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Main
Date: 01 Jul 2007 16:19:01
From: mitch
Subject: Venus and Saturn?
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The sky map I looked at is all wrong.
Saturn at about 05:30 UTC was easily 2 or 3 degrees
away from Venus as they were setting. The sky map shows them to be a lot
closer..what gives?
http://www.fourmilab.ch/cgi-bin/Yoursky
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Date: 04 Jul 2007 08:07:14
From: laura halliday
Subject: Re: Venus and Saturn?
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I had a look off my balcony at dusk last night (0500 UTC,
4 July) and found, as expected, that Venus and Saturn
were a lot farther apart.
While they were still comfortably in the field of my
7x50 binoculars, they were only just in the field of
my 20x80s.
Venus was a tiny fat crescent in the 20x80s, while
I could see the rings and globe of Saturn as well.
When the ring inclination was larger I could only
see Saturn as a yellow oval.
Laura Halliday VE7LDH "That's a totally illegal,
Grid: CN89mg madcap scheme. I like it!"
ICBM: 49 16.05 N 122 56.92 W - H. Pearce
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Date: 03 Jul 2007 01:35:06
From: Glenn Holliday
Subject: Re: Venus and Saturn?
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mitch wrote:
> Saturn at about 05:30 UTC was easily 2 or 3 degrees
> away from Venus as they were setting. The sky map shows them to be a lot
> closer..what gives?
On Saturday evening in the eastern U.S. I photographed and measured
them about a finger width apart, Saturn above Venus.
--
Glenn Holliday holliday@acm.org
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Date: 03 Jul 2007 01:55:01
From: John Nichols
Subject: Re: Venus and Saturn?
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"Glenn Holliday" <holliday@acm.org > wrote in message
news:eJhii.5956$vG2.3394@trnddc02...
> mitch wrote:
>> Saturn at about 05:30 UTC was easily 2 or 3 degrees
>> away from Venus as they were setting. The sky map shows them to be a lot
>> closer..what gives?
>
> On Saturday evening in the eastern U.S. I photographed and measured
> them about a finger width apart, Saturn above Venus.
>
> --
Above?!?
When I observed them, Venus was above Saturn. Upstream, Matthew Ota's
picture also shows this relationship.
Color me confused.
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Date: 03 Jul 2007 02:09:23
From: Chris L Peterson
Subject: Re: Venus and Saturn?
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On Tue, 03 Jul 2007 01:55:01 GMT, "John Nichols"
<bejay@worldnet.att.net > wrote:
>Above?!?
>
>When I observed them, Venus was above Saturn. Upstream, Matthew Ota's
>picture also shows this relationship.
>
>Color me confused.
I don't know what you were looking at, but Saturn has been above Venus
for a long time, it was above it on Saturday, and remains above it
tonight (Jul 2). Sometime tomorrow they will have the same altitude, and
then for a few weeks Venus will be higher.
Matthew's picture is clearly rotated. Check the images on Spaceweather,
such as this:
http://www.spaceweather.com/archive.php?view=1&day=01&month=07&year=2007
for examples of what you should have seen.
_________________________________________________
Chris L Peterson
Cloudbait Observatory
http://www.cloudbait.com
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Date: 03 Jul 2007 10:10:18
From: John Nichols
Subject: Re: Venus and Saturn?
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"Chris L Peterson" <clp@alumni.caltech.edu > wrote in message
news:skbj835puvu722vr0c0cn1mmut6grlgvue@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 03 Jul 2007 01:55:01 GMT, "John Nichols"
> <bejay@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>
>>Above?!?
>>
>>When I observed them, Venus was above Saturn. Upstream, Matthew Ota's
>>picture also shows this relationship.
>>
>>Color me confused.
>
> I don't know what you were looking at, but Saturn has been above Venus
> for a long time, it was above it on Saturday, and remains above it
> tonight (Jul 2). Sometime tomorrow they will have the same altitude, and
> then for a few weeks Venus will be higher.
>
> Matthew's picture is clearly rotated. Check the images on Spaceweather,
> such as this:
> http://www.spaceweather.com/archive.php?view=1&day=01&month=07&year=2007
> for examples of what you should have seen.
