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Main
Date: 30 Jul 2007 05:42:31
From: William J. Shaheen
Subject: Astronomers Falling Through the Cracks
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I found the following message in a related YaHoo group and have the
author's permission to pass it along: (It's hard to believe this is
still happening in this day and age.)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Remember reading about the tragic story of Robert Burnham, Jr.
(1931-1993) who authored the monumental three-volume Burnham's
Celestial Handbook? Had there been a dark sky community that reached
out to him in his hour of need and offered him employment and
friendship, he might still be with us.
A similar situation may be in the making with North Dakota astronomer
Jay Brausch. You may be familiar with Jay's wonderful aurora
photographs in Sky & Telescope, Astronomy, and elsewhere. Jay has
been accurately and dutifully recording aurorae, sunspots, noctilucent
clouds, meteors, and other sky phenomena for over 25 years. He was
profiled in an article in the August 2004 issue of S&T entitled, "Jay
Brausch: Observer Extraordinaire." See also
http://www.lpod.org/ots/?page_id=1325
Jay lives in Glen Ullin, North Dakota, a very small town in
west-central North Dakota which rarely has an employment opportunity
of any kind, and harbors an abundance of close-minded, conservative,
judgmental individuals. For years, Jay has been working odd jobs,
taking care of his aging parents, and making his daily observations.
Within the last few months, both of his parents have passed away, and
now he is completely alone with no more than a morning paper route to
support him.
It is a sad commentary on our society that a 48-year-old man who is
one of the world's greatest observers and who graduated from college
summa cum laude is not given the opportunity to work full time with
benefits, just because due to circumstances he has been living in a
rural area and has had little experience. Even though he would prefer
to work in astronomy (wouldn't we all), he is perfectly willing to
work at any reasonable job that gives him a one-way ticket out of that
town and to a better life.
Can anyone help him? If so, please contact me off list and I'll put
you in contact with Jay. I really hope we can help him.
Thanks much,
David Oesper
Dodgeville, Wisconsin
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dave can be reached as DaveDarkSky at that well known American company
that enables you to be On Line. Or, respond to me and I'll contact
Dave.
Regards,
Bill Shaheen
Gold Canyon, AZ
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Date: 31 Jul 2007 05:49:22
From: William J. Shaheen
Subject: Re: Astronomers Falling Through the Cracks
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On Jul 31, 5:08 am, jsav...@excxn.aNOSPAMb.cdn.invalid (John Savard)
wrote:
> On Tue, 31 Jul 2007 02:57:44 -0000, Skywise <i...@oblivion.nothing.com>
> wrote, in part:
>
> >Most news providers now ignore cancel
> >requests due to the enormous abuse of that system in the past.
>
> I thought they just ignored third-party cancels now.
>
> John Savardhttp://www.quadibloc.com/index.html
Yes, note that under More Options, the Author has a Remove coption. I
used it on the original post and ask that everyone does te same on
their respective replies. This person has contacted me directly and
is willing to travel and is just looking for some connections for a
teaching position. I will direct him to some local resources to do
just that.
Thank you.
Bill
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Date: 31 Jul 2007 13:00:17
From: Bert Hyman
Subject: Re: Astronomers Falling Through the Cracks
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WJShaheen@aol.com (William J. Shaheen) wrote in
news:1185886162.238726.225280@z28g2000prd.googlegroups.com:
> On Jul 31, 5:08 am, jsav...@excxn.aNOSPAMb.cdn.invalid (John
> Savard) wrote:
>> On Tue, 31 Jul 2007 02:57:44 -0000, Skywise
>> <i...@oblivion.nothing.com> wrote, in part:
>>
>> >Most news providers now ignore cancel
>> >requests due to the enormous abuse of that system in the past.
>>
>> I thought they just ignored third-party cancels now.
>>
>> John Savardhttp://www.quadibloc.com/index.html
>
> Yes, note that under More Options, the Author has a Remove coption.
That sounds suspiciously like a Google-ism.
