| |
Main
Date: 18 Aug 2007 13:54:17
From: Sam Wormley
Subject: "Cosmic train wreck" stumps dark-matter physicists
|
"Cosmic train wreck" stumps dark-matter physicists
http://physicsworld.com/cws/article/news/30849
A study of a collision between two galaxy clusters has thrown a
spanner into the works of current dark matter theories. Astronomers
in Canada and the US have looked at how gravity has bent the path of
the light coming from the combined cluster Abell 520 and have
discovered what they call a "cosmic train wreck" - a core of dark
matter and hot gas separated from the galaxies. Until now, dark
matter - the mysterious substance thought to constitute 95% of all
mass in the universe - has only ever been seen following the
galaxies' trajectory (Astrophys. J. in publication).
Most physicists think dark matter exists because large structures in
the universe appear to be held together by the gravitational
attraction of much more mass than we can see through telescopes. One
way to test theories of dark matter is to study cluster mergers,
which are collisions between galaxy clusters after they have steadily
gravitated towards each other. Cluster mergers are also a testing
ground for alternative theories of gravitation, such as modified
Newtonian dynamics (MOND), that eschew the possibility of dark matter
altogether.
Observations of the Abell 520 cluster by Andisheh Mahdavi and
colleagues at the University of Victoria, together with Peter Capak
from the California Institute of Technology, however, seem to be
inexplicable using either dark-matter or alternative-gravity
theories.
The researchers used data taken from the Canada-France-Hawaii
telescope and the Subaru telescope in Hawaii, along with data from
the Chandra X-ray telescope, to see how gravity in the Abell 520
cluster acted as a lens to bend light passing through it on the
light's journey to Earth. Using this "gravitational lensing"
technique, they mapped the distribution of the three components of
the cluster: galaxies, prevalent hot gas and dark matter.
Mahdavi and colleagues discovered a core of dark matter and hot gas,
with a bound group of galaxies separated to one side. This goes
against accepted "collisionless' dark-matter theories because both
the galaxies and the dark matter should have remained unimpeded in
the collision - in other words, they should be in the same place.
Although the observations could be explained by using a "collisional"
dark matter theory, this would not simultaneously be able to explain
other cluster mergers, such as the Bullet Cluster, that are already
described well by the collisionless theories.
The researchers also say that they could not account for the
observations using MOND. However, Hong-Sheng Zhao - a physicist from
St Andrews University in Scotland who was part of a group that
explained the dynamics of the Bullet Cluster using a relativistic
alternative-gravity theory called TeVeS - told physicsworld.com that
this might be because current simulations of MOND tend to ignore a
subtle time-dependent effect of the gravity field. By including this
effect in future simulations, he says, both the Bullet Cluster and
the Abell 520 cluster could have the chance to be explained with an
alternative-gravity theory. "Right now it is very curious," he said.
|
|
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Date: 19 Aug 2007 12:27:56
From: oriel36
Subject: Re: "Cosmic train wreck" stumps dark-matter physicists
|
On Aug 18, 9:21 pm, "Androcles" <Engin...@hogwarts.physics > wrote:
> "oriel36" <kelleher.ger...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:1187456142.412120.325920@19g2000hsx.googlegroups.com...
> : On Aug 18, 5:35 pm, "Androcles" <Engin...@hogwarts.physics> wrote:
> : > "oriel36" <geraldkelle...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> : >
> : >news:1187452546.268179.29390@50g2000hsm.googlegroups.com...
> : > : When it was discovered that the Sun has a forward motion in one
> : > : direction around the galactic axis rather than being stationary,it
> : > : should have created a background to treat planetary orbital motion,and
> : > : specifically Keplerian orbital geometries,in light of that
> : > : discovery.The Earth spends months travelling in the one direction with
> : > : the Sun by way of galactic orbital motion and months travelling in the
> : > : opposite direction.
> : > :
> : > : In short,treating the Earth's orbital geometry as a compound motion
> : > : between heliocentric and galactic orbital would produce a deviation
> : > : from a circular orbit even without assigning a cause.The idea that the
> : > : solar system is isolated or rather to ignore that the solar system's
> : > : galactic orbital motion does not influence planetary heliocentric
> : > : motion is unfortunate.
> : >
> : > Whatever gave you the idea that Earth has a circular orbit?
> : > Heck, you don't even know what a sidereal day is...
