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Date: 21 May 2007 05:24:09
From: Ed
Subject: Changes on Neptune link Sun & Global Warming?
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I just got this from a fellow member of The Bucks Mont. Astronomical
Assoc., Inc....
Changes on Neptune Link Sun and Global Warming
Skeptics of man made global warming have found further support in
research linking solar output with the planet Neptune's brightness and
temperatures on Earth.
The findings appeared in a recent issue of Geophysical Research
Letters. The authors of the article, H.B. Hammel and G.W. Lockwood
from the Space Science Institute in Colorado and the Lowell
Observatory in Arizona, note that measurements of visible light from
Neptune have been taken at the Observatory since 1950.
Those measurements indicate that Neptune has been getting brighter
since around 1980. And infrared measurements of the planet since 1980
show that Neptune has been warming steadily as well.
The researchers plotted on a graph the changes in visible light from
Neptune over the past half-century, changes in temperatures on Earth
during that period, and changes in total solar irradiance.
The results: The correlation between solar irradiance and Neptune's
brightness was nearly perfect; so was the correlation between changes
on Earth and solar output, according to a report on the research
appearing on World Climate Report, a climate change blog.
"When the sun is more energetic and putting out more energy, the Earth
tends to warm up, and when the sun cools down, so does the Earth,"
World Climate Report notes. "The Hammel and Lockwood article reveals
that the same is true out at Neptune - when the sun's energy
increases, Neptune seems to warm up and get brighter . . .
"How is it possible that the Earth's temperature is so highly
correlated with brightness variations from Neptune? The news from
Neptune comes to us just weeks after an article was published showing
that Mars has warmed recently as well.
"If nothing else, we have certainly learned recently that planets
undergo changes in their mean temperature, and while we can easily
blame human activity here on the Earth, blaming humans for the recent
warming on Mars and Neptune would be an astronomical stretch, to say
the least."
Sam, what do you think?
Some months back, I did contact SOHO and asked if there really were
any indications that solar irradiance was up apart from the natural
variablility of the sunspot cycle. They said no.
Problem I see with this is that if there really was it should be
very,very visible.
Ed Murray
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Date: 26 May 2007 00:54:43
From: Mik3
Subject: Re: Changes on Neptune link Sun & Global Warming?
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In a related story? : "Man pumps himself full of gas and blows himself to
Neptune to prove there is no global warming".
Ed wrote:
> I just got this from a fellow member of The Bucks Mont. Astronomical
> Assoc., Inc....
>
> Changes on Neptune Link Sun and Global Warming
> Skeptics of man made global warming have found further support in
> research linking solar output with the planet Neptune's brightness and
> temperatures on Earth.
> The findings appeared in a recent issue of Geophysical Research
> Letters. The authors of the article, H.B. Hammel and G.W. Lockwood
> from the Space Science Institute in Colorado and the Lowell
> Observatory in Arizona, note that measurements of visible light from
> Neptune have been taken at the Observatory since 1950.
> Those measurements indicate that Neptune has been getting brighter
> since around 1980. And infrared measurements of the planet since 1980
> show that Neptune has been warming steadily as well.
> The researchers plotted on a graph the changes in visible light from
> Neptune over the past half-century, changes in temperatures on Earth
> during that period, and changes in total solar irradiance.
> The results: The correlation between solar irradiance and Neptune's
> brightness was nearly perfect; so was the correlation between changes
> on Earth and solar output, according to a report on the research
> appearing on World Climate Report, a climate change blog.
> "When the sun is more energetic and putting out more energy, the Earth
> tends to warm up, and when the sun cools down, so does the Earth,"
> World Climate Report notes. "The Hammel and Lockwood article reveals
> that the same is true out at Neptune - when the sun's energy
> increases, Neptune seems to warm up and get brighter . . .
> "How is it possible that the Earth's temperature is so highly
> correlated with brightness variations from Neptune? The news from
> Neptune comes to us just weeks after an article was published showing
> that Mars has warmed recently as well.
> "If nothing else, we have certainly learned recently that planets
> undergo changes in their mean temperature, and while we can easily
> blame human activity here on the Earth, blaming humans for the recent
> warming on Mars and Neptune would be an astronomical stretch, to say
> the least."
>
> Sam, what do you think?
>
> Some months back, I did contact SOHO and asked if there really were
> any indications that solar irradiance was up apart from the natural
> variablility of the sunspot cycle. They said no.
>
> Problem I see with this is that if there really was it should be
> very,very visible.
>
> Ed Murray
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Date: 21 May 2007 09:30:32
From: Ed
Subject: Re: Changes on Neptune link Sun & Global Warming?
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I just wanted to say further that because of my work, I want to be up
on any additional "evidence" that naysayers of Global Warming might be
trying to throw out there to bolster their beliefs.
