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Main
Date: 26 Aug 2007 00:28:23
From:
Subject: A *real* observation report
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I know this is going to upset some people. But remember, this is an
unmoderated forum here so I will speak my mind. I won't be the first
and I certainly won't be the last to stray into taboo OT.
The following was posted today in Moderated sci.astro.amateur by a
fine and well-known amateur:
FYI, I installed wxAstroCapture software available for download from
<http://arnholm.org/astro/software/wxAstroCapture/ > on my notebook
with MS Vista and it works great - in fact it works better than any
capture program I have tried.
Here is my reply to that individual:
Well, let me step up to the plate and say that is wonderful news,
Jeff. Others would be stepping up to the plate to say the same thing
I am sure, but for some reason they seem to have forgotten where our
plate is. Several of our members, who have posted and replied here in
the past, are quite active in sci.astro.amateur now, while not coming
back here even to read the forum. Seems real strange to me. One of
our previously active topic starters and posters contributed a very
nice post today to s.a.a. only to be told to "dream on. . .fuc
nuts" (sic) by a resident *****. Why on earth anyone would tolerate
that stuff escapes me. It is possible that some have been swimming
and drinking from the cesspool that s.a.a. has become so long now that
they are used to the smell and taste of ****. I think it is more
likely though that some continue to post there and not here because
they are seeking and need the attention -- and perhaps a few ego
stroking responses -- that one or more of the remaining "good" people
there MAY offer.
So thanks to the few that continue to be active here. Perhaps at some
point, the others who register and never return (for months) or post
once or twice never to return, will sooner or later have more pride
than to needlessly take the abuse being shelved on them at s.a.a.
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Date: 31 Aug 2007 00:25:15
From: ko57
Subject: Re: A *real* observation report
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On Aug 29, 7:02 pm, Margo Schulter wrote:
> Hi, Kerry, and please let me lend you a bit of encouragement on M27.
M27 is precisely the kind of object where a filter like
> your Orion Ultrablock or a Lumicon UHC can make a _dramatic_ difference.
> I hope that that is what happens for you, and much look forward to
> reading about how it goes.
I spotted it-my quest is over, but I'll keep an eye on M27, try to
discern the core better on darker nights. You were right in your
comment about the filters as far as my skies go. Do you use them? It
was very neat, always a thrill on the "first sights" (about
time...went back to the thread and mentioned my episode).
> By the way, my own "challenge object" on which I'm focusing for the
> next new Moon is NGC 253, the beautiful Silver Coin Galaxy in Sculptor,
> If your location in Louisiana...view of this galaxy.
> [...]
I'll look that up and keep an eye out for it-good tip. I need to keep
a better log of objects I've seen, I've used a small recorder, then
wrote notes later. A Palm Pilot is good for this-portable.
> It's interesting that we have almost identical telescopes.
That's true-same size. Where did you get yours? I'm thinking from
Canada? I'm sure it is a great scope, the dobs are easy to use. The
XT4.5 is very grab & go for me, the f/8 focal length gives me sharp
contrasty views even with the smaller aperture. I need to get out
with the XT8 more, the views are really nice, and it will get to see
more of Jupiter before it disappears. I wish I could keep it in the
garage but with our humidity, all scopes stay inside. Nice, safe and
dry.
I had bought a black piece of material a couple of years ago, wanted
to try that for something like Orion's Light's Out Canopy, I have it
picked up somewhere but will get it. Someone mentioned the Light's
Out Canopy helps keep the mosquitos away -GOOD!- It can only help,
heck I use the trees in the yard to block out the spotlights, but that
would do well. I have a black wool overcoat, I've draped it over
myself during winter-it helps, but I'll get that material out. I
think it was either felt or corduroy. If it's too light, I'll find
something heavier or just get Orion's canopy.
Clear skies,
Kerry O
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Date: 31 Aug 2007 17:13:39
From: Margo Schulter
Subject: Re: A *real* observation report
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ko57 <kowen@mobiletel.com > wrote:
> I spotted it-my quest is over, but I'll keep an eye on M27, try to
> discern the core better on darker nights. You were right in your
> comment about the filters as far as my skies go. Do you use them? It
> was very neat, always a thrill on the "first sights" (about
> time...went back to the thread and mentioned my episode).
Hi, Kerry, and please let me say how much fun it is to join in your
celebration. As promised in my quick congratulations which I posted
to the other thread, I'll try now to respond to some of your ideas
and questions.
Your continuing encounter with M27 lends excitement to my own
observing, and this exchange of reports is one of the best things
about s.a.a.
As to filters, I have some, and using them is one of the next items
on my agenda. It's been mainly a question of getting a bit of
confidence that I can handle the sheer mechanics without scratching
a filter, for example, before I've figured out what I'm doing.
Now that I've broken the "2-inch eyepiece barrier" with a first
light for a 30mm Garrett Optical eyepiece that I'm very delighted
with, the filters should come next.
Your experience with M27 certainly provides a good example. My
question for NGC 253 should provide a nice opportunity for using
my Astronomik CLS filter (an acronym for "City Light Suppression,"
if I'm right). This is basically similar to your Lumicon Deep
Sky. It would be a neat demonstration of this filter if it
improved my view of the galaxy -- and an even more dramatic one
if I located the right spot, couldn't see it without the filter,
added the filter -- and voila! What concerns me is that NGC 253
might be a bit nip and tuck in terms of having its surface
brightness stand out from the light pollution, so even a small
edge from that filter might help.
>> By the way, my own "challenge object" on which I'm focusing for the
>> next new Moon is NGC 253, the beautiful Silver Coin Galaxy in Sculptor,
>> If your location in Louisiana...view of this galaxy.
>> [...]
>
> I'll look that up and keep an eye out for it-good tip. I need to keep
> a better log of objects I've seen, I've used a small recorder, then
> wrote notes later. A Palm Pilot is good for this-portable.
Your system sounds efficient as well as portable. My approach is to use
a spiral notebook with a red LED flashlight. The advantage is that it's
good for sketches, which I can do in my StarDust observing chair, moving
my eye back and forth from eyepiece to notebook. The advantage of your
approach, however, is that talking into a recorder is generally faster
than writing, I'd guess.
Anyway, I've seen a DSO guide from South Africa where the writer very
much prefers your choice, with a recorder, plus maybe a notebook for
sketches.
>> It's interesting that we have almost identical telescopes.
>
> That's true-same size. Where did you get yours? I'm thinking from
> Canada? I'm sure it is a great scope, the dobs are easy to use. The
> XT4.5 is very grab & go for me, the f/8 focal length gives me sharp
> contrasty views even with the smaller aperture. I need to get out
> with the XT8 more, the views are really nice, and it will get to see
> more of Jupiter before it disappears. I wish I could keep it in the
> garage but with our humidity, all scopes stay inside. Nice, safe and
> dry.
You're correct that I got my Sky-Watcher from Canada: Efston Science,
which provides nice technical support and was helpful in keeping
tabs on the shipment of the scope when it got delayed at sea (something
beyond their control). Once it got to them, they were very prompt in
shipping it and getting me the tracking information.
As to size, I much agree that "the best scopes are the ones you use
the most," and can see how that XT4.5 would be very convenient for its
portability and also the slower optics at f/8. Does this help especially
with the Moon and planets, or also with DSO's (I guess that a contrasty
view would be desirable for almost anything)?
Curiously, with the Sky-Watcher -- I was almost going to say "XT8"
<grin > since they're so similar -- I also keep mine inside, and use
it there in an apartment observatory with a southerly view out of
my open (but screened) bedroom window. The only time the scope has
been briefly outside, on the balcony outside of my third-floor
apartment, was for a test when a mentor from the local club helped
me align the finder and collimate the mirrors. We did an Airy disk
test on a star to confirm the collimation, and quickly looked at
Venus (a neat demonstration of the phases that Galileo discovered).
Since then, I've used my Dob as an observatory scope, although I
wouldn't mind if someone who can drive and has a large enough
vehicle gave me and the scope a ride to a dark sky site, assuming
that we could get that scope down and later up two flights of
stairs! (There's no elevator in this building.)
Having an apartment observatory is lots of fun, with its own
advantages as well as challenges. That's a topic for other
articles, but I mostly read about people viewing through a
window with binocs or small refractors rather than 8" or 20cm
Dobs or the like, so maybe I'm in largely unexplored territory.