> : >
> :
> : Well I'll be damned,if it is'nt John and his astrological squad,I did
> : not know Sam attached sci.physics to the thread but now that I am here
> : you may as well enjoy the work I discovered 6 months ago -
> :
> :http://www.xs4all.nl/~adcs/Huygens/06/kort-E.html
> :
> : What this tells you John is that Flamsteed made a huge mistake
>
> Still a snivelling fuckhead, huh?
> Back in the killfile with you, tord.
When you try to squeeze four annual orbital cycles of the Earth into a
calendar system with 3 years of 365 days and 1 year of 366 days,the
results are predictable and very astrological.
A reasonably intelligent person recognises that for a star to return
to a meridian in 23 hours 56 minutes 04 seconds of a 24 hour day ,it
requires the calendar system to work which makes it an unsatisfactory
way to explain the axial and orbital motions of the Earth and that is
all that counts.
I cannot account for why anybody would do this,why anybody would
willingly trap themselves in the imagination of Flamsteed who created
the mess but then again it is not my business if the core of your
beliefs is astrological. and especially Newton and his nuisance
ballistic agenda.
|
| |
Date: 18 Aug 2007 16:55:42
From: oriel36
Subject: Re: "Cosmic train wreck" stumps dark-matter physicists
|
On Aug 18, 5:35 pm, "Androcles" <Engin...@hogwarts.physics > wrote:
> "oriel36" <geraldkelle...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> news:1187452546.268179.29390@50g2000hsm.googlegroups.com...
> : When it was discovered that the Sun has a forward motion in one
> : direction around the galactic axis rather than being stationary,it
> : should have created a background to treat planetary orbital motion,and
> : specifically Keplerian orbital geometries,in light of that
> : discovery.The Earth spends months travelling in the one direction with
> : the Sun by way of galactic orbital motion and months travelling in the
> : opposite direction.
> :
> : In short,treating the Earth's orbital geometry as a compound motion
> : between heliocentric and galactic orbital would produce a deviation
> : from a circular orbit even without assigning a cause.The idea that the
> : solar system is isolated or rather to ignore that the solar system's
> : galactic orbital motion does not influence planetary heliocentric
> : motion is unfortunate.
>
> Whatever gave you the idea that Earth has a circular orbit?
> Heck, you don't even know what a sidereal day is...
>
Well I'll be damned,if it is'nt John and his astrological squad,I did
not know Sam attached sci.physics to the thread but now that I am here
you may as well enjoy the work I discovered 6 months ago -
http://www.xs4all.nl/~adcs/Huygens/06/kort-E.html
What this tells you John is that Flamsteed made a huge mistake that
nobody has really picked up on or rather nobody is saying anything
about because Isaac built his ballistic agenda on it.Flamsteed was the
first to use a clock and external references to justify the Earth's
axial and orbital motion by squeezing 4 annual cycles of the Earth
into a calendar system based on 3 years of 365 days and 1 year of 366
days.Does anybody here wish to know why a star returns to a location
in 23 hours 56 minutes 04 seconds regardless of how many days in a
year ?,did'nt think so !.
The price of the grand Newtonian scheme is being trapped in
Flamsteed's astrological geometry* hence the inability to work with
the Earth's compound orbital motions namely its motion around the Sun
and its motion for months in the direction of galactic orbital motion
and months in the opposite direction .I do not fault Isaac for his
17th century view but it sure would be nice to meet guys from the 21st
century who do not genuflect everytime the guy's name is mentioned.He
isolated the solar system and that is all there is to it and if you
can live with that then good for you -
"Cor. 2. And since these stars are liable to no sensible parallax from
the annual motion of the earth, they can have no force, because of
their immense distance, to produce any sensible effect in our system.
Not to mention that the fixed stars, every where promiscuously
dispersed in the heavens, by their contrary actions destroy their
mutual actions, by Prop. LXX, Book I." Newton
You are all happy in your own astrological way and that is all that
counts,
* http://www.opencourse.info/astronomy/introduction/02.motion_stars_sun/celestial_sphere_anim.gif
> :
> : On Aug 18, 2:54 pm, Sam Wormley <sworml...@mchsi.com> wrote:
> : > "Cosmic train wreck" stumps dark-matter physicists
> : > http://physicsworld.com/cws/article/news/30849
> : >
> : > A study of a collision between two galaxy clusters has thrown a
> : > spanner into the works of current dark matter theories. Astronomers
> : > in Canada and the US have looked at how gravity has bent the path of
> : > the light coming from the combined cluster Abell 520 and have
> : > discovered what they call a "cosmic train wreck" - a core of dark
> : > matter and hot gas separated from the galaxies. Until now, dark
> : > matter - the mysterious substance thought to constitute 95% of all
> : > mass in the universe - has only ever been seen following the
> : > galaxies' trajectory (Astrophys. J. in publication).
