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Main
Date: 26 Apr 2007 05:00:58
From: Sam Wormley
Subject: Astronomers Find First Earth-like Planet in Habitable Zone
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Astronomers Find First Earth-like Planet in Habitable Zone
http://eso.org/outreach/press-rel/pr-2007/pr-22-07.html
Astronomers have discovered the most Earth-like planet outside our
Solar System to date, an exoplanet with a radius only 50% larger than
the Earth and capable of having liquid water. Using the ESO 3.6-m
telescope, a team of Swiss, French and Portuguese scientists discovered
a super-Earth about 5 times the mass of the Earth that orbits a red
dwarf, already known to harbour a Neptune-mass planet. The astronomers
have also strong evidence for the presence of a third planet with a
mass about 8 Earth masses.
This exoplanet - as astronomers call planets around a star other than
the Sun - is the smallest ever found up to now [1] and it completes a
full orbit in 13 days. It is 14 times closer to its star than the Earth
is from the Sun. However, given that its host star, the red dwarf
Gliese 581 [2], is smaller and colder than the Sun - and thus less
luminous - the planet nevertheless lies in the habitable zone, the
region around a star where water could be liquid! The planet's name is
Gliese 581 c.
See: http://eso.org/outreach/press-rel/pr-2007/pr-22-07.html
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Date: 29 Apr 2007 13:26:33
From:
Subject: Re: Astronomers Find First Earth-like Planet in Habitable Zone
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On 29 Apr, 21:12, pau...@saaf.se (Paul Schlyter) wrote:
> In article <wU4Zh.7991$Dq6.2882@edtnps82>, Mick <M...@nospam.net> wrote:
> > They don't even know if a magnetic field exists and never will know.
>
> You should be careful when claiming something will "never" be known.
> You might be wrong, you know. Which you of course really know - right?
>
> > So cut the "other life" baloney. At least for now.
>
> > When they come up with a method of determining or infering magnetic
> > fields present around distant planets,
>
> When? Not if? Ok, when -- that means you're convinced this will happen
> sooner or later. But above you claimed it never would happen - a
> nice self-contradiction !!
>
> > then and ONLY then can w speak of possible life.
>
> Why would the presence of a magnetic field be necessary for the
> possibility of life on a planet?
Protection from the solar wind/discharges which would otherwise
strip away the atmosphere. Not much life can surivive in a plasma.
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> Paul Schlyter, Grev Turegatan 40, SE-114 38 Stockholm, SWEDEN
> e-mail: pausch at stockholm dot bostream dot se
> WWW: http://stjarnhimlen.se/
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Date: 29 Apr 2007 22:12:59
From: Paul Schlyter
Subject: Re: Astronomers Find First Earth-like Planet in Habitable Zone
|
In article <1177878393.768757.316040@y80g2000hsf.googlegroups.com >,
<whitely525@yahoo.co.uk > wrote:
> On 29 Apr, 21:12, pau...@saaf.se (Paul Schlyter) wrote:
>> In article <wU4Zh.7991$Dq6.2882@edtnps82>, Mick <M...@nospam.net> wrote:
>>> They don't even know if a magnetic field exists and never will know.
>>
>> You should be careful when claiming something will "never" be known.
>> You might be wrong, you know. Which you of course really know - right?
>>
>>> So cut the "other life" baloney. At least for now.
>>
>>> When they come up with a method of determining or infering magnetic
>>> fields present around distant planets,
>>
>> When? Not if? Ok, when -- that means you're convinced this will happen
>> sooner or later. But above you claimed it never would happen - a
>> nice self-contradiction !!
>>
>>> then and ONLY then can w speak of possible life.
>>
>> Why would the presence of a magnetic field be necessary for the
>> possibility of life on a planet?
>
> Protection from the solar wind/discharges which would otherwise
> strip away the atmosphere. Not much life can surivive in a plasma.
A planet can have an atmosphere without having a magnetic field. Look
at Venus! Its atmosphere is some 100 times denser than the Earth's
atmosphere, despite the lack of a magnetic field at Venus. In
addition, Venus is subjected to a solar wind about twice as intense as
the Earth is, since Venus is closer to the Sun.
--
----------------------------------------------------------------
Paul Schlyter, Grev Turegatan 40, SE-114 38 Stockholm, SWEDEN
e-mail: pausch at stockholm dot bostream dot se
WWW: http://stjarnhimlen.se/
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Date: 29 Apr 2007 21:12:17
From:
Subject: Re: Astronomers Find First Earth-like Planet in Habitable Zone
|
In article <1177878393.768757.316040@y80g2000hsf.googlegroups.com >, whitely525@yahoo.co.uk writes:
>On 29 Apr, 21:12, pau...@saaf.se (Paul Schlyter) wrote:
>> In article <wU4Zh.7991$Dq6.2882@edtnps82>, Mick <M...@nospam.net> wrote:
>> > They don't even know if a magnetic field exists and never will know.