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Date: 21 May 2007 09:23:02
From: Ed
Subject: Re: Changes on Neptune link Sun & Global Warming?
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I'm not coming out in favor of this study or it's findings. I'm just
wondering if anyone has read of this or has heard anything:)
To me, if there has been an appreciable change, it should be pretty
apparent as in the brightness of every solar system body. Solar
Astronomers, as in those associated with SOHO would see it,
climatologists would see it as well as others.
No doubt many, many professional and amateur astronomers would see it
including those who are really professional in their research.
I would even go so far as to believe that Steve O'Meara, due to his
very keen eyesight, would have been able to pick up on this.
Not to mention being heavily discussed by everyone and being included
in the popular mags S & T and Astronomy etc.
And in 50 years only 2 scientists have seen this?
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Date: 21 May 2007 09:09:33
From: Darian
Subject: Re: Changes on Neptune link Sun & Global Warming?
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On May 21, 9:25 am, Sam Wormley <sworml...@mchsi.com > wrote:
> Ed wrote:
> > I just got this from a fellow member of The Bucks Mont. Astronomical
> > Assoc., Inc....
>
> > Changes on Neptune Link Sun and Global Warming
> > Skeptics of man made global warming have found further support in
> > research linking solar output with the planet Neptune's brightness and
> > temperatures on Earth.
> > The findings appeared in a recent issue of Geophysical Research
> > Letters. The authors of the article, H.B. Hammel and G.W. Lockwood
> > from the Space Science Institute in Colorado and the Lowell
> > Observatory in Arizona, note that measurements of visible light from
> > Neptune have been taken at the Observatory since 1950.
> > Those measurements indicate that Neptune has been getting brighter
> > since around 1980. And infrared measurements of the planet since 1980
> > show that Neptune has been warming steadily as well.
> > The researchers plotted on a graph the changes in visible light from
> > Neptune over the past half-century, changes in temperatures on Earth
> > during that period, and changes in total solar irradiance.
> > The results: The correlation between solar irradiance and Neptune's
> > brightness was nearly perfect; so was the correlation between changes
> > on Earth and solar output, according to a report on the research
> > appearing on World Climate Report, a climate change blog.
> > "When the sun is more energetic and putting out more energy, the Earth
> > tends to warm up, and when the sun cools down, so does the Earth,"
> > World Climate Report notes. "The Hammel and Lockwood article reveals
> > that the same is true out at Neptune - when the sun's energy
> > increases, Neptune seems to warm up and get brighter . . .
> > "How is it possible that the Earth's temperature is so highly
> > correlated with brightness variations from Neptune? The news from
> > Neptune comes to us just weeks after an article was published showing
> > that Mars has warmed recently as well.
> > "If nothing else, we have certainly learned recently that planets
> > undergo changes in their mean temperature, and while we can easily
> > blame human activity here on the Earth, blaming humans for the recent
> > warming on Mars and Neptune would be an astronomical stretch, to say
> > the least."
>
> > Sam, what do you think?
>
> Ed, to the best of my knowledge there is no evidence to support
> the idea that the sun is causing anomalous warming of several
> solar system objects simultaneously. Please cite any credible
> sources to the contrary.
>
> There is plenty of evidence, however, to support human activity
> contributing to the global warming currently in progress on the
> earth.
>
> Again, please cite credible evidence for anomalous warming in
> the solar system.
>
>
>
> > Some months back, I did contact SOHO and asked if there really were
> > any indications that solar irradiance was up apart from the natural
> > variablility of the sunspot cycle. They said no.
>
> > Problem I see with this is that if there really was it should be
> > very,very visible.
>
> > Ed Murray
Sam, I am not trying to be antagonistic by asking this question, but
do you think there is any credible evidence suggesting that global
warmimg is not caused by human activity.
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Date: 21 May 2007 16:43:23
From: Sam Wormley
Subject: Re: Changes on Neptune link Sun & Global Warming?
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Darian wrote:
> On May 21, 9:25 am, Sam Wormley <sworml...@mchsi.com> wrote:
>> Ed wrote:
>>> I just got this from a fellow member of The Bucks Mont. Astronomical
>>> Assoc., Inc....
>>> Changes on Neptune Link Sun and Global Warming
>>> Skeptics of man made global warming have found further support in
>>> research linking solar output with the planet Neptune's brightness and
>>> temperatures on Earth.
>>> The findings appeared in a recent issue of Geophysical Research
>>> Letters. The authors of the article, H.B. Hammel and G.W. Lockwood
>>> from the Space Science Institute in Colorado and the Lowell
>>> Observatory in Arizona, note that measurements of visible light from
>>> Neptune have been taken at the Observatory since 1950.
