| |
Main
Date: 11 Sep 2007 07:54:14
From: Tom 07
Subject: Re:BRUCE KAMIAT RESPONDS TO LIBELOUS ACCUSATIONS POSTED ON THIS LIST
|
As I was not a member of this group, I was not aware that Bruce Kamiat
posted this message about myself, until a friend informed me. Clearly,
I must respond. I do not intend to follow up with any further
responses...unless he decides to provoke me again. Even in that case,
I will try hard not to pay any attention to him.
On Sep 3, 2007 6:29 pm, Bruce Kamiat <SN195...@prodigy.net > wrote:
"Tom Clabough for a long time pursued a macropolitical agenda:
using John Pazmino's Yahoo group, ostensibly an amateur astronomy
forum, as a platform for verbally assaulting Democrats and others who
disagree with his far-right-wing politics."
First of all, I didn't begin posting political responses on that
group
until AFTER many
left-wing and Republican-bashing messages were posted. Second, the
extent of my "far-right-wing politics" is to state my objection to
the
FACT that the democratic party has moved waaaay to the radical left.
In fact, two democrat party House chairmen, John Conyers and Charlie
Rangel, OPENLY work with Revolutionary-Communist organizations! One
of
the organizations, The Revolutionary Communist Party, actually calls
for the violent overthrow of the American government.
>From the website of the Revolutionary Communist Party, parent org
behind World Can't Wait--Drive Out the Bush Regime, the same
organization that democrat Chair of the House Judiciary Committee,
John Conyers of Michigan, endorsed, then gave a SPEECH to!
The RCP "Mission Statement": "Create Public Opinion, Seize Power! We
are preparing minds and organizing forces for the time when there is
a
major crack in the system, whenever it comes and wherever it comes
from: an opening that makes it possible to bring the future
Revolutionary Army of the Proletariat (R.A.P.) into the field and
wage
a revolutionary armed struggle that actually has a chance of winning.
And we have said that building our party itself is the most important
part of organizing forces for revolution. This is true now, and it is
true looking forward to the creation of that future R.A.P. and the
waging of that armed struggle. ":
(see link for details)
http://revcom.us/a/v20/1000-1009/1000/barw.htm
On Oct 5, 2006, Democrat Chairman of the House Judiciary Committee,
John Conyers Jr, the same who is out leading an "investigation" into
the Bush White House, *gave a speech* to the World Can't Wait--Drive
Out the Bush Regime organization.
(see link for details)
http://www.worldcantwait.net/index.php?option=3Dcom_content&task=3Dview&i...
Or, if the long url above breaks up:
http://tinyurl.com/ygx9w6
Before that, he openly ENDORSED the movement!
See "Endorsers of the Call to Drive Out the Bush Regime Include...".
(John Conyers' endorsement appears immediately after Ward
Churchill's)
(see link for details)
http://worldcantwait.net/index.php?option=3Dcom_content&task=3Dview&id=3D25=
.=2E.
Or, if the long url above breaks up:
http://tinyurl.com/ef6z6
FACT: World Can't Wait--Drive Out the Bush Regime is a MAOIST-
revolutionary movement initiated and controlled by the Revolutionary
Communist Party!
(scroll down the list that appears to find the World Can't Wait
organization --rwor.org is the website of the Revolutionary Communist
Party) :
(see link for details)
http://rwor.org/a/rwlink/links.htm
>From David Horowitz's FrontpageMag.com /DiscoverTheNetworks.org:
Profile: World Can't Wait--Drive Out the Bush Regime (WCW)
*Revolutionary communist movement that stages protests against the
Bush administration
*Organizes college and high-school students
*Founded in June 2005 by Charles Clark Kissinger, a longtime leader
of the Revolutionary Communist Party
(see link for details)
http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/groupProfile.asp?grpid=3D7213
Here's the Revolutionary Communist Party (see link below) boasting of
a FULL PAGE 'World Can't Wait--Drive Out the Bush Regime' ad of
theirs which actually appeared in the New York Times.
(either "rwor.org" or "revcom.us" takes you to the website of the
Revolutionary Communist Party). The NY Times allowed a 2nd full-page
RCP/WCW ad to be run several months later! In fact, they are, or have
very recently, ran another large ad.
(see link for details)
http://www.rwor.org/a/028/who-hated-bush-ad.htm
Here's a photo of the current chairman of the House Ways and Means
Committee, DEMOCRAT Charlie Rangel, at the podium of a Workers World
Party /
Troops Out Now demonstration here in New York City. Also, in this set
of photos are terrorist and communist attorneys Lynn Steward and
Ramsey Clark. They were at the same WWP event in which Rangel spoke.
Ramsey Clark is the founder and chair of the International Action
Center, as well as the former Attorney General under democrat prez
LBJ. The IAC works very closely with WWP. In fact, they even share
the
same office space in NYC.
http://www.workers.org/march19/index2.html
Here's a letter former, now deceased, chairman of the Workers World
party, Sam Marcy, sent to "Comrade Kim Jong-Il". It's from the
Workers World Party's own website (workers.org) :
"On July 9 (1994), Workers World Party Chairperson Sam Marcy sent the
following statement to Comrade Kim Jong Il, the Central Committee of
the Workers Party of Korea and the State Funeral Committee of
President Kim Il Sung." :
"Dear Comrade Kim Jong Il... Comrade Kim Il Sung devoted his whole
life to the Korean people's struggle for national self-determination
and the international working-class struggle for socialist
emancipation. With his leadership, the Korean people defeated the
Japanese colonial occupation and soon after brought about the first
defeat of the U.S. imperialist military machine....
Workers World Party values our close, comradely relations with the
Workers Party of Korea very highly. We are proud to have known Kim Il
Sung as a great leader and a comrade in the international communist
movement. And it is with the most profound sense of loss that we mark
his passing. Yet it is also with the greatest revolutionary optimism
that we are confident that Comrade Kim Il Sung's legacy will live on
with your efforts to win new victories for the Korean people.... With
comradely solidarity, Sam Marcy Chairperson, Workers World Party":
(see link for details)
http://www.workers.org/marcy/cd/sam94/1994html/s940721.htm
>From wikipedia.com:
The WWP has organized, directed or participated in many coalition
organizations for various causes, typically anti-imperialist in
nature. The International Action Center, which counts many WWP
members
as leading activists, founded the Act Now To Stop War and End Racism
(ANSWER) coalition shortly after 9/11, and has run both the All
People's Congress (APC) and the International Action Center (IAC) for
many years. The APC and the IAC in particular share a large degree of
overlap in their memberships with cadre in the WWP. In 2004 , a youth
group close to the WWP called Fight Imperialism Stand Together (FIST)
was founded.
(see link for details)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Workers_World_Party
And here's old (democrat) Charlie Rangel again with terrorist
attorney
Lynn
Steward and International Action Center (IAC) leader Ramsey Clark, at
the Workers World Party/Troops Out Now rally:
(see link for details)
http://www.workers.org/march19/index2.html
As for Bruce Kamiat's "moderate" political positions, he once
admitted
to me he attended an annual socialists scholars event at BMCC, a 2-
year community college I attended during the eighties. The event
included an indoctrination/propaganda campaign aimed at recruiting
young naive college kids into the socialist and/or revolutionary
communist movement. Kamiat also once stated that he went over to
communist Nicaragua during the eighties to 'see for himself' what was
happening there. Nothing wrong or illegal with any of this of course,
but it does take away a bit from his claim that he is a standard
liberal democrat. He also defended a so-called "anti-war" rally in
NYC
several years ago which was actually led by communist activist Leslie
Cagan, who is/was? the founder and co-chair of the org Committees of
Correspondence for Democracy and Socialism/CCDS. The CCDS is an
offshoot of Communist Party USA. Obviously, any group or individual
who supports "Revolution", such as the Cuban revolution, cannot
possibly be truly "anti-war". In fact ALL of the popular "anti-war"
coalitions around today were initiated by communist organizations. We
have:
United For Peace and Justice, chaired by the above mentioned, Castro
supporter Leslie Cagan.
Troops Out Now and A.N.S.W.E.R., both initiated and controlled by
Workers World Party leadership or 'former' leadership.
World Can't Wait--Drive Out the Bush Regime, initiated and controlled
by the Revolutionary Communist Party (RCP).
Bruce Kamiat <SN195...@prodigy.net > wrote:
"Clabough accuses me of actual felonious acts (brandishing an
unlicensed firearm with menacing intent) and potential for deadly
violence. This is therefore far the
more serious of the two. There are three basic components to this
libel: that I threatened him with a gun; that I said "you never know
who we might shoot"; and that I said "don't approach me in the park
again," with various ominous implications he tries to attribute to
this entreaty."
I never mentioned anything about your gun being "illegal"
Anyway, here is exactly what Bruce Kamiat said in his message:
"By the way, don't approach me in the park again, Tom.
Just don't...".
And when I reminded the group of an earlier threat he made ("You
never
know who we might shoot!"), in which he included the following direct
link to a photo of
himself holding a gun while lurking in some decrepit old
hallway somewhere, he reissued the threat by saying,
"I'm glad you remember that, Tom. Keep it in mind."
Sound like "sarcasm" to you?
The photo, which had been in the group's file section, has since been
removed. And since John Pazmino rarely, if ever, removes content from
his group, I suspect that Bruce Kamiat himself removed the photo.