Back in 2001, Tony Flanders posted a report about starhopping
through a window with his 70mm refractor, and maybe he's done
this with his 178mm (7") Dob as well. Now and then there have
posts here about window viewing, and maybe Tony has published
on this in _Sky and Telescope_, for example.
Curiously, I found a Web page about a Welsh astronomer in the
19th century -- if I recall correctly -- who had an 8" Newtonian
reflector, the first reflector in that region using a coated
glass mirror rather than one made with speculum metal, and would
often use it to view out of a window. That's a precedent. As
it happens, his optics were a lot slower than ours.
> I had bought a black piece of material a couple of years ago, wanted
> to try that for something like Orion's Light's Out Canopy, I have it
> picked up somewhere but will get it. Someone mentioned the Light's
> Out Canopy helps keep the mosquitos away -GOOD!- It can only help,
> heck I use the trees in the yard to block out the spotlights, but that
> would do well. I have a black wool overcoat, I've draped it over
> myself during winter-it helps, but I'll get that material out. I
> think it was either felt or corduroy. If it's too light, I'll find
> something heavier or just get Orion's canopy.
The mosquito-repelling effect would be a nice feature! I'm not sure
what kind of material the Orion canopy uses; on quickly checking, I
couldn't find a fabric label, although maybe I missed it. It is
nice and thick, and for viewing through an eyepiece on my Dob,
provides a nice kind of sanctuary from those outdoor lights. With
my binoculars, I can view from below the level of the windowsill,
and have the walls of the room protect me from those lights -- maybe
a bit like your trees with the floodlights, although your trees
sound like a more natural and impressive kind of protection.
> Clear skies,
> Kerry O
>
And more good M27 viewing to you,
Most appreciatively,
Margo Schulter
mschulter@calweb.com
Lat. 38.566 Long. -121.430
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Date: 29 Aug 2007 20:26:14
From: rat ~( );>
Subject: Re: A *real* observation report
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On Aug 29, 3:08 pm, "Howard Lester" <hles...@mmto.org > wrote:
>
> You remain one of the desireables... no matter what you write.
>
> :-)
Thanks, Howard, I will try to take care that my future comments do
justice to your kind words.
rat
~( ); >
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Date: 30 Aug 2007 03:38:19
From: Florian
Subject: Re: A *real* observation report
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> You remain one of the desireables... no matter what you write.
Nice comment.
.Florian
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Date: 29 Aug 2007 13:28:47
From: ko57
Subject: Re: A *real* observation report
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> I will not defend my remarks. I think they are spot-on for many
> people. Not all. I posted here a couple of days ago to the Dumbell
> Nebula tread and I couldn't whether that reply of mine was tossed or
> stroked by people. Let the chips fall where they may. I put many,
> many, hours and much work into the forum and am proud of it and have
> made certain it goes places and offers things not available in others.
Hey, Martin-
I posted the Dumbell Nebula thread, it was meant to be a bit humorous-
my plight at not being able to see M27-in light of all the aggravation
the spam flood has caused around here. I did wind up getting the
Ultrablock and the Limicon Deep Sky filters, on sale at Astromart-if
not just to see if these would help in my skies. While the "battle"
might be just with the few floodlights, hopefully the filters will
help somewhat, or they may not.
I appreciated your reply and the other replies I'd gotten on that
thread. In no way would I disrespect you or other SAA visitors, as I
mentioned I'm grateful for all the insight, suggestions, tips,
observation reports, and the "heads up" for future sightings (comets,
etc.) I am very much an amateur at all this, and any advice here is
always welcome as far as I am concerned. I'm not of the "original,
back when it started" SAA gang but I do like this newsgroup, I have no
problem with you.
I agree with Margo Schulter-live and let live, and like her, I enjoy
the observation reports-her's too. A late "Welcome" from me Margo,
it's good to see other women here at SAA. Like you I have an XT8 (f/
6), I don't bring it out much but I bet next dark moonless night I
will.
Clear skies,
Kerry Elizabeth
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Date: 30 Aug 2007 00:02:07
From: Margo Schulter
Subject: Re: A *real* observation report
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ko57 <kowen@mobiletel.com > wrote:
> I posted the Dumbell Nebula thread, it was meant to be a bit humorous-
> my plight at not being able to see M27-in light of all the aggravation
> the spam flood has caused around here. I did wind up getting the
> Ultrablock and the Limicon Deep Sky filters, on sale at Astromart-if
> not just to see if these would help in my skies. While the "battle"
> might be just with the few floodlights, hopefully the filters will
> help somewhat, or they may not.
Hi, Kerry, and please let me lend you a bit of encouragement on M27.
As you noted in one of your posts in that thread -- a lot of fun to
read over -- M27 is precisely the kind of object where a filter like
your Orion Ultrablock or a Lumicon UHC can make a _dramatic_ difference.
I hope that that is what happens for you, and much look forward to
reading about how it goes.
By the way, my own "challenge object" on which I'm focusing for the
next new Moon is NGC 253, the beautiful Silver Coin Galaxy in Sculptor,
discovered in 1783 by Caroline Herschel. If your location in Louisiana
has a latitude of around 30 degrees, then you'd be about 8 degrees
south of me (Sacramento, California), and that could be an advantage
in getting the best view of this galaxy.
[...]
> I agree with Margo Schulter-live and let live, and like her, I enjoy
> the observation reports-her's too. A late "Welcome" from me Margo,
> it's good to see other women here at SAA. Like you I have an XT8 (f/
> 6), I don't bring it out much but I bet next dark moonless night I
> will.
Thank you very much for your encouragement. It's interesting that
we have almost identical telescopes. While my Dob actually has the
Sky-Watcher brand name, a friend told me that it looks very much
like an Orion design, so it might be just about a clone of the XT8.
By the way, one of your M27 posts reminds me to mention that
I have found an Orion Lights Out Canopy (recommended to me here)
quite helpful in dealing with local light pollution from outdoor
building lights. Maybe it would help with reducing glare from
those floodlights and keeping more of your dark adaptation.
> Clear skies,
> Kerry Elizabeth
With many thanks,
Margo Schulter
mschulter@calweb.com
Lat. 38.566 Long. -121.430
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Date: 29 Aug 2007 11:30:53
From: rat ~( );>
Subject: Re: A *real* observation report
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On Aug 29, 7:28 am, "Steve Paul" <smarshallp...@gmail.com > wrote:
> "rat ~( );>" <ratbo...@aol.com> wrote in messagenews:1188358409.082979.275390@r23g2000prd.googlegroups.com...> On Aug 28, 8:43?am, Greg Crinklaw <theskyhoundyour...@yahoo.com>
> > wrote:
> >> rat ~( );> wrote:
> >> >> Long live SAA!
>
> >> You mean sci.astro.abuse? If this is your idea of the true usenet,
> >> where friendliness and compassion are considered weakness and it is
> >> perfectly acceptable to heap abuse on people for no other reason than
> >> you can, then I hope SAA rots in hell.
>
> >> Maybe I'll go check out martin's forum after all.
>
> > Do what you want, Greg, I frankly don't give a rat's ass what you do.
>
> Hi Rat,
> Hesitantly said, I also think you went just a little bit over the top with
> the martin bashing.
>
snip
OK, I can accept that, my apologies to yourself, Greg Crinklaw (if he
is reading), and others for being overly harsh towards Martin.
I do not intend to make this "sci.astro.abuse" as Greg suggested
(which in itself was of course abusive).
You on the other hand demonstrated the calm maturity to point out my
obvious shortcoming in this thread in a totally non-confrontational
manner and you are correct about my behavior.
Sometimes we have other things going on in our lives that manifest
here in other ways (although that is no excuse for my behavior).
My original suggestion that whatever the stupid moderated newsgroup
Martin runs should be outlawed was tongue in cheek.
My point was that all attempts to redirect people away from here only
make SAA less viable as a hang-out.
I realize that unless I am careful, I can also make SAA a less
desirable place to visit.
I do intend to create more of a presence here in the future (and all
at my own expense ;-), and I sincerely hope that my contributions are
not all as bad as they have been in this thread.