> : >
> : > Most physicists think dark matter exists because large structures in
> : > the universe appear to be held together by the gravitational
> : > attraction of much more mass than we can see through telescopes. One
> : > way to test theories of dark matter is to study cluster mergers,
> : > which are collisions between galaxy clusters after they have steadily
> : > gravitated towards each other. Cluster mergers are also a testing
> : > ground for alternative theories of gravitation, such as modified
> : > Newtonian dynamics (MOND), that eschew the possibility of dark matter
> : > altogether.
> : >
> : > Observations of the Abell 520 cluster by Andisheh Mahdavi and
> : > colleagues at the University of Victoria, together with Peter Capak
> : > from the California Institute of Technology, however, seem to be
> : > inexplicable using either dark-matter or alternative-gravity
> : > theories.
> : >
> : > The researchers used data taken from the Canada-France-Hawaii
> : > telescope and the Subaru telescope in Hawaii, along with data from
> : > the Chandra X-ray telescope, to see how gravity in the Abell 520
> : > cluster acted as a lens to bend light passing through it on the
> : > light's journey to Earth. Using this "gravitational lensing"
> : > technique, they mapped the distribution of the three components of
> : > the cluster: galaxies, prevalent hot gas and dark matter.
> : >
> : > Mahdavi and colleagues discovered a core of dark matter and hot gas,
> : > with a bound group of galaxies separated to one side. This goes
> : > against accepted "collisionless' dark-matter theories because both
> : > the galaxies and the dark matter should have remained unimpeded in
> : > the collision - in other words, they should be in the same place.
> : > Although the observations could be explained by using a "collisional"
> : > dark matter theory, this would not simultaneously be able to explain
> : > other cluster mergers, such as the Bullet Cluster, that are already
> : > described well by the collisionless theories.
> : >
> : > The researchers also say that they could not account for the
> : > observations using MOND. However, Hong-Sheng Zhao - a physicist from
> : > St Andrews University in Scotland who was part of a group that
> : > explained the dynamics of the Bullet Cluster using a relativistic
> : > alternative-gravity theory called TeVeS - told physicsworld.com that
> : > this might be because current simulations of MOND tend to ignore a
> : > subtle time-dependent effect of the gravity field. By including this
> : > effect in future simulations, he says, both the Bullet Cluster and
> : > the Abell 520 cluster could have the chance to be explained with an
> : > alternative-gravity theory. "Right now it is very curious," he said.
> :
> :
|
| | |
Date: 18 Aug 2007 20:21:51
From: Androcles
Subject: Re: "Cosmic train wreck" stumps dark-matter physicists
|
"oriel36" <kelleher.gerald@gmail.com > wrote in message
news:1187456142.412120.325920@19g2000hsx.googlegroups.com...
: On Aug 18, 5:35 pm, "Androcles" <Engin...@hogwarts.physics > wrote:
: > "oriel36" <geraldkelle...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
: >
: > news:1187452546.268179.29390@50g2000hsm.googlegroups.com...
: > : When it was discovered that the Sun has a forward motion in one
: > : direction around the galactic axis rather than being stationary,it
: > : should have created a background to treat planetary orbital motion,and
: > : specifically Keplerian orbital geometries,in light of that
: > : discovery.The Earth spends months travelling in the one direction with
: > : the Sun by way of galactic orbital motion and months travelling in the
: > : opposite direction.
: > :
: > : In short,treating the Earth's orbital geometry as a compound motion
: > : between heliocentric and galactic orbital would produce a deviation
: > : from a circular orbit even without assigning a cause.The idea that the
: > : solar system is isolated or rather to ignore that the solar system's
: > : galactic orbital motion does not influence planetary heliocentric
: > : motion is unfortunate.
: >
: > Whatever gave you the idea that Earth has a circular orbit?
: > Heck, you don't even know what a sidereal day is...