On Sep 3, 6:29 pm, Bruce <SN195...@prodigy.net > wrote:
- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
> BRUCE KAMIAT RESPONDS TO LIBELOUS ACCUSATIONS POSTED ON THIS LIST AND
> ELSEWHERE ON THE NET BY JOHN PAZMINO AND TOM CLABOUGH
> I only recently became aware of these libelous posts to this and other
> lists on the Internet. These posted libels are accessible by Google
> search, so they are viewable by family, friends, and current and
> potential employers; therefore, I feel compelled to respond, although
> some time has passed since they were posted. I apologize for the fact
> that this response, while necessary, is no longer a timely one. I also
> apologize for its length. I will not burden the readership and myself
> by including copies here of the ugly posts to which I am now
> responding. If you, the reader, wish to see these, you may find them
> as I did-with a Google search on my full name. You will see the dozens
> of places on the Net on which these libels have been posted-a
> particularly dirty way to fight, don't you think?
> Fellow amateur astronomer, as you read this, imagine being yourself
> the target of this sort of treatment. You work hard to survive and to
> take care of those you love. You adopt a hobby of surpassing beauty
> that helps you to transcend the ugliness around you. Then you run into
> characters such as Pazmino and Clabough who try not only to poison
> your joy in the hobby by polluting it with such hostile and abusive
> behavior, but also to threaten your very livelihood, your very
> survival, to satisfy their own petty agendas. They even try to hurt
> other people in your life, outside of astronomy, who are vitally
> important to you! Thus you are forced to spend what little, precious
> spare time you have writing responses like this one to their slanders.
> What a way for them to treat a colleague who has never done either of
> them any harm!
> These libelous posts originally appeared on John Pazmino's own Yahoo
> group, on which I responded at the time. I did not then realize he had
> widely disseminated them elsewhere on the Internet. John Pazmino has
> now disallowed any response on his own group from the victims of his
> harassment and of whatever libelous statements about me or others he
> may post there in the future.
> BACKGROUND AND CONTEXT
> John Pazmino and Tom Clabough have been conducting a vendetta for some
> years against the Amateur Astronomers Association of New York (AAA)
> and its board of directors. Pazmino and Clabough came into conflict
> with that organization over personal, ego-related issues and have
> adopted harassment and slander as their preferred modes of conducting
> their feud. As a board member, I have been a target of theirs. John
> Pazmino has particularly targeted me since the day I insisted he stop
> handing out flyers attacking the organization and its members at an
> AAA workshop I chaired at the time. That was apparently enough to put
> me on the other side of the line as far as he was concerned. Still,
> John had far less reason for his animosity toward me than toward other
> members of the board.
> John had been asked to resign from the AAA's board of directors for
> conduct unbecoming a board member. That conduct included the wide
> distribution, within and outside the club, of a letter that used
> extremely obscene language to attack other board members, particularly
> the women on the board. I could not support his retention on the board
> after that; yet of the 18 board members, I was the only one who, then
> and thereafter, opposed his expulsion from the club altogether. I
> remembered that, in his saner days, he had done a great deal of work
> for the AAA and been a real asset in many ways. I hoped to avoid a
> split in the club and hoped he would calm down and return to reason.
> My arguments on those lines prevailed for a time, but his conduct
> gradually worsened to the point of forcing the organization to finally
> expel him regardless. Even then, while I could no longer argue against
> his expulsion, I abstained rather than vote for it; and I chastised
> certain members of the board whose behavior I believed had pushed John
> farther over the edge. I felt very sad that things had gone that way,
> but it was mostly John's own fault.
> He frequently peppers his "Pazminibits," "NYC Events," and other
> supposed astronomy-news articles with digs at the AAA and its members.
> These are usually at least partly, and sometimes entirely, false and
> are just part of his ongoing feud. The worst of these he has entitled
> "AAA News," a subtle deceptive tactic designed so that the unwary
> might mistake these bulletins as coming from the AAA itself. In one
> typical example, his "Pazminibits" "news" column recently introduced a
> myth that AAA president Rich Rosenberg and I had formed a new club.
> The column vaguely referred to a "controversy" in which unspecified
> members of this new club objected to our leadership. In reality, there
> was no new club and no controversy; that was fiction. All that had
> actually happened was that John Pazmino's sidekick, Tom Clabough, had
> joined a long-established astronomy Yahoo group of which Rich and I
> were moderators. The group owner (neither Rich nor I) at first gave
> Clabough the benefit of the doubt and allowed him to stay, but
> eventually kicked Tom off for reverting to habit and attempting to
> post offensive, inappropriate material (see two paragraphs below).
> In addition to supporting John Pazmino's micropolitical feud with the
> AAA, Tom Clabough for a long time pursued a macropolitical agenda:
> using John Pazmino's Yahoo group, ostensibly an amateur astronomy
> forum, as a platform for verbally assaulting Democrats and others who
> disagree with his far-right-wing politics. For years, until new
> moderators recently stopped him, he filled John Pazmino's Yahoo group
> with political posts, incessantly baiting his opponents to draw us out
> and then launching personal attacks. This was a mostly successful
> tactic to drive us out of the group. All who disagreed with Tom
> Clabough's politics had to choose between leaving the group, remaining
> silent under his barrage of insults, or speaking up and being
> subjected to personal attacks such as you see he has leveled at me.
> Thus silencing or driving off his opposition, he flooded the list with
> his political propaganda almost unopposed. I drew his particular ire
> for refusing to quit or to be silent. I leave it to you, the reader,
> to imagine what kind of person tries to take over an amateur astronomy
> group for the purpose of spreading macropolitical propaganda,
> aggressively insulting his fellow amateur astronomers and using
> Internet libel to threaten the livelihoods of those who stand up to
> him. This was the context in which the libels that I'm addressing here
> occurred.
> Tom Clabough is obsessive in his attacks, and he hounded me
> relentlessly for about five years until the advent of the new group
> moderators mentioned above, directing at me every sort of insult and
> provocation-even pursuing me to another astronomy Yahoo group (see two
> paragraphs above) where I and others had gone specifically to escape
> from him and to share our astronomy interests unmolested. In the most
> recent case (as of this writing), he attempted to post a message on
> that group directly mocking my personal belief in God in a rather vile
> fashion. I am thankful to the owner of that group who refused to
> permit it, despite Tom's attempts to intimidate him by verbally
> bashing him on Pazmino's group (again, see above). If I were the sort
> of violent person Clabough disingenuously pretends to believe me to
> be, I would have creamed him long ago. He obviously knows that I am
> not such a person, as he has expended great effort in trying to drive
> me into a rage. This would be very self-destructive behavior if he
> really believed me to have the violent tendencies that he says he
> believes me to have. Despite his provocations, I never once laid a
> hand on him or raised my voice to him in person-just asked him to stay
> away from me. I admit that I have succumbed to rage at him on occasion
> to the extent of speaking to him quite harshly on John Pazmino's Yahoo
> group.
> BRUCE KAMIAT RESPONDS TO TOM CLABOUGH'S LIBEL
> I will respond to this libel first, as Clabough accuses me of actual
> felonious acts (brandishing an unlicensed firearm with menacing
> intent) and potential for deadly violence. This is therefore far the
> more serious of the two. There are three basic components to this
> libel: that I threatened him with a gun; that I said "you never know
> who we might shoot"; and that I said "don't approach me in the park
> again," with various ominous implications he tries to attribute to
> this entreaty. I will address these in reverse order, the most
> significant last.
> Tom Clabough's style is to make much use of out-of-context partial
> quotations to create extremely distorted impressions of those whom he
> libels. Additionally, he often rearranges fragments of quotations to
> create a different meaning or even puts quotation marks around
> complete fabrications to make it appear that others have said things
> they never did.
> The third component cited above, in which I told him not to approach
> me in the park, refers to my response to his frequent attempts to walk
> up to me in the park or at the museum and act as though we were great,
> warm friends, as though he had not just finished posting another set
> of insults and lies about me and others on the Yahoo group. I was
> getting awfully tired of this. I felt extreme anger at him and just
> wanted him to stay away from me.
> He had strenuously objected on the Yahoo group to the fact that I was
> a lifelong member of the Democratic Party and proud to be so. He had
> attempted to equate liberal Democrats with anarchists, Communists,
> terrorists, and supporters of Al-Qaeda. For my offense of being a
> liberal Democrat, he had publicly accused me of being a traitor to our
> nation. It requires an odd sort of mental disconnect to hurl such
> accusations repeatedly and incessantly at someone-not in the abstract,
> but at a direct, personal level-and then expect him to warmly welcome
> you with a smile. Perhaps those of you among the readers of this
> message ...
> read more =BB
|
|
| |
Date: 12 Sep 2007 19:42:54
From: Bruce
Subject: Re: BRUCE KAMIAT RESPONDS TO LIBELOUS ACCUSATIONS POSTED ON THIS LIST
|
Yes, let's stop torturing all these poor people on this list who never
harmed either of us.
All will be grateful for the relief.
Bruce Kamiat
____________
On Sep 12, 6:45 pm, Tom 07 <tomc...@yahoo.com > wrote:
> Right, I said unless you provoke me. And you did. Let's make a deal:
> I won't post any more followups on the matter if you don't. Agreed? A
> simple yes or no please. I'd much rather discuss astronomy with this
> group.
>
> On Sep 12, 8:08 am, Bruce <SN195...@prodigy.net> wrote:
>
> > On Sep 11, 2007 12:47 pm, Tom 07 <tomc...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > I do not intend to follow up with any further
> > responses...unless he decides to provoke me again. Even in that case,
> > I will try hard not to pay any attention to him.
>
> > _____________________
>
> > So much for his credibility.
>
> > Bruce Kamiat
>
> > _____________________
|
| |
Date: 12 Sep 2007 15:45:05
From: Tom 07
Subject: Re: BRUCE KAMIAT RESPONDS TO LIBELOUS ACCUSATIONS POSTED ON THIS LIST
|
Right, I said unless you provoke me. And you did. Let's make a deal:
I won't post any more followups on the matter if you don't. Agreed? A
simple yes or no please. I'd much rather discuss astronomy with this
group.