>
> _________________________________________________
I really wish I had been able to take a picture of what I saw, but thanks,
Chris.
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Date: 03 Jul 2007 18:23:39
From: John Nichols
Subject: Re: Venus and Saturn?
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"John Nichols" <bejay@worldnet.att.net > wrote in message
news:egpii.141308$Sa4.62401@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
>
> "Chris L Peterson" <clp@alumni.caltech.edu> wrote in message
> news:skbj835puvu722vr0c0cn1mmut6grlgvue@4ax.com...
>> On Tue, 03 Jul 2007 01:55:01 GMT, "John Nichols"
>> <bejay@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>>
>>>Above?!?
>>>
>>>When I observed them, Venus was above Saturn. Upstream, Matthew Ota's
>>>picture also shows this relationship.
>>>
>>>Color me confused.
>>
>> I don't know what you were looking at, but Saturn has been above Venus
>> for a long time, it was above it on Saturday, and remains above it
>> tonight (Jul 2). Sometime tomorrow they will have the same altitude, and
>> then for a few weeks Venus will be higher.
>>
<snippage >
I think I've figured this out. My focuser, which is a Vixen focuser, and
which is attached to a refractor, allows me to turn the eyepiece to observe
more comfortably. When I do, this of course rotates the image. When I
observe the Moon I keep this in mind and try to get a proper orientation.
With the planets I tend to forget, which must be what I did last Saturday.
This would explain why I saw them reversed from each other.
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Date: 03 Jul 2007 16:44:35
From: Rob Johnson
Subject: Re: Venus and Saturn?
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In article <egpii.141308$Sa4.62401@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net >,
"John Nichols" <bejay@worldnet.att.net > wrote:
>"Chris L Peterson" <clp@alumni.caltech.edu> wrote in message
>news:skbj835puvu722vr0c0cn1mmut6grlgvue@4ax.com...
>> On Tue, 03 Jul 2007 01:55:01 GMT, "John Nichols"
>> <bejay@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>>
>>>Above?!?
>>>
>>>When I observed them, Venus was above Saturn. Upstream, Matthew Ota's
>>>picture also shows this relationship.
>>>
>>>Color me confused.
>>
>> I don't know what you were looking at, but Saturn has been above Venus
>> for a long time, it was above it on Saturday, and remains above it
>> tonight (Jul 2). Sometime tomorrow they will have the same altitude, and
>> then for a few weeks Venus will be higher.
>>
>> Matthew's picture is clearly rotated. Check the images on Spaceweather,
>> such as this:
>> http://www.spaceweather.com/archive.php?view=1&day=01&month=07&year=2007
>> for examples of what you should have seen.
>>
>> _________________________________________________
>I really wish I had been able to take a picture of what I saw, but thanks,
>Chris.
Both Matthew and I took pictures of what we saw, and our pictures
show that on both 30 June and 1 July, Venus and Saturn were less
than 50' apart. The closest approach was at about 8 AM PDT (15h UT)
on 1 July, about half way between Matthew's image and mine. At
closest approach, they were less than 40' apart.
By the way, my image is also rotated, about 53 degrees clockwise.
Saturn was 41'05" away about 15.6 degrees clockwise from straight up.
Rob Johnson <rob@trash.whim.org >
take out the trash before replying
to view any ASCII art, display article in a monospaced font
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Date: 03 Jul 2007 04:18:39
From: mitch
Subject: Re: Venus and Saturn?
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Is Saturn crapping on Venus??
"Chris L Peterson" <clp@alumni.caltech.edu > wrote in message
news:skbj835puvu722vr0c0cn1mmut6grlgvue@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 03 Jul 2007 01:55:01 GMT, "John Nichols"
> <bejay@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>
>>Above?!?
>>
>>When I observed them, Venus was above Saturn. Upstream, Matthew Ota's
>>picture also shows this relationship.
>>
>>Color me confused.
>
> I don't know what you were looking at, but Saturn has been above Venus
> for a long time, it was above it on Saturday, and remains above it
> tonight (Jul 2). Sometime tomorrow they will have the same altitude, and
> then for a few weeks Venus will be higher.