: >
:
: Well I'll be damned,if it is'nt John and his astrological squad,I did
: not know Sam attached sci.physics to the thread but now that I am here
: you may as well enjoy the work I discovered 6 months ago -
:
: http://www.xs4all.nl/~adcs/Huygens/06/kort-E.html
:
: What this tells you John is that Flamsteed made a huge mistake
Still a snivelling fuckhead, huh?
Back in the killfile with you, tord.
|
| |
Date: 18 Aug 2007 15:55:46
From: oriel36
Subject: Re: "Cosmic train wreck" stumps dark-matter physicists
|
When it was discovered that the Sun has a forward motion in one
direction around the galactic axis rather than being stationary,it
should have created a background to treat planetary orbital motion,and
specifically Keplerian orbital geometries,in light of that
discovery.The Earth spends months travelling in the one direction with
the Sun by way of galactic orbital motion and months travelling in the
opposite direction.
In short,treating the Earth's orbital geometry as a compound motion
between heliocentric and galactic orbital would produce a deviation
from a circular orbit even without assigning a cause.The idea that the
solar system is isolated or rather to ignore that the solar system's
galactic orbital motion does not influence planetary heliocentric
motion is unfortunate.
On Aug 18, 2:54 pm, Sam Wormley <sworml...@mchsi.com > wrote:
> "Cosmic train wreck" stumps dark-matter physicists
> http://physicsworld.com/cws/article/news/30849
>
> A study of a collision between two galaxy clusters has thrown a
> spanner into the works of current dark matter theories. Astronomers
> in Canada and the US have looked at how gravity has bent the path of
> the light coming from the combined cluster Abell 520 and have
> discovered what they call a "cosmic train wreck" - a core of dark
> matter and hot gas separated from the galaxies. Until now, dark
> matter - the mysterious substance thought to constitute 95% of all
> mass in the universe - has only ever been seen following the
> galaxies' trajectory (Astrophys. J. in publication).
>
> Most physicists think dark matter exists because large structures in
> the universe appear to be held together by the gravitational
> attraction of much more mass than we can see through telescopes. One
> way to test theories of dark matter is to study cluster mergers,
> which are collisions between galaxy clusters after they have steadily
> gravitated towards each other. Cluster mergers are also a testing
> ground for alternative theories of gravitation, such as modified
> Newtonian dynamics (MOND), that eschew the possibility of dark matter
> altogether.
>
> Observations of the Abell 520 cluster by Andisheh Mahdavi and
> colleagues at the University of Victoria, together with Peter Capak
> from the California Institute of Technology, however, seem to be
> inexplicable using either dark-matter or alternative-gravity
> theories.
>
> The researchers used data taken from the Canada-France-Hawaii
> telescope and the Subaru telescope in Hawaii, along with data from
> the Chandra X-ray telescope, to see how gravity in the Abell 520
> cluster acted as a lens to bend light passing through it on the
> light's journey to Earth. Using this "gravitational lensing"
> technique, they mapped the distribution of the three components of
> the cluster: galaxies, prevalent hot gas and dark matter.
>
> Mahdavi and colleagues discovered a core of dark matter and hot gas,
> with a bound group of galaxies separated to one side. This goes
> against accepted "collisionless' dark-matter theories because both
> the galaxies and the dark matter should have remained unimpeded in
> the collision - in other words, they should be in the same place.
> Although the observations could be explained by using a "collisional"
> dark matter theory, this would not simultaneously be able to explain
> other cluster mergers, such as the Bullet Cluster, that are already
> described well by the collisionless theories.
>
> The researchers also say that they could not account for the
> observations using MOND. However, Hong-Sheng Zhao - a physicist from
> St Andrews University in Scotland who was part of a group that
> explained the dynamics of the Bullet Cluster using a relativistic
> alternative-gravity theory called TeVeS - told physicsworld.com that
> this might be because current simulations of MOND tend to ignore a
> subtle time-dependent effect of the gravity field. By including this
> effect in future simulations, he says, both the Bullet Cluster and
> the Abell 520 cluster could have the chance to be explained with an
> alternative-gravity theory. "Right now it is very curious," he said.
|
| | |
Date: 18 Aug 2007 16:35:11
From: Androcles
Subject: Re: "Cosmic train wreck" stumps dark-matter physicists
|
"oriel36" <geraldkelleher@yahoo.com > wrote in message
news:1187452546.268179.29390@50g2000hsm.googlegroups.com...