None of this changes the fact that I am completely unimpressed with
Martin and his overinflated sense of self-importance.
rat
~( ); >
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Date: 29 Aug 2007 14:08:45
From: Howard Lester
Subject: Re: A *real* observation report
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"rat ~( ); >" wrote
> I do intend to create more of a presence here in the future (and all
> at my own expense ;-), and I sincerely hope that my contributions are
> not all as bad as they have been in this thread.
You remain one of the desireables... no matter what you write.
:-)
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Date: 29 Aug 2007 17:07:21
From: Steve Paul
Subject: Re: A *real* observation report
|
"rat ~( ); >" <ratboy99@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1188412253.465693.131800@m37g2000prh.googlegroups.com...
> On Aug 29, 7:28 am, "Steve Paul" <smarshallp...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi Rat,
>> Hesitantly said, I also think you went just a little bit over the top
>> with
>> the martin bashing.
>>
> snip
>
> Sometimes we have other things going on in our lives that manifest
> here in other ways (although that is no excuse for my behavior).
Well I wouldn't know. Personally, I've never exposed anything other than my
better nature on usenet.
-Steve
(Yeah, right!)
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
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Date: 28 Aug 2007 20:33:29
From: rat ~( );>
Subject: Re: A *real* observation report
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On Aug 28, 8:43?am, Greg Crinklaw <theskyhoundyour...@yahoo.com >
wrote:
> rat ~( );> wrote:
> >> Long live SAA!
>
> You mean sci.astro.abuse? If this is your idea of the true usenet,
> where friendliness and compassion are considered weakness and it is
> perfectly acceptable to heap abuse on people for no other reason than
> you can, then I hope SAA rots in hell.
>
> Maybe I'll go check out martin's forum after all.
>
> --
Do what you want, Greg, I frankly don't give a rat's ass what you do.
Also, if you will review the record, I've never spoken ill of you.
rat
~( ); >
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Date: 29 Aug 2007 09:28:37
From: Steve Paul
Subject: Re: A *real* observation report
|
"rat ~( ); >" <ratboy99@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1188358409.082979.275390@r23g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
> On Aug 28, 8:43?am, Greg Crinklaw <theskyhoundyour...@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>> rat ~( );> wrote:
>> >> Long live SAA!
>>
>> You mean sci.astro.abuse? If this is your idea of the true usenet,
>> where friendliness and compassion are considered weakness and it is
>> perfectly acceptable to heap abuse on people for no other reason than
>> you can, then I hope SAA rots in hell.
>>
>> Maybe I'll go check out martin's forum after all.
>
> Do what you want, Greg, I frankly don't give a rat's ass what you do.
>
Hi Rat,
Hesitantly said, I also think you went just a little bit over the top with
the martin bashing.
However, since I'm one of the friendly-compassionate, and forgiving, we're
totally cool (from my end anyhow). ;-)
-Steve P.
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Date: 28 Aug 2007 09:20:48
From: oriel36
Subject: Re: A *real* observation report
|
On 28 Aug, 15:43, Greg Crinklaw <theskyhoundyour...@yahoo.com > wrote:
> rat ~( );> wrote:
> >> Long live SAA!
>
> You mean sci.astro.abuse? If this is your idea of the true usenet,
> where friendliness and compassion are considered weakness and it is
> perfectly acceptable to heap abuse on people for no other reason than
> you can, then I hope SAA rots in hell.
>
> Maybe I'll go check out martin's forum after all.
>
> --
> Greg Crinklaw
> Astronomical Software Developer
> Cloudcroft, New Mexico, USA (33N, 106W, 2700m)
>
> SkyTools: http://www.skyhound.com/cs.html
> Observing:http://www.skyhound.com/sh/skyhound.html
> Comets: http://comets.skyhound.com
>
> To reply take out your eye
What pity is present when most of the great astronomical achievements
exist in a dormant state or are entirely twisted into conceptual
monsters.Show me your compassion with regard to the structural
astronomers like Copernicus and Kepler or the timekeeping astronomers
like Huygens and Harrison.
You want to develop your software then good for you but be sure to
explain why it is just an observational convenience and cannot be used
to determine the motions of the Earth nor to keep clocks in sync with
the axial cycle.That is what will set your software apart from the
many which now only work off an astrological/constellational
framework. If you do not do it then somebody else certainly will.
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Date: 27 Aug 2007 21:27:55
From: rat ~( );>
Subject: Re: A *real* observation report
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On Aug 27, 10:06?pm, martinhow...@bluebottle.com wrote:
> On Aug 27, 8:22 pm, "rat ~( );>" <ratbo...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> > I don't even have anything against you or your site.
>
> On Aug 20, 2:21?pm, martinhow...@bluebottle.com wrote:
>
> > Remember, it isn't a crime to read both sci.astro.amateur & Moderated
> > sci.astro.amateur (www.moderatedsciastroamateur.org).
>
> Well, if it's not, it sure as hell should be. You are further watering
> down S.A.A.
>
> Long live SAA!
>
> rat
> ~( );>
>
> Just what side of your mouth should we believe, rat?
You're a loser Martin, I'm not going to waste any more time with you.
rat
~( ); >
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Date: 28 Aug 2007 08:43:46
From: Greg Crinklaw
Subject: Re: A *real* observation report
|
rat ~( ); > wrote:
>> Long live SAA!
You mean sci.astro.abuse? If this is your idea of the true usenet,
where friendliness and compassion are considered weakness and it is
perfectly acceptable to heap abuse on people for no other reason than
you can, then I hope SAA rots in hell.
Maybe I'll go check out martin's forum after all.
--
Greg Crinklaw
Astronomical Software Developer
Cloudcroft, New Mexico, USA (33N, 106W, 2700m)
SkyTools: http://www.skyhound.com/cs.html
Observing: http://www.skyhound.com/sh/skyhound.html
Comets: http://comets.skyhound.com
To reply take out your eye
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Date: 28 Aug 2007 04:06:36
From:
Subject: Re: A *real* observation report
|
On Aug 27, 8:22 pm, "rat ~( ); >" <ratbo...@aol.com> wrote:
> I don't even have anything against you or your site.
On Aug 20, 2:21?pm, martinhow...@bluebottle.com wrote:
> Remember, it isn't a crime to read both sci.astro.amateur & Moderated
> sci.astro.amateur (www.moderatedsciastroamateur.org).
Well, if it's not, it sure as hell should be. You are further watering
down S.A.A.
Long live SAA!
rat
~( ); >
Just what side of your mouth should we believe, rat?
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Date: 27 Aug 2007 20:56:56
From: rat ~( );>
Subject: Re: A *real* observation report
|
<<Oops, silly me! I forgot to mention that I also was responsible for
the
SAA Mugshot page (when Gareth Slee let it go) complete with audio
clip
capability. I am thinking about putting that site back up. . .my
expense,
of course -- not yours or anybody elses. You are clearly outnumberd
in
every department, Mr. Mick. Go away.
--
Martin R. Howell
Worldwide Amateur Astronomers >>
I had no idea how important you are to yourself and how much you need
your ego stroked.
It really does take all kinds, doesn't it?
I apologize for getting involved, good luck to you on your new
website.
rat
~( ); >
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Date: 27 Aug 2007 20:22:55
From: rat ~( );>
Subject: Re: A *real* observation report
|
Sorry, I missed this:
On Aug 27, 8:32?am, martinhow...@bluebottle.com wrote:
> > 1). I thought that last post was to be your last post to SAA. So are
> > you not a man of your word or are you just an ordinary liar?
>
> Easy there, big boy. I simply changed my mind. Have you never done
> that?
I suppose. Your premature message of your demise had a certain
finality to it and I thought that you would have at least exhibited
the intestinal fortitude to make it a day or so without another knee-
jerk reactionary post. Guess I was wrong. Your quick turnabout implies
a certain insecurity with letting the chips fall where they may. You
don't have to respond to every comment or post. For one thing, you are
never going to convince your detractors, and for another, flinging
poop gets you covered in poop. You can't make it right.
> Rat, you seem determined to attack me for merely offering what many
> had asked for -- moderation. If you don't want to participate then
> that is up to you. Why not go take on the big boys and see how far
> you get? I am talking Cloudy Nights and Astromart and Yahoo Groups.
> These guys are ad supported. Moderated sci.astro.amateur is not. I
> pay for it.