On Sep 12, 8:08 am, Bruce <SN195...@prodigy.net > wrote:
> On Sep 11, 2007 12:47 pm, Tom 07 <tomc...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> I do not intend to follow up with any further
> responses...unless he decides to provoke me again. Even in that case,
> I will try hard not to pay any attention to him.
>
> _____________________
>
> So much for his credibility.
>
> Bruce Kamiat
>
> _____________________
|
| |
Date: 12 Sep 2007 15:29:08
From: Tom 07
Subject: Re: BRUCE KAMIAT RESPONDS TO LIBELOUS ACCUSATIONS POSTED ON THIS LIST
|
On Sep 12, 10:25 am, mommycal...@gmail.com wrote:
>Nothing a good rightard for a good laugh in the morning.
>I thought this Bruce Kamiat stuff was nonsense,
>you merely proved that he was correct.
>It's sorry to see my home town fall as low as it has
In other words, you're another dopey liberal who supports today's
demonRat party. A party that moves more and more to the lunatic left
every day. How could you not be ashamed of your party? And why is it
that so few of you know how to write properly? "Nothing a good
rightard"? "It's sorry to see my home town..."? Perhaps your English
teacher was too busy filling your little brain with leftist
propaganda? lol.
Tom 07 <tomc...wrote:
On Oct 5, 2006, Democrat Chairman of the House Judiciary Committee,
John Conyers Jr, the same who is out leading an "investigation" into
the Bush White House, *gave a speech* to the World Can't Wait--Drive
Out the Bush Regime organization.
(see link for details--you'll need to stitch it back together first)
http://www.worldcantwait.net/index.php?
option=com_content&task=view&id=3114&Itemid=243
Or, if the long url above breaks up:
http://tinyurl.com/ygx9w6
Before that, he openly ENDORSED the movement!
See "Endorsers of the Call to Drive Out the Bush Regime Include...".
(John Conyers' endorsement appears immediately after Ward
Churchill's)
(see link for details--you'll need to stitch it back together first)
http://worldcantwait.net/index.php?option=com_
content&task=view&id=2538&Itemid=2
Or, if the long url above breaks up:
http://tinyurl.com/ef6z6
FACT: World Can't Wait--Drive Out the Bush Regime is a MAOIST-
revolutionary movement initiated and controlled by the Revolutionary
Communist Party!
(scroll down the list that appears to find the World Can't Wait
organization --rwor.org is the website of the Revolutionary Communist
Party) :
(see link for details)
http://rwor.org/a/rwlink/links.htm
>From David Horowitz's FrontpageMag.com /DiscoverTheNetworks.org:
Profile: World Can't Wait--Drive Out the Bush Regime (WCW)
*Revolutionary communist movement that stages protests against the
Bush administration
*Organizes college and high-school students
*Founded in June 2005 by Charles Clark Kissinger, a longtime leader
of the Revolutionary Communist Party
(see link for details)
http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/groupProfile.asp?grpid=7213
>From the website of the Revolutionary Communist Party, parent org
behind World Can't Wait--Drive Out the Bush Regime, the same
organization that democrat chair of the House Judiciary Committee,
John Conyers of Michigan, endorsed, then gave a SPEECH to!
The RCP "Mission Statement": "Create Public Opinion, Seize Power! We
are preparing minds and organizing forces for the time when there is
a major crack in the system, whenever it comes and wherever it comes
from: an opening that makes it possible to bring the future
Revolutionary Army of the Proletariat (R.A.P.) into the field and
wage a revolutionary armed struggle that actually has a chance of
winning.
And we have said that building our party itself is the most important
part of organizing forces for revolution. This is true now, and it is
true looking forward to the creation of that future R.A.P. and the
waging of that armed struggle. ":
(see link for details)
http://revcom.us/a/v20/1000-1009/1000/barw.htm
Here's the Revolutionary Communist Party (see link below) boasting of
a FULL PAGE 'World Can't Wait--Drive Out the Bush Regime' ad of
theirs which actually appeared in the New York Slimes.
(either "rwor.org" or "revcom.us" takes you to the website of the
Revolutionary Communist Party). The NY Times allowed a 2nd full-page
RCP/WCW ad to be run several months later! In fact, they are, or have
very recently, ran another large ad.
(see link for details)
http://www.rwor.org/a/028/who-hated-bush-ad.htm
SHAME on you "liberal democrats" for supporting such a party.
-
|
| |
Date: 12 Sep 2007 07:25:32
From:
Subject: Re: BRUCE KAMIAT RESPONDS TO LIBELOUS ACCUSATIONS POSTED ON THIS LIST
|
On Sep 12, 5:32 am, Tom 07 <tomc...@yahoo.com > wrote:
> On Sep 12, 12:09 am, Shave Bush's Ass <r...@mchsi.com> wrote:
>
> > Tell it to your lawyer.
>
> Excellent advice, "Shave Bush's Ass"!
> ..."Shave Bush's Ass"? Is this something you would like to do
> personally? lol. Why do you use such a title for participating in an
> astronomy forum? Are you, in fact, here to discuss astronomy?
>
> Tom 07 <tomc...wrote:
>
> On Oct 5, 2006, Democrat Chairman of the House Judiciary Committee,
> John Conyers Jr, the same who is out leading an "investigation" into
> the Bush White House, *gave a speech* to the World Can't Wait--Drive
> Out the Bush Regime organization.
>
> (see link for details--you'll need to stitch it back together first)http://www.worldcantwait.net/index.php?
> option=com_content&task=view&id=3114&Itemid=243
>
> Or, if the long url above breaks up:http://tinyurl.com/ygx9w6
>
> Before that, he openly ENDORSED the movement!
> See "Endorsers of the Call to Drive Out the Bush Regime Include...".
> (John Conyers' endorsement appears immediately after Ward
> Churchill's)
>
> (see link for details--you'll need to stitch it back together first)http://worldcantwait.net/index.php?option=com_
> content&task=view&id=2538&Itemid=2
>
> Or, if the long url above breaks up:http://tinyurl.com/ef6z6
>
> FACT: World Can't Wait--Drive Out the Bush Regime is a MAOIST-
> revolutionary movement initiated and controlled by the Revolutionary
> Communist Party!
> (scroll down the list that appears to find the World Can't Wait
> organization --rwor.org is the website of the Revolutionary Communist
> Party) :
> (see link for details)http://rwor.org/a/rwlink/links.htm
>
> >From David Horowitz's FrontpageMag.com /DiscoverTheNetworks.org:
>
> Profile: World Can't Wait--Drive Out the Bush Regime (WCW)
>
> *Revolutionary communist movement that stages protests against the
> Bush administration
>
> *Organizes college and high-school students
>
> *Founded in June 2005 by Charles Clark Kissinger, a longtime leader
> of the Revolutionary Communist Party
>
> (see link for details)http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/groupProfile.asp?grpid=7213
>
> >From the website of the Revolutionary Communist Party, parent org
>
> behind World Can't Wait--Drive Out the Bush Regime, the same
> organization that democrat chair of the House Judiciary Committee,
> John Conyers of Michigan, endorsed, then gave a SPEECH to!
>
> The RCP "Mission Statement": "Create Public Opinion, Seize Power! We
> are preparing minds and organizing forces for the time when there is
> a major crack in the system, whenever it comes and wherever it comes
> from: an opening that makes it possible to bring the future
> Revolutionary Army of the Proletariat (R.A.P.) into the field and
> wage a revolutionary armed struggle that actually has a chance of
> winning.
>
> And we have said that building our party itself is the most important
> part of organizing forces for revolution. This is true now, and it is
> true looking forward to the creation of that future R.A.P. and the
> waging of that armed struggle. ":
>
> (see link for details)http://revcom.us/a/v20/1000-1009/1000/barw.htm
>
> Here's the Revolutionary Communist Party (see link below) boasting of
> a FULL PAGE 'World Can't Wait--Drive Out the Bush Regime' ad of
> theirs which actually appeared in the New York Slimes.
> (either "rwor.org" or "revcom.us" takes you to the website of the
> Revolutionary Communist Party). The NY Times allowed a 2nd full-page
> RCP/WCW ad to be run several months later! In fact, they are, or have
> very recently, ran another large ad.
> (see link for details)http://www.rwor.org/a/028/who-hated-bush-ad.htm
> -
Nothing a good rightard for a good laugh in the morning. I thought
this Bruce Kamiat stuff was nonsense, you merely proved that he was
correct. It's sorry to see my home town fall as low as it has
|
| |
Date: 12 Sep 2007 05:08:53
From: Bruce
Subject: Re: BRUCE KAMIAT RESPONDS TO LIBELOUS ACCUSATIONS POSTED ON THIS LIST
|
On Sep 11, 2007 12:47 pm, Tom 07 <tomc...@yahoo.com > wrote:
I do not intend to follow up with any further
responses...unless he decides to provoke me again. Even in that case,
I will try hard not to pay any attention to him.
_____________________
So much for his credibility.
Bruce Kamiat
_____________________
On Sep 12, 6:32 am, Tom 07 <tomc...@yahoo.com > wrote:
> On Sep 12, 12:09 am, Shave Bush's Ass <r...@mchsi.com> wrote:
>
> > Tell it to your lawyer.
>
> Excellent advice, "Shave Bush's Ass"!
> ..."Shave Bush's Ass"? Is this something you would like to do
> personally? lol. Why do you use such a title for participating in an
> astronomy forum? Are you, in fact, here to discuss astronomy?
>
> Tom 07 <tomc...wrote:
>
> On Oct 5, 2006, Democrat Chairman of the House Judiciary Committee,
> John Conyers Jr, the same who is out leading an "investigation" into
> the Bush White House, *gave a speech* to the World Can't Wait--Drive
> Out the Bush Regime organization.