I've issued a cancel message for my article in the thread, for all
the good it will do (my own server ignores cancels).
--
Bert Hyman
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Date: 31 Jul 2007 08:03:03
From:
Subject: Re: Astronomers Falling Through the Cracks
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Let's review, shall we? He lives in a very small town which has
no employment opportunities. He refuses to move to where there
are abundant jobs. And for some reason this is our problem?
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Date: 31 Jul 2007 11:59:54
From: John Savard
Subject: Re: Astronomers Falling Through the Cracks
|
On Tue, 31 Jul 2007 08:03:03 +0000, invalid@example.net wrote, in part:
>Let's review, shall we? He lives in a very small town which has
>no employment opportunities. He refuses to move to where there
>are abundant jobs. And for some reason this is our problem?
The post said:
>Even though he would prefer
>to work in astronomy (wouldn't we all), he is perfectly willing to
>work at any reasonable job that gives him a one-way ticket out of that
>town and to a better life.
So it isn't true he isn't willing to move out.
John Savard
http://www.quadibloc.com/index.html
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Date: 31 Jul 2007 14:50:20
From:
Subject: Re: Astronomers Falling Through the Cracks
|
John Savard wrote:
>invalid@example.net wrote, in part:
>
>>Let's review, shall we? He lives in a very small town which has
>>no employment opportunities. He refuses to move to where there
>>are abundant jobs. And for some reason this is our problem?
>
>The post said:
>
>>Even though he would prefer
>>to work in astronomy (wouldn't we all), he is perfectly willing to
>>work at any reasonable job that gives him a one-way ticket out of that
>>town and to a better life.
>
>So it isn't true he isn't willing to move out.
Ah. My mistake. There are a lot of places in this country looking
for someone to be a fast-food cook or cashier, and which have a
path up to night manager and then manager -- the existing managers
get assigned to newly opening stores. I see help wanted signs in
fast-food windows all over the country.
I also wonder what would happen if he sent a hand-written letter
to every observatory on the planet saying that he will do anything
-- janitor, night watchman -- just to be around astronomers and
possibly advance to tube polisher or bearing greaser some day.
It wouldn't cost much to try.
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Date: 30 Jul 2007 23:09:27
From: Borked Pseudo Mailed
Subject: Re: Astronomers Falling Through the Cracks
|
In article <1185799351.714556.272160@e16g2000pri.googlegroups.com >,
"William J. Shaheen" <WJShaheen@aol.com > wrote:
>I found the following message in a related YaHoo group and have the
>author's permission to pass it along: (It's hard to believe this is
>still happening in this day and age.)
>
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>-------------------------------------------------------
>
>Remember reading about the tragic story of Robert Burnham, Jr.
>(1931-1993) who authored the monumental three-volume Burnham's
>Celestial Handbook? Had there been a dark sky community that reached
>out to him in his hour of need and offered him employment and
>friendship, he might still be with us.
>
>A similar situation may be in the making with North Dakota astronomer
>Jay Brausch. You may be familiar with Jay's wonderful aurora
>photographs in Sky & Telescope, Astronomy, and elsewhere. Jay has
>been accurately and dutifully recording aurorae, sunspots, noctilucent
>clouds, meteors, and other sky phenomena for over 25 years. He was
>profiled in an article in the August 2004 issue of S&T entitled, "Jay
>Brausch: Observer Extraordinaire." See also
>
>http://www.lpod.org/ots/?page_id=1325
>
>Jay lives in Glen Ullin, North Dakota, a very small town in
>west-central North Dakota which rarely has an employment opportunity
>of any kind, and harbors an abundance of close-minded, conservative,
>judgmental individuals. For years, Jay has been working odd jobs,
>taking care of his aging parents, and making his daily observations.
>Within the last few months, both of his parents have passed away, and
>now he is completely alone with no more than a morning paper route to
>support him.