: When it was discovered that the Sun has a forward motion in one
: direction around the galactic axis rather than being stationary,it
: should have created a background to treat planetary orbital motion,and
: specifically Keplerian orbital geometries,in light of that
: discovery.The Earth spends months travelling in the one direction with
: the Sun by way of galactic orbital motion and months travelling in the
: opposite direction.
:
: In short,treating the Earth's orbital geometry as a compound motion
: between heliocentric and galactic orbital would produce a deviation
: from a circular orbit even without assigning a cause.The idea that the
: solar system is isolated or rather to ignore that the solar system's
: galactic orbital motion does not influence planetary heliocentric
: motion is unfortunate.
Whatever gave you the idea that Earth has a circular orbit?
Heck, you don't even know what a sidereal day is...
:
: On Aug 18, 2:54 pm, Sam Wormley <sworml...@mchsi.com > wrote:
: > "Cosmic train wreck" stumps dark-matter physicists
: > http://physicsworld.com/cws/article/news/30849
: >
: > A study of a collision between two galaxy clusters has thrown a
: > spanner into the works of current dark matter theories. Astronomers
: > in Canada and the US have looked at how gravity has bent the path of
: > the light coming from the combined cluster Abell 520 and have
: > discovered what they call a "cosmic train wreck" - a core of dark
: > matter and hot gas separated from the galaxies. Until now, dark
: > matter - the mysterious substance thought to constitute 95% of all
: > mass in the universe - has only ever been seen following the
: > galaxies' trajectory (Astrophys. J. in publication).
: >
: > Most physicists think dark matter exists because large structures in
: > the universe appear to be held together by the gravitational
: > attraction of much more mass than we can see through telescopes. One
: > way to test theories of dark matter is to study cluster mergers,
: > which are collisions between galaxy clusters after they have steadily
: > gravitated towards each other. Cluster mergers are also a testing
: > ground for alternative theories of gravitation, such as modified
: > Newtonian dynamics (MOND), that eschew the possibility of dark matter
: > altogether.
: >
: > Observations of the Abell 520 cluster by Andisheh Mahdavi and
: > colleagues at the University of Victoria, together with Peter Capak
: > from the California Institute of Technology, however, seem to be
: > inexplicable using either dark-matter or alternative-gravity
: > theories.
: >
: > The researchers used data taken from the Canada-France-Hawaii
: > telescope and the Subaru telescope in Hawaii, along with data from
: > the Chandra X-ray telescope, to see how gravity in the Abell 520
: > cluster acted as a lens to bend light passing through it on the
: > light's journey to Earth. Using this "gravitational lensing"
: > technique, they mapped the distribution of the three components of
: > the cluster: galaxies, prevalent hot gas and dark matter.
: >
: > Mahdavi and colleagues discovered a core of dark matter and hot gas,
: > with a bound group of galaxies separated to one side. This goes
: > against accepted "collisionless' dark-matter theories because both
: > the galaxies and the dark matter should have remained unimpeded in
: > the collision - in other words, they should be in the same place.
: > Although the observations could be explained by using a "collisional"
: > dark matter theory, this would not simultaneously be able to explain
: > other cluster mergers, such as the Bullet Cluster, that are already
: > described well by the collisionless theories.
: >
: > The researchers also say that they could not account for the
: > observations using MOND. However, Hong-Sheng Zhao - a physicist from
: > St Andrews University in Scotland who was part of a group that
: > explained the dynamics of the Bullet Cluster using a relativistic
: > alternative-gravity theory called TeVeS - told physicsworld.com that
: > this might be because current simulations of MOND tend to ignore a
: > subtle time-dependent effect of the gravity field. By including this
: > effect in future simulations, he says, both the Bullet Cluster and
: > the Abell 520 cluster could have the chance to be explained with an
: > alternative-gravity theory. "Right now it is very curious," he said.
:
:
|
| |
Date: 18 Aug 2007 14:42:35
From: Eric Gisse
Subject: Re: "Cosmic train wreck" stumps dark-matter physicists
|
On Aug 18, 5:54 am, Sam Wormley <sworml...@mchsi.com > wrote:
[...]
> Mahdavi and colleagues discovered a core of dark matter and hot gas,
> with a bound group of galaxies separated to one side. This goes
> against accepted "collisionless' dark-matter theories because both
> the galaxies and the dark matter should have remained unimpeded in
> the collision - in other words, they should be in the same place.