>
> (see link for details--you'll need to stitch it back together first)http://www.worldcantwait.net/index.php?
> option=com_content&task=view&id=3114&Itemid=243
>
> Or, if the long url above breaks up:http://tinyurl.com/ygx9w6
>
> Before that, he openly ENDORSED the movement!
> See "Endorsers of the Call to Drive Out the Bush Regime Include...".
> (John Conyers' endorsement appears immediately after Ward
> Churchill's)
>
> (see link for details--you'll need to stitch it back together first)http://worldcantwait.net/index.php?option=com_
> content&task=view&id=2538&Itemid=2
>
> Or, if the long url above breaks up:http://tinyurl.com/ef6z6
>
> FACT: World Can't Wait--Drive Out the Bush Regime is a MAOIST-
> revolutionary movement initiated and controlled by the Revolutionary
> Communist Party!
> (scroll down the list that appears to find the World Can't Wait
> organization --rwor.org is the website of the Revolutionary Communist
> Party) :
> (see link for details)http://rwor.org/a/rwlink/links.htm
>
> >From David Horowitz's FrontpageMag.com /DiscoverTheNetworks.org:
>
> Profile: World Can't Wait--Drive Out the Bush Regime (WCW)
>
> *Revolutionary communist movement that stages protests against the
> Bush administration
>
> *Organizes college and high-school students
>
> *Founded in June 2005 by Charles Clark Kissinger, a longtime leader
> of the Revolutionary Communist Party
>
> (see link for details)http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/groupProfile.asp?grpid=7213
>
> >From the website of the Revolutionary Communist Party, parent org
>
> behind World Can't Wait--Drive Out the Bush Regime, the same
> organization that democrat chair of the House Judiciary Committee,
> John Conyers of Michigan, endorsed, then gave a SPEECH to!
>
> The RCP "Mission Statement": "Create Public Opinion, Seize Power! We
> are preparing minds and organizing forces for the time when there is
> a major crack in the system, whenever it comes and wherever it comes
> from: an opening that makes it possible to bring the future
> Revolutionary Army of the Proletariat (R.A.P.) into the field and
> wage a revolutionary armed struggle that actually has a chance of
> winning.
>
> And we have said that building our party itself is the most important
> part of organizing forces for revolution. This is true now, and it is
> true looking forward to the creation of that future R.A.P. and the
> waging of that armed struggle. ":
>
> (see link for details)http://revcom.us/a/v20/1000-1009/1000/barw.htm
>
> Here's the Revolutionary Communist Party (see link below) boasting of
> a FULL PAGE 'World Can't Wait--Drive Out the Bush Regime' ad of
> theirs which actually appeared in the New York Slimes.
> (either "rwor.org" or "revcom.us" takes you to the website of the
> Revolutionary Communist Party). The NY Times allowed a 2nd full-page
> RCP/WCW ad to be run several months later! In fact, they are, or have
> very recently, ran another large ad.
> (see link for details)http://www.rwor.org/a/028/who-hated-bush-ad.htm
> -
|
| |
Date: 12 Sep 2007 03:32:27
From: Tom 07
Subject: Re: BRUCE KAMIAT RESPONDS TO LIBELOUS ACCUSATIONS POSTED ON THIS LIST
|
On Sep 12, 12:09 am, Shave Bush's Ass <r...@mchsi.com > wrote:
> Tell it to your lawyer.
>
Excellent advice, "Shave Bush's Ass"!
..."Shave Bush's Ass"? Is this something you would like to do
personally? lol. Why do you use such a title for participating in an
astronomy forum? Are you, in fact, here to discuss astronomy?
Tom 07 <tomc...wrote:
On Oct 5, 2006, Democrat Chairman of the House Judiciary Committee,
John Conyers Jr, the same who is out leading an "investigation" into
the Bush White House, *gave a speech* to the World Can't Wait--Drive
Out the Bush Regime organization.
(see link for details--you'll need to stitch it back together first)
http://www.worldcantwait.net/index.php?
option=com_content&task=view&id=3114&Itemid=243
Or, if the long url above breaks up:
http://tinyurl.com/ygx9w6
Before that, he openly ENDORSED the movement!
See "Endorsers of the Call to Drive Out the Bush Regime Include...".
(John Conyers' endorsement appears immediately after Ward
Churchill's)
(see link for details--you'll need to stitch it back together first)
http://worldcantwait.net/index.php?option=com_
content&task=view&id=2538&Itemid=2
Or, if the long url above breaks up:
http://tinyurl.com/ef6z6
FACT: World Can't Wait--Drive Out the Bush Regime is a MAOIST-
revolutionary movement initiated and controlled by the Revolutionary
Communist Party!
(scroll down the list that appears to find the World Can't Wait
organization --rwor.org is the website of the Revolutionary Communist
Party) :
(see link for details)
http://rwor.org/a/rwlink/links.htm
>From David Horowitz's FrontpageMag.com /DiscoverTheNetworks.org:
Profile: World Can't Wait--Drive Out the Bush Regime (WCW)
*Revolutionary communist movement that stages protests against the
Bush administration
*Organizes college and high-school students
*Founded in June 2005 by Charles Clark Kissinger, a longtime leader
of the Revolutionary Communist Party
(see link for details)
http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/groupProfile.asp?grpid=7213
>From the website of the Revolutionary Communist Party, parent org
behind World Can't Wait--Drive Out the Bush Regime, the same
organization that democrat chair of the House Judiciary Committee,
John Conyers of Michigan, endorsed, then gave a SPEECH to!
The RCP "Mission Statement": "Create Public Opinion, Seize Power! We
are preparing minds and organizing forces for the time when there is
a major crack in the system, whenever it comes and wherever it comes
from: an opening that makes it possible to bring the future
Revolutionary Army of the Proletariat (R.A.P.) into the field and
wage a revolutionary armed struggle that actually has a chance of
winning.
And we have said that building our party itself is the most important
part of organizing forces for revolution. This is true now, and it is
true looking forward to the creation of that future R.A.P. and the
waging of that armed struggle. ":
(see link for details)
http://revcom.us/a/v20/1000-1009/1000/barw.htm
Here's the Revolutionary Communist Party (see link below) boasting of
a FULL PAGE 'World Can't Wait--Drive Out the Bush Regime' ad of
theirs which actually appeared in the New York Slimes.
(either "rwor.org" or "revcom.us" takes you to the website of the
Revolutionary Communist Party). The NY Times allowed a 2nd full-page
RCP/WCW ad to be run several months later! In fact, they are, or have
very recently, ran another large ad.
(see link for details)
http://www.rwor.org/a/028/who-hated-bush-ad.htm
-
|
| |
Date: 12 Sep 2007 03:07:35
From: Tom 07
Subject: Re: BRUCE KAMIAT RESPONDS TO LIBELOUS ACCUSATIONS POSTED ON THIS LIST
|
On Sep 11, 1:57 pm, mommycal...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Sep 11, 11:32 am, Rich <rander3...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > I'd like to take all you clowns who for whatever reason can't confine
> > yourself to the political groups and shoot your live into the Sun.
>
> Normally Rich and I are on oppposite side, but this time I agree with
> him!
> Take your bullshit somewhere else
"shoot your live into the Sun"? Sounds like an intelligent group
you've got here. In any case, I won't post anything else on the matter
if Kamiat doesn't, but I might stick around for your scientific
discussions. That could be fun.
|
| |
Date: 11 Sep 2007 23:09:33
From: Shave Bush's Ass
Subject: Re: BRUCE KAMIAT RESPONDS TO LIBELOUS ACCUSATIONS POSTED ON THIS LIST
|
--------------F1A6CB18E3C482E1EBB27F4B
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Tell it to your lawyer.
Tom 07 wrote:
> As I was not a member of this group, I was not aware that Bruce Kamiat
> posted this message about myself, until a friend informed me. Clearly,
> I must respond. I do not intend to follow up with any further
> responses...unless he decides to provoke me again. Even in that case,
> I will try hard not to pay any attention to him.
>
> On Sep 3, 2007 6:29 pm, Bruce Kamiat <SN195...@prodigy.net> wrote:
>
> "Tom Clabough for a long time pursued a macropolitical agenda:
> using John Pazmino's Yahoo group, ostensibly an amateur astronomy
> forum, as a platform for verbally assaulting Democrats and others who
> disagree with his far-right-wing politics."
>
> First of all, I didn't begin posting political responses on that
> group
> until AFTER many
> left-wing and Republican-bashing messages were posted. Second, the
> extent of my "far-right-wing politics" is to state my objection to
> the
> FACT that the democratic party has moved waaaay to the radical left.
> In fact, two democrat party House chairmen, John Conyers and Charlie
> Rangel, OPENLY work with Revolutionary-Communist organizations! One
> of
> the organizations, The Revolutionary Communist Party, actually calls
> for the violent overthrow of the American government.
>
> >From the website of the Revolutionary Communist Party, parent org
> behind World Can't Wait--Drive Out the Bush Regime, the same
> organization that democrat Chair of the House Judiciary Committee,
> John Conyers of Michigan, endorsed, then gave a SPEECH to!
>
> The RCP "Mission Statement": "Create Public Opinion, Seize Power! We
> are preparing minds and organizing forces for the time when there is
> a
> major crack in the system, whenever it comes and wherever it comes
> from: an opening that makes it possible to bring the future
> Revolutionary Army of the Proletariat (R.A.P.) into the field and
> wage
> a revolutionary armed struggle that actually has a chance of winning.
> And we have said that building our party itself is the most important
> part of organizing forces for revolution. This is true now, and it is
> true looking forward to the creation of that future R.A.P. and the
> waging of that armed struggle. ":
>
> (see link for details)
> http://revcom.us/a/v20/1000-1009/1000/barw.htm
>
> On Oct 5, 2006, Democrat Chairman of the House Judiciary Committee,
> John Conyers Jr, the same who is out leading an "investigation" into
> the Bush White House, *gave a speech* to the World Can't Wait--Drive
> Out the Bush Regime organization.