What are you talking about "take on the big boys?" I don't understand
that. I have numerous friends including the owner of Astromart, and
several owners of Yahoo groups, that doesn't compel me to name-drop,
and in what whay would I be "taking them on?"
> I assure you, Rat, that some VERY prominent and contributing members
> of s.a.a. also post to Moderated sci.astro.amateur and realize that
> there is nothing wrong with reading and posting both places.
Now this, I find odd. There are prominent folks all over the internet,
and they are often quite accessable.
Is this some sort of contest for you to see who you can get to post
there?
Maybe Katie Couric could stop by and really get your rocks off.
What about the nobodies?
Do their posts get deleted before the important people's posts to save
room on your hard drive?
It seems like you are really insecure, and need other, what you
**perceive** to be "more important," people to validate you.
>Their
> presence in Moderated sci.astro.amateur in no way diminishes their
> standing in, or the amount of attention they give to,
> sci.astro.amateur.
It seems like you are using them to try to attract folks to your site,
is that it?
That's kind of silly, really.
There are numerous sites where so-called experts hang out and when I
want to talk equipment, I go find them.
When I want a cup of Joe or a snort of whiskey, I come here.
I don't even have anything against you or your site.
I was just struck by the hypocrisy that you posited by saying that
this was your last post, and your demeanor with respect to whatever
the rest of your problem is has seemed immature. You are not your own
best salesman.
> I am trying to give to the amateur astronomy community which has
> provided me much pleasure and company over the years What are you
> giving?
Nothing, I am not giving anything at all.
rat
~( ); >
|
| |
Date: 27 Aug 2007 20:04:19
From: rat ~( );>
Subject: Re: A *real* observation report
|
On Aug 27, 4:21?pm, martinhow...@bluebottle.com wrote:
> On Aug 27, 2:50 pm, martinhow...@bluebottle.com wrote:
>
>
>
> > In your eyes. . .others may see things differently with their eyes and
> > lots apparently do. Rich and Gareth Slee joined today.
>
> To avoid confusion, Richard DeLuca. For those of you wanting to
> interact with him, now you know where he is.
>
> --
> Martin R. Howell
> Moderated sci.astro.amateurwww.moderatedsciastroamateur.org
This is pretty funny, I must admit.
Hopefully I won't have any pressing, immediate need to "interact" with
Richard Deluca.
However, if I do, I will do so via email, just as I did wtih Gareth
Slee recently.
I think you yourself would have been better off quitting while you
were ahead.
You behave like a child, how old are you anyway?
rat
~( ); >
|
| |
Date: 27 Aug 2007 19:58:09
From: rat ~( );>
Subject: Re: A *real* observation report
|
On Aug 27, 8:32?am, martinhow...@bluebottle.com wrote:
> On Aug 26, 8:44 pm, "rat ~( );>" <ratbo...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> > On Aug 26, 8:01?pm, martinhow...@bluebottle.com wrote:
>
> > > I have NEVER exercised ANY moderator functions in the forum
> > > AT ALL (with the exception of the deletion of posts by members who
> > > either requested me to do so, or by those that have left. . .I need to
> > > conserve good megabytage for active members).
>
> > Two things:
>
> > 1). I thought that last post was to be your last post to SAA. So are
> > you not a man of your word or are you just an ordinary liar?
>
> Easy there, big boy. I simply changed my mind. Have you never done
> that?
>
> > 2). On Usenet the posts are archived much longer, I can find all of
> > the observing reports and posts that I have ever made with a simple
> > search, this is another advantage of Usenet, compared to your deleting
> > posts to try and make room for new ones..
>
> Rat, you seem determined to attack me for merely offering what many
> had asked for -- moderation. If you don't want to participate then
> that is up to you. Why not go take on the big boys and see how far
> you get? I am talking Cloudy Nights and Astromart and Yahoo Groups.
> These guys are ad supported. Moderated sci.astro.amateur is not. I
> pay for it.
>
> I assure you, Rat, that some VERY prominent and contributing members
> of s.a.a. also post to Moderated sci.astro.amateur and realize that
> there is nothing wrong with reading and posting both places. Their
> presence in Moderated sci.astro.amateur in no way diminishes their
> standing in, or the amount of attention they give to,
> sci.astro.amateur.
>
> I am trying to give to the amateur astronomy community which has
> provided me much pleasure and company over the years What are you
> giving?
>
> --
> Martin R. Howell
> Moderated sci.astro.amateurwww.moderatedsciastroamateur.org
You didn't respond to either of my questions.
rat
~( ); >
|
| |
Date: 27 Aug 2007 22:21:47
From:
Subject: Re: A *real* observation report
|
On Aug 27, 2:50 pm, martinhow...@bluebottle.com wrote:
>
> In your eyes. . .others may see things differently with their eyes and
> lots apparently do. Rich and Gareth Slee joined today.
To avoid confusion, Richard DeLuca. For those of you wanting to
interact with him, now you know where he is.
--
Martin R. Howell
Moderated sci.astro.amateur
www.moderatedsciastroamateur.org
|
| |
Date: 27 Aug 2007 21:50:24
From:
Subject: Re: A *real* observation report
|
On Aug 27, 1:16 pm, "William R. Mattil" <wrmat...@ix.netcom.com >
wrote:
> martinhow...@bluebottle.com wrote:
>
> > Easy there, big boy. I simply changed my mind. Have you never done
> > that?
>
> I think the humor here is the manner in which you "took your toys and
> left in a huff" and yet took the time to tell us that you had left.
>
> I'll let those better qualified souls analyze this behavior. But I can
> tell you that when my Son tried that at about 4 years old he was
> chastised for it.
Indeed, you are a most excellent chastiser, Bill.
>
>
>
> > Rat, you seem determined to attack me for merely offering what many
> > had asked for -- moderation. If you don't want to participate then
> > that is up to you. Why not go take on the big boys and see how far
> > you get? I am talking Cloudy Nights and Astromart and Yahoo Groups.
> > These guys are ad supported. Moderated sci.astro.amateur is not. I
> > pay for it.
>
> The more cynical users here have to wonder what it is that you are
> getting from this expenditure ? Aside from a feeling of self importance
> that is <g>
You're apparent lack of understanding the concept of giving without
strings attached speaks volumes about YOUR character, Mr. Mattil.
>
>
>
> > I assure you, Rat, that some VERY prominent and contributing members
> > of s.a.a. also post to Moderated sci.astro.amateur and realize that
> > there is nothing wrong with reading and posting both places. Their
> > presence in Moderated sci.astro.amateur in no way diminishes their
> > standing in, or the amount of attention they give to,
> > sci.astro.amateur.
>
> Listen buckwheat I don't care if Galileo and Newton both post to your
> cheesy little forum. Your constant Hawking (pun intended) of it here is
> ill advised and pretty much makes you look a fool.
In your eyes. . .others may see things differently with their eyes and
lots apparently do. Rich and Gareth Slee joined today. Gareth is now
the moderator of the "Computer Issues & Advice," board. Now tell me
this, Bill, how in the hell am I supposed to create awareness of a
forum created for and maintained for members of sci.astro.amateur to
access should they desire? An ad in the New York Times? Perhaps a
series of 60 radio commercials run on a national basis? Maybe a few
strategically placed million dollar media buys for select demographics
with markets? My periodic posting here is designed and aimed at the
person who reads this group just every once in a while and leaves in
disgust or wanting something else or who may enjoy the alternative if
they knew it exists. This group is read by hundreds every week, I
would guess, that are just passing trough and never return. My
posting about the existence of my group is designed to catch eye of
these passers-through. If these posts irritate you, sorry
Buckwheat.
>
>
>
> > I am trying to give to the amateur astronomy community which has
> > provided me much pleasure and company over the years What are you
> > giving?
>
> The Amateur Astronomy Community includes s.a.a right ? So what again is
> the purpose your little ego trip there ?
>
> Rat, along with a host of others give much more value and content to
> this group than you do.
Or yourself, Mr. Mattil, I bet others would agree.
I have said it once and this is the last time I will say it. You
don't like me and I don't like you. But the difference between you
and me in this forum is that I don't seek you out and belittle you.
Think about it. Of course, I am sure when you do, it won't take you
long to cook up another snide and demeaning remark to throw my way.
So be it. You think I am making myself look like a fool here? You
might not want to know how people may perceive YOU.