>>
>> You should be careful when claiming something will "never" be known.
>> You might be wrong, you know. Which you of course really know - right?
>>
>> > So cut the "other life" baloney. At least for now.
>>
>> > When they come up with a method of determining or infering magnetic
>> > fields present around distant planets,
>>
>> When? Not if? Ok, when -- that means you're convinced this will happen
>> sooner or later. But above you claimed it never would happen - a
>> nice self-contradiction !!
>>
>> > then and ONLY then can w speak of possible life.
>>
>> Why would the presence of a magnetic field be necessary for the
>> possibility of life on a planet?
>
>Protection from the solar wind/discharges which would otherwise
>strip away the atmosphere. Not much life can surivive in a plasma.
>
Considering that the solar wind carries many order of magnitude less
energy than the solar EM radiation (which is not influenced by
magnetic fields) and that said EM radiation doesn't strip away
atmospheres, from planetary bodies of reasonable size and at
reasonable distance from the Sun, the claim above seems to be a UL.
Note that Venus (which is closer to the Sun than Earth is) has
miniscule magnetic field, most recent measurements put it at about
10^(-5) this of Earth. Yet, it has no problem maintaining a vast
atmosphere.
Mati Meron
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Date: 03 May 2007 20:08:28
From:
Subject: Re: Astronomers Find First Earth-like Planet in Habitable Zone
|
On Sun, 29 Apr 2007 21:12:17 GMT, mmeron@cars3.uchicago.edu wrote:
>In article <1177878393.768757.316040@y80g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>, whitely525@yahoo.co.uk writes:
>>On 29 Apr, 21:12, pau...@saaf.se (Paul Schlyter) wrote:
>>> In article <wU4Zh.7991$Dq6.2882@edtnps82>, Mick <M...@nospam.net> wrote:
>>> > They don't even know if a magnetic field exists and never will know.
>>>
>>> You should be careful when claiming something will "never" be known.
>>> You might be wrong, you know. Which you of course really know - right?
>>>
>>> > So cut the "other life" baloney. At least for now.
>>>
>>> > When they come up with a method of determining or infering magnetic
>>> > fields present around distant planets,
>>>
>>> When? Not if? Ok, when -- that means you're convinced this will happen
>>> sooner or later. But above you claimed it never would happen - a
>>> nice self-contradiction !!
>>>
>>> > then and ONLY then can w speak of possible life.
>>>
>>> Why would the presence of a magnetic field be necessary for the
>>> possibility of life on a planet?
>>
>>Protection from the solar wind/discharges which would otherwise
>>strip away the atmosphere. Not much life can surivive in a plasma.
>>
>Considering that the solar wind carries many order of magnitude less
>energy than the solar EM radiation (which is not influenced by
>magnetic fields) and that said EM radiation doesn't strip away
>atmospheres, from planetary bodies of reasonable size and at
>reasonable distance from the Sun, the claim above seems to be a UL.
>Note that Venus (which is closer to the Sun than Earth is) has
>miniscule magnetic field, most recent measurements put it at about
>10^(-5) this of Earth. Yet, it has no problem maintaining a vast
>atmosphere.
Not to mention the fact that Earth's field goes null, or close to it,
every time it changes polarity. We and our atmosphere are still here.
--
Möbius
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Date: 04 May 2007 02:10:43
From:
Subject: Re: Astronomers Find First Earth-like Planet in Habitable Zone
|
In article <c5uk33da19cge3ich39gflgcut7799ul2l@4ax.com >, möbius@nospam.net writes:
>On Sun, 29 Apr 2007 21:12:17 GMT, mmeron@cars3.uchicago.edu wrote:
>
>>In article <1177878393.768757.316040@y80g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>, whitely525@yahoo.co.uk writes:
>>>On 29 Apr, 21:12, pau...@saaf.se (Paul Schlyter) wrote:
>>>> In article <wU4Zh.7991$Dq6.2882@edtnps82>, Mick <M...@nospam.net> wrote:
>>>> > They don't even know if a magnetic field exists and never will know.
>>>>
>>>> You should be careful when claiming something will "never" be known.
>>>> You might be wrong, you know. Which you of course really know - right?
>>>>
>>>> > So cut the "other life" baloney. At least for now.
