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Main
Date: 19 Sep 2007 23:23:21
From: G
Subject: ASTRO: So is anyone else getting sick?
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lol
Just saw this...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/7001897.stm
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Date: 22 Sep 2007 00:20:59
From: Rainy Day
Subject: Re: ASTRO: So is anyone else getting sick?
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Meteorites always make people sick, shivel up and die, you
hear about it every day on the news (on FOX, FIX, Entertainment andf
Insider). That is why Im sure this was a meteorite, or Budweiser cans
pitched by members of my club. Have a beer
with Jesus and donate to save our treasury!
G wrote:
> lol
> Just saw this...
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/7001897.stm
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Date: 21 Sep 2007 20:23:35
From: LarryG
Subject: Re: ASTRO: So is anyone else getting sick?
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On Sep 21, 4:32 am, josephus <dogb...@earthlink.net > wrote:
> LarryG wrote:
> > On Sep 20, 10:33 am, Greg Crinklaw <theskyhoundyour...@yahoo.com>
> > wrote:
>
> >>LarryG wrote:
>
> >>>There is some indication that the "meteorite" is/was indeed a downed
> >>>satellite.
>
> >>>ref:http://www.whatdoesitmean.com/index1034.htm
>
> >>>The article's source is not entirely reliable in reaching
> >>>conclusions, however they do provide some links to more accurate
> >>>reporting. Of interest are the symptoms, which some link to radiation
> >>> poisoning - nausea, headaches, etc. But even if radiation is not
> >>>the cause, spacecraft propellant, such as is used in the steering
> >>>thrusters of the Space Shuttle, is said to be highly toxic.
>
> >>Utter nonsense (doubly). Satellites don't make large single holes in
> >>the ground when they de-orbit. Rather, they produce a debris field as
> >>they break up. Even if there were some very large and heavy component
> >>that caused the hole, there would also be scattered debris. And science
> >>fiction aside, satellites don't generally carry radioactive materials on
> >>board. Even if this were a secret weapons satellite, do you really
> >>think nobody would show up to clean up their little mess?
>
> > Nuclear power for spy satellites makes a lot of sense. Solar panels
> > not only help give away a satellites position, but they increase the
> > vehicle's vulnerability to attack and meteor impacts. Fuel cells are
> > good only for a few months to a year, depending on how much fuel
> > could be put onboard. Nuclear power has been on Russian spy sats
> > for decades. I'm not sure that the Americans have ignored its
> > advantages, but I would bet that they would never advertise such
> > designs.
>
> > And having a smaller footprint, the vehicle might be ruggedized to
> > survive reentry and keep the dangerous components more or less
> > localized, if not in tact. Warheads on nuclear missiles are designed
> > with just objectives in mind. Again, that technology is decades old.
>
> > And how does one go about cleaning up such a mess, without
> > drawing attention to the crash site? Wear camouflage haz-mat
> > suit? Pretend to be shooting an episode of Nova? Or perhaps
> > send in a crew disguised as scientists from a nearby University.
>
> >>Finally, a team of scientists from a Peruvian university reported that
> >>this was a Chondrite.
>
> most of what you say is true but there is a problem with it. a dense
> nuclear satelite will not explode on impact and there is no incicatio of
> any foreign object in the pool. it could be a small pond. in a area
> where the water table is down about 2 feet. It is next best thing to a
> swamp.
>
> I point out that to make such a hole a stone will eject much more than
> the little bit we see. it does not look like an explosion due to an
> impact at all try throwing a large stone into wet sand. It does not
> resemble this pot hole at all. Even dynamite will scatter more stuff.
>
There is need for an explosion on impact, to explain the
symptoms, only that something unhealthy leak into the
local environment. If it were a nuke, then the fissionable
material, or the radioactive byproducts would be likely
suspects. And I would not rule out either toxic propellants
used to steer the craft.
And since you correctly point out that the area that this
thing impacted is nearly a swamp, there is also the
possibility of some sort of underground bacteria being
exposed and brought to the surface by whatever hit. This
is really the more likely explaination, but I haven't seen
anything yet which actually *rules out* the other possibilities.
Until there is sufficient evidence, one way or the other,
I prefer to consider all of the possibilities, within the larger
context of what is happening in the world.