>
>It is a sad commentary on our society that a 48-year-old man who is
>one of the world's greatest observers and who graduated from college
>summa cum laude is not given the opportunity to work full time with
>benefits, just because due to circumstances he has been living in a
>rural area and has had little experience. Even though he would prefer
>to work in astronomy (wouldn't we all), he is perfectly willing to
>work at any reasonable job that gives him a one-way ticket out of that
>town and to a better life.
>
>Can anyone help him? If so, please contact me off list and I'll put
>you in contact with Jay. I really hope we can help him.
>
>Thanks much,
>
>David Oesper
>Dodgeville, Wisconsin
>
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>-----------------------------------
>
>Dave can be reached as DaveDarkSky at that well known American company
>that enables you to be On Line. Or, respond to me and I'll contact
>Dave.
>
>Regards,
>
>Bill Shaheen
>Gold Canyon, AZ
is he a goer
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Date: 30 Jul 2007 18:48:08
From: William J. Shaheen
Subject: Re: Astronomers Falling Through the Cracks
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On Jul 30, 2:37 pm, "William J. Shaheen" <WJShah...@aol.com > wrote:
> On Jul 30, 7:40 am, Bert Hyman <b...@iphouse.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > WJShah...@aol.com (William J. Shaheen) wrote innews:1185799351.714556.272160@e16g2000pri.googlegroups.com:
>
> > > I found the following message in a related YaHoo group and have the
> > > author's permission to pass it along:
> > > ...
> > > Jay lives in Glen Ullin, North Dakota, a very small town in
> > > west-central North Dakota which rarely has an employment
> > > opportunity of any kind, and harbors an abundance of close-minded,
> > > conservative, judgmental individuals.
>
> > Hmmm... While you might have had the permission of the person who
> > made the original Yahoo post, did you talk to the subject of the
> > message to see if he was happy with this sort of thing being given
> > even wider distribution?
>
> > It certainly won't endear him to his neighbors and probably won't
> > open up many doors for future employment.
>
> > --
> > Bert Hyman
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Date: 31 Jul 2007 02:57:44
From: Skywise
Subject: Re: Astronomers Falling Through the Cracks
|
"William J. Shaheen" <WJShaheen@aol.com > wrote in
news:1185846488.073328.163980@j4g2000prf.googlegroups.com:
<Snipola >
> George and Bert - After giving this some thought and further review, I
> agree this entire thread is inappropriate. I have removed the
> original and ask that you do likewise.
A word of advise about usenet, once it's posted, it's like
piss in the ocean. Most news providers now ignore cancel
requests due to the enormous abuse of that system in the past.
Therefore your post will not be deleted.
Just an FYI for future benefit.
Brian
--
http://www.skywise711.com - Lasers, Seismology, Astronomy, Skepticism
Seismic FAQ: http://www.skywise711.com/SeismicFAQ/SeismicFAQ.html
Quake "predictions": http://www.skywise711.com/quakes/EQDB/index.html
Sed quis custodiet ipsos Custodes?
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Date: 31 Jul 2007 12:08:35
From: John Savard
Subject: Re: Astronomers Falling Through the Cracks
|
On Tue, 31 Jul 2007 02:57:44 -0000, Skywise <into@oblivion.nothing.com >
wrote, in part:
>Most news providers now ignore cancel
>requests due to the enormous abuse of that system in the past.
I thought they just ignored third-party cancels now.
John Savard
http://www.quadibloc.com/index.html
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Date: 31 Jul 2007 20:45:58
From: Guy Macon
Subject: Re: Astronomers Falling Through the Cracks
|
John Savard wrote:
Skywise wrote:
>
>>Most news providers now ignore cancel
>>requests due to the enormous abuse of that system in the past.
>
>I thought they just ignored third-party cancels now.
It has been my experience that the large ISPs don't, but the
small ones (schools, small town local ISPs) often do.
--
Guy Macon
<http://www.guymacon.com/ >
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Date: 31 Jul 2007 12:44:04
From: Bert Hyman
Subject: Re: Astronomers Falling Through the Cracks
|
jsavard@excxn.aNOSPAMb.cdn.invalid (John Savard) wrote in
news:46af262e.926231@news.aioe.org:
> On Tue, 31 Jul 2007 02:57:44 -0000, Skywise
> <into@oblivion.nothing.com> wrote, in part:
>
>>Most news providers now ignore cancel
>>requests due to the enormous abuse of that system in the past.