>>>>
>>>> > When they come up with a method of determining or infering magnetic
>>>> > fields present around distant planets,
>>>>
>>>> When? Not if? Ok, when -- that means you're convinced this will happen
>>>> sooner or later. But above you claimed it never would happen - a
>>>> nice self-contradiction !!
>>>>
>>>> > then and ONLY then can w speak of possible life.
>>>>
>>>> Why would the presence of a magnetic field be necessary for the
>>>> possibility of life on a planet?
>>>
>>>Protection from the solar wind/discharges which would otherwise
>>>strip away the atmosphere. Not much life can surivive in a plasma.
>>>
>>Considering that the solar wind carries many order of magnitude less
>>energy than the solar EM radiation (which is not influenced by
>>magnetic fields) and that said EM radiation doesn't strip away
>>atmospheres, from planetary bodies of reasonable size and at
>>reasonable distance from the Sun, the claim above seems to be a UL.
>>Note that Venus (which is closer to the Sun than Earth is) has
>>miniscule magnetic field, most recent measurements put it at about
>>10^(-5) this of Earth. Yet, it has no problem maintaining a vast
>>atmosphere.
>
>Not to mention the fact that Earth's field goes null, or close to it,
>every time it changes polarity.
Which happened many times, yes.
> We and our atmosphere are still here.
Yep.
Mati Meron
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Date: 29 Apr 2007 20:38:43
From: Sam Wormley
Subject: Re: Astronomers Find First Earth-like Planet in Habitable Zone
|
whitely525@yahoo.co.uk wrote:
> On 29 Apr, 21:12, pau...@saaf.se (Paul Schlyter) wrote:
>> Why would the presence of a magnetic field be necessary for the
>> possibility of life on a planet?
>
> Protection from the solar wind/discharges which would otherwise
> strip away the atmosphere. Not much life can surivive in a plasma.
>
And what magnetic filed has Venus?
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Date: 29 Apr 2007 20:36:08
From: Sam Wormley
Subject: Re: Astronomers Find First Earth-like Planet in Habitable Zone
|
whitely525@yahoo.co.uk wrote:
> On 29 Apr, 21:12, pau...@saaf.se (Paul Schlyter) wrote:
>> In article <wU4Zh.7991$Dq6.2882@edtnps82>, Mick <M...@nospam.net> wrote:
>>> They don't even know if a magnetic field exists and never will know.
>> You should be careful when claiming something will "never" be known.
>> You might be wrong, you know. Which you of course really know - right?
>>
>>> So cut the "other life" baloney. At least for now.
>>> When they come up with a method of determining or infering magnetic
>>> fields present around distant planets,
>> When? Not if? Ok, when -- that means you're convinced this will happen
>> sooner or later. But above you claimed it never would happen - a
>> nice self-contradiction !!
>>
>>> then and ONLY then can w speak of possible life.
>> Why would the presence of a magnetic field be necessary for the
>> possibility of life on a planet?
>
> Protection from the solar wind/discharges which would otherwise
> strip away the atmosphere. Not much life can surivive in a plasma.
>
Not necessarily... factors include
o star's solar wind type and velocity
o planet's gravitation
o density and makeup of planet's atmosphere
o planet's volcanism
o etc.
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Date: 01 May 2007 19:56:32
From: Bruce Scott TOK
Subject: Re: Astronomers Find First Earth-like Planet in Habitable Zone
|
Sam W wrote:
[earth-type life criteria]
> Not necessarily... factors include
> o star's solar wind type and velocity
> o planet's gravitation
> o density and makeup of planet's atmosphere
> o planet's volcanism
> o etc.
James Lovelock was the one who pointed out the thing to look for was an
atmospheric composition suggesting gases well out of chemical equilibrium
(i.e., residence times much less than the age of the planet). Nitrogen
is stable. But oxygen is not... detect free oxygen by any reasonable
means and you have an excellent argument for the presence of life.
--
ciao,
Bruce
drift wave turbulence: http://www.rzg.mpg.de/~bds/
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Date: 29 Apr 2007 16:35:39
From: Supertech
Subject: Re: Astronomers Find First Earth-like Planet in Habitable Zone
|
"Sam Wormley" <swormley1@mchsi.com > wrote in message
news:46303209.1020204@mchsi.com...
> Astronomers Find First Earth-like Planet in Habitable Zone
> http://eso.org/outreach/press-rel/pr-2007/pr-22-07.html
>
> Astronomers have discovered the most Earth-like planet outside our
> Solar System to date, an exoplanet with a radius only 50% larger than
> the Earth and capable of having liquid water. Using the ESO 3.6-m
> telescope, a team of Swiss, French and Portuguese scientists discovered
> a super-Earth about 5 times the mass of the Earth that orbits a red
> dwarf, already known to harbour a Neptune-mass planet. The astronomers
> have also strong evidence for the presence of a third planet with a
> mass about 8 Earth masses.