Cheers,
Larry G.
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Date: 21 Sep 2007 23:23:40
From: Greg Crinklaw
Subject: Re: ASTRO: So is anyone else getting sick?
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LarryG wrote:
> Until there is sufficient evidence, one way or the other,
> I prefer to consider all of the possibilities, within the larger
> context of what is happening in the world.
Even the incredibly unlikely, bordering-on-silly ones. And that's where
you lose your head (and your credibility).
--
Greg Crinklaw
Astronomical Software Developer
Cloudcroft, New Mexico, USA (33N, 106W, 2700m)
SkyTools: http://www.skyhound.com/cs.html
Observing: http://www.skyhound.com/sh/skyhound.html
Comets: http://comets.skyhound.com
To reply take out your eye
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Date: 20 Sep 2007 23:51:01
From: LarryG
Subject: Re: ASTRO: So is anyone else getting sick?
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On Sep 21, 1:00 am, Chris L Peterson <c...@alumni.caltech.edu > wrote:
> On Thu, 20 Sep 2007 21:54:45 -0700, LarryG <larryg...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >Nuclear power for spy satellites makes a lot of sense. Solar panels
> >not only help give away a satellites position, but they increase the
> >vehicle's vulnerability to attack and meteor impacts.
>
> Your logic is fine, but in fact the best spy satellites are pretty
> obvious because of their necessary large size (they are basically Hubble
> telescopes). It is well established that the most advanced American spy
> satellites use high efficiency solar panels that hug the cylindrical
> telescope bodies.
I have never understood how supposedly classified information
ends up being publicly accessible knowledge. Books such as
Jane's Ships/Planes/Weapons would seem to infringe on many
military secrets.
So how are we to conclude that what is claimed to be the most
advanced American spy satellites are what we are told they are?
It isn't that I doubt you or your statements directly, but whose
word are we ultimately taking for granted - an agency whose
first order of operations is to deceive potential enemies?
On the other hand, as you point out, these spy sats are basically
Hubbles turned on the Earth. Perhaps one of those big honking
mirrors is what made the crater in Peru.
And if the meteorite actually was a chondrite (?), as claimed, what
would cause the symptoms of illness among those who visit
the crater? Andromeda Strain viruses? Primative amino acids,
proteins or hydrocarbons?
Cheers,
Larry G.
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Date: 21 Sep 2007 08:11:29
From: Chris L Peterson
Subject: Re: ASTRO: So is anyone else getting sick?
|
On Thu, 20 Sep 2007 23:51:01 -0700, LarryG <larryg_uu@yahoo.com > wrote:
>I have never understood how supposedly classified information
>ends up being publicly accessible knowledge. Books such as
>Jane's Ships/Planes/Weapons would seem to infringe on many
>military secrets.
So it would seem. In part, it comes down to the fact that so many people
are involved in these things, and there are so many places for
information to slip. The ability to keep a secret drops exponentially
with the number of people who know it. Then there's the fact that not
everything is classified. In the case of the KH series satellites, I
know somebody here in Colorado personally who is involved in producing
the high efficiency GAs solar panels for them. This technology itself
isn't classified. There are all sorts of subsystems and components that
are not classified, and a clever person can no doubt put together a
pretty good idea of just what you get when everything is assembled.
>So how are we to conclude that what is claimed to be the most
>advanced American spy satellites are what we are told they are?
No doubt there is deliberate misinformation published, and not all the
facts in Jane's or elsewhere are correct. But military technology is
derived from scientific knowledge, and nothing there is secret. All the
money in the world can't allow an instrument to get around the limits of
natural law. So just the knowledge of a few things- mirror diameter,
available surface area, detector technology, signal processing
technology- is enough that a pretty accurate assessment of capability
can be made. Add to that that many images have been released, and some
practical assessment is possible as well.
>And if the meteorite actually was a chondrite (?), as claimed, what
>would cause the symptoms of illness among those who visit
>the crater? Andromeda Strain viruses? Primative amino acids,
>proteins or hydrocarbons?