>
> (see link for details)
> http://www.worldcantwait.net/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&i...
>
> Or, if the long url above breaks up:
> http://tinyurl.com/ygx9w6
>
> Before that, he openly ENDORSED the movement!
> See "Endorsers of the Call to Drive Out the Bush Regime Include...".
> (John Conyers' endorsement appears immediately after Ward
> Churchill's)
>
> (see link for details)
> http://worldcantwait.net/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=25...
>
> Or, if the long url above breaks up:
> http://tinyurl.com/ef6z6
>
> FACT: World Can't Wait--Drive Out the Bush Regime is a MAOIST-
> revolutionary movement initiated and controlled by the Revolutionary
> Communist Party!
> (scroll down the list that appears to find the World Can't Wait
> organization --rwor.org is the website of the Revolutionary Communist
> Party) :
> (see link for details)
> http://rwor.org/a/rwlink/links.htm
>
> >From David Horowitz's FrontpageMag.com /DiscoverTheNetworks.org:
>
> Profile: World Can't Wait--Drive Out the Bush Regime (WCW)
>
> *Revolutionary communist movement that stages protests against the
> Bush administration
>
> *Organizes college and high-school students
>
> *Founded in June 2005 by Charles Clark Kissinger, a longtime leader
> of the Revolutionary Communist Party
>
> (see link for details)
> http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/groupProfile.asp?grpid=7213
>
> Here's the Revolutionary Communist Party (see link below) boasting of
> a FULL PAGE 'World Can't Wait--Drive Out the Bush Regime' ad of
> theirs which actually appeared in the New York Times.
> (either "rwor.org" or "revcom.us" takes you to the website of the
> Revolutionary Communist Party). The NY Times allowed a 2nd full-page
> RCP/WCW ad to be run several months later! In fact, they are, or have
> very recently, ran another large ad.
> (see link for details)
> http://www.rwor.org/a/028/who-hated-bush-ad.htm
>
> Here's a photo of the current chairman of the House Ways and Means
> Committee, DEMOCRAT Charlie Rangel, at the podium of a Workers World
> Party /
> Troops Out Now demonstration here in New York City. Also, in this set
> of photos are terrorist and communist attorneys Lynn Steward and
> Ramsey Clark. They were at the same WWP event in which Rangel spoke.
> Ramsey Clark is the founder and chair of the International Action
> Center, as well as the former Attorney General under democrat prez
> LBJ. The IAC works very closely with WWP. In fact, they even share
> the
> same office space in NYC.
> http://www.workers.org/march19/index2.html
>
> Here's a letter former, now deceased, chairman of the Workers World
> party, Sam Marcy, sent to "Comrade Kim Jong-Il". It's from the
> Workers World Party's own website (workers.org) :
>
> "On July 9 (1994), Workers World Party Chairperson Sam Marcy sent the
> following statement to Comrade Kim Jong Il, the Central Committee of
> the Workers Party of Korea and the State Funeral Committee of
> President Kim Il Sung." :
>
> "Dear Comrade Kim Jong Il... Comrade Kim Il Sung devoted his whole
> life to the Korean people's struggle for national self-determination
> and the international working-class struggle for socialist
> emancipation. With his leadership, the Korean people defeated the
> Japanese colonial occupation and soon after brought about the first
> defeat of the U.S. imperialist military machine....
>
> Workers World Party values our close, comradely relations with the
> Workers Party of Korea very highly. We are proud to have known Kim Il
> Sung as a great leader and a comrade in the international communist
> movement. And it is with the most profound sense of loss that we mark
> his passing. Yet it is also with the greatest revolutionary optimism
> that we are confident that Comrade Kim Il Sung's legacy will live on
> with your efforts to win new victories for the Korean people.... With
> comradely solidarity, Sam Marcy Chairperson, Workers World Party":
> (see link for details)
> http://www.workers.org/marcy/cd/sam94/1994html/s940721.htm
>
> >From wikipedia.com:
>
> The WWP has organized, directed or participated in many coalition
> organizations for various causes, typically anti-imperialist in
> nature. The International Action Center, which counts many WWP
> members
> as leading activists, founded the Act Now To Stop War and End Racism
> (ANSWER) coalition shortly after 9/11, and has run both the All
> People's Congress (APC) and the International Action Center (IAC) for
> many years. The APC and the IAC in particular share a large degree of
> overlap in their memberships with cadre in the WWP. In 2004 , a youth
> group close to the WWP called Fight Imperialism Stand Together (FIST)
> was founded.
> (see link for details)
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Workers_World_Party
>
> And here's old (democrat) Charlie Rangel again with terrorist
> attorney
> Lynn
> Steward and International Action Center (IAC) leader Ramsey Clark, at
> the Workers World Party/Troops Out Now rally:
> (see link for details)
> http://www.workers.org/march19/index2.html
>
> As for Bruce Kamiat's "moderate" political positions, he once
> admitted
> to me he attended an annual socialists scholars event at BMCC, a 2-
> year community college I attended during the eighties. The event
> included an indoctrination/propaganda campaign aimed at recruiting
> young naive college kids into the socialist and/or revolutionary
> communist movement. Kamiat also once stated that he went over to
> communist Nicaragua during the eighties to 'see for himself' what was
> happening there. Nothing wrong or illegal with any of this of course,
> but it does take away a bit from his claim that he is a standard
> liberal democrat. He also defended a so-called "anti-war" rally in
> NYC
> several years ago which was actually led by communist activist Leslie
> Cagan, who is/was? the founder and co-chair of the org Committees of
> Correspondence for Democracy and Socialism/CCDS. The CCDS is an
> offshoot of Communist Party USA. Obviously, any group or individual
> who supports "Revolution", such as the Cuban revolution, cannot
> possibly be truly "anti-war". In fact ALL of the popular "anti-war"
> coalitions around today were initiated by communist organizations. We
> have:
>
> United For Peace and Justice, chaired by the above mentioned, Castro
> supporter Leslie Cagan.
>
> Troops Out Now and A.N.S.W.E.R., both initiated and controlled by
> Workers World Party leadership or 'former' leadership.
>
> World Can't Wait--Drive Out the Bush Regime, initiated and controlled
> by the Revolutionary Communist Party (RCP).
>
> Bruce Kamiat <SN195...@prodigy.net> wrote:
>
> "Clabough accuses me of actual felonious acts (brandishing an
> unlicensed firearm with menacing intent) and potential for deadly
> violence. This is therefore far the
> more serious of the two. There are three basic components to this
> libel: that I threatened him with a gun; that I said "you never know
> who we might shoot"; and that I said "don't approach me in the park
> again," with various ominous implications he tries to attribute to
> this entreaty."
>
> I never mentioned anything about your gun being "illegal"
> Anyway, here is exactly what Bruce Kamiat said in his message:
>
> "By the way, don't approach me in the park again, Tom.
> Just don't...".
>
> And when I reminded the group of an earlier threat he made ("You
> never
> know who we might shoot!"), in which he included the following direct
> link to a photo of
> himself holding a gun while lurking in some decrepit old
> hallway somewhere, he reissued the threat by saying,
>
> "I'm glad you remember that, Tom. Keep it in mind."
>
> Sound like "sarcasm" to you?
>
> The photo, which had been in the group's file section, has since been
> removed. And since John Pazmino rarely, if ever, removes content from
> his group, I suspect that Bruce Kamiat himself removed the photo.
>
> On Sep 3, 6:29 pm, Bruce <SN195...@prodigy.net> wrote:
>
> - Hide quoted text -
> - Show quoted text -
>
> > BRUCE KAMIAT RESPONDS TO LIBELOUS ACCUSATIONS POSTED ON THIS LIST AND
> > ELSEWHERE ON THE NET BY JOHN PAZMINO AND TOM CLABOUGH
>
> > I only recently became aware of these libelous posts to this and other
> > lists on the Internet. These posted libels are accessible by Google
> > search, so they are viewable by family, friends, and current and
> > potential employers; therefore, I feel compelled to respond, although
> > some time has passed since they were posted. I apologize for the fact
> > that this response, while necessary, is no longer a timely one. I also
> > apologize for its length. I will not burden the readership and myself
> > by including copies here of the ugly posts to which I am now
> > responding. If you, the reader, wish to see these, you may find them
> > as I did-with a Google search on my full name. You will see the dozens
> > of places on the Net on which these libels have been posted-a
> > particularly dirty way to fight, don't you think?
>
> > Fellow amateur astronomer, as you read this, imagine being yourself
> > the target of this sort of treatment. You work hard to survive and to
> > take care of those you love. You adopt a hobby of surpassing beauty
> > that helps you to transcend the ugliness around you. Then you run into
> > characters such as Pazmino and Clabough who try not only to poison
> > your joy in the hobby by polluting it with such hostile and abusive
> > behavior, but also to threaten your very livelihood, your very
> > survival, to satisfy their own petty agendas. They even try to hurt
> > other people in your life, outside of astronomy, who are vitally
> > important to you! Thus you are forced to spend what little, precious
> > spare time you have writing responses like this one to their slanders.
> > What a way for them to treat a colleague who has never done either of
> > them any harm!
>
> > These libelous posts originally appeared on John Pazmino's own Yahoo
> > group, on which I responded at the time. I did not then realize he had
> > widely disseminated them elsewhere on the Internet. John Pazmino has
> > now disallowed any response on his own group from the victims of his
> > harassment and of whatever libelous statements about me or others he
> > may post there in the future.