>
> This exoplanet - as astronomers call planets around a star other than
> the Sun - is the smallest ever found up to now [1] and it completes a
> full orbit in 13 days. It is 14 times closer to its star than the Earth
> is from the Sun. However, given that its host star, the red dwarf
> Gliese 581 [2], is smaller and colder than the Sun - and thus less
> luminous - the planet nevertheless lies in the habitable zone, the
> region around a star where water could be liquid! The planet's name is
> Gliese 581 c.
5 times heavier mass than the earth and less luminous!!!!
Let's see how the living advanced form of life there will be like.
They will have small bodies because of the stronger gravity that they have
to endure and they will have larger eyes to see better in their darker
environment compared to the humans on the bright sun-lit earth.
Is this picture familiar?
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Date: 30 Apr 2007 01:58:19
From: Ben newsam
Subject: Re: Astronomers Find First Earth-like Planet in Habitable Zone
|
On Sun, 29 Apr 2007 16:35:39 GMT, "Supertech" <ejone2@sbcglobal.net >
wrote:
>"Sam Wormley" <swormley1@mchsi.com> wrote in message
>news:46303209.1020204@mchsi.com...
>> Gliese 581 c.
>
>5 times heavier mass than the earth and less luminous!!!!
>
>Let's see how the living advanced form of life there will be like.
>
>They will have small bodies because of the stronger gravity that they have
>to endure and they will have larger eyes to see better in their darker
>environment compared to the humans on the bright sun-lit earth.
>
>Is this picture familiar?
<Gasp > It's.... Jeff Relf!
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Date: 29 Apr 2007 13:23:55
From: Greg Neill
Subject: Re: Astronomers Find First Earth-like Planet in Habitable Zone
|
"Supertech" <ejone2@sbcglobal.net > wrote in message
news:vP3Zh.19367$JZ3.6139@newssvr13.news.prodigy.net...
>
> "Sam Wormley" <swormley1@mchsi.com> wrote in message
> news:46303209.1020204@mchsi.com...
> > Astronomers Find First Earth-like Planet in Habitable Zone
> > http://eso.org/outreach/press-rel/pr-2007/pr-22-07.html
> >
> > Astronomers have discovered the most Earth-like planet outside our
> > Solar System to date, an exoplanet with a radius only 50% larger than
> > the Earth and capable of having liquid water. Using the ESO 3.6-m
> > telescope, a team of Swiss, French and Portuguese scientists
discovered
> > a super-Earth about 5 times the mass of the Earth that orbits a red
> > dwarf, already known to harbour a Neptune-mass planet. The
astronomers
> > have also strong evidence for the presence of a third planet with a
> > mass about 8 Earth masses.
> >
> > This exoplanet - as astronomers call planets around a star other than
> > the Sun - is the smallest ever found up to now [1] and it completes a
> > full orbit in 13 days. It is 14 times closer to its star than the
Earth
> > is from the Sun. However, given that its host star, the red dwarf
> > Gliese 581 [2], is smaller and colder than the Sun - and thus less
> > luminous - the planet nevertheless lies in the habitable zone, the
> > region around a star where water could be liquid! The planet's name
is
> > Gliese 581 c.
>
>
> 5 times heavier mass than the earth and less luminous!!!!
>
> Let's see how the living advanced form of life there will be like.
>
> They will have small bodies because of the stronger gravity that they have
> to endure and they will have larger eyes to see better in their darker
> environment compared to the humans on the bright sun-lit earth.
Gravity will be about 2.2g. There's been enough variation in the
sizes of animal life on Earth (from the largest dinosaurs to fleas)
to make it difficult to say that life there must have small bodies.
Perhaps on average they will be smaller in size for terrestrial
life. Water dwelling life is another matter, as buoyancy will
mitigate the effects of increased gravity.
Gleise 581 may be less luminous than the Sun (about 0.013Lo), but
the planet is much closer to it than the Earth is to the Sun. The
ration is about 0.073. Together these factors would make the
illumination on the planet about 2.4X that on Earth. Of course
this would be mostly in the red-end of the spectrum.
>
> Is this picture familiar?
Not really.
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Date: 29 Apr 2007 17:49:16
From: Mick
Subject: Re: Astronomers Find First Earth-like Planet in Habitable Zone
|
They don't even know if a magnetic field exists and never will know.
So cut the "other life" baloney. At least for now.
When they come up with a method of determining or infering magnetic fields
present around distant
planets, then and ONLY then can we speak of possible life.
