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Date: 29 May 2007 03:57:38
From: Sam Wormley
Subject: Medium-Sized Black Hole Lurks in a Star Cluster
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Medium-Sized Black Hole Lurks in a Star Cluster
http://www.universetoday.com/2007/05/28/medium-sized-black-hole-lurks-in-a-star-cluster/
Supermassive black holes lurk at the heart of galaxies, containing
the mass of millions of stars. Stellar mass black holes can contain
the mass of a few suns. But astronomers have been perplexed why they
haven't been able to turn up intermediate mass black holes,
containing merely hundreds or thousands of times the mass of our Sun.
Well, now they have. Astronomers using the NSF's Very Large Array
(VLA) radio telescope have turned up a globular cluster in the
Andromdeda Galaxy (M31) that seems to contain a black hole with the
mass of 20,000 times the mass of the Sun; one of these long-sought
intermediate black holes.
Researchers originally detected X-rays emitted from this globular
cluster, and then did follow up observations in the radio spectrum to
confirm that a high mass, compact object is inside the cluster.
Although the best explanation is a black hole, it could also be a
cluster of compact objects, like neutron stars and black holes. The
quantity of radio emissions coming from the object fits the curve
perfectly between stellar and supermassive black holes.
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Date: 01 Jun 2007 11:59:38
From: oriel36
Subject: Re: Medium-Sized Black Hole Lurks in a Star Cluster
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On May 29, 10:13 pm, RMOLLISE <rmoll...@hotmail.com > wrote:
> On May 29, 11:52 am, oriel36 <kelleher.ger...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> <foolishness snipped>
>
> Dangit...there ain't nothin' left to reply to!
>
> ;-)
>
> Unk Rod
I see the theorists are having some fun in my absence and good for
them.The fact that the equable 24 hour day and its subdivisions of
hours,minutes,seconds or any smaller divisions of an equable pace is
always safe in the stable principles left by my astronomical
timekeeping ancestors and the Equation of Time principles from which
it all emerged makes it easy to return to and remind genuine people
how these things came about.I just did not find any people here even
when presenting the original texts of Huygens and Copernicus in
support.
As for the two symmetrical external rings and the smaller ring that I
was working with in terms of geometry of natural effeciency in stars
back in 1990,I am proud of that private work which precedes the image
of the rings surrounding SN1987A. Maybe somebody else can explain the
difference to you between working with stellar geometry before it is
photographed and after ,my this case the images appeared in 1994.
The rings tell you that there is no black holes or any weird geometry
based on early 20th century foolishness but then again,I do not have
to live with that nonsense.
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Date: 29 May 2007 13:13:52
From: RMOLLISE
Subject: Re: Medium-Sized Black Hole Lurks in a Star Cluster
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On May 29, 11:52 am, oriel36 <kelleher.ger...@gmail.com > wrote:
<foolishness snipped >
Dangit...there ain't nothin' left to reply to!
;-)
Unk Rod
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Date: 29 May 2007 09:52:14
From: oriel36
Subject: Re: Medium-Sized Black Hole Lurks in a Star Cluster
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On May 29, 5:21 pm, RMOLLISE <rmoll...@hotmail.com > wrote:
> On May 29, 10:23 am, Sam Wormley <sworml...@mchsi.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > RMOLLISE wrote:
> > > On May 28, 10:57 pm, Sam Wormley <sworml...@mchsi.com> wrote:
> > >> Medium-Sized Black Hole Lurks in a Star Cluster
> > >> http://www.universetoday.com/2007/05/28/medium-sized-black-hole-lurks...
>
> > >> Well, now they have. Astronomers using the NSF's Very Large Array
> > >> (VLA) radio telescope have turned up a globular cluster in the
> > >> Andromdeda Galaxy (M31) that seems to contain a black hole with the
> > >> mass of 20,000 times the mass of the Sun; one of these long-sought
> > >> intermediate black holes.
>
> > > Hi Sam:
>
> > > Just out of curiousity...which M31 globular? G1? The cited article
> > > doesn't say...
>
> > > Unk Rod
>
> > Globular cluster G1 in the Andromeda Galaxy (M31)
> > http://www.nrao.edu/pr/2007/globularbh/
>
> > "Based on observations with optical telescopes, Karl Gebhardt of the
> > University of Texas at Austin and his colleagues, which include Ho,
> > suggested in 2002 that the globular cluster G1 in the Andromeda
> > Galaxy (M31) contains a compact concentration of mass that is
> > intermediate in mass between stellar and supermassive black holes.
> > Other researchers disputed that conclusion. According to Ho, "In
> > 2005, we obtained better data that clinched the case that the
> > cluster really does contain a dark object with 20,000 times the
> > mass of the Sun. What we can't be sure of, however, is whether the
> > dark mass is a single object --- that is, an intermediate-mass
> > black hole --- or a cluster of smaller dark objects such as neutron
> > stars or stellar-sized black holes."- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> Hi Sam:
>
> Thanks...every once in a while I like to run down the M31 globs
> visually (or via imaging if necessary). It's nice to be able to know a
> little about their "characters."