>
> > BACKGROUND AND CONTEXT
>
> > John Pazmino and Tom Clabough have been conducting a vendetta for some
> > years against the Amateur Astronomers Association of New York (AAA)
> > and its board of directors. Pazmino and Clabough came into conflict
> > with that organization over personal, ego-related issues and have
> > adopted harassment and slander as their preferred modes of conducting
> > their feud. As a board member, I have been a target of theirs. John
> > Pazmino has particularly targeted me since the day I insisted he stop
> > handing out flyers attacking the organization and its members at an
> > AAA workshop I chaired at the time. That was apparently enough to put
> > me on the other side of the line as far as he was concerned. Still,
> > John had far less reason for his animosity toward me than toward other
> > members of the board.
>
> > John had been asked to resign from the AAA's board of directors for
> > conduct unbecoming a board member. That conduct included the wide
> > distribution, within and outside the club, of a letter that used
> > extremely obscene language to attack other board members, particularly
> > the women on the board. I could not support his retention on the board
> > after that; yet of the 18 board members, I was the only one who, then
> > and thereafter, opposed his expulsion from the club altogether. I
> > remembered that, in his saner days, he had done a great deal of work
> > for the AAA and been a real asset in many ways. I hoped to avoid a
> > split in the club and hoped he would calm down and return to reason.
> > My arguments on those lines prevailed for a time, but his conduct
> > gradually worsened to the point of forcing the organization to finally
> > expel him regardless. Even then, while I could no longer argue against
> > his expulsion, I abstained rather than vote for it; and I chastised
> > certain members of the board whose behavior I believed had pushed John
> > farther over the edge. I felt very sad that things had gone that way,
> > but it was mostly John's own fault.
>
> > He frequently peppers his "Pazminibits," "NYC Events," and other
> > supposed astronomy-news articles with digs at the AAA and its members.
> > These are usually at least partly, and sometimes entirely, false and
> > are just part of his ongoing feud. The worst of these he has entitled
> > "AAA News," a subtle deceptive tactic designed so that the unwary
> > might mistake these bulletins as coming from the AAA itself. In one
> > typical example, his "Pazminibits" "news" column recently introduced a
> > myth that AAA president Rich Rosenberg and I had formed a new club.
> > The column vaguely referred to a "controversy" in which unspecified
> > members of this new club objected to our leadership. In reality, there
> > was no new club and no controversy; that was fiction. All that had
> > actually happened was that John Pazmino's sidekick, Tom Clabough, had
> > joined a long-established astronomy Yahoo group of which Rich and I
> > were moderators. The group owner (neither Rich nor I) at first gave
> > Clabough the benefit of the doubt and allowed him to stay, but
> > eventually kicked Tom off for reverting to habit and attempting to
> > post offensive, inappropriate material (see two paragraphs below).
>
> > In addition to supporting John Pazmino's micropolitical feud with the
> > AAA, Tom Clabough for a long time pursued a macropolitical agenda:
> > using John Pazmino's Yahoo group, ostensibly an amateur astronomy
> > forum, as a platform for verbally assaulting Democrats and others who
> > disagree with his far-right-wing politics. For years, until new
> > moderators recently stopped him, he filled John Pazmino's Yahoo group
> > with political posts, incessantly baiting his opponents to draw us out
> > and then launching personal attacks. This was a mostly successful
> > tactic to drive us out of the group. All who disagreed with Tom
> > Clabough's politics had to choose between leaving the group, remaining
> > silent under his barrage of insults, or speaking up and being
> > subjected to personal attacks such as you see he has leveled at me.
> > Thus silencing or driving off his opposition, he flooded the list with
> > his political propaganda almost unopposed. I drew his particular ire
> > for refusing to quit or to be silent. I leave it to you, the reader,
> > to imagine what kind of person tries to take over an amateur astronomy
> > group for the purpose of spreading macropolitical propaganda,
> > aggressively insulting his fellow amateur astronomers and using
> > Internet libel to threaten the livelihoods of those who stand up to
> > him. This was the context in which the libels that I'm addressing here
> > occurred.
>
> > Tom Clabough is obsessive in his attacks, and he hounded me
> > relentlessly for about five years until the advent of the new group
> > moderators mentioned above, directing at me every sort of insult and
> > provocation-even pursuing me to another astronomy Yahoo group (see two
> > paragraphs above) where I and others had gone specifically to escape
> > from him and to share our astronomy interests unmolested. In the most
> > recent case (as of this writing), he attempted to post a message on
> > that group directly mocking my personal belief in God in a rather vile
> > fashion. I am thankful to the owner of that group who refused to
> > permit it, despite Tom's attempts to intimidate him by verbally
> > bashing him on Pazmino's group (again, see above). If I were the sort
> > of violent person Clabough disingenuously pretends to believe me to
> > be, I would have creamed him long ago. He obviously knows that I am
> > not such a person, as he has expended great effort in trying to drive
> > me into a rage. This would be very self-destructive behavior if he
> > really believed me to have the violent tendencies that he says he
> > believes me to have. Despite his provocations, I never once laid a
> > hand on him or raised my voice to him in person-just asked him to stay
> > away from me. I admit that I have succumbed to rage at him on occasion
> > to the extent of speaking to him quite harshly on John Pazmino's Yahoo
> > group.
>
> > BRUCE KAMIAT RESPONDS TO TOM CLABOUGH'S LIBEL
>
> > I will respond to this libel first, as Clabough accuses me of actual
> > felonious acts (brandishing an unlicensed firearm with menacing
> > intent) and potential for deadly violence. This is therefore far the
> > more serious of the two. There are three basic components to this
> > libel: that I threatened him with a gun; that I said "you never know
> > who we might shoot"; and that I said "don't approach me in the park
> > again," with various ominous implications he tries to attribute to
> > this entreaty. I will address these in reverse order, the most
> > significant last.
>
> > Tom Clabough's style is to make much use of out-of-context partial
> > quotations to create extremely distorted impressions of those whom he
> > libels. Additionally, he often rearranges fragments of quotations to
> > create a different meaning or even puts quotation marks around
> > complete fabrications to make it appear that others have said things
> > they never did.
>
> > The third component cited above, in which I told him not to approach
> > me in the park, refers to my response to his frequent attempts to walk
> > up to me in the park or at the museum and act as though we were great,
> > warm friends, as though he had not just finished posting another set
> > of insults and lies about me and others on the Yahoo group. I was
> > getting awfully tired of this. I felt extreme anger at him and just
> > wanted him to stay away from me.
>
> > He had strenuously objected on the Yahoo group to the fact that I was
> > a lifelong member of the Democratic Party and proud to be so. He had
> > attempted to equate liberal Democrats with anarchists, Communists,
> > terrorists, and supporters of Al-Qaeda. For my offense of being a
> > liberal Democrat, he had publicly accused me of being a traitor to our
> > nation. It requires an odd sort of mental disconnect to hurl such
> > accusations repeatedly and incessantly at someone-not in the abstract,
> > but at a direct, personal level-and then expect him to warmly welcome
> > you with a smile. Perhaps those of you among the readers of this
> > message ...
>
> > read more »
--------------F1A6CB18E3C482E1EBB27F4B
Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
<!doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0 transitional//en" >
<html >
Tell it to your lawyer.
<br >
<br >
<p >Tom 07 wrote:
<blockquote TYPE=CITE >As I was not a member of this group, I was not aware
that Bruce Kamiat
<br >posted this message about myself, until a friend informed me. Clearly,
<br >I must respond. I do not intend to follow up with any further
<br >responses...unless he decides to provoke me again. Even in that case,
<br >I will try hard not to pay any attention to him.
<p >On Sep 3, 2007 6:29 pm, Bruce Kamiat <SN195...@prodigy.net> wrote:
<p >"Tom Clabough for a long time pursued a macropolitical agenda:
<br >using John Pazmino's Yahoo group, ostensibly an amateur astronomy
<br >forum, as a platform for verbally assaulting Democrats and others who
<br >disagree with his far-right-wing politics."
<p >First of all, I didn't begin posting political responses on that
<br >group
<br >until AFTER many
<br >left-wing and Republican-bashing messages were posted. Second, the
<br >extent of my "far-right-wing politics" is to state my objection to
<br >the
<br >FACT that the democratic party has moved waaaay to the radical left.
<br >In fact, two democrat party House chairmen, John Conyers and Charlie
<br >Rangel, OPENLY work with Revolutionary-Communist organizations! One
<br >of
<br >the organizations, The Revolutionary Communist Party, actually calls
<br >for the violent overthrow of the American government.
<p >>From the website of the Revolutionary Communist Party, parent org
<br >behind World Can't Wait--Drive Out the Bush Regime, the same
<br >organization that democrat Chair of the House Judiciary Committee,
<br >John Conyers of Michigan, endorsed, then gave a SPEECH to!
<p >The RCP "Mission Statement": "Create Public Opinion, Seize Power! We
<br >are preparing minds and organizing forces for the time when there is
<br >a
<br >major crack in the system, whenever it comes and wherever it comes
<br >from: an opening that makes it possible to bring the future
<br >Revolutionary Army of the Proletariat (R.A.P.) into the field and
<br >wage
<br >a revolutionary armed struggle that actually has a chance of winning.
<br >And we have said that building our party itself is the most important
<br >part of organizing forces for revolution. This is true now, and it
is
<br >true looking forward to the creation of that future R.A.P. and the
<br >waging of that armed struggle. ":
<p >(see link for details)
<br ><a href="http://revcom.us/a/v20/1000-1009/1000/barw.htm">http://revcom.us/a/v20/1000-1009/1000/barw.htm</a>
<p >On Oct 5, 2006, Democrat Chairman of the House Judiciary Committee,
<br >John Conyers Jr, the same who is out leading an "investigation" into
<br >the Bush White House, *gave a speech* to the World Can't Wait--Drive
<br >Out the Bush Regime organization.