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Date: 29 Apr 2007 20:12:47
From: Paul Schlyter
Subject: Re: Astronomers Find First Earth-like Planet in Habitable Zone
|
In article <wU4Zh.7991$Dq6.2882@edtnps82 >, Mick <Mick@nospam.net> wrote:
> They don't even know if a magnetic field exists and never will know.
You should be careful when claiming something will "never" be known.
You might be wrong, you know. Which you of course really know - right?
> So cut the "other life" baloney. At least for now.
>
> When they come up with a method of determining or infering magnetic
> fields present around distant planets,
When? Not if? Ok, when -- that means you're convinced this will happen
sooner or later. But above you claimed it never would happen - a
nice self-contradiction !!
> then and ONLY then can w speak of possible life.
Why would the presence of a magnetic field be necessary for the
possibility of life on a planet?
--
----------------------------------------------------------------
Paul Schlyter, Grev Turegatan 40, SE-114 38 Stockholm, SWEDEN
e-mail: pausch at stockholm dot bostream dot se
WWW: http://stjarnhimlen.se/
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Date: 29 Apr 2007 19:01:20
From: Andrew Smallshaw
Subject: Re: Astronomers Find First Earth-like Planet in Habitable Zone
|
On 2007-04-29, Mick <Mick@nospam.net > wrote:
> They don't even know if a magnetic field exists and never will know.
> So cut the "other life" baloney. At least for now.
Why do you suppose a magnetic field is a requirement for life?
the Earth's magnetic field has been interrupted and/or reversed at
many points in its history. The last time was around 780,000 years
ago. It didn't cause the end of life on Earth.
> When they come up with a method of determining or infering magnetic fields
> present around distant
> planets, then and ONLY then can we speak of possible life.
Why? Of the four inner planets in our solar system, all have a
magnetic field of some description, although admittedly it only
has any appreciable strength on Mercury and Earth. So let's say
there is a 50% chance of a rocky planet having a magnetic field.
That isn't a long shot. If it was a million-to-one shot it would
be reasonable to say "Let's assume there isn't a field unless we
can prove otherwise", but at 50%, it's not. It isn't scientifically
valid to presume there isn't a field simply because we have no way
to observe it.
--
Andrew Smallshaw
andrews@sdf.lonestar.org
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Date: 29 Apr 2007 13:56:15
From: Greg Neill
Subject: Re: Astronomers Find First Earth-like Planet in Habitable Zone
|
"Mick" <Mick@nospam.net > wrote in message
news:wU4Zh.7991$Dq6.2882@edtnps82...
> They don't even know if a magnetic field exists and never will know.
How do you know they'll never know? Magnetic fields have been
detected in space thanks to their interaction with charged
particles. What would prevent dection of polarization imprints
on the light reflected from the planet?
> So cut the "other life" baloney. At least for now.
>
> When they come up with a method of determining or infering magnetic fields
> present around distant
> planets, then and ONLY then can we speak of possible life.
I think you're being a tad narrow minded. We can speak of
possible life anytime, provded we understand the caveats.
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Date: 27 Apr 2007 03:29:51
From: Chris.B
Subject: Re: Astronomers Find First Earth-like Planet in Habitable Zone
|
On Apr 27, 1:49 am, "alanmc95...@yahoo.com" <alanmc95...@yahoo.com >
wrote:
> > > This exoplanet - as astronomers call planets around a star other than
> > > the Sun - is the smallest ever found up to now [1] and it completes a
> > > full orbit in 13 days. It is 14 times closer to its star than the Earth
> > > is from the Sun. However, given that its host star, the red dwarf
> > > Gliese 581 [2], is smaller and colder than the Sun - and thus less
> > > luminous - the planet nevertheless lies in the habitable zone, the
> > > region around a star where water could be liquid!
>
> > I love astronomy. I just have to speculate wildly here...
>
> > Anybody know how old we think Gliese 581 is?
>
> Here's a link for you
>
> http://www.solstation.com/stars/gl581.htm
>
> "Gliese 581 is a cool and dim, main sequence red dwarf (M2.5 V). The
> star has almost a third (31 +/- 2 percent) of Sol's mass, possibly 38
> percent of its diameter (Pasinetti-Fracassini et al, 2001; and Johnson
> and Wright, 1983), and a bit more than one percent (around 0.013) of
> its bolometric luminosity (Bonfils et al, 2005, in pdf). The star
> appears to be between 36 to 62 percent as enriched as Sol in elements
> heavier than hydrogen (Bean et al, 2006; Ken Crosswell, 2006; and
> Bonfils, et al, 2005). Its kinematic characterisitcs, magnetic
> activity, and sub-Solar metallicity indicate that that Gliese 581 is
> at least two billion years old, possibly around 4.3 billion years old
> (Udry et al, 2007). Gliese 851 is a variable star with the designation
> "HO Librae" and NSV 7023."