It remains to be seen if this really was a meteorite. The apparent
coincidence of the crater forming event with an observed fireball is the
best evidence- far better than the preliminary reports of Peruvian
geologists (I know with certainty that very few geologists- or
astronomers- are competent to identify a meteorite). If the object is
meteoritic, I think it is much more likely to be an iron than a
chondrite. And there is certainly nothing in a meteorite fall to make
people sick. Either there was something toxic already in the ground, or
the sickness is hysterical.
_________________________________________________
Chris L Peterson
Cloudbait Observatory
http://www.cloudbait.com
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Date: 20 Sep 2007 22:02:33
From: LarryG
Subject: Re: ASTRO: So is anyone else getting sick?
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On Sep 20, 10:19 am, josephus <dogb...@earthlink.net > wrote:
> LarryG wrote:
> > On Sep 20, 9:10 am, Chris L Peterson <c...@alumni.caltech.edu> wrote:
>
> >>On Thu, 20 Sep 2007 23:55:38 +1000, "Al"
>
> >><tech...@mytongueinmycheekihug.com.au> wrote:
>
> >>>"an object from space - said to be a meteorite - plummeted to Earth
> >>>in a remote area"
>
> >>>A question: if an object from space plummets to Earth isn't it by
> >>>definition a meteorite?
>
> >>Not if it's re-entering space debris. Or an alien spacecraft <g>.
>
> >>_________________________________________________
>
> >>Chris L Peterson
> >>Cloudbait Observatoryhttp://www.cloudbait.com
>
> > There is some indication that the "meteorite" is/was indeed a downed
> > satellite.
>
> > ref:http://www.whatdoesitmean.com/index1034.htm
>
> > The article's source is not entirely reliable in reaching
> > conclusions,
> > however they do provide some links to more accurate reporting.
> > Of interest are the symptoms, which some link to radiation
> > poisoning - nausea, headaches, etc. But even if radiation is not
> > the cause, spacecraft propellant, such as is used in the steering
> > thrusters of the Space Shuttle, is said to be highly toxic.
>
> > And then there is the matter of the timing between the 6 nuclear
> > (cruise ?) missiles flown across the United States by "mistake".
> > Having been in the American military, I find it exceedingly unlikely
> > that there was any "mistake" of this magnitude ever committed
> > involving nuclear weapons.
>
> > While I find it hard to believe that forces within the military are
> > secretly warring with the Bush administration or other government
> > agencies, as the article suggests, I do find the timing, the politics,
> > the mistakes and the illnesses a bit more than coincidental.
>
> > Cheers,
> > Larry G.
>
> The source is a rag for conspiracy buffs. they are interested in the
> END OF THE WORLD. ok but I would not put that site int my bookmark
> because it would pollute it.
And this implies what, exactly? That every reference link that it
posts is
also now suspect because some conspiracy site points to it?
That is not exactly sound or rational thinking, but is unfortunately
common
in many newsgroups, even SAA. (For those with genuine intellectual
curiosity,
this sort of thinking error is called "association fallacy" or "guilt
by association".
See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Association_fallacy )
Why do you protect your Favorites (bookmarks) list, when your own
thinking
is apparently already muddled?
Cheers,
Larry G.
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Date: 20 Sep 2007 21:54:45
From: LarryG
Subject: Re: ASTRO: So is anyone else getting sick?
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On Sep 20, 10:33 am, Greg Crinklaw <theskyhoundyour...@yahoo.com >
wrote:
> LarryG wrote:
> > There is some indication that the "meteorite" is/was indeed a downed
> > satellite.
>
> > ref:http://www.whatdoesitmean.com/index1034.htm
>
> > The article's source is not entirely reliable in reaching
> > conclusions, however they do provide some links to more accurate
> > reporting. Of interest are the symptoms, which some link to radiation
> > poisoning - nausea, headaches, etc. But even if radiation is not
> > the cause, spacecraft propellant, such as is used in the steering
> > thrusters of the Space Shuttle, is said to be highly toxic.
>
> Utter nonsense (doubly). Satellites don't make large single holes in
> the ground when they de-orbit. Rather, they produce a debris field as
> they break up. Even if there were some very large and heavy component
> that caused the hole, there would also be scattered debris. And science
> fiction aside, satellites don't generally carry radioactive materials on
> board. Even if this were a secret weapons satellite, do you really
> think nobody would show up to clean up their little mess?