> Although the observations could be explained by using a "collisional"
> dark matter theory, this would not simultaneously be able to explain
> other cluster mergers, such as the Bullet Cluster, that are already
> described well by the collisionless theories.
I /knew/ there was more fun to be had as soon as we found a few more
galaxies like the Bullet cluster.
Oh god, I hope this does not mean there are /species/ of dark matter.
[...]
TeVeS can get fucked. You have an four-dimensional theory consisting
of an arbitrary tensor, vector, and scalar field. This thing is a
curve fitter's wet dream.
|
| | |
Date: 18 Aug 2007 10:05:48
From: Uncle Al
Subject: Re: "Cosmic train wreck" stumps dark-matter physicists
|
Eric Gisse wrote:
>
> On Aug 18, 5:54 am, Sam Wormley <sworml...@mchsi.com> wrote:
>
> [...]
>
> > Mahdavi and colleagues discovered a core of dark matter and hot gas,
> > with a bound group of galaxies separated to one side. This goes
> > against accepted "collisionless' dark-matter theories because both
> > the galaxies and the dark matter should have remained unimpeded in
> > the collision - in other words, they should be in the same place.
> > Although the observations could be explained by using a "collisional"
> > dark matter theory, this would not simultaneously be able to explain
> > other cluster mergers, such as the Bullet Cluster, that are already
> > described well by the collisionless theories.
>
> I /knew/ there was more fun to be had as soon as we found a few more
> galaxies like the Bullet cluster.
>
> Oh god, I hope this does not mean there are /species/ of dark matter.
>
> [...]
>
> TeVeS can get fucked. You have an four-dimensional theory consisting
> of an arbitrary tensor, vector, and scalar field. This thing is a
> curve fitter's wet dream.
Discrete visual evidence for dark matter is gravitational distortion
of the background re Einstein rings (Bullet Cluster, et alia). The
overall evidence is persistence of spiral galaxies over all visible
time. Why have dark matter at all?
Dark matter creates positive feedback between non-falsifiable
breathless publicity and grant funding (overall academic employment).
One could go GR and Weyl tensor: A whole bunch of stuff
(inelasticially) distorts spacetime itself. Said distortion is
kinetically slow to resolve, or, it is knotted evil with Kuratowski's
theorem and doesn't unravel.
If so, there is nothing mysteriously particulate to detect and
orthodox theory already exists. A rather large number of
theoreticians and experimentalists are out of a job. No log-log graph
of Yukawa potential alpha and lambda can save them.
A heterodox explanation is that angular momentum is *not conserved*
because the vacuum is *not isotropic*. A chiral vacuum background
would source parity violation in the Weak interaction, source
biological homochirality, source cosmic rotational anomalies... and as
an intense chiral pseudoscalar field fuel post-Big Bang Inflation
plus heavily select for matter over anti-matter. Inflation dilution
reduces mass sector vacuum chirality to its present-day
sub-parts-per-trillion relative amplitude.
I'm doing my part. I'm growing single crystal benzil in space groups
P3(1)21 and P3(2)21. The differential scanning calorimeters patiently
await Earth perihelion. It might all cleanly null. It might annoy.
"It doesn't matter how beautiful your theory is, it doesn't matter how
smart you are. If it doesn't agree with experiment, it's wrong,"
Richard P. Feynman
Uncle Al expects the Space Scuttle to Roman candle on re-entry.
Managerial unanimous agreement is a political act not a factual
disclosure. "For a successful technology, reality must take
precedence over public relations, for nature cannot be fooled,"
Richard Feynman.
--
Uncle Al
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/
(Toxic URL! Unsafe for children and most mammals)
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/lajos.htm#a2
|
| | | |
Date: 22 Aug 2007 03:51:19
From: hanson
Subject: Re: "Cosmic train wreck" stumps dark-matter physicists
|
--- [ Bench chemist rect-Al 0 : Management 1 ] ---
>
... on 18-August-2007 at 10:05 AM
"Uncle rect-Al" <UncleAl0@hate.spam.net > wrote in message
news:46C726EC.D9DED76@hate.spam.net...
Uncle Al expects the Space Scuttle to Roman candle
on re-entry. Managerial unanimous agreement is a
political act not a factual disclosure.
>
[hanson]
... on 21-August-2007 at 12:13 PM. EDT
The Space Shuttle touched down, intact!