>
> - A. McIntire
The most important question is: Does the red dwarf really look like it
does in the artist's impressions? :)
Surely it would have to be very cool indeed not to appear very much
brighter than this?
We wear goggles to braze and that's only somewhere around 900-1000C.
How dim and cool is "cool and dim"? Are the Glieseans doing solar
astronomy without their Raybans?
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Date: 26 Apr 2007 16:49:38
From: alanmc95210@yahoo.com
Subject: Re: Astronomers Find First Earth-like Planet in Habitable Zone
|
On Apr 26, 7:55 am, AustinMN <tacooper...@hotmail.com > wrote:
> On Apr 26, 12:00 am, Sam Wormley <sworml...@mchsi.com> wrote:
>
> > Astronomers Find First Earth-like Planet in Habitable Zone
> > http://eso.org/outreach/press-rel/pr-2007/pr-22-07.html
>
> > Astronomers have discovered the most Earth-like planet outside our
> > Solar System to date, an exoplanet with a radius only 50% larger than
> > the Earth and capable of having liquid water.
>
> <snip>
>
> > This exoplanet - as astronomers call planets around a star other than
> > the Sun - is the smallest ever found up to now [1] and it completes a
> > full orbit in 13 days. It is 14 times closer to its star than the Earth
> > is from the Sun. However, given that its host star, the red dwarf
> > Gliese 581 [2], is smaller and colder than the Sun - and thus less
> > luminous - the planet nevertheless lies in the habitable zone, the
> > region around a star where water could be liquid!
>
> I love astronomy. I just have to speculate wildly here...
>
> Anybody know how old we think Gliese 581 is?
Here's a link for you
http://www.solstation.com/stars/gl581.htm
"Gliese 581 is a cool and dim, main sequence red dwarf (M2.5 V). The
star has almost a third (31 +/- 2 percent) of Sol's mass, possibly 38
percent of its diameter (Pasinetti-Fracassini et al, 2001; and Johnson
and Wright, 1983), and a bit more than one percent (around 0.013) of
its bolometric luminosity (Bonfils et al, 2005, in pdf). The star
appears to be between 36 to 62 percent as enriched as Sol in elements
heavier than hydrogen (Bean et al, 2006; Ken Crosswell, 2006; and
Bonfils, et al, 2005). Its kinematic characterisitcs, magnetic
activity, and sub-Solar metallicity indicate that that Gliese 581 is
at least two billion years old, possibly around 4.3 billion years old
(Udry et al, 2007). Gliese 851 is a variable star with the designation
"HO Librae" and NSV 7023."
- A. McIntire
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Date: 26 Apr 2007 18:35:39
From: Dionysus
Subject: Re: Astronomers Find First Earth-like Planet in Habitable Zone
|
"Sam Wormley" <swormley1@mchsi.com > wrote in message
news:46303209.1020204@mchsi.com...
> Astronomers Find First Earth-like Planet in Habitable Zone
> http://eso.org/outreach/press-rel/pr-2007/pr-22-07.html
>
> Astronomers have discovered the most Earth-like planet outside our
> Solar System to date, an exoplanet with a radius only 50% larger than
> the Earth and capable of having liquid water. Using the ESO 3.6-m
> telescope, a team of Swiss, French and Portuguese scientists discovered
> a super-Earth about 5 times the mass of the Earth that orbits a red
> dwarf, already known to harbour a Neptune-mass planet. The astronomers
> have also strong evidence for the presence of a third planet with a
> mass about 8 Earth masses.
You're about 4 days late on this. The world already knows.
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Date: 26 Apr 2007 19:19:02
From: Sam Wormley
Subject: Re: Astronomers Find First Earth-like Planet in Habitable Zone
|
Dionysus wrote:
> "Sam Wormley" <swormley1@mchsi.com> wrote in message
> news:46303209.1020204@mchsi.com...
>> Astronomers Find First Earth-like Planet in Habitable Zone
>> http://eso.org/outreach/press-rel/pr-2007/pr-22-07.html
>>
>> Astronomers have discovered the most Earth-like planet outside our
>> Solar System to date, an exoplanet with a radius only 50% larger than
>> the Earth and capable of having liquid water. Using the ESO 3.6-m
>> telescope, a team of Swiss, French and Portuguese scientists discovered
>> a super-Earth about 5 times the mass of the Earth that orbits a red
>> dwarf, already known to harbour a Neptune-mass planet. The astronomers
>> have also strong evidence for the presence of a third planet with a
>> mass about 8 Earth masses.