Nuclear power for spy satellites makes a lot of sense. Solar panels
not only help give away a satellites position, but they increase the
vehicle's vulnerability to attack and meteor impacts. Fuel cells are
good only for a few months to a year, depending on how much fuel
could be put onboard. Nuclear power has been on Russian spy sats
for decades. I'm not sure that the Americans have ignored its
advantages, but I would bet that they would never advertise such
designs.
And having a smaller footprint, the vehicle might be ruggedized to
survive reentry and keep the dangerous components more or less
localized, if not in tact. Warheads on nuclear missiles are designed
with just objectives in mind. Again, that technology is decades old.
And how does one go about cleaning up such a mess, without
drawing attention to the crash site? Wear camouflage haz-mat
suit? Pretend to be shooting an episode of Nova? Or perhaps
send in a crew disguised as scientists from a nearby University.
>
> Finally, a team of scientists from a Peruvian university reported that
> this was a Chondrite.
Sure. Got links?
Cheers,
Larry G.
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Date: 21 Sep 2007 04:32:15
From: josephus
Subject: Re: ASTRO: So is anyone else getting sick?
|
LarryG wrote:
> On Sep 20, 10:33 am, Greg Crinklaw <theskyhoundyour...@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
>>LarryG wrote:
>>
>>>There is some indication that the "meteorite" is/was indeed a downed
>>>satellite.
>>
>>>ref:http://www.whatdoesitmean.com/index1034.htm
>>
>>>The article's source is not entirely reliable in reaching
>>>conclusions, however they do provide some links to more accurate
>>>reporting. Of interest are the symptoms, which some link to radiation
>>> poisoning - nausea, headaches, etc. But even if radiation is not
>>>the cause, spacecraft propellant, such as is used in the steering
>>>thrusters of the Space Shuttle, is said to be highly toxic.
>>
>>Utter nonsense (doubly). Satellites don't make large single holes in
>>the ground when they de-orbit. Rather, they produce a debris field as
>>they break up. Even if there were some very large and heavy component
>>that caused the hole, there would also be scattered debris. And science
>>fiction aside, satellites don't generally carry radioactive materials on
>>board. Even if this were a secret weapons satellite, do you really
>>think nobody would show up to clean up their little mess?
>
>
> Nuclear power for spy satellites makes a lot of sense. Solar panels
> not only help give away a satellites position, but they increase the
> vehicle's vulnerability to attack and meteor impacts. Fuel cells are
> good only for a few months to a year, depending on how much fuel
> could be put onboard. Nuclear power has been on Russian spy sats
> for decades. I'm not sure that the Americans have ignored its
> advantages, but I would bet that they would never advertise such
> designs.
>
>
> And having a smaller footprint, the vehicle might be ruggedized to
> survive reentry and keep the dangerous components more or less
> localized, if not in tact. Warheads on nuclear missiles are designed
> with just objectives in mind. Again, that technology is decades old.
>
> And how does one go about cleaning up such a mess, without
> drawing attention to the crash site? Wear camouflage haz-mat
> suit? Pretend to be shooting an episode of Nova? Or perhaps
> send in a crew disguised as scientists from a nearby University.
>
>
>>Finally, a team of scientists from a Peruvian university reported that
>>this was a Chondrite.
>
most of what you say is true but there is a problem with it. a dense
nuclear satelite will not explode on impact and there is no incicatio of
any foreign object in the pool. it could be a small pond. in a area
where the water table is down about 2 feet. It is next best thing to a
swamp.
I point out that to make such a hole a stone will eject much more than
the little bit we see. it does not look like an explosion due to an
impact at all try throwing a large stone into wet sand. It does not
resemble this pot hole at all. Even dynamite will scatter more stuff.
>
>
> Sure. Got links?
>
> Cheers,
> Larry G.
>
>
josephus
--
I go sailing in the Summer and
look at STARS in the Winter.
"Everybody is igernant, jist on differt subjects"
Will Rogers Jr.
"it aint what you know that gets you in trouble
it is what you know that aint so"
Josh Billings.
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Date: 21 Sep 2007 00:00:50
From: Chris L Peterson
Subject: Re: ASTRO: So is anyone else getting sick?
|
On Thu, 20 Sep 2007 21:54:45 -0700, LarryG <larryg_uu@yahoo.com > wrote:
>Nuclear power for spy satellites makes a lot of sense. Solar panels
>not only help give away a satellites position, but they increase the
>vehicle's vulnerability to attack and meteor impacts.