>
> I thought they just ignored third-party cancels now.
There's no reliable way to tell; cancels are easy to forge.
--
Bert Hyman
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Date: 30 Jul 2007 14:37:45
From: William J. Shaheen
Subject: Re: Astronomers Falling Through the Cracks
|
On Jul 30, 7:40 am, Bert Hyman <b...@iphouse.com > wrote:
> WJShah...@aol.com (William J. Shaheen) wrote innews:1185799351.714556.272160@e16g2000pri.googlegroups.com:
>
> > I found the following message in a related YaHoo group and have the
> > author's permission to pass it along:
> > ...
> > Jay lives in Glen Ullin, North Dakota, a very small town in
> > west-central North Dakota which rarely has an employment
> > opportunity of any kind, and harbors an abundance of close-minded,
> > conservative, judgmental individuals.
>
> Hmmm... While you might have had the permission of the person who
> made the original Yahoo post, did you talk to the subject of the
> message to see if he was happy with this sort of thing being given
> even wider distribution?
>
> It certainly won't endear him to his neighbors and probably won't
> open up many doors for future employment.
>
> --
> Bert Hyman
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Date: 30 Jul 2007 14:40:23
From: Bert Hyman
Subject: Re: Astronomers Falling Through the Cracks
|
WJShaheen@aol.com (William J. Shaheen) wrote in
news:1185799351.714556.272160@e16g2000pri.googlegroups.com:
> I found the following message in a related YaHoo group and have the
> author's permission to pass it along:
> ...
> Jay lives in Glen Ullin, North Dakota, a very small town in
> west-central North Dakota which rarely has an employment
> opportunity of any kind, and harbors an abundance of close-minded,
> conservative, judgmental individuals.
Hmmm... While you might have had the permission of the person who
made the original Yahoo post, did you talk to the subject of the
message to see if he was happy with this sort of thing being given
even wider distribution?
It certainly won't endear him to his neighbors and probably won't
open up many doors for future employment.
--
Bert Hyman
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Date: 30 Jul 2007 10:30:37
From: George
Subject: Re: Astronomers Falling Through the Cracks
|
>
> Jay lives in Glen Ullin, North Dakota, a very small town in
> west-central North Dakota which rarely has an employment opportunity
> of any kind, and harbors an abundance of close-minded, conservative,
> judgmental individuals. For years, Jay has been working odd jobs,
> taking care of his aging parents, and making his daily observations.
> Within the last few months, both of his parents have passed away, and
> now he is completely alone with no more than a morning paper route to
> support him.
>
I take issue that ND conservatives are close minded. I suspect you are
a liberal who expects others (especially government) to solve problems.
Why don't you take your savings and give it to him? Or offer him a job.
Liberal politians have answers for everything, will promise everything
but mostly get others to pay for their empty promises.
Jay appears to be a hard working person who does not seek welfare. I
would do the same. He can always move to seek better work but may
prefer to stay where he is.
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Date: 31 Jul 2007 12:07:46
From: John Savard
Subject: Re: Astronomers Falling Through the Cracks
|
On Mon, 30 Jul 2007 10:30:37 -0400, George <georgezweistein@gmail.com >
wrote, in part:
>I take issue that ND conservatives are close minded. I suspect you are
>a liberal who expects others (especially government) to solve problems.
And sometimes the government should solve problems.
Because people don't always have the resources to solve their own
problems themselves.
And there are other cases:
Plants to produce motor fuel from coal can be built. But they cost
money, and their product would be still higher in price than prices at
which oil *could* be made and sold at a more modest profit than at
present. So OPEC could undercut them, preventing them from selling a
drop of fuel.
But everyone would benefit from the drop in oil prices that would cause.