.. Are you always that malevolently paranoid?
or are you just getting more rect-Al in your
not so golden years?..... ahahahanson
|
| | | |
Date: 18 Aug 2007 12:19:45
From: Eric Gisse
Subject: Re: "Cosmic train wreck" stumps dark-matter physicists
|
On Sat, 18 Aug 2007 10:05:48 -0700, Uncle Al <UncleAl0@hate.spam.net >
wrote:
>Eric Gisse wrote:
>>
>> On Aug 18, 5:54 am, Sam Wormley <sworml...@mchsi.com> wrote:
>>
>> [...]
>>
>> > Mahdavi and colleagues discovered a core of dark matter and hot gas,
>> > with a bound group of galaxies separated to one side. This goes
>> > against accepted "collisionless' dark-matter theories because both
>> > the galaxies and the dark matter should have remained unimpeded in
>> > the collision - in other words, they should be in the same place.
>> > Although the observations could be explained by using a "collisional"
>> > dark matter theory, this would not simultaneously be able to explain
>> > other cluster mergers, such as the Bullet Cluster, that are already
>> > described well by the collisionless theories.
>>
>> I /knew/ there was more fun to be had as soon as we found a few more
>> galaxies like the Bullet cluster.
>>
>> Oh god, I hope this does not mean there are /species/ of dark matter.
>>
>> [...]
>>
>> TeVeS can get fucked. You have an four-dimensional theory consisting
>> of an arbitrary tensor, vector, and scalar field. This thing is a
>> curve fitter's wet dream.
>
>Discrete visual evidence for dark matter is gravitational distortion
>of the background re Einstein rings (Bullet Cluster, et alia). The
>overall evidence is persistence of spiral galaxies over all visible
>time. Why have dark matter at all?
1) We can't toss out weak-lensing, rotation curves, and the Bullet
Cluster out without a /very/ good reason.
2) We haven't found a better model for the large scale structure of
the universe that doesn't incorporate dark matter.
3) Dark matter gives particle physicists a chubby.
>
>Dark matter creates positive feedback between non-falsifiable
>breathless publicity and grant funding (overall academic employment).
>One could go GR and Weyl tensor: A whole bunch of stuff
>(inelasticially) distorts spacetime itself. Said distortion is
>kinetically slow to resolve, or, it is knotted evil with Kuratowski's
>theorem and doesn't unravel.
Well /SOMETHING/ is going on. Abel 520 and the Bullet cluster are
clues.
You need something to replace dark matter. MOND does /not/ cut it.
TeVeS does /not/ cut it - remember your speil about an arbitrary
number of parameters being able to fit arbitrary amounts of data
within arbitrary epsilon? Same thing.
>
>If so, there is nothing mysteriously particulate to detect and
>orthodox theory already exists. A rather large number of
>theoreticians and experimentalists are out of a job. No log-log graph
>of Yukawa potential alpha and lambda can save them.
>
>A heterodox explanation is that angular momentum is *not conserved*
>because the vacuum is *not isotropic*. A chiral vacuum background
>would source parity violation in the Weak interaction, source
>biological homochirality, source cosmic rotational anomalies... and as
>an intense chiral pseudoscalar field fuel post-Big Bang Inflation
>plus heavily select for matter over anti-matter. Inflation dilution
>reduces mass sector vacuum chirality to its present-day
>sub-parts-per-trillion relative amplitude.
That is full-fledged guessing. If you think a proposed microscopic
violation of the EP via a chiral vacuum would solve 10 years of
cosmological headaches, I'd love to see the analysis.
>
>I'm doing my part. I'm growing single crystal benzil in space groups
>P3(1)21 and P3(2)21. The differential scanning calorimeters patiently
>await Earth perihelion. It might all cleanly null. It might annoy.
>"It doesn't matter how beautiful your theory is, it doesn't matter how
>smart you are. If it doesn't agree with experiment, it's wrong,"
>Richard P. Feynman
Well something is certainly fucked with large scale gravitation...
>
>
>Uncle Al expects the Space Scuttle to Roman candle on re-entry.
Evacuate the crew to the ISS. Land the shuttle on automatic.
Take all the crew out of the ISS via Soyuz. Deorbit the ISS.
Tow the remaining shuttles out into the south pacific on mothballed
naval vessles.
Detonate a 1MT thermonuclear device. Preferably on the 4th.
With all of the NASA budget dedicated to the Shuttle and the ISS freed
up, we can start building a real space exploration program. Stuff it
all into building robotic probes and space-based technologies for a
decade or so.