>
>
> You're about 4 days late on this. The world already knows.
>
>
We're about 100 years late on Einstein's relativity... :-)
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Date: 26 Apr 2007 07:55:16
From: AustinMN
Subject: Re: Astronomers Find First Earth-like Planet in Habitable Zone
|
On Apr 26, 12:00 am, Sam Wormley <sworml...@mchsi.com > wrote:
> Astronomers Find First Earth-like Planet in Habitable Zone
> http://eso.org/outreach/press-rel/pr-2007/pr-22-07.html
>
> Astronomers have discovered the most Earth-like planet outside our
> Solar System to date, an exoplanet with a radius only 50% larger than
> the Earth and capable of having liquid water.
<snip >
> This exoplanet - as astronomers call planets around a star other than
> the Sun - is the smallest ever found up to now [1] and it completes a
> full orbit in 13 days. It is 14 times closer to its star than the Earth
> is from the Sun. However, given that its host star, the red dwarf
> Gliese 581 [2], is smaller and colder than the Sun - and thus less
> luminous - the planet nevertheless lies in the habitable zone, the
> region around a star where water could be liquid!
I love astronomy. I just have to speculate wildly here...
Anybody know how old we think Gliese 581 is? My recollection is that
red dwarf stars can live for 25-50 billion years, much longer than sun-
like stars. Gliese 581 could be twice or more the age of the sun. If
life is as common as some like to think, there may have been time for
them to become far more advanced than us - or time enough to grossly
overpopulate, or even pollute themselves to death. There may even
have been enough time for things to start over, and for a radically
new intelligent species to evolve...
I would expect a planet that close to its star would be rotationally
locked, so that the same side of the planet always faced the star.
That could create some interesting climate issues...how would life
deal with a planet where water was perpetually migrating to the dark
side, where it would freeze solid -- possibly forever? Would there be
active ice mining, or would there be perpetual glaciers moving from
the dark side to the light side, where they melted in the "twilight
zone?"
Perhaps the migration of water from the warm side to the cold causes
the planet to become gravitationally "unbalanced," so that it starts
to slowly roll over, rotating the ice side towards the star, causing
massive global flooding every few hundred thousand years. Or perhaps
this migration of water forces the planet to continually rotate
(however slowly) so that there is no truly permanent ice.
Perhaps it has a much higher percentage of water than earth, with 100%
of the surface covered. Although there may be "surface creatures,"
there would be no "land" creatures. Intelligent species would be
water species, and for them travel in "space" means venturing into the
atmosphere. After a few forays into the atmosphere, most would feel
it was just too expensive and too dangerous. There would be
conspiracy theories about them never having actually gone to the
surface, and that it was all just faked at area 5.1...
If this star and planet are much older than earth, then they formed at
a time when there were fewer heavy elements (i.e. not hydrogen or
helium). Where would those elements then come from? Would there be
enough solar wind and solar radiation from a red dwarf at that
distance to prevent galactic dust from reaching the planet?
Imagine a society on a world where the sun was almost stationary in
the sky, with just a few small wobbles. Those living on the "light
side" would have never seen the "sun" rise or set, nor ever seen a
star in the sky. Those on the "dark side" would never have seen the
sun, but would witness a perpetual rising and setting of stars. The
cold on the dark side could be unbearable beyond the "twilight zone."
Food would consist almost exclusively of things coming from the
"bright side."
Each might consider the other side to be evil...
Austin (just begining to speculate)
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Date: 26 Apr 2007 06:31:13
From: Starlord
Subject: Re: Astronomers Find First Earth-like Planet in Habitable Zone
|
And all I've seen on the t.v. is the number of miles away from us, what is
that in Light years?
--
There are those who believe that life here, began out there, far across the
universe, with tribes of humans, who may have been the forefathers of the
Egyptians, or the Toltecs, or the Mayans. Some believe that they may yet be
brothers of man, who even now fight to survive, somewhere beyond the
heavens.
The Lone Sidewalk Astronomer of Rosamond
Telescope Buyers FAQ
http://home.inreach.com/starlord
Sidewalk Astronomy
www.sidewalkastronomy.info
The Church of Eternity
http://home.inreach.com/starlord/church/Eternity.html
AD World
http://www.adworld.netfirms.com/
"Sam Wormley" <swormley1@mchsi.com > wrote in message
news:46303209.1020204@mchsi.com...