>
> Matthew's picture is clearly rotated. Check the images on Spaceweather,
> such as this:
> http://www.spaceweather.com/archive.php?view=1&day=01&month=07&year=2007
> for examples of what you should have seen.
>
> _________________________________________________
>
> Chris L Peterson
> Cloudbait Observatory
> http://www.cloudbait.com
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Date: 02 Jul 2007 03:10:25
From:
Subject: Re: Venus and Saturn?
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On Jul 1, 12:19 pm, "mitch" <m...@nospam.net > wrote:
> The sky map I looked at is all wrong.
> Saturn at about 05:30 UTC was easily 2 or 3 degrees
> away from Venus as they were setting.
I suspect you're suffering from the Moon illusion, where things
(including planet pairings) look bigger (or farther) than they really
are when close to the horizon. In fact, Saturn and Venus are still
just under 1 degree apart as I write this. They have been closer than
2 degrees since 11 UT on Thursday, June 28.
- Tony Flanders
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Date: 02 Jul 2007 15:33:48
From: mitch
Subject: Re: Venus and Saturn?
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<tony_flanders@yahoo.com > wrote in message
news:1183371025.031684.161570@k79g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
> On Jul 1, 12:19 pm, "mitch" <m...@nospam.net> wrote:
>
>> The sky map I looked at is all wrong.
>> Saturn at about 05:30 UTC was easily 2 or 3 degrees
>> away from Venus as they were setting.
>
> I suspect you're suffering from the Moon illusion, where things
> (including planet pairings) look bigger (or farther) than they really
> are when close to the horizon. In fact, Saturn and Venus are still
> just under 1 degree apart as I write this. They have been closer than
> 2 degrees since 11 UT on Thursday, June 28.
>
> - Tony Flanders
Cloudiness was the problem last night but I did see them .
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Date: 01 Jul 2007 19:55:15
From: Anthony Ayiomamitis
Subject: Re: Venus and Saturn?
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Mitch,
You may be a day premature. For us in Europe, things get close this
evening with a separation of about 0.5 degrees.
Anthony.
mitch wrote:
> The sky map I looked at is all wrong.
> Saturn at about 05:30 UTC was easily 2 or 3 degrees
> away from Venus as they were setting. The sky map shows them to be a lot
> closer..what gives?
> http://www.fourmilab.ch/cgi-bin/Yoursky
>
>
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Date: 01 Jul 2007 09:55:00
From: laura halliday
Subject: Re: Venus and Saturn?
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On Jul 1, 9:19 am, "mitch" <m...@nospam.net > wrote:
> The sky map I looked at is all wrong.
> Saturn at about 05:30 UTC was easily 2 or 3 degrees
> away from Venus as they were setting. The sky map shows them to be a lot
> closer..what gives?http://www.fourmilab.ch/cgi-bin/Yoursky
They were both in a medium-power telescope field
last night (0500 UTC 1 July), and will be closer tonight.
Venus was a fat crescent, and Saturn was a little
yellow ball with a washer around it. The two planets
were almost vertical.
Maybe something is wrong with your observing?
Laura Halliday VE7LDH "That's a totally illegal,
Grid: CN89mg madcap scheme. I like it!"
ICBM: 49 16.05 N 122 56.92 W - H. Pearce
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Date: 01 Jul 2007 18:15:16
From: mitch
Subject: Re: Venus and Saturn?
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"laura halliday" <marsgal42@hotmail.com > wrote in message
news:1183308900.461704.286970@i38g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
> On Jul 1, 9:19 am, "mitch" <m...@nospam.net> wrote:
>> The sky map I looked at is all wrong.
>> Saturn at about 05:30 UTC was easily 2 or 3 degrees
>> away from Venus as they were setting. The sky map shows them to be a lot
>> closer..what gives?http://www.fourmilab.ch/cgi-bin/Yoursky
>
> They were both in a medium-power telescope field
> last night (0500 UTC 1 July), and will be closer tonight.
> Venus was a fat crescent, and Saturn was a little
> yellow ball with a washer around it. The two planets
> were almost vertical.
>
> Maybe something is wrong with your observing?
Nope..I observed at 40 - 150 X's in daylight mid and late afternoon in
Calgary
and was puzzled I didn't see Saturn till late evening and quite separated.
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