Oops, almost forgot. . .<g >
|
| |
Date: 27 Aug 2007 14:32:16
From:
Subject: Re: A *real* observation report
|
On Aug 26, 8:44 pm, "rat ~( ); >" <ratbo...@aol.com> wrote:
> On Aug 26, 8:01?pm, martinhow...@bluebottle.com wrote:
>
> > I have NEVER exercised ANY moderator functions in the forum
> > AT ALL (with the exception of the deletion of posts by members who
> > either requested me to do so, or by those that have left. . .I need to
> > conserve good megabytage for active members).
>
> Two things:
>
> 1). I thought that last post was to be your last post to SAA. So are
> you not a man of your word or are you just an ordinary liar?
Easy there, big boy. I simply changed my mind. Have you never done
that?
> 2). On Usenet the posts are archived much longer, I can find all of
> the observing reports and posts that I have ever made with a simple
> search, this is another advantage of Usenet, compared to your deleting
> posts to try and make room for new ones..
Rat, you seem determined to attack me for merely offering what many
had asked for -- moderation. If you don't want to participate then
that is up to you. Why not go take on the big boys and see how far
you get? I am talking Cloudy Nights and Astromart and Yahoo Groups.
These guys are ad supported. Moderated sci.astro.amateur is not. I
pay for it.
I assure you, Rat, that some VERY prominent and contributing members
of s.a.a. also post to Moderated sci.astro.amateur and realize that
there is nothing wrong with reading and posting both places. Their
presence in Moderated sci.astro.amateur in no way diminishes their
standing in, or the amount of attention they give to,
sci.astro.amateur.
I am trying to give to the amateur astronomy community which has
provided me much pleasure and company over the years What are you
giving?
--
Martin R. Howell
Moderated sci.astro.amateur
www.moderatedsciastroamateur.org
|
| | |
Date: 27 Aug 2007 20:16:29
From: William R. Mattil
Subject: Re: A *real* observation report
|
martinhowell@bluebottle.com wrote:
>
> Easy there, big boy. I simply changed my mind. Have you never done
> that?
>
I think the humor here is the manner in which you "took your toys and
left in a huff" and yet took the time to tell us that you had left.
I'll let those better qualified souls analyze this behavior. But I can
tell you that when my Son tried that at about 4 years old he was
chastised for it.
>
> Rat, you seem determined to attack me for merely offering what many
> had asked for -- moderation. If you don't want to participate then
> that is up to you. Why not go take on the big boys and see how far
> you get? I am talking Cloudy Nights and Astromart and Yahoo Groups.
> These guys are ad supported. Moderated sci.astro.amateur is not. I
> pay for it.
The more cynical users here have to wonder what it is that you are
getting from this expenditure ? Aside from a feeling of self importance
that is <g >
>
> I assure you, Rat, that some VERY prominent and contributing members
> of s.a.a. also post to Moderated sci.astro.amateur and realize that
> there is nothing wrong with reading and posting both places. Their
> presence in Moderated sci.astro.amateur in no way diminishes their
> standing in, or the amount of attention they give to,
> sci.astro.amateur.
Listen buckwheat I don't care if Galileo and Newton both post to your
cheesy little forum. Your constant Hawking (pun intended) of it here is
ill advised and pretty much makes you look a fool.
>
> I am trying to give to the amateur astronomy community which has
> provided me much pleasure and company over the years What are you
> giving?
The Amateur Astronomy Community includes s.a.a right ? So what again is
the purpose your little ego trip there ?
Rat, along with a host of others give much more value and content to
this group than you do.
Bill
|
| |
Date: 27 Aug 2007 07:45:14
From:
Subject: Re: A *real* observation report
|
martinhowell@bluebottle.com wrote:
>This is my last post to s.a.a.
"In the clearing stands a boxer, and a fighter by his trade;
And he carries the reminders, of every glove that layed him down,
or cut him till he cried out, in his anger and his shame;
'I am leaving, I am leaving', But the fighter still remains..."
- _The Boxer_, by Simon & Garfunkel
|
| |
Date: 27 Aug 2007 04:31:00
From:
Subject: Re: A *real* observation report
|
On Aug 26, 9:13 pm, "rat ~( ); >" <ratbo...@aol.com> wrote:
> On Aug 26, 9:52?pm, martinhow...@bluebottle.com wrote:
>
> > On Aug 25, 6:15 pm, "Jan Owen" <janow...@cox.net> wrote:
>
> > >>So YOU take care of it YOURSELF<<
>
> > Would you like hash browns or toast with that order? <lol>
> > j/k. . .it is done.
>
> it is done.
Have you ever experienced deja vu?
Have you ever experienced deja vu?
Have you ever experienced deja vu?
|
| |
Date: 26 Aug 2007 21:13:39
From: rat ~( );>
Subject: Re: A *real* observation report
|
On Aug 26, 9:52?pm, martinhow...@bluebottle.com wrote:
> On Aug 25, 6:15 pm, "Jan Owen" <janow...@cox.net> wrote:
>
> >>So YOU take care of it YOURSELF<<
>
> Would you like hash browns or toast with that order? <lol>
> j/k. . .it is done.
it is done.
|
| |
Date: 27 Aug 2007 03:52:14
From:
Subject: Re: A *real* observation report
|
On Aug 25, 6:15 pm, "Jan Owen" <janow...@cox.net > wrote:
>>So YOU take care of it YOURSELF<<
Would you like hash browns or toast with that order? <lol >
j/k. . .it is done.
|
| |
Date: 26 Aug 2007 20:44:36
From: rat ~( );>
Subject: Re: A *real* observation report
|
On Aug 26, 8:01?pm, martinhow...@bluebottle.com wrote:
> I have NEVER exercised ANY moderator functions in the forum
> AT ALL (with the exception of the deletion of posts by members who
> either requested me to do so, or by those that have left. . .I need to
> conserve good megabytage for active members).
Two things:
1). I thought that last post was to be your last post to SAA. So are
you not a man of your word or are you just an ordinary liar?
2). On Usenet the posts are archived much longer, I can find all of
the observing reports and posts that I have ever made with a simple
search, this is another advantage of Usenet, compared to your deleting
posts to try and make room for new ones..
rat
~( ); >
|
| |
Date: 27 Aug 2007 02:02:49
From:
Subject: Re: A *real* observation report
|
On Aug 26, 7:50 am, "William R. Mattil" <wrmat...@ix.netcom.com >
wrote:
> martinhow...@bluebottle.com wrote:
>
> > This is my last post to s.a.a.
>
> Don't let the door hit you in the ass on your way out.
>
> Bill
Hi Bill,
Once more I dodged the bullet!! ;')
> Martin
|
| | |
Date: 28 Aug 2007 21:42:06
From: Margo Schulter
Subject: Re: A *real* observation report
|
martinhowell@bluebottle.com wrote:
> Once more I dodged the bullet!! ;')
>
>
>> Martin
>
Hi, Martin, and it's a pleasure to see you back here.
As you've well said, people can and do change their
minds, and I want your homecoming to a hospitable
one even as we have the additional choice to enjoy
your forum as well.
"Live and let live" seems a fine basis for peaceful
coexistence. I'm one of the people who sees both
forums as worthwhile, and suggests that we explore
and celebrate the positive aspects of each if we are
so inclined, and otherwise celebrate the virtues of
whichever we prefer while recognizing that reasonable
people can differ.
By the way, did you get a chance to see the eclipse?
Best,
Margo
|
| | |
Date: 27 Aug 2007 03:47:49
From: Florian
Subject: Re: A *real* observation report
|
Hi Martin! Good to see you back on SAA! ;-)
.Florian
|
| | |
Date: 27 Aug 2007 03:28:40
From: William R. Mattil
Subject: Re: A *real* observation report
|
martinhowell@bluebottle.com wrote:
> On Aug 26, 7:50 am, "William R. Mattil" <wrmat...@ix.netcom.com>
> wrote:
>> martinhow...@bluebottle.com wrote:
>>
>>> This is my last post to s.a.a.
>> Don't let the door hit you in the ass on your way out.
>>
>> Bill
>
>
> Hi Bill,
>
> Once more I dodged the bullet!! ;')
So you really didn't leave eh ? <lol >
Figured.