<p >(see link for details)
<br ><a href="http://www.worldcantwait.net/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&i">http://www.worldcantwait.net/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&i</a>...
<p >Or, if the long url above breaks up:
<br ><a href="http://tinyurl.com/ygx9w6">http://tinyurl.com/ygx9w6</a>
<p >Before that, he openly ENDORSED the movement!
<br >See "Endorsers of the Call to Drive Out the Bush Regime Include...".
<br >(John Conyers' endorsement appears immediately after Ward
<br >Churchill's)
<p >(see link for details)
<br ><a href="http://worldcantwait.net/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=25">http://worldcantwait.net/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=25</a>...
<p >Or, if the long url above breaks up:
<br ><a href="http://tinyurl.com/ef6z6">http://tinyurl.com/ef6z6</a>
<p >FACT: World Can't Wait--Drive Out the Bush Regime is a MAOIST-
<br >revolutionary movement initiated and controlled by the Revolutionary
<br >Communist Party!
<br >(scroll down the list that appears to find the World Can't Wait
<br >organization --rwor.org is the website of the Revolutionary Communist
<br >Party) :
<br >(see link for details)
<br ><a href="http://rwor.org/a/rwlink/links.htm">http://rwor.org/a/rwlink/links.htm</a>
<p >>From David Horowitz's FrontpageMag.com /DiscoverTheNetworks.org:
<p >Profile: World Can't Wait--Drive Out the Bush Regime (WCW)
<p >*Revolutionary communist movement that stages protests against the
<br >Bush administration
<p >*Organizes college and high-school students
<p >*Founded in June 2005 by Charles Clark Kissinger, a longtime leader
<br >of the Revolutionary Communist Party
<p >(see link for details)
<br ><a href="http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/groupProfile.asp?grpid=7213">http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/groupProfile.asp?grpid=7213</a>
<p >Here's the Revolutionary Communist Party (see link below) boasting of
<br >a FULL PAGE 'World Can't Wait--Drive Out the Bush Regime' ad of
<br >theirs which actually appeared in the New York Times.
<br >(either "rwor.org" or "revcom.us" takes you to the website of the
<br >Revolutionary Communist Party). The NY Times allowed a 2nd full-page
<br >RCP/WCW ad to be run several months later! In fact, they are, or have
<br >very recently, ran another large ad.
<br >(see link for details)
<br ><a href="http://www.rwor.org/a/028/who-hated-bush-ad.htm">http://www.rwor.org/a/028/who-hated-bush-ad.htm</a>
<p >Here's a photo of the current chairman of the House Ways and Means
<br >Committee, DEMOCRAT Charlie Rangel, at the podium of a Workers World
<br >Party /
<br >Troops Out Now demonstration here in New York City. Also, in this set
<br >of photos are terrorist and communist attorneys Lynn Steward and
<br >Ramsey Clark. They were at the same WWP event in which Rangel spoke.
<br >Ramsey Clark is the founder and chair of the International Action
<br >Center, as well as the former Attorney General under democrat prez
<br >LBJ. The IAC works very closely with WWP. In fact, they even share
<br >the
<br >same office space in NYC.
<br ><a href="http://www.workers.org/march19/index2.html">http://www.workers.org/march19/index2.html</a>
<p >Here's a letter former, now deceased, chairman of the Workers World
<br >party, Sam Marcy, sent to "Comrade Kim Jong-Il". It's from the
<br >Workers World Party's own website (workers.org) :
<p >"On July 9 (1994), Workers World Party Chairperson Sam Marcy sent the
<br >following statement to Comrade Kim Jong Il, the Central Committee of
<br >the Workers Party of Korea and the State Funeral Committee of
<br >President Kim Il Sung." :
<p >"Dear Comrade Kim Jong Il... Comrade Kim Il Sung devoted his whole
<br >life to the Korean people's struggle for national self-determination
<br >and the international working-class struggle for socialist
<br >emancipation. With his leadership, the Korean people defeated the
<br >Japanese colonial occupation and soon after brought about the first
<br >defeat of the U.S. imperialist military machine....
<p >Workers World Party values our close, comradely relations with the
<br >Workers Party of Korea very highly. We are proud to have known Kim
Il
<br >Sung as a great leader and a comrade in the international communist
<br >movement. And it is with the most profound sense of loss that we mark
<br >his passing. Yet it is also with the greatest revolutionary optimism
<br >that we are confident that Comrade Kim Il Sung's legacy will live on
<br >with your efforts to win new victories for the Korean people.... With
<br >comradely solidarity, Sam Marcy Chairperson, Workers World Party":
<br >(see link for details)
<br ><a href="http://www.workers.org/marcy/cd/sam94/1994html/s940721.htm">http://www.workers.org/marcy/cd/sam94/1994html/s940721.htm</a>
<p >>From wikipedia.com:
<p >The WWP has organized, directed or participated in many coalition
<br >organizations for various causes, typically anti-imperialist in
<br >nature. The International Action Center, which counts many WWP
<br >members
<br >as leading activists, founded the Act Now To Stop War and End Racism
<br >(ANSWER) coalition shortly after 9/11, and has run both the All
<br >People's Congress (APC) and the International Action Center (IAC) for
<br >many years. The APC and the IAC in particular share a large degree
of
<br >overlap in their memberships with cadre in the WWP. In 2004 , a youth
<br >group close to the WWP called Fight Imperialism Stand Together (FIST)
<br >was founded.
<br >(see link for details)
<br ><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Workers_World_Party">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Workers_World_Party</a>
<p >And here's old (democrat) Charlie Rangel again with terrorist
<br >attorney
<br >Lynn
<br >Steward and International Action Center (IAC) leader Ramsey Clark,
at
<br >the Workers World Party/Troops Out Now rally:
<br >(see link for details)
<br ><a href="http://www.workers.org/march19/index2.html">http://www.workers.org/march19/index2.html</a>
<p >As for Bruce Kamiat's "moderate" political positions, he once
<br >admitted
<br >to me he attended an annual socialists scholars event at BMCC, a 2-
<br >year community college I attended during the eighties. The event
<br >included an indoctrination/propaganda campaign aimed at recruiting
<br >young naive college kids into the socialist and/or revolutionary
<br >communist movement. Kamiat also once stated that he went over to
<br >communist Nicaragua during the eighties to 'see for himself' what was
<br >happening there. Nothing wrong or illegal with any of this of course,
<br >but it does take away a bit from his claim that he is a standard
<br >liberal democrat. He also defended a so-called "anti-war" rally in
<br >NYC
<br >several years ago which was actually led by communist activist Leslie
<br >Cagan, who is/was? the founder and co-chair of the org Committees of
<br >Correspondence for Democracy and Socialism/CCDS. The CCDS is an
<br >offshoot of Communist Party USA. Obviously, any group or individual
<br >who supports "Revolution", such as the Cuban revolution, cannot
<br >possibly be truly "anti-war". In fact ALL of the popular "anti-war"
<br >coalitions around today were initiated by communist organizations.
We
<br >have:
<p >United For Peace and Justice, chaired by the above mentioned, Castro
<br >supporter Leslie Cagan.
<p >Troops Out Now and A.N.S.W.E.R., both initiated and controlled by
<br >Workers World Party leadership or 'former' leadership.
<p >World Can't Wait--Drive Out the Bush Regime, initiated and controlled
<br >by the Revolutionary Communist Party (RCP).
<p >Bruce Kamiat <SN195...@prodigy.net> wrote:
<p >"Clabough accuses me of actual felonious acts (brandishing an
<br >unlicensed firearm with menacing intent) and potential for deadly
<br >violence. This is therefore far the
<br >more serious of the two. There are three basic components to this
<br >libel: that I threatened him with a gun; that I said "you never know
<br >who we might shoot"; and that I said "don't approach me in the park
<br >again," with various ominous implications he tries to attribute to
<br >this entreaty."
<p >I never mentioned anything about your gun being "illegal"
<br >Anyway, here is exactly what Bruce Kamiat said in his message:
<p >"By the way, don't approach me in the park again, Tom.
<br >Just don't...".
<p >And when I reminded the group of an earlier threat he made ("You
<br >never
<br >know who we might shoot!"), in which he included the following direct
<br >link to a photo of
<br >himself holding a gun while lurking in some decrepit old
<br >hallway somewhere, he reissued the threat by saying,
<p >"I'm glad you remember that, Tom. Keep it in mind."
<p >Sound like "sarcasm" to you?
<p >The photo, which had been in the group's file section, has since been
<br >removed. And since John Pazmino rarely, if ever, removes content from
<br >his group, I suspect that Bruce Kamiat himself removed the photo.
<p >On Sep 3, 6:29 pm, Bruce <SN195...@prodigy.net> wrote:
<p >- Hide quoted text -
<br >- Show quoted text -
<p >> BRUCE KAMIAT RESPONDS TO LIBELOUS ACCUSATIONS POSTED ON THIS LIST
AND
<br >> ELSEWHERE ON THE NET BY JOHN PAZMINO AND TOM CLABOUGH
<p >> I only recently became aware of these libelous posts to this and other
<br >> lists on the Internet. These posted libels are accessible by Google
<br >> search, so they are viewable by family, friends, and current and
<br >> potential employers; therefore, I feel compelled to respond, although
<br >> some time has passed since they were posted. I apologize for the
fact
<br >> that this response, while necessary, is no longer a timely one. I
also
<br >> apologize for its length. I will not burden the readership and myself
<br >> by including copies here of the ugly posts to which I am now
<br >> responding. If you, the reader, wish to see these, you may find them
<br >> as I did-with a Google search on my full name. You will see the dozens
<br >> of places on the Net on which these libels have been posted-a
<br >> particularly dirty way to fight, don't you think?