>
> Unk Rod- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
The astronomical cycles of the Earth are gorgeous for those who can
appreciate them on their own terms and likewise the natural
evolutionary processes,on an almost seperate course,have the same
exciting qualities.
The only thing worse than making huge correlations between
terrestrial and celestial structures is not making them at all and
although many have remarked on the simiiarities between hurricance
structure and galactic structure,the inability to consider an external
influence generating the spiral arms of galaxies is probably the most
glaring -
http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap030925.html
As in hurricanes, the greatest concentration of forces are
experienced near the central axis or 'eye wall' of galaxies,as a
matter of course meteorologists would recognise that in a formation of
a hurricane the dual effects of surrounding oceanic /atmospheric
conditions with the Earth's rotation supplying the shape dictate much
of what a hurricane is.Not to transfer this to galaxy formation and
the spiral geometry too closely,there is little need to consider why
galaxies hold their shape if a greater external motion is considered
influencing the structure just as meteorologists do not need to
consider the Earth's rotation as supplying the spiral shape of a
hurricane .
Instead of inventing dark matter or exotic massive structures at the
center of galaxies,it is easier to draw physical lessons from what is
experienced at a terrestrial level as a rough,rough,rough guide to
celestial structure and processes.People already do this as per the
APOD comparison but for some reason,people like the exotic nonsense as
they apply to galactic evolution,structure and motion.
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Date: 29 May 2007 09:21:23
From: RMOLLISE
Subject: Re: Medium-Sized Black Hole Lurks in a Star Cluster
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On May 29, 10:23 am, Sam Wormley <sworml...@mchsi.com > wrote:
> RMOLLISE wrote:
> > On May 28, 10:57 pm, Sam Wormley <sworml...@mchsi.com> wrote:
> >> Medium-Sized Black Hole Lurks in a Star Cluster
> >> http://www.universetoday.com/2007/05/28/medium-sized-black-hole-lurks...
>
> >> Well, now they have. Astronomers using the NSF's Very Large Array
> >> (VLA) radio telescope have turned up a globular cluster in the
> >> Andromdeda Galaxy (M31) that seems to contain a black hole with the
> >> mass of 20,000 times the mass of the Sun; one of these long-sought
> >> intermediate black holes.
>
> > Hi Sam:
>
> > Just out of curiousity...which M31 globular? G1? The cited article
> > doesn't say...
>
> > Unk Rod
>
> Globular cluster G1 in the Andromeda Galaxy (M31)
> http://www.nrao.edu/pr/2007/globularbh/
>
> "Based on observations with optical telescopes, Karl Gebhardt of the
> University of Texas at Austin and his colleagues, which include Ho,
> suggested in 2002 that the globular cluster G1 in the Andromeda
> Galaxy (M31) contains a compact concentration of mass that is
> intermediate in mass between stellar and supermassive black holes.
> Other researchers disputed that conclusion. According to Ho, "In
> 2005, we obtained better data that clinched the case that the
> cluster really does contain a dark object with 20,000 times the
> mass of the Sun. What we can't be sure of, however, is whether the
> dark mass is a single object --- that is, an intermediate-mass
> black hole --- or a cluster of smaller dark objects such as neutron
> stars or stellar-sized black holes."- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Hi Sam:
Thanks...every once in a while I like to run down the M31 globs
visually (or via imaging if necessary). It's nice to be able to know a
little about their "characters."
Unk Rod
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Date: 29 May 2007 09:17:47
From: oriel36
Subject: Re: Medium-Sized Black Hole Lurks in a Star Cluster
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On May 29, 4:23 pm, Sam Wormley <sworml...@mchsi.com > wrote:
> RMOLLISE wrote:
> > On May 28, 10:57 pm, Sam Wormley <sworml...@mchsi.com> wrote:
> >> Medium-Sized Black Hole Lurks in a Star Cluster
> >> http://www.universetoday.com/2007/05/28/medium-sized-black-hole-lurks...
>
> >> Well, now they have. Astronomers using the NSF's Very Large Array
> >> (VLA) radio telescope have turned up a globular cluster in the
> >> Andromdeda Galaxy (M31) that seems to contain a black hole with the
> >> mass of 20,000 times the mass of the Sun; one of these long-sought
> >> intermediate black holes.
>
> > Hi Sam:
>
> > Just out of curiousity...which M31 globular? G1? The cited article
> > doesn't say...