Bill
|
| |
Date: 27 Aug 2007 02:01:22
From:
Subject: Re: A *real* observation report
|
On Aug 26, 7:12 am, Chris L Peterson <c...@alumni.caltech.edu > wrote:
> On Sun, 26 Aug 2007 03:38:10 -0700, oriel36 <geraldkelle...@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
> >No offense sunshine but you share the same astrological outlook as
> >Daniel,as far as I am concerned you insult yourselves by believing in
> >ideas such as the natural noon cycle is 24 hours exactly in order to
> >justify the value of 23 hours 56 minutes 04 seconds...
>
> Case in point. A response like this lets me start off my day with a good
> chuckle... something I'd miss on a moderated forum <g>.
I am slammed by lots of people who never even looked at Moderated
sci.astro.amateur and that is to be expected, I suppose. For what it
is worth, I have NEVER exercised ANY moderator functions in the forum
AT ALL (with the exception of the deletion of posts by members who
either requested me to do so, or by those that have left. . .I need to
conserve good megabytage for active members). Yes, there is a
censored word filter, but if one feels the urge to use words that may
be read by children then the censored word filter will feel the urge
to see to it that these words don't see the light of day at the
forum. ;-)
And Chris, as an aside, Gerald (oriel) IS a member of Moderated
sci.astro.amateur, he just has chosen not to post. Should he decide
to then his post will certainly appear. That is what the forum's OT
section is about.
--
Martin R. Howell
Moderated sci.astro.amateur
www.moderatedsciastroamateur.org
|
| |
Date: 26 Aug 2007 11:42:03
From: oriel36
Subject: Re: A *real* observation report
|
On Aug 26, 3:12 pm, Chris L Peterson <c...@alumni.caltech.edu > wrote:
> On Sun, 26 Aug 2007 03:38:10 -0700, oriel36 <geraldkelle...@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
> >No offense sunshine but you share the same astrological outlook as
> >Daniel,as far as I am concerned you insult yourselves by believing in
> >ideas such as the natural noon cycle is 24 hours exactly in order to
> >justify the value of 23 hours 56 minutes 04 seconds...
>
> Case in point. A response like this lets me start off my day with a good
> chuckle... something I'd miss on a moderated forum <g>.
>
> _________________________________________________
>
> Chris L Peterson
> Cloudbait Observatoryhttp://www.cloudbait.com
Hey,coming across an entire group of people who believe that a
location rotates to noon in 24 hours exactly in order to justify a 3
minute 56 second difference via the orbital motion of the Earth is
quite an experience -
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sidereal_time
I give kids a real chance for the first time in centuries to
appreciate the natural noon cycles,how the daily noon correction
creates the 24 hour day,how these 24 hour cycles elapse into each
other and ultimately how brilliant timekeeping astronomers exploited
the principle to keep clocks in sync with the axial cycle and
subsequently 4 minutes of clock time represent 1 degree of
geographical seperation.
Chuckle all you wish,indeed break out into a side splitting laugh,but
it will be hollow considering that no race of people in human history
before the late 17th century believed the noon cycles are 24 hours
exactly,that you can justify the return of a star to a location in 23
hours 56 minutes 04 seconds by using the motions of the Earth or that
you can force the axial and orbital motion of the Earth into the 1461
day calendrical cycle.
Sorry for the enormous waste of effort by so many people over so many
centuries and all based on a single mistake by John Flamsteed.Noi to
worry,there is still plenty to do for genuine dynamicists especially
with the advent of real astronomers.
|
| |
Date: 26 Aug 2007 03:38:10
From: oriel36
Subject: Re: A *real* observation report
|
On Aug 26, 2:31 am, Chris L Peterson <c...@alumni.caltech.edu > wrote:
> On Sun, 26 Aug 2007 00:28:23 -0000, martinhow...@bluebottle.com wrote:
> >So thanks to the few that continue to be active here. Perhaps at some
> >point, the others who register and never return (for months) or post
> >once or twice never to return, will sooner or later have more pride
> >than to needlessly take the abuse being shelved on them at s.a.a.
>
> Martin-
>
> You have to have known there was a real risk in what you're trying to do
> with your forum. After all, there are already a number of forums that
> are similar, such as Cloudy Nights, as well as any number of Yahoo
> groups. The fact is, most of the folks hanging out here on SAA like this
> environment. It's evolution: those who don't like it have already left.
> The newsgroup interface is a good one, which can't be duplicated on the
> Web (although Yahoo groups, listservs, and other email-based systems can
> come close). I also expect most of us have pretty thick skins. Good
> discussions continue here, and if the occasional idiot tosses in some
> insult or non-sequitor, it doesn't really matter. I certainly don't feel
> insulted by anything Gerald or Min can toss at me. And frankly, I find
> some of the off-the-wall stuff quite amusing.
>
No offense sunshine but you share the same astrological outlook as
Daniel,as far as I am concerned you insult yourselves by believing in
ideas such as the natural noon cycle is 24 hours exactly in order to
justify the value of 23 hours 56 minutes 04 seconds -
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sidereal_time
Far from dying,the first signs of astronomy are surfacing from behind
the weak magnification exercise to which you lot limit astronomy and
especially from behind the unnatural astrological framework which you
believe exists.
The creation of the equable 24 hour day and how each of these cycle
elapse into each other represents one of the greatest of human
achievements by recognising how the natural noon cycles are
unequal,then you go on to admire how clocks are kept in sync with the
axial cycle for the purpose of determining location based on the
correlation between 4 minutes of clock time for each degree of
geographical seperation.
You can go on to make the really big discoveries in climatological and
geological disciplines based on terrestrial dynamics but if you cannot
rise above the dumb view of tying axial rotation directly to a
constellational framework then you will remain nothing other than
astrologers with telescopes and that is that.
Insult you !,you insult yourselves quite nicely .
> Best of luck with your project... it's obvious you've invested a lot of
> time in it, and I hope it works out for you and that you find your
> niche.
>
> _________________________________________________
>
> Chris L Peterson
> Cloudbait Observatoryhttp://www.cloudbait.com
|
| | |
Date: 26 Aug 2007 08:12:31
From: Chris L Peterson
Subject: Re: A *real* observation report
|
On Sun, 26 Aug 2007 03:38:10 -0700, oriel36 <geraldkelleher@yahoo.com >
wrote:
>No offense sunshine but you share the same astrological outlook as
>Daniel,as far as I am concerned you insult yourselves by believing in
>ideas such as the natural noon cycle is 24 hours exactly in order to
>justify the value of 23 hours 56 minutes 04 seconds...
Case in point. A response like this lets me start off my day with a good
chuckle... something I'd miss on a moderated forum <g >.
_________________________________________________
Chris L Peterson
Cloudbait Observatory
http://www.cloudbait.com
|
| | | |
Date: 26 Aug 2007 09:40:02
From: Marty
Subject: Re: A *real* observation report
|
I'm a webtv person. It's a very simple, rather primitive, system that
works well with USENET groups. Maybe I should get a computer, but it
simply isn't one of my interests, and so far, sitting on the couch in my
living room with a remote keyboard on by lap, watching all this on my TV
has served me well. Many of the other groups are much more cumbersome
to use with my simple browser and dialup webbybox, and it can take
considerable time hopping around between different sections of some
forums. I do wish your new group the best, but this one works well with
my webbybox and I don't see posting here as being traitorous to your
group in any way.
Over the years, I've come to know and enjoy many of the regulars
here. I can't killfile, block, or filter out any of the crap, but I can
skip over it and wait for the cretins to tire of their vandalism. I
can't say that I come here because I enjoy their attention, as you
imply, but I won't let them ruin a good thing for me either.
Marty
|
| |
Date: 26 Aug 2007 02:34:57
From: embargo
Subject: Re: A *real* observation report
|
martinhowell@bluebottle.com wrote:
> I know this is going to upset some people. But remember, this is an
> unmoderated forum here so I will speak my mind. I won't be the first
> and I certainly won't be the last to stray into taboo OT.
>
> The following was posted today in Moderated sci.astro.amateur by a
> fine and well-known amateur:
>
> FYI, I installed wxAstroCapture software available for download from
> <http://arnholm.org/astro/software/wxAstroCapture/> on my notebook
> with MS Vista and it works great - in fact it works better than any
> capture program I have tried.