Your logic is fine, but in fact the best spy satellites are pretty
obvious because of their necessary large size (they are basically Hubble
telescopes). It is well established that the most advanced American spy
satellites use high efficiency solar panels that hug the cylindrical
telescope bodies.
That's not to say that there aren't some objects in low orbits (decay
candidates) that aren't using RTG power sources, of course. In all
likelihood American RTGs would survive reentry intact, but that may not
be the case for other country's devices.
_________________________________________________
Chris L Peterson
Cloudbait Observatory
http://www.cloudbait.com
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Date: 20 Sep 2007 23:36:10
From: Greg Crinklaw
Subject: Re: ASTRO: So is anyone else getting sick?
|
LarryG wrote:
> And how does one go about cleaning up such a mess, without
> drawing attention to the crash site? Wear camouflage haz-mat
> suit? Pretend to be shooting an episode of Nova? Or perhaps
> send in a crew disguised as scientists from a nearby University.
>
>> Finally, a team of scientists from a Peruvian university reported that
>> this was a Chondrite.
Take a glass of water. Add some mud and feces. Stir it up.
Unfortunately, if I toss any facts or logic in the glass, they will
merely sink to the bottom unnoticed. Worse yet, I might get splashed in
the face with crap! So as much as I'd like to, I doubt there would be
any point to it.
--
Greg Crinklaw
Astronomical Software Developer
Cloudcroft, New Mexico, USA (33N, 106W, 2700m)
SkyTools: http://www.skyhound.com/cs.html
Observing: http://www.skyhound.com/sh/skyhound.html
Comets: http://comets.skyhound.com
To reply take out your eye
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Date: 20 Sep 2007 20:24:24
From: opapiloot
Subject: Re: ASTRO: So is anyone else getting sick?
|
G wrote:
>
> lol
> Just saw this...
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/7001897.stm
LOL? You have a strange sense of humor. I hope you never learn the hard
way that meteorites can be harmful.
Bert
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Date: 20 Sep 2007 07:48:15
From: LarryG
Subject: Re: ASTRO: So is anyone else getting sick?
|
On Sep 20, 9:10 am, Chris L Peterson <c...@alumni.caltech.edu > wrote:
> On Thu, 20 Sep 2007 23:55:38 +1000, "Al"
>
> <tech...@mytongueinmycheekihug.com.au> wrote:
> > "an object from space - said to be a meteorite - plummeted to Earth
> >in a remote area"
>
> >A question: if an object from space plummets to Earth isn't it by
> >definition a meteorite?
>
> Not if it's re-entering space debris. Or an alien spacecraft <g>.
>
> _________________________________________________
>
> Chris L Peterson
> Cloudbait Observatoryhttp://www.cloudbait.com
There is some indication that the "meteorite" is/was indeed a downed
satellite.
ref: http://www.whatdoesitmean.com/index1034.htm
The article's source is not entirely reliable in reaching
conclusions,
however they do provide some links to more accurate reporting.
Of interest are the symptoms, which some link to radiation
poisoning - nausea, headaches, etc. But even if radiation is not
the cause, spacecraft propellant, such as is used in the steering
thrusters of the Space Shuttle, is said to be highly toxic.
And then there is the matter of the timing between the 6 nuclear
(cruise ?) missiles flown across the United States by "mistake".
Having been in the American military, I find it exceedingly unlikely
that there was any "mistake" of this magnitude ever committed
involving nuclear weapons.
While I find it hard to believe that forces within the military are
secretly warring with the Bush administration or other government
agencies, as the article suggests, I do find the timing, the politics,
the mistakes and the illnesses a bit more than coincidental.
Cheers,
Larry G.
|
| | |
Date: 20 Sep 2007 09:33:59
From: Greg Crinklaw
Subject: Re: ASTRO: So is anyone else getting sick?
|
LarryG wrote:
> There is some indication that the "meteorite" is/was indeed a downed
> satellite.