>
> > Unk Rod
>
> Globular cluster G1 in the Andromeda Galaxy (M31)
> http://www.nrao.edu/pr/2007/globularbh/
>
> "Based on observations with optical telescopes, Karl Gebhardt of the
> University of Texas at Austin and his colleagues, which include Ho,
> suggested in 2002 that the globular cluster G1 in the Andromeda
> Galaxy (M31) contains a compact concentration of mass that is
> intermediate in mass between stellar and supermassive black holes.
> Other researchers disputed that conclusion. According to Ho, "In
> 2005, we obtained better data that clinched the case that the
> cluster really does contain a dark object with 20,000 times the
> mass of the Sun. What we can't be sure of, however, is whether the
> dark mass is a single object --- that is, an intermediate-mass
> black hole --- or a cluster of smaller dark objects such as neutron
> stars or stellar-sized black holes."- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Are you still on about this old cobblers of 'black holes' ?.
In 1990 I was working on stellar evolution (something which
dynamicists really are good at) and natural efficiency that is
witnessed in a multitude way in terrestrial forms,in short,there is a
specific geometry that is present to animate and inanimate forms
should it be the growth and evolution of planets and animals or
processes such as stellar evolution -
http://www.mcs.surrey.ac.uk/Personal/R.Knott/Fibonacci/fibnat2.html
The only copyright I ever took out was in 1990 which presents the
geometry present in stellar evolution using symmetrical rings with a
smaller internal ring. Four years later in May 1994,these ring were
observed in SN1984A -
http://csep10.phys.utk.edu/guidry/violence/sn87a.html
Although now a private work that I would not care if anybody here ever
saw,the one conclusion I can and would eagerly present is that the
natural effeciency of stellar evolution and the geometry which
accompanies that process can only be treated like all physical
processes and does not require a 'special' geometry.That symmetrical
geometry is also present in evolution of Eta Carinae -
http://www.ad-loznica.org.yu/fotografije/eta-carinae.jpg
Nobody asks where the abundance of elements found on the Earth come
from but then again stellar evolution is presented as a single stage
process when stellar evolution as a two stage process answers more
questions and still leaves room for dynamicists to make the neccessary
modification without collapsing their worthwhile attempts so far.
In case you missed the point,the rings surrounding massive stars
indicate a stellar evolutionary process which does not end in an
exotic 'black hole' creation but in something far more productive.The
elements in your body and your surrounding may be a consequence of the
evolution of our own Sun but considering that men are inclined to mix
the good (stellar evolutionary processes) with the bad (warped
space,ect ) there is background to do anything productive.
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Date: 29 May 2007 07:09:51
From: RMOLLISE
Subject: Re: Medium-Sized Black Hole Lurks in a Star Cluster
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On May 28, 10:57 pm, Sam Wormley <sworml...@mchsi.com > wrote:
> Medium-Sized Black Hole Lurks in a Star Cluster
> http://www.universetoday.com/2007/05/28/medium-sized-black-hole-lurks...
>
> Well, now they have. Astronomers using the NSF's Very Large Array
> (VLA) radio telescope have turned up a globular cluster in the
> Andromdeda Galaxy (M31) that seems to contain a black hole with the
> mass of 20,000 times the mass of the Sun; one of these long-sought
> intermediate black holes.
Hi Sam:
Just out of curiousity...which M31 globular? G1? The cited article
doesn't say...
Unk Rod
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Date: 29 May 2007 15:23:13
From: Sam Wormley
Subject: Re: Medium-Sized Black Hole Lurks in a Star Cluster
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RMOLLISE wrote:
> On May 28, 10:57 pm, Sam Wormley <sworml...@mchsi.com> wrote:
>> Medium-Sized Black Hole Lurks in a Star Cluster
>> http://www.universetoday.com/2007/05/28/medium-sized-black-hole-lurks...
>>
>> Well, now they have. Astronomers using the NSF's Very Large Array
>> (VLA) radio telescope have turned up a globular cluster in the
>> Andromdeda Galaxy (M31) that seems to contain a black hole with the
>> mass of 20,000 times the mass of the Sun; one of these long-sought
>> intermediate black holes.
>
>
> Hi Sam:
>
> Just out of curiousity...which M31 globular? G1? The cited article
> doesn't say...
>
> Unk Rod
>
Globular cluster G1 in the Andromeda Galaxy (M31)
http://www.nrao.edu/pr/2007/globularbh/
"Based on observations with optical telescopes, Karl Gebhardt of the
University of Texas at Austin and his colleagues, which include Ho,
suggested in 2002 that the globular cluster G1 in the Andromeda
Galaxy (M31) contains a compact concentration of mass that is
intermediate in mass between stellar and supermassive black holes.
Other researchers disputed that conclusion. According to Ho, "In
2005, we obtained better data that clinched the case that the
cluster really does contain a dark object with 20,000 times the
mass of the Sun. What we can't be sure of, however, is whether the
dark mass is a single object --- that is, an intermediate-mass
black hole --- or a cluster of smaller dark objects such as neutron
stars or stellar-sized black holes."
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