>
> Here is my reply to that individual:
>
> Well, let me step up to the plate and say that is wonderful news,
> Jeff. Others would be stepping up to the plate to say the same thing
> I am sure, but for some reason they seem to have forgotten where our
> plate is. Several of our members, who have posted and replied here in
> the past, are quite active in sci.astro.amateur now, while not coming
> back here even to read the forum. Seems real strange to me. One of
> our previously active topic starters and posters contributed a very
> nice post today to s.a.a. only to be told to "dream on. . .fuc
> nuts" (sic) by a resident *****. Why on earth anyone would tolerate
> that stuff escapes me. It is possible that some have been swimming
> and drinking from the cesspool that s.a.a. has become so long now that
> they are used to the smell and taste of ****. I think it is more
> likely though that some continue to post there and not here because
> they are seeking and need the attention -- and perhaps a few ego
> stroking responses -- that one or more of the remaining "good" people
> there MAY offer.
>
You can stop right here. Arnholm software is good. I use
several of his and would be almost lost without them, and fair
priced also not to mention the free advice he has given me
several times which mattered a lot to me.
Th rest of what you say sounds a little hypocritical to me. Good
luck with your group and better luck here at SAA!
Reagrds.
>
> So thanks to the few that continue to be active here. Perhaps at some
> point, the others who register and never return (for months) or post
> once or twice never to return, will sooner or later have more pride
> than to needlessly take the abuse being shelved on them at s.a.a.
|
| | |
Date: 28 Aug 2007 15:44:42
From: Carsten A. Arnholm
Subject: Re: A *real* observation report
|
embargo wrote:
> You can stop right here. Arnholm software is good. I use
> several of his and would be almost lost without them, and fair
> priced also not to mention the free advice he has given me
> several times which mattered a lot to me.
Hi & thanks for that encouragement!
This is the kind of spirit & feedback we need to keep on helping each other.
That is much more fun and interesting!
Clear skies
Carsten A. Arnholm
http://arnholm.org/
N59.776 E10.457
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Date: 25 Aug 2007 22:09:53
From: SkySea
Subject: Re: A *real* observation report
|
Holycow, Martin...
> martinhowell@bluebottle.com wrote:
>I know this is going to upset some people.
So you're saying that you're aware of trampling on others' toes. That
alone could qualify someone as being a jerk.
>But remember, this is an unmoderated forum here so I will speak my mind.
Sounds like you have a problem with free speech, so you're going to do
your darndest to be as ofensive as possible to impose your personal
concept of being a benevolent dictator.
>I won't be the first and I certainly won't be the last to stray into taboo OT.
Does that make it right to do so? No despot sice the first in history
was the first, but good riddance to all of them.
>The following was posted today in Moderated sci.astro.amateur by a
>fine and well-known amateur:
Giving validity to your credentials?
>FYI, I installed wxAstroCapture software available for download from
><http://arnholm.org/astro/software/wxAstroCapture/> on my notebook
>with MS Vista and it works great - in fact it works better than any
>capture program I have tried.
Okay, nice beginning to an on-topic post...
>Here is my reply to that individual:
The pitch...
>Well, let me step up to the plate and say that is wonderful news,
>Jeff.
Building the foundation that you know how to be nice...
>Others would be stepping up to the plate to say the same thing
>I am sure, but for some reason they seem to have forgotten where our
>plate is.
So not only do you have things to say about what people shouldn't say,
but you feel you can complain about *lack* of speech.
>Several of our members, who have posted and replied here in
>the past, are quite active in sci.astro.amateur now, while not coming
>back here even to read the forum. Seems real strange to me.
It could be because you're into your own invention, and have no
understanding for how the options available can have advantages.
That's pretty single-minded.
>One of our previously active topic starters and posters contributed a very
>nice post today to s.a.a. only to be told to "dream on. . .fuc
>nuts" (sic) by a resident *****.
Life's unfair, and there are reasons to belive the gene pool could use
some chlorine. Oh well.
>Why on earth anyone would tolerate that stuff escapes me.
For my part, I'd consider the source. If it any of a variety of
nitwits, I wouldn't care about their opinion. Everybody can find
offense at anything anyone says, so you just have to put up with
offending someone no matter what you might say. You have to grow a
skin.
>It is possible that some have been swimming
>and drinking from the cesspool that s.a.a. has become so long now that
>they are used to the smell and taste of ****.
Was that really necessary? It certainly wasn't critical thinking.
>I think it is more
>likely though that some continue to post there and not here because
>they are seeking and need the attention -- and perhaps a few ego
>stroking responses -- that one or more of the remaining "good" people
>there MAY offer.
I think it sounds more like you're trying to make those of us who stay
here feel bad about being here at all. Talk about needing attention...
>So thanks to the few that continue to be active here. Perhaps at some
>point, the others who register and never return (for months) or post
>once or twice never to return, will sooner or later have more pride
>than to needlessly take the abuse being shelved on them at s.a.a.
Do you seriously think that because old-timers stay here is because
they need some strokling?
This place has been here for over a decade. Longer than you. Unless
there's a major shift in how the Internet as a whole works in the
future, it will be here for a long time to come.
You AND your forum could disappear tomorrow. Sure, someone else could
start a new one. Indeed, some have. So we might need to pick up 'nyms
again, have to fire up some web browser, and log in and hope that
everything is working AOK, remember yet more passwords. For Usenet, we
can have a variety of clients, and even have Usenet delievered via
e-mail (yes, such service does exist - not well known because it's
clumsy, but for some it's the only way...). We CAN use web browsers to
get to a variety of other servers, like Google, Usenet Replayer... But
for your forum, we need to rely on you or an anointed bishop (no pun
there, Dennis) in your See to decide you have the time to approve
messages. You could get bored, or a life, and then the game is
sporadic.
Usenet is as old as the Internet, and it seems it'll be here for a
while, and we don't have a megalomaniac whining about what we should
and shouldn't say.
Thanks, but your attitude makes me wary of your world as a place I
want to visit.
Good luck with your dominion.
=============
- Dale Gombert (SkySea at aol.com)
122.38W, 47.58N, W. Seattle, WA
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| |
Date: 26 Aug 2007 01:46:41
From: Mark Conroe
Subject: Re: A *real* observation report
|
<martinhowell@bluebottle.com > wrote:
> I think it is more likely though that some continue to post there and not
> here because...
You think /way/ too much. Get a freakin' life.
|
| |
Date: 25 Aug 2007 19:31:30
From: Chris L Peterson
Subject: Re: A *real* observation report
|
On Sun, 26 Aug 2007 00:28:23 -0000, martinhowell@bluebottle.com wrote:
>So thanks to the few that continue to be active here. Perhaps at some
>point, the others who register and never return (for months) or post
>once or twice never to return, will sooner or later have more pride
>than to needlessly take the abuse being shelved on them at s.a.a.
Martin-
You have to have known there was a real risk in what you're trying to do
with your forum. After all, there are already a number of forums that
are similar, such as Cloudy Nights, as well as any number of Yahoo
groups. The fact is, most of the folks hanging out here on SAA like this
environment. It's evolution: those who don't like it have already left.
The newsgroup interface is a good one, which can't be duplicated on the
Web (although Yahoo groups, listservs, and other email-based systems can
come close). I also expect most of us have pretty thick skins. Good
discussions continue here, and if the occasional idiot tosses in some
insult or non-sequitor, it doesn't really matter. I certainly don't feel
insulted by anything Gerald or Min can toss at me. And frankly, I find
some of the off-the-wall stuff quite amusing.
Best of luck with your project... it's obvious you've invested a lot of
time in it, and I hope it works out for you and that you find your
niche.
_________________________________________________
Chris L Peterson
Cloudbait Observatory
http://www.cloudbait.com
|
| |
Date: 26 Aug 2007 01:18:19
From:
Subject: Re: A *real* observation report
|
On Aug 25, 6:04 pm, Esmail <ebonak_de...@hotmail.com > wrote:
> martinhow...@bluebottle.com wrote:
>
> > It is possible that some have been swimming> and drinking from the cesspool that s.a.a. has become so long now that
> > they are used to the smell and taste of ****.
>
> <...>
> > I think it is more
>
> > likely though that some continue to post there and not here because
> > they are seeking and need the attention -- and perhaps a few ego
> > stroking responses -- that one or more of the remaining "good" people
> > there MAY offer.