>
> ref: http://www.whatdoesitmean.com/index1034.htm
>
> The article's source is not entirely reliable in reaching
> conclusions, however they do provide some links to more accurate
> reporting. Of interest are the symptoms, which some link to radiation
> poisoning - nausea, headaches, etc. But even if radiation is not
> the cause, spacecraft propellant, such as is used in the steering
> thrusters of the Space Shuttle, is said to be highly toxic.
Utter nonsense (doubly). Satellites don't make large single holes in
the ground when they de-orbit. Rather, they produce a debris field as
they break up. Even if there were some very large and heavy component
that caused the hole, there would also be scattered debris. And science
fiction aside, satellites don't generally carry radioactive materials on
board. Even if this were a secret weapons satellite, do you really
think nobody would show up to clean up their little mess?
Finally, a team of scientists from a Peruvian university reported that
this was a Chondrite.
--
Greg Crinklaw
Astronomical Software Developer
Cloudcroft, New Mexico, USA (33N, 106W, 2700m)
SkyTools: http://www.skyhound.com/cs.html
Observing: http://www.skyhound.com/sh/skyhound.html
Comets: http://comets.skyhound.com
To reply take out your eye
|
| | |
Date: 20 Sep 2007 10:19:28
From: josephus
Subject: Re: ASTRO: So is anyone else getting sick?
|
LarryG wrote:
> On Sep 20, 9:10 am, Chris L Peterson <c...@alumni.caltech.edu> wrote:
>
>>On Thu, 20 Sep 2007 23:55:38 +1000, "Al"
>>
>><tech...@mytongueinmycheekihug.com.au> wrote:
>>
>>>"an object from space - said to be a meteorite - plummeted to Earth
>>>in a remote area"
>>
>>>A question: if an object from space plummets to Earth isn't it by
>>>definition a meteorite?
>>
>>Not if it's re-entering space debris. Or an alien spacecraft <g>.
>>
>>_________________________________________________
>>
>>Chris L Peterson
>>Cloudbait Observatoryhttp://www.cloudbait.com
>
>
> There is some indication that the "meteorite" is/was indeed a downed
> satellite.
>
> ref: http://www.whatdoesitmean.com/index1034.htm
>
> The article's source is not entirely reliable in reaching
> conclusions,
> however they do provide some links to more accurate reporting.
> Of interest are the symptoms, which some link to radiation
> poisoning - nausea, headaches, etc. But even if radiation is not
> the cause, spacecraft propellant, such as is used in the steering
> thrusters of the Space Shuttle, is said to be highly toxic.
>
> And then there is the matter of the timing between the 6 nuclear
> (cruise ?) missiles flown across the United States by "mistake".
> Having been in the American military, I find it exceedingly unlikely
> that there was any "mistake" of this magnitude ever committed
> involving nuclear weapons.
>
> While I find it hard to believe that forces within the military are
> secretly warring with the Bush administration or other government
> agencies, as the article suggests, I do find the timing, the politics,
> the mistakes and the illnesses a bit more than coincidental.
>
> Cheers,
> Larry G.
>
The source is a rag for conspiracy buffs. they are interested in the
END OF THE WORLD. ok but I would not put that site int my bookmark
because it would pollute it.
josephus
--
I go sailing in the Summer and
look at STARS in the Winter.
"Everybody is igernant, jist on differt subjects"
Will Rogers Jr.
"it aint what you know that gets you in trouble
it is what you know that aint so"
Josh Billings.
|
| |
Date: 20 Sep 2007 23:55:38
From: Al
Subject: Re: ASTRO: So is anyone else getting sick?
|
"G" <your@smart.net > wrote in message
news:13f3pvh7m2bo012@news.supernews.com...
|
| | |
Date: 20 Sep 2007 08:10:47
From: Chris L Peterson
Subject: Re: ASTRO: So is anyone else getting sick?
|
On Thu, 20 Sep 2007 23:55:38 +1000, "Al"
<techman@mytongueinmycheekihug.com.au > wrote:
> "an object from space - said to be a meteorite - plummeted to Earth
>in a remote area"
>
>A question: if an object from space plummets to Earth isn't it by
>definition a meteorite?
Not if it's re-entering space debris. Or an alien spacecraft <g >.
_________________________________________________
Chris L Peterson
Cloudbait Observatory
http://www.cloudbait.com
|
|