So while a private investor couldn't recoup his investment in such a
plant, it would be entirely rational for the government to use our tax
money to build one, since we would all reap the benefits.
Sure, there are lots of cases where the government should just get out
of the way.
If the Iraqi army can't keep its ranks from being infiltrated by
terrorists, and can't safely recruit, not all the Shia militias are
interested in killing innocent Sunnis, nor all the Sunni militias in
killing innocent Shias. The very militias that accepted our invitation
to disarm would have been the best organizations, able to police their
ranks, to help us fight terrorism there.
Many American cities have passed gun control laws, because they're
afraid of the drug-related violence among blacks. But that has meant
that the ordinary black people in the slums can't band together to drive
the drug lords out - given that the police hardly dare venture into the
slums, the people there have little protection against crime.
John Savard
http://www.quadibloc.com/index.html
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Date: 01 Aug 2007 03:54:05
From: Skywise
Subject: Re: Astronomers Falling Through the Cracks
|
jsavard@excxn.aNOSPAMb.cdn.invalid (John Savard) wrote in
news:46af245e.462636@news.aioe.org:
<Snipola >
> And sometimes the government should solve problems.
<Snipola >
Sed quis custodiet ipsos Custodes?
Brian
--
http://www.skywise711.com - Lasers, Seismology, Astronomy, Skepticism
Seismic FAQ: http://www.skywise711.com/SeismicFAQ/SeismicFAQ.html
Quake "predictions": http://www.skywise711.com/quakes/EQDB/index.html
Sed quis custodiet ipsos Custodes?
|
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Date: 02 Aug 2007 00:06:49
From: John Savard
Subject: Re: Astronomers Falling Through the Cracks
|
On Wed, 01 Aug 2007 03:54:05 -0000, Skywise <into@oblivion.nothing.com >
wrote, in part:
>jsavard@excxn.aNOSPAMb.cdn.invalid (John Savard) wrote in
>news:46af245e.462636@news.aioe.org:
><Snipola>
>> And sometimes the government should solve problems.
><Snipola>
>Sed quis custodiet ipsos Custodes?
The electorate, and the press. A government doesn't cease to be
democratic when it tries to solve the problems the electorate wants it
to.
John Savard
http://www.quadibloc.com/index.html
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Date: 02 Aug 2007 03:49:30
From: Skywise
Subject: Re: Astronomers Falling Through the Cracks
|
jsavard@excxn.aNOSPAMb.cdn.invalid (John Savard) wrote in
news:46b11fe2.434327@news.aioe.org:
> On Wed, 01 Aug 2007 03:54:05 -0000, Skywise <into@oblivion.nothing.com>
> wrote, in part:
>>jsavard@excxn.aNOSPAMb.cdn.invalid (John Savard) wrote in
>>news:46af245e.462636@news.aioe.org:
>
>><Snipola>
>>> And sometimes the government should solve problems.
>><Snipola>
>
>>Sed quis custodiet ipsos Custodes?
>
> The electorate, and the press. A government doesn't cease to be
> democratic when it tries to solve the problems the electorate wants it
> to.
Ahhh...the apathetic electorate and the agenda driven media.
Brian
--
http://www.skywise711.com - Lasers, Seismology, Astronomy, Skepticism
Seismic FAQ: http://www.skywise711.com/SeismicFAQ/SeismicFAQ.html
Quake "predictions": http://www.skywise711.com/quakes/EQDB/index.html
Sed quis custodiet ipsos Custodes?
|
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Date: 31 Jul 2007 09:10:50
From: lal_truckee
Subject: Re: Astronomers Falling Through the Cracks
|
John Savard wrote:
>
>
> And there are other cases:
>
> Plants to produce motor fuel from coal can be built. But they cost
> money, and their product would be still higher in price than prices at
> which oil *could* be made and sold at a more modest profit than at
> present. So OPEC could undercut them, preventing them from selling a
> drop of fuel.
South Africa has built and does use such plants. No problems.
The technology was proven and utilized by the Nazis during the War.
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