>>> Those measurements indicate that Neptune has been getting brighter
>>> since around 1980. And infrared measurements of the planet since 1980
>>> show that Neptune has been warming steadily as well.
>>> The researchers plotted on a graph the changes in visible light from
>>> Neptune over the past half-century, changes in temperatures on Earth
>>> during that period, and changes in total solar irradiance.
>>> The results: The correlation between solar irradiance and Neptune's
>>> brightness was nearly perfect; so was the correlation between changes
>>> on Earth and solar output, according to a report on the research
>>> appearing on World Climate Report, a climate change blog.
>>> "When the sun is more energetic and putting out more energy, the Earth
>>> tends to warm up, and when the sun cools down, so does the Earth,"
>>> World Climate Report notes. "The Hammel and Lockwood article reveals
>>> that the same is true out at Neptune - when the sun's energy
>>> increases, Neptune seems to warm up and get brighter . . .
>>> "How is it possible that the Earth's temperature is so highly
>>> correlated with brightness variations from Neptune? The news from
>>> Neptune comes to us just weeks after an article was published showing
>>> that Mars has warmed recently as well.
>>> "If nothing else, we have certainly learned recently that planets
>>> undergo changes in their mean temperature, and while we can easily
>>> blame human activity here on the Earth, blaming humans for the recent
>>> warming on Mars and Neptune would be an astronomical stretch, to say
>>> the least."
>>> Sam, what do you think?
>> Ed, to the best of my knowledge there is no evidence to support
>> the idea that the sun is causing anomalous warming of several
>> solar system objects simultaneously. Please cite any credible
>> sources to the contrary.
>>
>> There is plenty of evidence, however, to support human activity
>> contributing to the global warming currently in progress on the
>> earth.
>>
>> Again, please cite credible evidence for anomalous warming in
>> the solar system.
>>
>>
>>
>>> Some months back, I did contact SOHO and asked if there really were
>>> any indications that solar irradiance was up apart from the natural
>>> variablility of the sunspot cycle. They said no.
>>> Problem I see with this is that if there really was it should be
>>> very,very visible.
>>> Ed Murray
>
> Sam, I am not trying to be antagonistic by asking this question, but
> do you think there is any credible evidence suggesting that global
> warmimg is not caused by human activity.
>
It is always possible that human activity is not what is driving
the current global warming--time will tell.
Download the IPCC report and replay the Paris press conference
http://ipcc-wg1.ucar.edu/
Worse to Come From Global Warming
http://sciencenow.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/full/2007/406/1
By Richard A. Kerr
ScienceNOW Daily News
6 April 2007
The U.N.-sponsored Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC)
report released today in Brussels has a familiar ring. As the climate
disasters headlined recently--intense hurricanes, drought in the
American West, Arctic thawing--become commonplace in a greenhouse
world, plants, animals, and people will suffer. That has been the
presumption, but the latest report from the IPCC projecting
greenhouse impacts calculates mounting costs that will fall the
heaviest on the world's poor.
February's IPCC report on the physical science of climate
(ScienceNOW, 2 February) firmly links most of the recent warming of
the world to human activity. Scientists authoring the second report
had a tougher challenge: figuring out the likely consequences. To do
that, they considered 29,000 datasets from 75 studies. Of those data
series, 89% showed changes--receding glaciers or earlier blooming,
for example--consistent with a response to warming. Because those
responses usually occurred where the warming has been greatest, the
scientists concluded that it's "very unlikely" the changes were due
to natural variability of climate or of the system involved. "For the
first time, we concluded anthropogenic warming has had an influence
on many physical and biological systems," says Cynthia Rosenzweig of
NASA's Goddard Institute for Space Studies in New York City, a
coordinating lead author on the report.
The IPCC scientists also projected the effects of future warming.
Assuming that nothing's done to slow greenhouse emissions, the
February report predicted a temperature increase of roughly 3°C
toward the end of the century, drying at lower latitudes, more
precipitation at higher latitudes, and rising sea levels. This report
finds that such a warming will bleach most coral reefs by
mid-century, drying will begin decreasing crop yields at lower
latitudes within a few decades, and sea level rise and tropical
cyclone intensification will increase the likelihood of millions of
people being flooded out each year on river mega-deltas such as that
of the Ganges-Brahmaputra in southern Asia.
Bottom line? "You don't want to be poor and living on a river delta
or the Florida coast," says climate scientist Stephen Schneider of
Stanford University, a coordinating lead author. The poor--especially
subsistence farmers--tend to be more vulnerable to climate change,
notes the report. And they are least able to adapt, say by building
levees against storms or dams for irrigation. Schneider's other
advice: "Try not to go over 2°C or 3°C because that triggers the
really nasty stuff." With that much warming, the bad effects of this
century only get worse, and the rare benefits, such as higher crop
yields in wetter areas, fade. To avoid that disaster, see next
month's IPCC report on how to reduce greenhouse gas emissions.