> Astronomers Find First Earth-like Planet in Habitable Zone
> http://eso.org/outreach/press-rel/pr-2007/pr-22-07.html
>
> Astronomers have discovered the most Earth-like planet outside our
> Solar System to date,
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Date: 26 Apr 2007 10:45:24
From: Dave Jessie
Subject: Re: Astronomers Find First Earth-like Planet in Habitable Zone
|
Starlord wrote:
news:w7OdnRrSC96pMK3bnZ2dnUVZ_oqmnZ2d@inreach.com...
> And all I've seen on the t.v. is the number of miles away from us, what is
> that in Light years?
20.5 ly
Just do a Google for "Gliese 581"
Obviosly, we won't be going there any time soon.
Clear Dark Steady Skies,
Dave Jessie
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Date: 26 Apr 2007 08:26:36
From: Starlord
Subject: Re: Astronomers Find First Earth-like Planet in Habitable Zone
|
Thanks for cleaing that up for me as I had missed a day this week totaly due
to the meds kicking in and me just missing one whole day.
--
There are those who believe that life here, began out there, far across the
universe, with tribes of humans, who may have been the forefathers of the
Egyptians, or the Toltecs, or the Mayans. Some believe that they may yet be
brothers of man, who even now fight to survive, somewhere beyond the
heavens.
The Lone Sidewalk Astronomer of Rosamond
Telescope Buyers FAQ
http://home.inreach.com/starlord
Sidewalk Astronomy
www.sidewalkastronomy.info
The Church of Eternity
http://home.inreach.com/starlord/church/Eternity.html
AD World
http://www.adworld.netfirms.com/
"Dave Jessie" <DJesSHOESsie@neo.rr.com > wrote in message
news:4630bb08$0$27097$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
> Starlord wrote:
> news:w7OdnRrSC96pMK3bnZ2dnUVZ_oqmnZ2d@inreach.com...
>> And all I've seen on the t.v. is the number of miles away from us, what
>> is that in Light years?
>
> 20.5 ly
>
> Just do a Google for "Gliese 581"
>
> Obviosly, we won't be going there any time soon.
>
> Clear Dark Steady Skies,
> Dave Jessie
>
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Date: 26 Apr 2007 09:47:45
From: Rick Evans
Subject: Re: Astronomers Find First Earth-like Planet in Habitable Zone
|
"Sam Wormley" <swormley1@mchsi.com > wrote in message
news:46303209.1020204@mchsi.com...
> Astronomers Find First Earth-like Planet in Habitable Zone
> http://eso.org/outreach/press-rel/pr-2007/pr-22-07.html
>
> Astronomers have discovered the most Earth-like planet
> outside our
> Solar System to date, an exoplanet with a radius only 50%
> larger than
> the Earth and capable of having liquid water.
AMAZING ..
This story reminds me of a local TV commercial
where the wife takes a chain saw to the family furniture.
The husband is then shown looking at the Publishers
Clearing House like letter and saying "It says you
might be a winner.". To which she shouts WHAT! and
he says, "Might ... be a winner!"
The only thing Earth like about this planet is that
its mass is within an order of magnitude as Earth,
ya know like the Moon and Venus, and that it orbits
withing the "habitable zone" ... like the Moon
and Venus.
--
Rick Evans
---------------------------------------------------------------
Lon -71° 04' 35.3"
Lat +42° 11' 06.7"
---------------------------------------------------------------
Webcam Astroimaging
http://mysite.verizon.net/hiltonevans33050/astroimaging/astroimaging.htm
---------------------------------------------------------------
ChemPen Chemical Structure Software
http://www.chempensoftware.com
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Date: 26 Apr 2007 15:14:47
From: Chris L Peterson
Subject: Re: Astronomers Find First Earth-like Planet in Habitable Zone
|
On Thu, 26 Apr 2007 09:47:45 GMT, "Rick Evans"
<h1ELt0nevansNOSPAM@ver1z0n.net > wrote:
> The only thing Earth like about this planet is that
> its mass is within an order of magnitude as Earth,
> ya know like the Moon and Venus, and that it orbits
> withing the "habitable zone" ... like the Moon
> and Venus.
Ignoring the headline, the article actually says "the most Earth-like"
planet discovered so far. Certainly, Earth, Venus, Mars (and in a sense,
the Moon) are all in the same planetary category. The important result
here is that the planet is small, terrestrial, and lies in the habitable
zone of a star, meaning that it has the potential to support life as we
know it. It won't be long before we have the ability to examine the
spectral signatures of extrasolar planets, and it is just such planets
as this that are the obvious ones to study.
_________________________________________________
Chris L Peterson
Cloudbait Observatory
http://www.cloudbait.com
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