>
> I don't think your approach of insulting those of us who frequent
> s.a.a. is a very effective way to attract (and retain?) members.
>
> Any curiosity I may have had about your forum has consequently
> been lost. I don't think you are doing your forum or anyone a
> service with these sorts of postings.
>
> Just my 2 cents.
This is not an indictment of all. Note the word I used twice. . .the
word "some."
I will not defend my remarks. I think they are spot-on for many
people. Not all. I posted here a couple of days ago to the Dumbell
Nebula tread and I couldn't whether that reply of mine was tossed or
stroked by people. Let the chips fall where they may. I put many,
many, hours and much work into the forum and am proud of it and have
made certain it goes places and offers things not available in others.
This is my last post to s.a.a.
Have fun, all.
|
| | |
Date: 26 Aug 2007 09:50:29
From: William R. Mattil
Subject: Re: A *real* observation report
|
martinhowell@bluebottle.com wrote:
>
> This is my last post to s.a.a.
Don't let the door hit you in the ass on your way out.
Bill
|
| | |
Date: 26 Aug 2007 10:25:19
From: Margo Schulter
Subject: Re: A *real* observation report
|
martinhowell@bluebottle.com wrote:
>
> This is my last post to s.a.a.
>
> Have fun, all.
>
Hi, there, Martin, and I'll miss you here.
Personally I'd urge that we take each forum as a positive asset,
celebrate it in its own terms, and accept that people quite
naturally will have different tastes or priorities.
Judicious moderation can sometimes promote civility, something
I indeed value; this calls for delicate judgement, and I'm sure
that you'll strive to make your forum a hospitable place.
An unmoderated forum also has its advantages, but at the high
price of some abuse _on_ the net and _of_ the net that could
hardly be considered an admirable feature. People might choose
to stay, to go, or even use both this forum and moderated ones
such as yours -- and I'd respect all of these options. I can
feel at home on unmoderated and moderated forums alike, as long
as the moderation is exercised with restraint and fairness --
which I understand is your approach.
Let's not underestimate the strength of community in settings
new and old. Reading the observation reports that get posted
here can lend lots of impetus to my own observing, and it's
fun to compare notes -- also possible on moderated forums,
of course.
Thus I'd like to thank you for your contributions here, one of
which gave both my Mom and I a bit of comic relief and also
caused us to praise your talents as a poet, and wish your
forum the best.
This is a big universe, with room for lots of forums.
Most appreciatively,
Margo Schulter
mschulter@calweb.com
Lat. 38.566 Long. -121.430
|
| | |
Date: 26 Aug 2007 02:33:25
From: Florian
Subject: Re: A *real* observation report
|
> This is my last post to s.a.a.
We'll see. ;-)
Sometimes your postings about your alternate saa are just a bit annoying.
But that's okay. Usenet is suppose to be just a bit annoying. Best wishes
as always...
.Florian
|
| |
Date: 25 Aug 2007 18:15:03
From: Jan Owen
Subject: Re: A *real* observation report
|
<martinhowell@bluebottle.com > wrote in message
news:1188088103.322284.160840@r34g2000hsd.googlegroups.com...
>
> I know this is going to upset some people. But remember, this is an
> unmoderated forum here so I will speak my mind. I won't be the first
> and I certainly won't be the last to stray into taboo OT.
>
>
> The following was posted today in Moderated sci.astro.amateur by a
> fine and well-known amateur:
>
> FYI, I installed wxAstroCapture software available for download from
> <http://arnholm.org/astro/software/wxAstroCapture/> on my notebook
> with MS Vista and it works great - in fact it works better than any
> capture program I have tried.
>
>
> Here is my reply to that individual:
>
> Well, let me step up to the plate and say that is wonderful news,
> Jeff. Others would be stepping up to the plate to say the same thing
> I am sure, but for some reason they seem to have forgotten where our
> plate is. Several of our members, who have posted and replied here in
> the past, are quite active in sci.astro.amateur now, while not coming
> back here even to read the forum. Seems real strange to me. One of
> our previously active topic starters and posters contributed a very
> nice post today to s.a.a. only to be told to "dream on. . .fuc
> nuts" (sic) by a resident *****. Why on earth anyone would tolerate
> that stuff escapes me. It is possible that some have been swimming
> and drinking from the cesspool that s.a.a. has become so long now that
> they are used to the smell and taste of ****. I think it is more
> likely though that some continue to post there and not here because
> they are seeking and need the attention -- and perhaps a few ego
> stroking responses -- that one or more of the remaining "good" people
> there MAY offer.
>
> So thanks to the few that continue to be active here. Perhaps at some
> point, the others who register and never return (for months) or post
> once or twice never to return, will sooner or later have more pride
> than to needlessly take the abuse being shelved on them at s.a.a.
>
I just tried to unsubscribe from your *whatever it is* wannabe SAA, and it
won't LET me... So YOU take care of it YOURSELF... But never fear, I won't
be back...
--
Jan Owen
To reach me directly, remove the Z, if one appears in my e-mail address...
Latitude: 33.6
Longitude: -112.3
http://community.webshots.com/user/janowen21
--
Jan Owen
To reach me directly, remove the Z, if one appears in my e-mail address...
Latitude: 33.6
Longitude: -112.3
http://community.webshots.com/user/janowen21
|
| |
Date: 25 Aug 2007 21:04:11
From: Esmail
Subject: Re: A *real* observation report
|
martinhowell@bluebottle.com wrote:
>
> It is possible that some have been swimming
> and drinking from the cesspool that s.a.a. has become so long now that
> they are used to the smell and taste of ****.
<... >
> I think it is more
> likely though that some continue to post there and not here because
> they are seeking and need the attention -- and perhaps a few ego
> stroking responses -- that one or more of the remaining "good" people
> there MAY offer.
I don't think your approach of insulting those of us who frequent
s.a.a. is a very effective way to attract (and retain?) members.
Any curiosity I may have had about your forum has consequently
been lost. I don't think you are doing your forum or anyone a
service with these sorts of postings.
Just my 2 cents.
|
| |
Date: 25 Aug 2007 17:32:46
From: Jan Owen
Subject: Re: A *real* observation report
|
<martinhowell@bluebottle.com > wrote in message
news:1188088103.322284.160840@r34g2000hsd.googlegroups.com...
>
> I know this is going to upset some people. But remember, this is an
> unmoderated forum here so I will speak my mind. I won't be the first
> and I certainly won't be the last to stray into taboo OT.
>
>
> The following was posted today in Moderated sci.astro.amateur by a
> fine and well-known amateur:
>
> FYI, I installed wxAstroCapture software available for download from
> <http://arnholm.org/astro/software/wxAstroCapture/> on my notebook
> with MS Vista and it works great - in fact it works better than any
> capture program I have tried.
>
>
> Here is my reply to that individual:
>
> Well, let me step up to the plate and say that is wonderful news,
> Jeff. Others would be stepping up to the plate to say the same thing
> I am sure, but for some reason they seem to have forgotten where our
> plate is. Several of our members, who have posted and replied here in
> the past, are quite active in sci.astro.amateur now, while not coming
> back here even to read the forum. Seems real strange to me. One of
> our previously active topic starters and posters contributed a very
> nice post today to s.a.a. only to be told to "dream on. . .fuc
> nuts" (sic) by a resident *****. Why on earth anyone would tolerate
> that stuff escapes me. It is possible that some have been swimming
> and drinking from the cesspool that s.a.a. has become so long now that
> they are used to the smell and taste of ****. I think it is more
> likely though that some continue to post there and not here because
> they are seeking and need the attention -- and perhaps a few ego
> stroking responses -- that one or more of the remaining "good" people
> there MAY offer.
>
> So thanks to the few that continue to be active here. Perhaps at some
> point, the others who register and never return (for months) or post
> once or twice never to return, will sooner or later have more pride
> than to needlessly take the abuse being shelved on them at s.a.a.
>
You know, Martin, your group needs to sink or swim on it's OWN merits, and
not by your politicking here...
Bye, now...
--
Jan Owen
To reach me directly, remove the Z, if one appears in my e-mail address...
Latitude: 33.6
Longitude: -112.3
http://community.webshots.com/user/janowen21
|
|