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Date: 21 May 2007 14:25:44
From: Sam Wormley
Subject: Re: Changes on Neptune link Sun & Global Warming?
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Ed wrote:
> I just got this from a fellow member of The Bucks Mont. Astronomical
> Assoc., Inc....
>
> Changes on Neptune Link Sun and Global Warming
> Skeptics of man made global warming have found further support in
> research linking solar output with the planet Neptune's brightness and
> temperatures on Earth.
> The findings appeared in a recent issue of Geophysical Research
> Letters. The authors of the article, H.B. Hammel and G.W. Lockwood
> from the Space Science Institute in Colorado and the Lowell
> Observatory in Arizona, note that measurements of visible light from
> Neptune have been taken at the Observatory since 1950.
> Those measurements indicate that Neptune has been getting brighter
> since around 1980. And infrared measurements of the planet since 1980
> show that Neptune has been warming steadily as well.
> The researchers plotted on a graph the changes in visible light from
> Neptune over the past half-century, changes in temperatures on Earth
> during that period, and changes in total solar irradiance.
> The results: The correlation between solar irradiance and Neptune's
> brightness was nearly perfect; so was the correlation between changes
> on Earth and solar output, according to a report on the research
> appearing on World Climate Report, a climate change blog.
> "When the sun is more energetic and putting out more energy, the Earth
> tends to warm up, and when the sun cools down, so does the Earth,"
> World Climate Report notes. "The Hammel and Lockwood article reveals
> that the same is true out at Neptune - when the sun's energy
> increases, Neptune seems to warm up and get brighter . . .
> "How is it possible that the Earth's temperature is so highly
> correlated with brightness variations from Neptune? The news from
> Neptune comes to us just weeks after an article was published showing
> that Mars has warmed recently as well.
> "If nothing else, we have certainly learned recently that planets
> undergo changes in their mean temperature, and while we can easily
> blame human activity here on the Earth, blaming humans for the recent
> warming on Mars and Neptune would be an astronomical stretch, to say
> the least."
>
> Sam, what do you think?
Ed, to the best of my knowledge there is no evidence to support
the idea that the sun is causing anomalous warming of several
solar system objects simultaneously. Please cite any credible
sources to the contrary.
There is plenty of evidence, however, to support human activity
contributing to the global warming currently in progress on the
earth.
Again, please cite credible evidence for anomalous warming in
the solar system.
>
> Some months back, I did contact SOHO and asked if there really were
> any indications that solar irradiance was up apart from the natural
> variablility of the sunspot cycle. They said no.
>
> Problem I see with this is that if there really was it should be
> very,very visible.
>
> Ed Murray
>
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Date: 21 May 2007 10:42:42
From: Greg Crinklaw
Subject: Re: Changes on Neptune link Sun & Global Warming?
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Sam Wormley wrote:
> Ed, to the best of my knowledge there is no evidence to support
> the idea that the sun is causing anomalous warming of several
> solar system objects simultaneously. Please cite any credible
> sources to the contrary.
>
> There is plenty of evidence, however, to support human activity
> contributing to the global warming currently in progress on the
> earth.
>
> Again, please cite credible evidence for anomalous warming in
> the solar system.
While I agree that there is overwhelming evidence to support a causal
relationship between global warming and human activities, and
ground-based observations of the solar output show it constant, I
wonder, are you actually claiming that Hammel and Lockwood are not
credible? That would seem a rather knee jerk reaction to me. Or did
you even read the paper?
There is a very interesting and as yet understood relationship between
the Sun and Neptune, that much is certain.
Greg
--
Greg Crinklaw
Astronomical Software Developer
Cloudcroft, New Mexico, USA (33N, 106W, 2700m)
SkyTools: http://www.skyhound.com/cs.html
Observing: http://www.skyhound.com/sh/skyhound.html
Comets: http://www.skyhound.com/sh/comets.html
To reply take out your eye
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Date: 21 May 2007 12:42:50
From: Eugene Griessel
Subject: Re: Changes on Neptune link Sun & Global Warming?
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Ed <ed1ward2@verizon.net > wrote:
>Some months back, I did contact SOHO and asked if there really were
>any indications that solar irradiance was up apart from the natural
>variablility of the sunspot cycle. They said no.
>
>Problem I see with this is that if there really was it should be
>very,very visible.
I go with an eminent solar expert from Wales who also says "no".
Eugene L Griessel
History does not repeat itself except in the minds of those who do
not know history. - Kahlil Gibran
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