<p >> Fellow amateur astronomer, as you read this, imagine being yourself
<br >> the target of this sort of treatment. You work hard to survive and
to
<br >> take care of those you love. You adopt a hobby of surpassing beauty
<br >> that helps you to transcend the ugliness around you. Then you run
into
<br >> characters such as Pazmino and Clabough who try not only to poison
<br >> your joy in the hobby by polluting it with such hostile and abusive
<br >> behavior, but also to threaten your very livelihood, your very
<br >> survival, to satisfy their own petty agendas. They even try to hurt
<br >> other people in your life, outside of astronomy, who are vitally
<br >> important to you! Thus you are forced to spend what little, precious
<br >> spare time you have writing responses like this one to their slanders.
<br >> What a way for them to treat a colleague who has never done either
of
<br >> them any harm!
<p >> These libelous posts originally appeared on John Pazmino's own Yahoo
<br >> group, on which I responded at the time. I did not then realize he
had
<br >> widely disseminated them elsewhere on the Internet. John Pazmino
has
<br >> now disallowed any response on his own group from the victims of
his
<br >> harassment and of whatever libelous statements about me or others
he
<br >> may post there in the future.
<p >> BACKGROUND AND CONTEXT
<p >> John Pazmino and Tom Clabough have been conducting a vendetta for
some
<br >> years against the Amateur Astronomers Association of New York (AAA)
<br >> and its board of directors. Pazmino and Clabough came into conflict
<br >> with that organization over personal, ego-related issues and have
<br >> adopted harassment and slander as their preferred modes of conducting
<br >> their feud. As a board member, I have been a target of theirs. John
<br >> Pazmino has particularly targeted me since the day I insisted he
stop
<br >> handing out flyers attacking the organization and its members at
an
<br >> AAA workshop I chaired at the time. That was apparently enough to
put
<br >> me on the other side of the line as far as he was concerned. Still,
<br >> John had far less reason for his animosity toward me than toward
other
<br >> members of the board.
<p >> John had been asked to resign from the AAA's board of directors for
<br >> conduct unbecoming a board member. That conduct included the wide
<br >> distribution, within and outside the club, of a letter that used
<br >> extremely obscene language to attack other board members, particularly
<br >> the women on the board. I could not support his retention on the
board
<br >> after that; yet of the 18 board members, I was the only one who,
then
<br >> and thereafter, opposed his expulsion from the club altogether. I
<br >> remembered that, in his saner days, he had done a great deal of work
<br >> for the AAA and been a real asset in many ways. I hoped to avoid
a
<br >> split in the club and hoped he would calm down and return to reason.
<br >> My arguments on those lines prevailed for a time, but his conduct
<br >> gradually worsened to the point of forcing the organization to finally
<br >> expel him regardless. Even then, while I could no longer argue against
<br >> his expulsion, I abstained rather than vote for it; and I chastised
<br >> certain members of the board whose behavior I believed had pushed
John
<br >> farther over the edge. I felt very sad that things had gone that
way,
<br >> but it was mostly John's own fault.
<p >> He frequently peppers his "Pazminibits," "NYC Events," and other
<br >> supposed astronomy-news articles with digs at the AAA and its members.
<br >> These are usually at least partly, and sometimes entirely, false
and
<br >> are just part of his ongoing feud. The worst of these he has entitled
<br >> "AAA News," a subtle deceptive tactic designed so that the unwary
<br >> might mistake these bulletins as coming from the AAA itself. In one
<br >> typical example, his "Pazminibits" "news" column recently introduced
a
<br >> myth that AAA president Rich Rosenberg and I had formed a new club.
<br >> The column vaguely referred to a "controversy" in which unspecified
<br >> members of this new club objected to our leadership. In reality,
there
<br >> was no new club and no controversy; that was fiction. All that had
<br >> actually happened was that John Pazmino's sidekick, Tom Clabough,
had
<br >> joined a long-established astronomy Yahoo group of which Rich and
I
<br >> were moderators. The group owner (neither Rich nor I) at first gave
<br >> Clabough the benefit of the doubt and allowed him to stay, but
<br >> eventually kicked Tom off for reverting to habit and attempting to
<br >> post offensive, inappropriate material (see two paragraphs below).
<p >> In addition to supporting John Pazmino's micropolitical feud with
the
<br >> AAA, Tom Clabough for a long time pursued a macropolitical agenda:
<br >> using John Pazmino's Yahoo group, ostensibly an amateur astronomy
<br >> forum, as a platform for verbally assaulting Democrats and others
who
<br >> disagree with his far-right-wing politics. For years, until new
<br >> moderators recently stopped him, he filled John Pazmino's Yahoo group
<br >> with political posts, incessantly baiting his opponents to draw us
out
<br >> and then launching personal attacks. This was a mostly successful
<br >> tactic to drive us out of the group. All who disagreed with Tom
<br >> Clabough's politics had to choose between leaving the group, remaining
<br >> silent under his barrage of insults, or speaking up and being
<br >> subjected to personal attacks such as you see he has leveled at me.
<br >> Thus silencing or driving off his opposition, he flooded the list
with
<br >> his political propaganda almost unopposed. I drew his particular
ire
<br >> for refusing to quit or to be silent. I leave it to you, the reader,
<br >> to imagine what kind of person tries to take over an amateur astronomy
<br >> group for the purpose of spreading macropolitical propaganda,
<br >> aggressively insulting his fellow amateur astronomers and using
<br >> Internet libel to threaten the livelihoods of those who stand up
to
<br >> him. This was the context in which the libels that I'm addressing
here
<br >> occurred.
<p >> Tom Clabough is obsessive in his attacks, and he hounded me
<br >> relentlessly for about five years until the advent of the new group
<br >> moderators mentioned above, directing at me every sort of insult
and
<br >> provocation-even pursuing me to another astronomy Yahoo group (see
two
<br >> paragraphs above) where I and others had gone specifically to escape
<br >> from him and to share our astronomy interests unmolested. In the
most
<br >> recent case (as of this writing), he attempted to post a message
on
<br >> that group directly mocking my personal belief in God in a rather
vile
<br >> fashion. I am thankful to the owner of that group who refused to
<br >> permit it, despite Tom's attempts to intimidate him by verbally
<br >> bashing him on Pazmino's group (again, see above). If I were the
sort
<br >> of violent person Clabough disingenuously pretends to believe me
to
<br >> be, I would have creamed him long ago. He obviously knows that I
am
<br >> not such a person, as he has expended great effort in trying to drive
<br >> me into a rage. This would be very self-destructive behavior if he
<br >> really believed me to have the violent tendencies that he says he
<br >> believes me to have. Despite his provocations, I never once laid
a
<br >> hand on him or raised my voice to him in person-just asked him to
stay
<br >> away from me. I admit that I have succumbed to rage at him on occasion
<br >> to the extent of speaking to him quite harshly on John Pazmino's
Yahoo
<br >> group.
<p >> BRUCE KAMIAT RESPONDS TO TOM CLABOUGH'S LIBEL
<p >> I will respond to this libel first, as Clabough accuses me of actual
<br >> felonious acts (brandishing an unlicensed firearm with menacing
<br >> intent) and potential for deadly violence. This is therefore far
the
<br >> more serious of the two. There are three basic components to this
<br >> libel: that I threatened him with a gun; that I said "you never know
<br >> who we might shoot"; and that I said "don't approach me in the park
<br >> again," with various ominous implications he tries to attribute to
<br >> this entreaty. I will address these in reverse order, the most
<br >> significant last.
<p >> Tom Clabough's style is to make much use of out-of-context partial
<br >> quotations to create extremely distorted impressions of those whom
he
<br >> libels. Additionally, he often rearranges fragments of quotations
to
<br >> create a different meaning or even puts quotation marks around
<br >> complete fabrications to make it appear that others have said things
<br >> they never did.
<p >> The third component cited above, in which I told him not to approach
<br >> me in the park, refers to my response to his frequent attempts to
walk
<br >> up to me in the park or at the museum and act as though we were great,
<br >> warm friends, as though he had not just finished posting another
set
<br >> of insults and lies about me and others on the Yahoo group. I was
<br >> getting awfully tired of this. I felt extreme anger at him and just
<br >> wanted him to stay away from me.
<p >> He had strenuously objected on the Yahoo group to the fact that I
was
<br >> a lifelong member of the Democratic Party and proud to be so. He
had
<br >> attempted to equate liberal Democrats with anarchists, Communists,
<br >> terrorists, and supporters of Al-Qaeda. For my offense of being a
<br >> liberal Democrat, he had publicly accused me of being a traitor to
our
<br >> nation. It requires an odd sort of mental disconnect to hurl such
<br >> accusations repeatedly and incessantly at someone-not in the abstract,
<br >> but at a direct, personal level-and then expect him to warmly welcome
<br >> you with a smile. Perhaps those of you among the readers of this
<br >> message ...
<p >> read more »</blockquote>
</html >
--------------F1A6CB18E3C482E1EBB27F4B--
|
| |
Date: 11 Sep 2007 10:57:55
From:
Subject: Re: BRUCE KAMIAT RESPONDS TO LIBELOUS ACCUSATIONS POSTED ON THIS LIST
|
On Sep 11, 11:32 am, Rich <rander3...@gmail.com > wrote:
> I'd like to take all you clowns who for whatever reason can't confine
> yourself to the political groups and shoot your live into the Sun.
Normally Rich and I are on oppposite side, but this time I agree with
him!
Take your bullshit somewhere else
|
| |
Date: 11 Sep 2007 09:32:00
From: Rich
Subject: Re: BRUCE KAMIAT RESPONDS TO LIBELOUS ACCUSATIONS POSTED ON THIS LIST
|
I'd like to take all you clowns who for whatever reason can't confine
yourself to the political groups and shoot your live into the Sun.
|
|
