser known, for good reason, than the three
> wise men.)
>
> Erik
> socalsw
Tell me how many planets there are in the solar system and I will show
you wise men.
That the main converstation here is discussing the structure of
celestial sphere geometry in the form of constellations,I assure you
that this astrological 'wisdom' is not just dominant but pandemic.
Tell me about how Mercury crossed the face of the Sun and I will show
you wise men.
Show me your magnification images and I will show you the wisdom of a
photographer but not an astronomer.
Wisdom indeed !,you have much to say about nothing while the
magnificence of the celestial arena is before you and the works of the
great men who have their works temporarily destroyed by drones of those
who live of wordplays and nothing else.
Turn your faces to the ground where they belong.
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Date: 03 Dec 2006 18:58:30
From: Rich
Subject: Re: An Ancient Computer Surprises Scientists
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Rick Evans wrote:
> NYTimes http://tinyurl.com/yjn7yl
>
> Also heard on NPR
> http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=3D6556419
>
> --
> Rick Evans
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> Lat +42=B0 11' 07"
> Lon -71=B0 04' 35"
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> http://www.chempensoftware.com
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> http://mysite.verizon.net/hiltonevans33050/astroimaging/astroimaging.htm
The accuracy of the "machining" of the gears in that object seems to be
beyond what the people's of those times were capable of. Are the they
sure it doesn't date from the 1500s?
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Date: 04 Dec 2006 19:00:12
From: Anthony Ayiomamitis
Subject: Re: An Ancient Computer Surprises Scientists
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Rich wrote:
> Rick Evans wrote:
>
>>NYTimes http://tinyurl.com/yjn7yl
>>
>>Also heard on NPR
>>http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=6556419
>>
>>--
>>Rick Evans
>>----------------------------------------------------------------
>>Lat +42° 11' 07"
>>Lon -71° 04' 35"
>>----------------------------------------------------------------
>>http://www.chempensoftware.com
>>----------------------------------------------------------------
>>http://mysite.verizon.net/hiltonevans33050/astroimaging/astroimaging.htm
>
>
> The accuracy of the "machining" of the gears in that object seems to be
> beyond what the people's of those times were capable of. Are the they
> sure it doesn't date from the 1500s?
>
Folks,
I visited the National Archaeological Museum of Athens yesterday and
took a large number of photos. Some of the best ones are available on my
website at http://www.perseus.gr/Astro-Greek-Archae-Astr-Antikythera.htm
... as for Rich's comment, it was found within a shipwreck which
contained statues, amphora and many other items from the time (80 BC).
Anthony.
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