In the mean time, work on nuclear technologies. After that, we can
finally build a /real/ space program with nuclear engines. Eeither
through a variation on Orion or through some of the /exceptionally
kewl/, and powerful, nuclear engines with multi-hundred thousand
specific impulses.
>Managerial unanimous agreement is a political act not a factual
>disclosure. "For a successful technology, reality must take
>precedence over public relations, for nature cannot be fooled,"
>Richard Feynman.
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Date: 19 Aug 2007 07:49:29
From: G. L. Bradford
Subject: Re: "Cosmic train wreck" stumps dark-matter physicists
|
Our own Moon is about 1.3 light seconds away from any observer on Earth.
Relatively speaking, the observed Moon is minus 1.3 seconds in time to the
observer's time here on Earth. That is all light time universe stuff talking
any observed point any horizon of distance away from any observer.
The material Moon is plus 1.3 seconds to that observed immaterial Moon
minus 1.3 seconds relative to the observer here and now on Earth. The
material Moon is "dark" universe stuff only indirectly observable concerning
the observer on Earth 1.3 light seconds away for being simultaneous in time
with the Earth and the observer. It, not the observed immaterial light time
universe Moon, has all of the matter, mass, energy, gravity and
gravitational signature, substance.
That material Moon is 1.3 seconds in the future of the immaterial Moon
observed by the observer on Earth, thus it is also to be considered at the
very least 1.3 seconds in the future of any traveler from Earth who would
always start out with a light time universe handicap of the Moon being minus
1.3 seconds in time relative to himself while he is an observer on Earth yet
to become a traveler. It will always be the material Moon any traveler will
be concerned with. The "dark" matter and energy Moon simultaneous to Earth
here and now and only detectable via its gravitational signature, thus only
indirectly observable (only peripherally observable).
The Moon is too close to the Earth and the observer on Earth for the
difference to stand out. The distant horizon in light time of the Bullet
cluster is a far different matter and the difference will stand out
awesomely rather than negligibly.
I've faciously asked before, "Where have all the galaxies gone?" Where and
to what "dark" future states simultaneous in space and time to any observer
on Earth here and now? The more distant in horizon in light time we observe
light time universe galaxies and other bigger picture phenomena the more
hellishly complex and chaotic grows the answers because they must layer --
must compound -- in complexity and chaos of answers as far as any local
observer is concerned. We are getting some answers, up to an uncertain
point, to my question in those "dark" matter and energy universe
gravitational signatures.
--------------------
An aside:
"..., up to an uncertain point, ..." -- To me the infinity and/or the
infinities of the Universe are never out of sight of this mind's eye. They
will always be represented in some way, shape, or form, and always be in
play (as the fundamental cause -- the fundamental cause to exist -- of the
'animation' of that "play" to begin with). No infinity and/or infinities, no
animation (no play)!
--------------------
GLB
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| | |
Date: 18 Aug 2007 10:56:49
From: Dr. Planckenstein
Subject: Re: "Cosmic train wreck" stumps dark-matter physicists
|
"Eric Gisse" <jowr.pi@gmail.com > wrote in message
news:1187448155.178723.56510@x35g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
> On Aug 18, 5:54 am, Sam Wormley <sworml...@mchsi.com> wrote:
>
> [...]
>
> > Mahdavi and colleagues discovered a core of dark matter and hot gas,
> > with a bound group of galaxies separated to one side. This goes
> > against accepted "collisionless' dark-matter theories because both
> > the galaxies and the dark matter should have remained unimpeded in
> > the collision - in other words, they should be in the same place.
> > Although the observations could be explained by using a "collisional"
> > dark matter theory, this would not simultaneously be able to explain
> > other cluster mergers, such as the Bullet Cluster, that are already
> > described well by the collisionless theories.
>
> I /knew/ there was more fun to be had as soon as we found a few more
> galaxies like the Bullet cluster.
>
> Oh god, I hope this does not mean there are /species/ of dark matter.
There is only one species of any type of anything. It is an existential
potential. Length is probabilistic. All of this dark matter hoopla is just a
big ol' bug-a-boo.
There is no reason why a given region of any size you wish on the order of
an astronomical unit or even a parsec might not be probabilistically
rarified or enriched, existentially, resulting in gravity in that region
where atoms are invisible because of course there are none.
The same reasoning obviously provides a perfectly good model of the atom
itself.
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